Why were moris gutted for being toxic, but keys are unchanged?
If nobody else is gonna talk about it, I will.
We all remember when moris got nerfed, when they got a +1 hook requirement. And you know, it was mostly about people's feelings getting hurt, because killers could spam moris or whatever, and that was "toxic". So the nerf was in whole or in part based off of a feeling*. And people had often viewed moris and keys as equivalents, because they were both unfair, no-skill shortcut mechanics. They are equivalents no longer, because moris are now just pretty animations that take longer than simply hooking someone a third time.
So why haven't keys been nerfed? They're used to be toxic. Survivors stand on hatch and tbag like they did something special, knowing there's nothing the killer can even do at that point, and then they press their "I win" button in the killer's face and escape. That hurts the killer's feelings*, so that's enough reason for them to nerfed into unusability, right? Following the logic that's been set in place, keys should be basically never seen in standard play right now, right?
Oh what? Nothing happened to them after all this time?
Oh what? They still open hatch instantaneously?
Oh what? (I can go on, but you get the picture).
Why the double standards?
Comments
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They were not gutted for being toxic but unfair. Keys are also unfair but they will change it they said so. As always they need time, lot's of time.
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Because 4 happy players at the expense of 1 is "smart business".
That's the answer.
Other posts don't matter.
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i mean, they ARE eventually gonna change keys (since they’ve said it). but we all know how slow BHVR can be to implement changes lol
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Yes, lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of time...
Don't hold your breath for keys changes. Devs have been promising forever and they've had an eternity to incorporate changes into the game. It ain't gonna happen. Just do what I do and dodge lobbies with keys or tunnel survivors who bring/find a key.
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Judging by how a BHVR official called this useless mori version toxic in the 5th anniversary live, I wouldn't say the same.
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They shouldn't even be in the game. They were limited time items that got their stay extended to permanent.
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"If no one else is gonna talk about it"
Dude, everyone wants to talk about it.
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Then why don't they?
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Except people do talk about it - and the Mods have explained as recently as 2 days ago. Try searching for threads instead of regurgitating the same inane thing over and over maybe?
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The entire point of needing moris was so that players didn't have their game ended super quickly as all you had to do was down and tunnel them, boom they're now dead. No fun.
Keys are no different especially with the conditions for hatch to spawn. A great example was a recent game where I was dominating the match. They made poor choices and were published for it but then all of a sudden when I'm about to 4k, three of them immediately escape through hatch denying me a win that I deserved. Keys needs a nerf but they made it difficult on themselves with a stupid achievement that advertises players to open hatch for their entire team.
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These are also the same devs that promised that console optimization was bring prioritized for years and it has only gotten worse and worse with them completely ignoring the issue when brought up.
Their words ring hollow because they never back them up with action.
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If I have to search for threads, then it must not be as common as you think it is.
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Key's were buffed actually they came out with Blueprints at the same time. So now instead of just "Hunting the Key". It's Survivor brings in key and blueprint. Places key in shack. Now no matter when the hatch spawns the remaining survivors escape.
Can't counter it with Franklins, because they are dropping the key at the start of the match.
No time to find hatch, because everyone in the match knows it's going to spawn at Shack.
Can't just camp the hatch, there are gens and 2 doors they will use instead if you do.
It's literally a lose - lose - lose situation for Killer.
And the complaint was Mori's were bad because you had to perform half of your entire objective to use them at the time in the first place.
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since when were they supposed to be a limited time item?
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I learned recently that if an achievement becomes impossible to achieve they can change it. An example eventually will be once Hawkins leaves, the achievement associated with completing the generator and escaping will be changed. As well as likely the Adept Stranger Things characters.
Depending on how they change keys and the hatch, the achievement for escaping with all 4 survivors will change as well.
