Why were moris gutted for being toxic, but keys are unchanged?

Make keys useable by the holder only. You could effectively contribute nothing to a game an escape with someone else's key.

He talked about the new moris and i quote here:

"We´re also looking at revisting how moris are triggered in the game by Killers. We´ve been listening to the fans and seeing the effects that they can have in the game and despite the recent changes to Mori Offerings, we feel that there is a less toxic way that we can approach this element of the game and thats something that we are going to be working on in the future."

Timestamp 1:35:46

They still see Moris as toxic, despite the recent nerf.

Well it wouldnt matter for a killer if only one person can use it really, When im killing nothing is worse then busting your butt for multiple hooks getting down to end game and being cheated out of "winning"

Much how survivors were cheated out of living by Mori after 1 hook.

Getting moried 30 seconds into the match is only possible if the victim is afk and someone is standing at the ready to farm them two times. 30 seconds is the chase time of an afk survivor lol

"Other posts don't matter" Lmao, I guess, since this is a killer main forum, you could be right here.

But the truth is that that's not the reason, or not the only reason. Of course, there is the fact that survivor needs to stay attractive, because we simply need 4 times as many survivor players as killer players for queue times to be short on both sides.

But I am sure there are other reasons as to why keys aren't nerfed yet. And it's not BHVR only caring for survivor players.

Keys are items, they are supposed to help survivors, Moris are just offerings. I'm sure there isn't a fix for keys as simple as Moris, unless you make them useless. Or the problem is that BHVR has plans regarding keys, but are sadly as to be expected, very slow with these changes. And they don't want to spend time for a faster fix to keys. Who knows.

Oh boo hoo get over it it’s a ######### game you play to have fun.

Ok sure, there is no point explaining you if you just don't want to understand.

And ? You could be a total potato and do nothing all game as still escape with someone else's key.

I at least have to work for 2 hooks, unless they are just afk.

And yet, if one or more of those 4 players disconnects the game continues. If that 1 player disconnects, the entire match is canceled.

Isn't the whole thread about comparison?

Or are you just being obtuse at this stage?

Once again the killer dominated forums find something else to whine about.

Keys have been nerfed, even recently and are only useful when hatch ACTUALLY APPEARS.

And to compare keys with a mori which do completely different things just looks like desperation to begin with.

Build a bridge, move on.

Moris and Keys changed a bit over the years.

In the VERY old closed beta days, IIRC the hatch actually spawned shut at match start, meaning a team could escape through the hatch at 5 gens left with a key.

Moris had no hook requirement whatsoever. Down and dead. I kinda miss the extreme anxiety when the second survivor gets downed and you don't know if a mori was kill 1 survivor or all survivors.

The Brand New Part was literal insta-gen. 4 survivors with BNP's = 4 gens done right away.

I do want keys changed a bit, but I also want Mori's added as a base-kit mechanic similar to Pyramid Head that can be done on death hook if certain conditions are met (I.E. a fully charged Huntress Hatchet hits them in the head at long range while they're injured and on death hook, they're in madness 3 and downed on death hook as doctor, they're fully drained of evil as Myers and they're downed on death hook, etc.), or they are the last survivor. (Mori offerings can stay as a way to trigger the mori on death hook regardless if you've met the special conditions.)

This discussion has happened time and time again lol.

The issue with old Moris was that there was absolutely nothing stopping the Killer from coming straight back to you after you got unhooked and just deleting you from the game. Meaning that if you got caught in a dead zone due to poor RNG at the start of the game, that 4v1 was pretty much instantly made into a 3v1. (This also isn't including insta-down Killers/Add-Ons, or perks like Haunted Grounds- which the Moris were normally paired with.) Sure, you could try to outrun the Killer- but again, many would run the best Add-Ons with Moris, and again, it didn't stop the fact that as soon as you were downed, that was it. At least with Camping/Tunneling, despite how crappy it is to verse, you have more chances to give your team more time for gens. It felt awful to play against, and personally? It didn't really feel all that fulfilling to play.

Imho, base keys are totally fine. I'm personally not a fan of the idea that 'Anything under a 4k isn't a win' mentality, and the game being unwinnable for Survivor in many cases where the key genuinely is an issue for escape I think kinda justifies it being how it is. (Granted, I don't think keys are an 'Instant Win' button as some like to call it, since I don't think an escape should always be considered a win for Survivor, so...) Idk, I think it makes sense due to the snowball-y nature of the game. (Something that genuinely goes both ways.) At least with Keys, you have to do more of your objective to use them then you had to with old Moris. (And, again- if someone escapes via hatch at 5 gens with a key after it was closed, I can't consider that a loss. They had 5 gens left, and if you really wanted to, you could slug for a 4k.)

Imho, the issues with keys more so just come from the add-ons and the ability to do last-minute swaps. (Everyone likes to talk about how keys are a 'Free Win' because you escape a match, but like... Blood Amber exists. That add-on is disgusting and seemingly no one talks about it.) I think if those things were changed, they wouldn't be as bad to face. (Because, honestly, I think them being found in chests is fine due to their low drop rate, and the fact that the perks to increase those drop rates take slots away from other perks that are a lot harsher to verse, while also being more consistent, such as... well, the entire meta. And, granted, people would probably still complain about the Survivor's ability to escape with it, but I think that's always going to be something that the fairness of is going to be argued until we get clear win conditions.)

It's not counterplay if it never works.

If you are going to suggest counterplay atleast suggest the right one.

Mass slugging counters keys. The hatch can't spawn before gens are done if all survivors are alive. Keys also can't be used while on the ground. So keeping them slugged keeps the hatch from spawning while it stops them from progressing the game.

The problem with keys isn't how strong they are. It's how mindblowingly boring they are. They usually become active when the game starts to swing in the killers favour and just stops the match.

It's like in monopoly somebody stopping midgame and giving all their money and assets to another player. The killer is on boring cleanup duty as the other survivors don't stand a chance anymore

That's the problem. That when a survivor uses a key the game just is over for the rest of the players. It's litterally legal DCing

Is it counterplay if it never works in your favor?

Hatch offerings are a thing and you can litterally tell where the hatch is before it spawns if you know what to look for. Drop the key there and Franklins does nothing.

Also keys where updated to work again with Franklin's not the other way around

 If you start getting matched with players using No Mither, Unbreakable, or Soul Guard, then does that suddenly nullify mass slugging?

Yes?? If people are running soul guard and you have a hex up slugging is off the table. Really don't know what you are even trying to say here other then you having serious flawed logic

And how fun are survivors suiciding or getting camped/tunneled games? Comparing it to those events just further proves my point why keys are bad