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This might be an unpopular opinion

akbays35
akbays35 Member Posts: 1,123
in General Discussions

But I think Legion is ok and probably right where the devs wanted him to be at.

Comments

  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @akbays35 said:
    But I think Legion is ok and probably right where the devs wanted him to be at.

    I know right,-francis l4d

  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @Avariku said:
    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

  • Dr_doom_j2
    Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869
    A killer designed to basically tunnel well is not "where the devs want it to be" but he is a killer that is fun to annoy people with. He's a RQ machine
  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @se05239 said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:
    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    Please provide examples on how YOU think people should play Legion.

    Like I told orion,"okay, legion is a killer that is strong against big groups of survivors, ruin is a powerful perk on legion so that will help, when you land a hit with legion and no other survivor is nearby, try to hit them again or go in front of them to block off there path to take them down, with legions ability to vault pallets you can apply great pressure inside of the chase, blood hound is another powerful perk with legion with the inability to see scratch marks when inside off feral frenzy, allowing you to track survivors inside of the feral frenzy easily, STBFL is amazing on them due to multi hit capability, 4 perk can be anything but bbq due to poor movement speed"

  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:
    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    well its true, its not an excuse, you need to play legion properly to literally play them

  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:
    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /\... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...
  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @Bravo0413 said:
    Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

     @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...

    breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,817

    @se05239 said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:
    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    Please provide examples on how YOU think people should play Legion.

    From what I've watched of good Legion players in red ranks, its a matter of prioritizing pressure over tunneling, spreading deep wounds as much as possible to prevent progress, and then punishing survivors who get sloppy under said pressure?

    Biggest mistake I see are Legions focusing on tunneling down a single survivor. Their power is designed specifically to discourage that, yet people still try to do it and then complain they feel weak when they get rushed for ignoring most of the map. Its also part of why people hate playing against them, since there is no counterplay to that level of tunneling for the person being chased: all you can do is waste as much time as possible so your team can secure gens.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,817
    edited December 2018

    @ReneAensland said:
    What's the point of knowing where anyone is when his Frenzy runs out in seconds.

    Survivors can't work on gens while they are bleeding out. If they have to continuously mend and scatter, they are not working on gens during that time. The alternative is Legion rubber banding off of a single survivor while the other 3 survivors whistle a tune and take out 2-3 gens in the time it takes for that one person to get inevitably downed.

    As a bonus, it becomes incredibly inefficient to heal this way, keeping the survivors nice and noisy and bleeding if they want to get any progress done on the gens. And even then, they're just a heartbeat and a red spot from going right back into deep wounds and having wasted all that progress.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,590

    He's right where the devs wanted him that's true...in the trash. He's legit worse than Freddy, that's how trash he is. He's only good against idiots or rank 20's.

  • TheMidnightRidr
    TheMidnightRidr Member Posts: 599
    He’s my favorite. A little weak, but my favorite. Already fully prestiged him :)
  • Speshul_Kitten
    Speshul_Kitten Member Posts: 1,861
    Legion is bae

  • Caretaker
    Caretaker Member Posts: 764

    He doesn't have the duration to deal with how big these maps are. You say spread pain, but at the same time people just spread and rush your gens anyway. So you're forced to tunnel. People don't tunnel/camp because he's strong.

  • PhantomMask20763
    PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 5,176
    Speshul_Kitten said:
    Legion is bae

    Are we sure that's Legion? All I see is a red blob 
  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said:
    Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

     @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...

    breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 
  • akbays35
    akbays35 Member Posts: 1,123

    One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.

  • CallMeRusty420
    CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    I respect your opinion my man. I may disagree with it but I can still respect it.

  • Caretaker
    Caretaker Member Posts: 764

    @Bravo0413 said:
    alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

    Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.



they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right



I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...

    breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 

    There's plenty of counterplay, people are just lazy and don't want to figure it out. They also act like DW is the end all be all. You can still avoid Legion.> @akbays35 said:

    One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.

    He counters none of those, what? We'll Make It is still strong, Adren is still meta especially against him. You can technically SC, but why bother he can't down you with his power. BK is the only thing that really doesn't matter.

  • MyNamePete
    MyNamePete Member Posts: 1,053

    yeah he's a pretty good job so far.

  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:
    alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

    Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.



they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right



I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...

    breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 

    There's plenty of counterplay, people are just lazy and don't want to figure it out. They also act like DW is the end all be all. You can still avoid Legion.> @akbays35 said:

    One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.

    He counters none of those, what? We'll Make It is still strong, Adren is still meta especially against him. You can technically SC, but why bother he can't down you with his power. BK is the only thing that really doesn't matter.