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Now that you mention it, I've only heard it from Tru3. I thought they were originally part of some kind of limited time event, like firecrackers in Chinese New Year. If that's not the case though, my bad. I wasn't playing the game when they were first introduced so I don't know for sure. But I don't think Tru3 would just make that up.
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I've honestly been checking all the patch notes and it was at least never mentioned in any of the ones i saw, even the official ones from BHVR.
Keys came just after Nea & Nurse, you can see the official patch notes from the steam forums
https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/350542683196133344/
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Been a solid 9 months and still no word on nerfing Keys lmao. Literally all they had to was change numbers so a Killer wouldn't get robbed with 3 man hatch escape lol.
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Maybe they are waiting for the boon totems as a compensation buff.
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I don't think keys need any rework. What else can you do? They already have a poor spawn rate, have counterplay and get filtered out of the match fairly quickly if they're seen, and require a charge to even use. They don't even come into play until at least 4 gens are completed and one survivor is dead.
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Keys are getting changed. The mori change in december was just an easy change, to make it much more fair, keys need a full rework.
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Well change hatch mechanics if you cant change keys. Just make it so hatch doesn't spawn until there's only 1 survivor left. Nothing promotes survivors to stop playing the game more than when there's only 2 of them left and they both play for hatch.
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I think hatch is fine as is, but that's a better argument to make. Most of the key arguments boil down to hatch or chest mechanics, or doing things that make the key, which is already a highly situational item, worthless.
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It's clearly been too much time. Their genuine, pants-wetting fear of making impactful changes has completely hamstrung them from what could be as simple as a temporary fix, like making the hatch close 1 second after a key opened it to prevent multiple escapes.
That really should take mere minutes of work, and it's a fantastic stop-gap measure that took me only a few seconds to come up with as I was typing this. But the Devs are absolutely terrified of doing anything like this for reasons that are genuinely unknown.
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They also said they were going to impliment an early-game collapse.
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Change the hatch spawn to only spawn when all gens are done or a single survivor is left.
Boom all issues with keys fixed with a single number fix.
I understand they want to do more with keys and mories in the future. But there is no reason they can't tone them down before that happens like they did with mories
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Didn’t a mod confirm they are still working on a a keys rework but wasn’t ready to share details?
Also, There’s been plenty of conversations about them.
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*Survivor changes*
Fixed it
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Don't worry, they'll get to key changes with the next mori update. Just like they were going to get to it the last 2 mori updates. They should really just stop talking about keys like the changes are coming. They aren't.
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Step 1: Remove all keys from chests. This means if someone has a key you can see it in the lobby. No finding one mid game.
Step 2: Buff plunderes instinct accordingly. As it can't help with keys anymore it needs something to make it viable.
Step 3: Lock survivors into their character much earlier. No more last second switch.
Step 4: Hatch only spawns when all but one survivor is dead and/or gates are powered.
Step 5: To prevent key hiding next to the hatch the entity begins to claim unguarded keys after 60 seconds.
Step 6: Green keys can now open hatch but have a lengthy animation. Purple have a short animation and Iridescent are instant.
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'if nobody else is gonna talk about it'.... jfc, it's not as if this isn't one of the most discussed topics on the forum and one of the things people consistently spam the social media accounts with. Verily, NO ONE is talking about it
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This is the answer.
I read that their upcoming changes to keys will now allow survivors to earn them during a match just by playing well. I wonder how they’re going to screw that up.
As others have said, they could have made changes to the hatch or only allow one person to escape with a key when they nerfed Moris, but that would upset their cash cows so the opted to just nerf moris.
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By counterplay you mean you camp the hell out of the person who bought it and make the game as unfun as possible for them then yes. They have counterplay.
There is nothing my frustrating than working your butt off in game and beating cheated out of victory than by a "rare" item, if only the holder could benefit from it i'd think thats fair but for 3 survs to escape who are potentially on death hook is just beyond cheese.
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Camping the keyholder doesn't actually help you as you are just allowing people to do gens and make the hatch spawn with 1 gen remaining.
