Should Franklin's Demise Work on Lament Configuration?
I've seen a lot of videos on this combination on Pinhead and I'm honestly starting to wonder if the interaction between Franklin's and Lament Configuration is intentional?
I get it, it makes sense as LC is an item you can pick up and carry around with you and solve at your leisure, yes but I know a lot of perks specifically won't interact with a killer's power eg. Pig with Unnerving Presence + her Jigsaw search box skill checks.
But what I've seen in these videos.. Utilizing Hoarder and Franklin's together the survivors can't even solve the LC until late in match. Chaining Chain Hunts together multiple times is just disgusting. I'm dreading eventually going up against this myself in my matches and now I really am considering getting Twins to get Hoarder (Though I think Franklin's is plenty enough). The ability to teleport to them and still knock the cube from their hands with Franklin's is just nutty. You don't even have to keep chasing them, as long as you just pick up the cube and reset it you maintain immense 4v1 pressure with the map-wide Chain Hunt.
I come here asking you all, and mods/devs as well I guess, is this interaction intended? Do you think it's OK? I can understand if Pinhead downs the person holding the box but Franklin's makes all of this seem way too easy. He already gets notified when someone is solving the box, can teleport to it and interrupt them and add-ons that slow the solving of this just make that even more feasible. I just don't know how to feel about it since it's such an oppressive effect for a passive ability. Come to think of it you really don't need Hoarder if you use the slow solve add on freeing up a valuable perk slot for something like Ruin to pair with nigh-eternal Chain Hunts.
Idk, I'd rather see the more active parts of his kit be improved in ways like him breaking his own chains for example or making the LC have a certain range survivors need to be in to see it until Chain Hunt begins. Idk there's so many positive changes that could be made to improve him in less, oppressive ways I think.
Comments
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Since Pinhead sucks, yes. Please just let him run a perk that isn't slowdown, I don't want this nerfed just for people to cry "OMG all Killers run the same builds :((((("
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Franklin's Demise makes survivors drop their currently held item, the Lament Configuration just happens to be an item. Then, being in range of the Lament Configuration while it's on the ground causes Pinhead to pick it up automatically.
This isn't an interaction with his power, just a happy accident.
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If Pinheads wanna give half their build to this, I don't see why not. Pinhead can still only go after one single survivor.
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Hoarder alone is better than Franklin's. Once you down the survivor, you can interrupt the actions of all survivors. Combine that with Thrilling and they won't get that gen done anytime soon.
In other words, Franklin's on Pinhead is fine.
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Its intentional we already went over it on PTB.
This thread is potato's.
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It's just silly game mechanics. It's technically considered an item since you have to drop your item to pick it up.
Kind of like how No Mither still spawns blood orbs with Oni on a weird technicality.
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I disagree with people saying survivors are going to get it nerfed. Firstly, whens the last time genuinely bad survivors were catered to? With that in mind I think Franklin's should work with the lament box
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On the contrary. I only wish that more Killers had powers that could be drastically complimented/augmented by perk combinations. Im tired of running from the same old bbq, corrupt intervention, undying and ruin build.
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You can't do gens while being chain hunted. You can't really do anything while being perpetually interrupted by chains. If Chain Hunt starts and he refreshes the Chain Hunt by getting the box from the person holding it everyone across the map is effectively paused from doing things or massively hindered in doing so.
By all means generalize everyone. I play both sides and I'm simply making an observation that using Franklin's to keep chaining Chain Hunts is nutty because it is. Survivors can't really do anything except find and solve the box while being chain hunted and if Pinhead keeps going straight to them and interrupting them before they can solve it and resetting chain hunts, how is that fair exactly?
What's the play here? Hold the box hostage like Victor? Please give constructive feedback instead of jumping to accusing my concerns to me being a "potato" because it's insulting. I don't want Pinhead to be nerfed or weak I just think this play style is potentially very problematic. Had I known everyone would be so rude I wouldn't have made this thread, goodness.
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Wow a situation where a killer can have SOME semblance of synergy. I tried that build and I think it is still pretty bad. So it is a non issue.
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Hex lullaby should be a good example XD
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I wanna remind you that teleporting to the one solving the Lament automatically ends the Chain-Hunt. They lose the cube, too.
So if you wanna use this build, you will have to WALK to the one solving it. Only then you can chain Chain-Hunts together.
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The only thing that absolutely needs to be fixed is franklins causing the cube to be drop underneath dropped pallets so it's can't be grabbed or solved.
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People: the meta is boring, shake it up.
Also people: a niche and unused perk are good on this one killer... nerf it so they too can use the meta.
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Pretty sure teleporting to them makes it so they can't steal the box, it like "solves" the box or something.
