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Survivors holding 3-gen hostage? BHVR Staff clarification please!
So from the screenshot attached, Peanits had said the following: "Specifically if they’re making no attempt to finish generators, and the hatch isn’t available (so you can’t close it and start the EGC)." is considered holding the game hostage and thus against the game’s rules.
However, I wanted to ask Peanits, or any other actual BHVR staff whether the following situation counts as survivors making an "attempt to finish generators":
More than 1 living Survivor remaining. 1 Generator remaining; a 3-gen setup. The Survivors run at the killer to try and get the killer to chase them but immediately run away from the 3-gen if any attempt is made at all, all the while never ever touching generators. They are not repairing generators at any point whatsoever during this. Killer is ignoring the Survivors because there is no reason to chase someone not actively repairing, and is continuing to patrol the Generators as is intended of normal gameplay to defend the Generators from completion. Zero gen progression is being made from anyone at all.
Is actually repairing the Generator required? (Progressing repair progress) Or is it allowed for Survivors to never actually progress Generator repairs like in the above example?
Comments
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I do not believe this counts as a hostage situation because an attempt is still being made to complete generators. The survivors do not wish to be hurt, and so will attempt to run the killer away from the 3gen, however as they keep returning over and over it's showing they are making an attempt, and were the killer to follow some bait then generator progress would be made.
However, as I'm unsure, I'm pinging in @MandyTalk in hopes she can shed some light into the situation.
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I would agree if survivors were repairing and left when the killer came by, but in this case, the killer would literally give up the last generator for free to chase people not touching generators at all. So without the killer throwing the match, it still ends up as zero gen progress.
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A bait that does nothing and gets nowhere if the killer doesn’t decide to throw the game willingly, because nobody is touching generators. It’s why I wanted to get an official BHVR response on the matter the way Peanits responded the first time around.
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I guess I’m just more the mindset people should be repairing whatever generators of the 3 the killer isn’t at at a given moment, as someone that plays both survivor and killer evenly and considers 3-gens as always preventable ahead of time/a result of failure of prevention.
Some form of maximum time limit in this case would be nice in my opinion just so games cannot go on ridiculously long in this sort of situation. For instance, an 8 minute timer or so once only one generator is left. Playing out a game that long at that point in such a 3-gen is just painful for both sides in my opinion.
Either way, at this point I just want to have an official confirmation either way so I can know for sure.
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It is definitely not against the rules to try and counter a 3 gen strat. It would be silly if the survivors had to feed themselves to every killer who sets up a 3 gen.
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That’s why I’m asking if bad chase baits is enough or if actually touching generators is required, from an official BHVR staff member. Refusing to touch generators or do anything at all and hide on the opposite end of the map is an example of something Peanits said is bannable.
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it's definitely one of those case by case things, so I don't think anyone can give you a clear cut answer without seeing some video.
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Both sides are to blame.
The survivors refused to work on gens and the killer refused to chase.
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If you stay by your 3 gen and refuse to chase them when given the chance the you are technically holding the game hostage just as much as they are.
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If they're approaching but running away that probably still counts as trying to do a gen, as I'd assume if one of them actually gets chased the other would hop on a gen. Not really any different to the killer not taking the bait and staying by the gens.
Not exactly fun for anyone involved, and in my experience very rare as it usually doesn't take long for one side, the other or both to get bored.
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Except the killer’s role is both sacrificing survivors AND preventing escape (via preventing gens from going, hence the Gatekeeper Emblem). Survivor role is to finish the generators so they can escape. One is intended play. Hiding on the opposite end of the map and never touching generators is refusal to participate in normal gameplay, hence the example Peanits said is bannable. This is why I’m asking BHVR staff whether just chase baits and never touching generators is fine.
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I blame game mechanics.
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The problem I’d have with cases like this is people run at me to try and make me chase them, but the second I turn to do so, they run completely away from the 3-gen which makes it stupid to chase cause that’s giving up the gen for free. So I don’t, and patrol gens. But even when I’m at one of the three gens, no one is trying to repair either of the other two I’m not at. Like yes, I would make my way over eventually at which point they could run off, but I’d be okay with THAT because they were at least repairing.
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Not quite. The survivor's job isn't to do generators, the survivor's job is to escape. To survive. That's it. The generators are a means to an end.
The killer's job isn't to sacrifice survivors, it's to prevent their escape. You could argue these two things are too closely linked to make a real distinguishment but there is a difference there (look at Pyramid Head or Moris, for example).
Stealth is a valid tactic to escape (hiding in a bush, for example), however it's when they do nothing that it becomes a hostage situation. These survivors were still acting and, again, it can be assumed that if the killer had chased one the others would have began generator repairs. Which is why I don't think it is a hostage situation- as the game can still progress easily. By the killer going for a survivor.
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Not sure why it matters at all but I’ve had it happen with pretty much any killer I play normally (Trapper, Wraith, Nurse, Doctor, Legion, Demogorgon, Oni, Pyramid Head, Blight, Trickster, Nemesis, Pinhead) at one point or another. With the absolute majority of cases, people just hide in the complete opposite corner of the map and never ever touch generators which I already know is reportable/bannable, but I wanted to know whether this specific case would be reportable or not from official word-of-mouth. I’ve had cases like these where they’d make the world’s worst chase baits but never touch generators anyways.
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Except the devs literally stated in the screenshots from OP that actively not repairing generators is bannable.
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The killer having to chase after bait like that is throwing the game though. That’s just giving away generator progress for free after the killer successfully 3-genned them when it was entirely preventable before it got to that point. That’s my point of contention. I agree with what you’re saying, but it would also seem unreasonable to mandate a killer to chase in that situation.
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They've also stated that stealthing around is entirely valid, and chosing to not work with or trust your teammates is a style of play they support too.
In more extreme cases, like two or three survivors doing nothing for several minutes, then it should 100% be bannable but if we follow their statement word for word then the brand new survivor player who's scared out of their wits and so hiding in a corner and crouching everywhere is reportable for holding the game hostage.
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To which I agree- it would make zero sense to force the killer to chase a survivor and throw the game in the process, all to avoid being reported. That would just be harmful for the game.
Which is why I take my stance of "It's not a hostage situation as both were trying". It's a battle of attrition at this point- who will make a mistake first. The game is guaranteed to eventually progress as a mistake is guaranteed to be made, after all, and both sides are attempting to progress the game forward.
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I feel like there should be some form of mechanic that at least just auto-ends the game after a certain duration. Chess has a similar thing called draw by repetition where if the same position occurs 3 times, the game can be ended as a draw, just so the game does not last infinitely long doing nonstop back and forth.
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You see, that would need a QOL feature to be implemented and, rather tragically, the company seems to hate doing that.
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Yeah I think as long as both sides are trying then it's cool. Although thinking about my most recent 3-gen situation, I'm sure the survivors would've reported me for holding the game hostage.
We were on a Coldwinds map and they gen rushed to the point where they 3-genned in such a way that it was perfect for me to defend all three just by standing in the center of them all, AND there was a hook right behind the two outer gens and one behind me in the center. They tried to bait me and every time I'd always catch one of their other guys running towards a gen, not even sneaking just running by. So went back, downed and hooked them then proceeded to guard the gens and the hook.
Long story short I got the 4k and a lot of salt with a dash of death threats and a pinch of slurs thrown my way. Fun times.
* I guess I should've added that I was playing Bubba at the time, and no I wasn't basement camping, I was actually playing the game normally.
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