The counter to keys is never killing anybody and going extreme slug heavy. Looking to get the entire team down before hooking them
Still unfun but this actually works sometimes
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I'd take a loss just to see the key be wasted. But ill take your advice on board, or i just bring the single Mori and go for it.
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Saw my first last second key switch yesterday, and guess what they escaped in the hatch 😅
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Be careful with mori-ing the key user though, my teammates and even I myself have picked up the key from beneath the dead Survivor's hook. Even escaped through hatch with it! At least Franklin's can make the key unusable... maybe a Franklin's + Hoarder combo.
Still a lot of bull to go through to keep the key from being used, sadly.
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Moris got nerfed twice since their release and keys got buffed by adding hatch offerings.
I'd say it's save to assume a key nerf will take a looooong time.
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Mods burry the Posts by moving them, closing them, editing them...All we want is awareness, who cares if it's in the wrong section? we want people to see and comment on it to get it to be visible.
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Franklin's is one. Camping and tunneling are viable game mechanics, so those are also an option. As part of the asymmetrical nature of the game, killer can also see the survivor lobby which allows for prep work if someone has a key (granted they don't whip it out right before countdown). There's also the option of creating an EGC build if you encounter keys often.
I'm not saying you have to love keys, but I'm asking what could they change about them? Regardless of how common they may seem, they're still a rare spawn. Survivors are much more likely to find useless keys in chests, and the ones they find in the bloodweb or recover from matches can easily fall victim to Franklin's, cause them to get camped/tunneled out of the match, or never offer an opportunity to be used on hatch. Beyond that, they still require a charge to use, which Franklin's can also nullify, and they can only be utilized when hatch appears. The only real solutions are to get rid of keys altogether or to change when hatch appears.
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You know that the data shows that keys are hardly ever used?
Old mori’s were extremely more common.
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He called the old version toxic and said thats why they wanted to make mori's a natural part of the trial rather than the killer bringing an offering to be able to mori people.
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Moris 1.0 bypassed up to three hook states. Moris 2.0 still bypassed up to two. Now moris are still an option to not need to hook a survivor, and still potentially bypass Decisive Strike. I would agree to some mori changes, but nothing less than requiring all survivors be hooked at least once for the green and pink rarities.
Keys have never had such unfairness about them. They require a decent amount of game progression and/or survivors to die to even be usable. And that’s if you find the hatch and still have your key. And killers have a perk that can completely remove an item from a trial just by performing one basic attack, which is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
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Not true. Hatch spawns when the number of generators completed outnumbers the number of living survivors by one.
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Nope, he spoke about the new version.
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I know the conditions, but I used 4 since it's the earliest it can spawn with the fewest sacrifices. Probably should've elaborated.
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Could everyone shut up with the conspiracy’s the devs just nerfed mori’s cause they were annoying and unfun. Yes keys are kinda the same cause they end the game quicker but it’s a completely different entity. You can’t just change the numbers of keys and do something else it’s more complicated then mori’s they have to do new animations and rework the core function of them.
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Reading this is funny because it's the complete opposit, the devs stated in the anniversary stream that killers will be able to earn their mories and didn't mention keys even once, kinda of crazy how someone twisted what the devs have said to swap mories to keys.
If they make keys earnable we'll see how it goes but they directly said mories would be earnable, not keys.
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Well I didn’t twist anything, I just stated what I read. And if the person who wrote what I read was lying, then shame on them and I’m sorry for spreading the rumor.
Doesn’t change the fact that the Devs could have temporarily changed how the hatch works when they nerfed Moris to make it more fair for killers but opted to leave keys as is and let survivors have easy escapes.
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Nope he 100% spoke about the previous version and how they weren’t done with changes to it. Time stamp on this is at the 1:36:00 mark where the design director discusses this. Please rewatch that specific part of the anniversary livestream because clearly you missed it.
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