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Except that, in the current iteration of Pinhead. His base power is bad. The only time he IS good, is with chain hunts. So, people are finding out how to build around actually using chain hunts.
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How is that a weird technicality? No Mither makes you injured and broken. Oni's power literally makes survivors who are injured drop blood orbs.
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Right, almost like how his power was designed? The point of it, is that you want to prevent the chain hunts. In order to take this build, this pinhead likely isn't stacking gen slowdown perks. They are taking 2 perks to use a combo that synergizes with their power. This combo IS their gen slowdown. And for once we have a killer that isn't using ruin/undying/tinkerer to do it.
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No Mither doesn't leave pools of blood, but it leaves blood orbs. It's weird that they're two different mechanics.
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1. Original Ruin change
2. Skill check perks not affecting things like snapping out of Doctor's madness
3. Hook counters in the survivor UI (smart survivors already remembered hook stages)
4. Freddy's nerfs
I'm sure there are others but these are the most blatant that came to mind.
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Blood Orbs are from being injured. It has nothing to do with being Pools of Blood which is why Hemorrhage doesn't make more Blood Orbs spawn either.
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I'm sorry but I think that having to run a certain perk or perk combo to make a killer S tier is poor design. We saw what happened with Stridor Spirit.
This is why I think other areas of him should be buffed to compensate rather than making the oppressive aspect of his kit the only thing everyone focuses on.
Ruin is still pretty strong on Pinhead. If / when Chain Hunts starting triggering, survivors can't do the gens and Ruin regresses them creating a very nasty cycle of perpetual regression and bringing the game to a halt.
I know no one is listening but I'm not necessarily asking for this interaction to be "nerfed" I just wanted to know if it really, truly was intentional because seeing people keep survivors in a Chain Hunt for almost the entirety of the match seems crazy but if you all think that's fair and balanced then okay, no need to be so rude. You guys need to chill out, I just wanted advice, clarification and sensible discussion not skill shaming and drama. It's like if someone has a different opinion or a concern on here you all flip out.
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Pinhead can't really keep a chain active the entire match unless you get a small map like Wrecker's Yard. The box will spawn away from Pinhead and even with double solving addons he won't be able to interupt the person solving the box. As good as Hoarder's and Franklins are on Pinhead, they do struggle on large maps like Mother's Dwelling and Suffocation Pin/Azarov's Resting Place where survivors can pick up the box outside of Hoarder's range and can solve before Pinhead can reach to them.
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Seems pretty pointless to me though, which is why I said it's a weird technicality.
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Yes, it should work like that.
The Chain Hunt IS his power.
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Exactly. Pinhead has insane slowdown built-in, with counterplay on the Survivors' part.
If they made the solving time longer at base, or even outright removed the possessed chain altogether in favor of leaving the Lament unsolved in the Survivor's hands when he teleports, I'd have no problems with this setup.
Hell, like people have said, it offers a breach from the Corrupt Ruindying and Chili build.
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Oh god, here come the cryers that hate it when a killer has good, off-meta builds
yes, let's nerf Frank's and Hoarder so that the Pinheads will use Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/BBQ like every other killer
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Considering the ENTIRE change to franklins demise was because these dingbat devs couldnt figure out how to make it work with nemesis's vaccines, I am 100% certain this is not intentional.
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Imagine committing half your build to just making your power work, and then having survivors cry about it. Poor Pincushion...
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You do know he already has an innate Franklin's Demise effect when he downs a survivor with the box right?
All the perk does is to let the innate effect work on healthy survivors.
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If it didn't, all this would do is make Franklin's and Hoarder disappear altogether. Again.
Most killers already struggle to justify anything that doesn't slow the pace of the game down, so why reduce the number of perks showing up by making this change? I say leave it.
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Now you get to explain to the class why you think an object which is picked up and used as an item, reacts to item perks, and is classified as an item by both the inventory and score system if you leave a match with it is not an item.
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What would you rather have?
A pinhead with hoarder+franklins or A spirit/blight with ruin+undying+tinkerer?
For the love of god stop nerfing everything the killer gets. Maybe if you let them have something nice you won't face the same 3 killers every game.
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It works with the vaccines too
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it's a build that isn't the "boring" "killer meta" so i say sure - keep and add more fun interactions like this into the gameplay and build diversity will go up which will lead to a more fun experience
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I'm surprised that this is even up for discussion. Lets just consider how the Lament configuration even works when it comes to survivors vs Pinhead:
- Survivors see the Lament Configurations aura as soon as it spawns, with the only exception being if The Cenobite brings in an Ultra Rare add-on, which still reveals it's aura when the survivors get within 16 meters of it.
- When a Survivor Simply picks up the LC, that ends any active chain hunt for their entire team.
- If a Survivor Solves the LC, it respawns in 45 seconds, but if The Cenobite picks it up the respawn time is 10 seconds.
