http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why were moris gutted for being toxic, but keys are unchanged?
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Make keys useable by the holder only. You could effectively contribute nothing to a game an escape with someone else's key.
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They said they wanted to move away from the perception of moris being a toxic part of the game, and turn them into something seen as a more natural progression of the trial. There very well might be devs who view them as toxic, but they were clearly referencing this community's view with that statement.
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He talked about the new moris and i quote here:
"We´re also looking at revisting how moris are triggered in the game by Killers. We´ve been listening to the fans and seeing the effects that they can have in the game and despite the recent changes to Mori Offerings, we feel that there is a less toxic way that we can approach this element of the game and thats something that we are going to be working on in the future."
Timestamp 1:35:46
They still see Moris as toxic, despite the recent nerf.
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Only you need all 5 players to be satisfied because there wouldn't be a game without a killer...
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Moris were just a number change, whereas keys are going to be a full rework.
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Because a Mori ends the game for an unlucky survivor after maybe just 30 seconds?
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Probably because survivors know they'll get tunneled out if they bring a key. And we all know why the killer reacts that way.
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Not if they just get removed.
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You mean a survivor who gets farmed, doesn't have DS or BT, and gets picked up immediately with no flashlight save or anything? Yeah, that can happen without moris as well. The killer just hooks them a third time instead of seeing the pretty animation.
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It's not a bad solution, but I can see it going either way. Because keys are rare and risky, most players probably wouldn't notice a difference in matches. But I could also see players getting a lot more aggressive with keys and bringing them more often, as well as focusing less on teamwork overall.
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It sounds like the problem is solved then lol
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If nobody else is gonna talk about it, I will.
People have been talking about it. Judging by your post count, surely you've seen the countless posts begging for the key nerf to come. Let's not pretend everyone is just fine with the situation lol. We're all impatient.
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Well it wouldnt matter for a killer if only one person can use it really, When im killing nothing is worse then busting your butt for multiple hooks getting down to end game and being cheated out of "winning"
Much how survivors were cheated out of living by Mori after 1 hook.
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The killer has to hook them three times... That's a bit different than Moriing them 30 seconds after the start of the match.
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Getting moried 30 seconds into the match is only possible if the victim is afk and someone is standing at the ready to farm them two times. 30 seconds is the chase time of an afk survivor lol
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I had someone bring a key and hatch offering then in post game chat they said "Key came in clutch, LETS GO!"
As if running a key and hatch spawn offering is something skillful or impressive. Just my two cents on it.
Still avoid lobbies with keys even with the 20 minute ques. That's if I play this game since mmr has been implemented.
Something just isn't fun about keys/medkits and deadhard/ironwill gamers every match.
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I still wouldn't argue they're the same. One hook can happen at the very beginning of the match before any gens are complete. Hatch appears much later.
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If this is yet another attempt to claim that devs are survivor biased, it's a rather weak one.
Moris were arguably a bigger problem than keys. They definitely needed fixing.
Keys will still be worked on, it's just that, as to be expected, it's taking a long time. But there are simply alsol not as easy fixes for keys as there are for Moris, that's what I am guessing. Keys are items, actually meant to help survivors out, Moris are just offerings.
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"Other posts don't matter" Lmao, I guess, since this is a killer main forum, you could be right here.
But the truth is that that's not the reason, or not the only reason. Of course, there is the fact that survivor needs to stay attractive, because we simply need 4 times as many survivor players as killer players for queue times to be short on both sides.
But I am sure there are other reasons as to why keys aren't nerfed yet. And it's not BHVR only caring for survivor players.
Keys are items, they are supposed to help survivors, Moris are just offerings. I'm sure there isn't a fix for keys as simple as Moris, unless you make them useless. Or the problem is that BHVR has plans regarding keys, but are sadly as to be expected, very slow with these changes. And they don't want to spend time for a faster fix to keys. Who knows.
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All they gotta do is make them only open hatch when all 5 gens are done.
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Out of about 100 games as a survivor i see maybe 2 keys ever being brought into game at most.
Most people dont even like to bring them in. I even see more moris (still rare) than keys.