    Oh okay theres a counter to the great cheese that is chase but not in chase... please tell me!! What is the counter to this horrible design?
  • Caretaker
    Caretaker Member Posts: 764

    @Bravo0413 said:
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

    alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe. they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...



breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 

    There's plenty of counterplay, people are just lazy and don't want to figure it out. They also act like DW is the end all be all. You can still avoid Legion.> @akbays35 said:

    One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.

    He counters none of those, what? We'll Make It is still strong, Adren is still meta especially against him. You can technically SC, but why bother he can't down you with his power. BK is the only thing that really doesn't matter.

    Oh okay theres a counter to the great cheese that is chase but not in chase... please tell me!! What is the counter to this horrible design?

    It's this crazy thing called, stealth. LOS. Etc.

  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

    alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe. they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part...



breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 

    There's plenty of counterplay, people are just lazy and don't want to figure it out. They also act like DW is the end all be all. You can still avoid Legion.> @akbays35 said:

    One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.

    He counters none of those, what? We'll Make It is still strong, Adren is still meta especially against him. You can technically SC, but why bother he can't down you with his power. BK is the only thing that really doesn't matter.

    Oh okay theres a counter to the great cheese that is chase but not in chase... please tell me!! What is the counter to this horrible design?

    It's this crazy thing called, stealth. LOS. Etc.

    Oooh stealth yeah... the only thing is with the cheese the leagion isnt really gonna be wanting to look at you anyways... their going to be looking at the ground and watching the blood as the bar tics down..... "forehead" 
  • Dustbin
    Dustbin Member Posts: 6
    edited December 2018

    A killer who just removes gameplay elements and simplifies the game massively for both sides is not good for the game. Who cares if they're good or bad, they're very boring to play against and even more thoughtless to play than a powerless M1 killer.

  • Broosmeister
    Broosmeister Member Posts: 281
    Legion isn't a bad killer. But he's annoying and no fun to play against. Whenever i play vs legion i just want to leave. Not in the mood to spend 80% of the game mending & healing.
  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Ryuhi said:

    @se05239 said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:
    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.

    they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right

    Please provide examples on how YOU think people should play Legion.

    From what I've watched of good Legion players in red ranks, its a matter of prioritizing pressure over tunneling, spreading deep wounds as much as possible to prevent progress, and then punishing survivors who get sloppy under said pressure?

    Biggest mistake I see are Legions focusing on tunneling down a single survivor. Their power is designed specifically to discourage that, yet people still try to do it and then complain they feel weak when they get rushed for ignoring most of the map. Its also part of why people hate playing against them, since there is no counterplay to that level of tunneling for the person being chased: all you can do is waste as much time as possible so your team can secure gens.

    I made this mistake and posted how I get people don't like him and even admitted I played him wrong lol but u learn and one is if they keep doing zig zag 360 to avoid power don't use and normal slug them and check the hooks to many times they rush a hook so you can't get to the gens is a nusance
  • Caretaker
    Caretaker Member Posts: 764

    @Bravo0413 said:
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said: Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.        they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right        I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part... breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 



There's plenty of counterplay, people are just lazy and don't want to figure it out. They also act like DW is the end all be all. You can still avoid Legion.> @akbays35 said:

One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.



He counters none of those, what? We'll Make It is still strong, Adren is still meta especially against him. You can technically SC, but why bother he can't down you with his power. BK is the only thing that really doesn't matter.

    Oh okay theres a counter to the great cheese that is chase but not in chase... please tell me!! What is the counter to this horrible design?

    It's this crazy thing called, stealth. LOS. Etc.

    Oooh stealth yeah... the only thing is with the cheese the leagion isnt really gonna be wanting to look at you anyways... their going to be looking at the ground and watching the blood as the bar tics down..... "forehead" 

    I've lost plenty of Legions, even ones trying that strat. Also, you get caught that's on you.

  • Caretaker
    Caretaker Member Posts: 764

    @Broosmeister said:
    Legion isn't a bad killer. But he's annoying and no fun to play against. Whenever i play vs legion i just want to leave. Not in the mood to spend 80% of the game mending & healing.

    No, he's a bad killer. If he wasn't you wouldn't waste the game mending/healing. Also, you don't heal against a Legion.

  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:
    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

    Caretaker said:

    @Bravo0413 said:

alivebydeadight said:

    @Bravo0413 said: Caretaker said:

    @alivebydeadight said:

    @Avariku said:

    I don't know about "right where the devs wanted him" as even they have admitted he needs some tweaks, but he's definitely not as bad as some would have us believe.        they are a good killer, but people just cannot seem to play them right        I hate this excuse so much. I legit hate this. Legion is a bad killer. Plain and simple. He doesn't even follow his own lore. Constantly saying people just don't know how to play him excuses poor designs, and just lets the devs ignore issues with killers.