- It takes 90 seconds by default for the LC to trigger a chain hunt IF no one picks it up, which can only be reduced to 75 seconds with the aid of add-on's.
So, we have an Aspect of the Killers power that the survivors can not only take control over, can even see at all times whenever it spawns, can also delay the chain hunts by a maximum of 135 seconds (90 + 45 seconds or 2 min 15 seconds) before the next chain hunt can commence every time they solve it, and if the killer gets it, the ensuing chain hunt will last a little over 10 seconds before a survivor picks up the box again.
OP is ACTUALLY SUGGESTING that the killer shouldn't be able to use a perk combo to activate AN ASPECT OF HIS POWER more often, and instead give survivors complete control over whether or not it's ALLOWED?
...
While we're at it, we might as well make it so that Blinding the Shape with a Flashlight removes his Stalking Progress, Billy's Chainsaw needs to be refueled with gas cans all over the map that survivors can tip over, Nurse needs an inhaler in order to blink that the survivors can pick up to keep away from her, and why don't we re-instate permanent Sabotage for Trappers Bear Traps.
Also all killers can no longer use the same perks 2 games in a row, and any that synergize with a killers power are unavailable.
That sounds like a "fun" game to me, what do you guys think? I would play the HELL out of that game!
/s
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Won't all pinheads run this same build if it is very META?
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Something I was already testing and suspected, then Dowsey all but confirmed it in a recent video. Franklin's is not needed in this combo, and actually makes it less efficient. It's better to just use hoarder, and chase/down the survivor naturally. If you use Franklin's, it forces you to stop and pick up the configuration to start the hunt. This wastes your time, and lets the survivor get away. However, if you just use the hoarder notification, interrupt the survivor and down them normally, you automatically pick up the box and start the hunt. It's much faster, and you have a person to put on the hook.
As far as the interaction with Franklin's/Hoarder on the Lament Configuration, I suspect it will be changed. It was clearly the devs intention for the Lament Configuration to not be found very frequently by the Cenobite. With hoarder how it is, and addons to slow the solving of the cube, or extend your portal range, it is insanely easy to interrupt the survivor holding the cube.
Franklin's isn't the problem, Hoarder is. The easiest way to fix the issue is to make it so Hoarder doesn't notify the killer when the cube is picked up. Leave Franklin's as is, and let the killer be able to knock the cube out of the survivor's hand if they are lucky enough to find/catch the survivor holding it.
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I'm gonna fart in your face instead 😎
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They nerfed Franklin on Nemesis so survivors could keep the vaccine.
Honestly, its a matter of time for Pinhead to get the same treatment.
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The hoarder/franklin's interaction should be kept because it's a nice, fun interaction with the killer's power. Is it annoying? At times it can be but is it busted? Not at all. I'd rather they keep this because we need killers that can run other stuff than just 4 gen slowdown perks. I mean, isn't that what we all want at the end of the day, a bit more perk variety in killers? So let's just keep this interaction, even if you find it annoying. They fixed Franklin's with Nemmy's vaccines so it won't be destroying items anymore which is fine now.
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It’s not silly, actually - it’s intended. It’s an item so it needs to be dropped by a basic attack with Franklin’s. Same with Oni - standard blood orbs are caused by (coding-wise) being INJURED, it has nothing to do with the actual blood.
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My point with the blood orbs is that it's weird that it's a separate mechanic when it's essentially the same thing. I don't see why they wouldn't link it with blood pools, so it's a weird technicality linking it to the injured state.
The item thing is weird just because despite it being an item, it's not a typical item. It's like if the reverse bear trap were an item. Just an odd mechanic.
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Reverse Bear Trap and the Lament Box are two different things, though. RBT is held by Trapper and Survivors can only interact with active traps (no pickup obviously). The Lament Box is an actual item survivors can pick up, use and drop like any other item - that’s why Franklin’s affects it.
Yeah, the Oni thing is weird but it’s good because then perks like Lucky Break or No Mither don’t deprive him of his power.
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The point of the no mither and oni blood orb interaction is that No Mither SHOULD cause blood orbs to not spawn when against oni because the tooltip for No Mither says specifically that your blood coagulates instantly, and should, logically, not spawn blood orbs for oni.
Saying it works the way it does is INTENDED is something I don't agree with. I think they just didn't think about that interaction when coding oni and haven't bothered to fix it cause it's like a z-list issue they can ignore indefinitely.
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Naturally, I get that. But it's still weird.
They should though. No Mither's only real power is that it prevents blood pools, so not preventing blood orbs makes no sense.
I think they just didn't think about that interaction when coding oni and haven't bothered to fix it cause it's like a z-list issue they can ignore indefinitely.
This is what I'm thinking.
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