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This is one of the reason I have uninstalled the game and wont play again as this game is a joke when it comes to balance.
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Oh boo hoo get over it it’s a ######### game you play to have fun.
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I haven't seen anyone bring a key in the longest time. I have 5 sat in my inventory but I just don't use them. If I find one in a match I will but part of the experience for me is finding the hatch before the killer can close it.
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Ok sure, there is no point explaining you if you just don't want to understand.
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So? If nobody’s using it, not really a huge issue compared to other problems in the game.
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And ? You could be a total potato and do nothing all game as still escape with someone else's key.
I at least have to work for 2 hooks, unless they are just afk.
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You're the one comparing them lol
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And yet, if one or more of those 4 players disconnects the game continues. If that 1 player disconnects, the entire match is canceled.
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What I don't understand is why the ebony mori is iridescent and you don't get more bp for using a mori to kill a survivor. Just kinda weird when I think about it. Like it does essentially nothing. whats even better is hex: devour hope and that doesn't go away after one use like a mori does. Plus only the iridescent mori, which is 7,000 bp a pop and goes away instantly even if it does not get used, is the only mori that lets you mori more that one survivor per match. I just find it strange tbh and see no reason running it besides just to have an offering for funsies.
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Isn't the whole thread about comparison?
Or are you just being obtuse at this stage?
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You compared old moris to keys and I pointed out how they're not the same. And then you were like, and?
Why bring it up if it doesn't actually matter? lol The key point you made earlier is fair, but the rest just comes off like back and forth salt.
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Keys have 0 counterplay.
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Because survivors spend more money than killers do.
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Franklin's, especially with the recent changes to it and keys make it so they play directly off of each other; and tunneling and camping, which are still considered valid strats. Killer being able to see survivor lobby before the trial starts helps prepare for that as well.
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Franklin’s does nothing…. A smart survivor will drop the key once they know you have franklin’s and then you basically have a wasted perk slot. There is nothing you can do.
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Once again the killer dominated forums find something else to whine about.
Keys have been nerfed, even recently and are only useful when hatch ACTUALLY APPEARS.
And to compare keys with a mori which do completely different things just looks like desperation to begin with.
Build a bridge, move on.
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It's still counterplay. The perk was rebalanced with key in mind. Just because it doesn't work in your favor 100% of the time doesn't mean it's not something you can do.
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Keys need a rework. Maybe they don't know how yet.
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It never works against competent players….ever
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Moris and Keys changed a bit over the years.
In the VERY old closed beta days, IIRC the hatch actually spawned shut at match start, meaning a team could escape through the hatch at 5 gens left with a key.
Moris had no hook requirement whatsoever. Down and dead. I kinda miss the extreme anxiety when the second survivor gets downed and you don't know if a mori was kill 1 survivor or all survivors.
The Brand New Part was literal insta-gen. 4 survivors with BNP's = 4 gens done right away.
I do want keys changed a bit, but I also want Mori's added as a base-kit mechanic similar to Pyramid Head that can be done on death hook if certain conditions are met (I.E. a fully charged Huntress Hatchet hits them in the head at long range while they're injured and on death hook, they're in madness 3 and downed on death hook as doctor, they're fully drained of evil as Myers and they're downed on death hook, etc.), or they are the last survivor. (Mori offerings can stay as a way to trigger the mori on death hook regardless if you've met the special conditions.)
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My guess is, moris were a way bigger deal. We know that keys only account for 3% of escapes. And if i think back how common moris were, i believe that number was way higher for kills due to moris.
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This discussion has happened time and time again lol.
The issue with old Moris was that there was absolutely nothing stopping the Killer from coming straight back to you after you got unhooked and just deleting you from the game. Meaning that if you got caught in a dead zone due to poor RNG at the start of the game, that 4v1 was pretty much instantly made into a 3v1. (This also isn't including insta-down Killers/Add-Ons, or perks like Haunted Grounds- which the Moris were normally paired with.) Sure, you could try to outrun the Killer- but again, many would run the best Add-Ons with Moris, and again, it didn't stop the fact that as soon as you were downed, that was it. At least with Camping/Tunneling, despite how crappy it is to verse, you have more chances to give your team more time for gens. It felt awful to play against, and personally? It didn't really feel all that fulfilling to play.