    So much this /... the legion is horribly designed.... when you can get a free hit (prettymuch) and then cheese a chase to get someone down that is horrible on the devs part... breaths in free hit yet you can 360 them still and mind game them still, yes totally a free hit

    Again with this 360... if the killer uses frenzy it doesn't matter there is no outplay.... no cooldown on missed attacks nothin, along with after hitting and triggering deep wounds you can cheese the chase by simply not looking at the survivor.... just follow the blood and wait for the survivor to drop... it is horrible and unfun design and something of the sort shouldnt be possible in the game and if it is it should be a border line punish if chosen to do... 



There's plenty of counterplay, people are just lazy and don't want to figure it out. They also act like DW is the end all be all. You can still avoid Legion.> @akbays35 said:

One of the good things about Legion is how he counters strong healing survivor perks and most exhaustion perks. Survivors really only have the option to gen rush.



He counters none of those, what? We'll Make It is still strong, Adren is still meta especially against him. You can technically SC, but why bother he can't down you with his power. BK is the only thing that really doesn't matter.

    Oh okay theres a counter to the great cheese that is chase but not in chase... please tell me!! What is the counter to this horrible design?

    It's this crazy thing called, stealth. LOS. Etc.

    Oooh stealth yeah... the only thing is with the cheese the leagion isnt really gonna be wanting to look at you anyways... their going to be looking at the ground and watching the blood as the bar tics down..... "forehead" 

    I've lost plenty of Legions, even ones trying that strat. Also, you get caught that's on you.

    I wanna get caught... I wanna interact and have fun in a chase with the killer..... the legion takes all of that away because it's prettymuch a free hit and theres the cheese which it's hard to mess up as the killer considering after the 2nd hit when DE is active you only have to follow maybe 15 seconds? If anyone loses someone as the legion when performing the cheese that's bad because its certainly not hard to follow scratch marks and blood.. 
  • akbays35
    akbays35 Member Posts: 1,123
    edited December 2018

    @Caretaker said:

    @Broosmeister said:
    Legion isn't a bad killer. But he's annoying and no fun to play against. Whenever i play vs legion i just want to leave. Not in the mood to spend 80% of the game mending & healing.

    No, he's a bad killer. If he wasn't you wouldn't waste the game mending/healing. Also, you don't heal against a Legion.

    That is actually a misconception, you should heal if you get the opportunity. If you stay wounded they can just focus you down or slug and hey it's free bloodpoints unless he has sloppy butcher. I usually grab Resilience just to counter him either way.

  • Caretaker
    Caretaker Member Posts: 764

    @akbays35 said:

    @Caretaker said:

    @Broosmeister said:
    Legion isn't a bad killer. But he's annoying and no fun to play against. Whenever i play vs legion i just want to leave. Not in the mood to spend 80% of the game mending & healing.

    No, he's a bad killer. If he wasn't you wouldn't waste the game mending/healing. Also, you don't heal against a Legion.

    That is actually a misconception, you should heal if you get the opportunity. If you stay wounded they can just focus you down or slug and hey it's free bloodpoints unless he has sloppy butcher. I usually grab Resilience just to counter him either way.

    Adrenaline works fine. Gens will be done in 3m anyway.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,817

    @akbays35 said:

    @Caretaker said:

    @Broosmeister said:
    Legion isn't a bad killer. But he's annoying and no fun to play against. Whenever i play vs legion i just want to leave. Not in the mood to spend 80% of the game mending & healing.

    No, he's a bad killer. If he wasn't you wouldn't waste the game mending/healing. Also, you don't heal against a Legion.

    That is actually a misconception, you should heal if you get the opportunity. If you stay wounded they can just focus you down or slug and hey it's free bloodpoints unless he has sloppy butcher. I usually grab Resilience just to counter him either way.

    Whether to heal or not vs legion is very situational. If you have dead hard and know how to do even a basic loop, you should not be healing against them unless you have zero defenses near the gen you're working on. Healing time can be used to work on gens, and the legion's main weakness is gen rushing. I know technically all killers are weak to gen rushing, but legion's strength is in not losing people through chases, so if they tunnel someone that person WILL go down eventually.

    That said, the person being chased simply needs to waste as much of legion's time as possible. Due to the 110% movement speed, legions going for the M1 can be looped very easily, forcing them to frenzy and apply deep wounds. That extends the chase considerably, giving your teammates more time to (hopefully) work on gens.

    This is why the smart way to play legion is to use people for information gathering. the second you apply deep wounds, you should be spinning around looking for heartbeat notifications. If you don't get any, go back after the person you hit (don't worry, you'll catch up to them.) Otherwise, you should be breaking up nearby survivors and forcing them to waste time mending and/or healing.

    Going back to the original point, if you are bad at looping and/or have zero defenses nearby, you should absolutely heal vs legion. 110% isnt super fast, but its still faster than you. If you don't have anything to expand the gap, you will get caught with an m1 eventually.