Imho, base keys are totally fine. I'm personally not a fan of the idea that 'Anything under a 4k isn't a win' mentality, and the game being unwinnable for Survivor in many cases where the key genuinely is an issue for escape I think kinda justifies it being how it is. (Granted, I don't think keys are an 'Instant Win' button as some like to call it, since I don't think an escape should always be considered a win for Survivor, so...) Idk, I think it makes sense due to the snowball-y nature of the game. (Something that genuinely goes both ways.) At least with Keys, you have to do more of your objective to use them then you had to with old Moris. (And, again- if someone escapes via hatch at 5 gens with a key after it was closed, I can't consider that a loss. They had 5 gens left, and if you really wanted to, you could slug for a 4k.)
Imho, the issues with keys more so just come from the add-ons and the ability to do last-minute swaps. (Everyone likes to talk about how keys are a 'Free Win' because you escape a match, but like... Blood Amber exists. That add-on is disgusting and seemingly no one talks about it.) I think if those things were changed, they wouldn't be as bad to face. (Because, honestly, I think them being found in chests is fine due to their low drop rate, and the fact that the perks to increase those drop rates take slots away from other perks that are a lot harsher to verse, while also being more consistent, such as... well, the entire meta. And, granted, people would probably still complain about the Survivor's ability to escape with it, but I think that's always going to be something that the fairness of is going to be argued until we get clear win conditions.)
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that’s what i’m thinking.
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It's still counterplay. I might get chased after pulling off a successful DS, but I was able to protect myself from being tunneled once. Ruin might get broken after one gen is complete, but it still did what it was supposed to do. Same concept.
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Changing requirement for number of hooks is easier than changing the whole key and hatch mechanic. One is changing a single number from 1 to 2, the other requires they look at keys, key add ons, hatch etc
Edit: It'll get changed eventually, but Behaviour ain't exactly known for being fast
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It's not counterplay if it never works.
If you are going to suggest counterplay atleast suggest the right one.
Mass slugging counters keys. The hatch can't spawn before gens are done if all survivors are alive. Keys also can't be used while on the ground. So keeping them slugged keeps the hatch from spawning while it stops them from progressing the game.
The problem with keys isn't how strong they are. It's how mindblowingly boring they are. They usually become active when the game starts to swing in the killers favour and just stops the match.
It's like in monopoly somebody stopping midgame and giving all their money and assets to another player. The killer is on boring cleanup duty as the other survivors don't stand a chance anymore
That's the problem. That when a survivor uses a key the game just is over for the rest of the players. It's litterally legal DCing
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Updating a perk so that it works directly in tandem with another item that got updated isn't counterplay? Is it only counterplay if it always works in your favor? lol If you start getting matched with players using No Mither, Unbreakable, or Soul Guard, then does that suddenly nullify mass slugging?
DBD isn't a game of Monopoly though. One survivor suiciding on hook, escaping early, or being camped/tunneled has the same effect as one hatch escape.
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Is it counterplay if it never works in your favor?
Hatch offerings are a thing and you can litterally tell where the hatch is before it spawns if you know what to look for. Drop the key there and Franklins does nothing.
Also keys where updated to work again with Franklin's not the other way around
If you start getting matched with players using No Mither, Unbreakable, or Soul Guard, then does that suddenly nullify mass slugging?
Yes?? If people are running soul guard and you have a hex up slugging is off the table. Really don't know what you are even trying to say here other then you having serious flawed logic
And how fun are survivors suiciding or getting camped/tunneled games? Comparing it to those events just further proves my point why keys are bad
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But is it able to work? Then yeah. You can't always predict how other people are going to play each match. If you have bad luck with survivors bringing keys and dropping them, that doesn't negate that Franklin's causes players to drop their items and drain charges from said items, which keys now require to unlock hatch.
That's a totally different argument. A one off of someone running Soul Guard while you have a hex active doesn't mean that hexes never work or that Soul Guard is always successful. Again, you can't account for how other people play.
We're talking about how keys have no counterplay (which they do and you've admitted to anyway). Who's talking about fun?
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