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Please allow the killer to close the hatch

Yoinked
Yoinked Member Posts: 8
edited December 2018 in General Discussions
when I saw that killers were allowed to close the hatch if they found it before the survivor that it was a very fair balancing mechanic but they didn’t release it with the patch. I find it quite silly,unfair, and boring when I get into these staring matches where the survivor is t-bagging me because he knows he’s safe on the hatch no matter what since if I hit him they escape. I’ve gotten into this situation countless of times. The idea of a race to the hatch where either the survivor escape or the killer closes this means of escape is so much more exciting and fun. I’d feel like the survivor actually deserved the escape rather than when they just t-bag me for 5 minutes trying to get me to swing, eventually leaving to work on a gen and then hiding away until I actually commit to the gen or if I commit to the hatch. I try and bait them with my TR but I can’t because they just bait me with a gen and they have a huge advantage at this point (ESPECIALLY at cold wind farm with all the damn corn) because they can just hide away and use my terror radius to locate me and just easily maneuver around me. Why punish the killer this much because there is one survivor left. I believe that allowing the killer to close the hatch if they make it to the hatch first is much more balanced and implements real challenge and skill for the survivor to win by themselves . Otherwise most of the time it’s a gaurentedd escape for the survivor. I know I can just leave one on the floor and search for the other but I’ve even got into a match where they hid, didn’t help the guy bleeding out and just waited until they had an opportunity to leave via hatch. It extremely favors the survivor in this situation and makes the last moments extremely dull and makes the game feel really cheesy for allowing them to play you that easily. 
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Comments

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    Or just slug 
  • Yoinked
    Yoinked Member Posts: 8
    edited December 2018
    Vietfox said:
    Or just slug 
    I do slug like I said in the op. I’ve had survivors let the other bleed out while they hide away somewhere. The worst is when they run the whole ninja perk build (UE, QnQ, etc.) because there’s no way to track them.There’s a lot of toxic survivors that will really just let their teammate take the fall so they can escape.
  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    Yoinked said:
    Vietfox said:
    Or just slug 
    I do slug like I said in the op. I’ve had survivors let the other bleed out while they hide away somewhere. The worst is when they run the whole ninja perk build (UE, QnQ, etc.) because there’s no way to track them.There’s a lot of toxic survivors thag will really just let teammate take the fall so they can escape.
    Yeah it was too long to read, in that case run whispers.
    That survivor might think you are using the other survivor as a bait, so i wouldn't say they are being toxic.
  • ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 360

    @Vietfox said:
    Or just slug 

    Slugging is boring and most of the time it doesn't work against good survivors that don't care about saving the other guy they will just hide forever.

  • Yoinked
    Yoinked Member Posts: 8
    Vietfox said:
    Yoinked said:
    Vietfox said:
    Or just slug 
    I do slug like I said in the op. I’ve had survivors let the other bleed out while they hide away somewhere. The worst is when they run the whole ninja perk build (UE, QnQ, etc.) because there’s no way to track them.There’s a lot of toxic survivors thag will really just let teammate take the fall so they can escape.
    Yeah it was too long to read, in that case run whispers.
    That survivor might think you are using the other survivor as a bait, so i wouldn't say they are being toxic.
    Hm yeah that’s a fair assumption to be fair. Funny when I’ll still run around the map looking for them. I run distressing for bloodpoints and I only run killers that actually benifit from it but I guess it’s harder for them to gauge how close you really are to the survivor. Idk I just really don’t enjoy the long staring matches when I get there before then or when we both arrive there at the same time. Sometimes I wander off and they sneak in and thats fine with me because I was careless but man those staring matches are a waste of time. 
  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Vietfox said:

    Yeah it was too long to read, in that case run whispers.
    That survivor might think you are using the other survivor as a bait, so i wouldn't say they are being toxic.

    Been playing for some time now, but I still don't know, so I'll ask: Do whispers trigger with a crawling or hooked survivor? What about lockers?

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    How is it fair if the killer can close the hatch?

    The killer moves faster, and doesn't have to worry about staying hidden while roaming the map. The killer will almost always find the hatch first.

    The hatch exists to give survivors a reason to play on. Something to shoot for once the game is lost, otherwise they might as well just walk up to the killer and ask to be hooked.
  • ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 360

    @Vietfox said:
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Vietfox said:

    Or just slug 

    Slugging is boring and most of the time it doesn't work against good survivors that don't care about saving the other guy they will just hide forever.

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    As i said: Whispers
    There was a time when i used to slug to get the 4K but now i don't care at all. I hook the 3rd survivor right away and go look for the last one.
    Gets the hatch? gg
    I get the 4K? gg

    No one is going to use a tracking just for the hatch. Everytime I play as survivor either my team is ok and I escape or I do all the generators and some idiot that doesn't do anything gets the hatch which is stupid. And for the killer too no survivor shouldn't fell perfectly safe 1 meter away from the killer because they get a free escape no matter what. Close the hatch gg or survivor finds it gg no more bs standoffs.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    Condorloco_26 said:

    @Vietfox said:

    Yeah it was too long to read, in that case run whispers.
    That survivor might think you are using the other survivor as a bait, so i wouldn't say they are being toxic.

    Been playing for some time now, but I still don't know, so I'll ask: Do whispers trigger with a crawling or hooked survivor? What about lockers?

    @Condorloco_26
    Yeah it triggers with hooked survivors and on the dying state
  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Vietfox said:

    Been playing for some time now, but I still don't know, so I'll ask: Do whispers trigger with a crawling or hooked survivor? What about lockers?

    @Condorloco_26
    Yeah it triggers with hooked survivors and on the dying state

    Good to know. Thanks for answering.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Vietfox said:
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Vietfox said:

    Or just slug 

    Slugging is boring and most of the time it doesn't work against good survivors that don't care about saving the other guy they will just hide forever.

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    As i said: Whispers
    There was a time when i used to slug to get the 4K but now i don't care at all. I hook the 3rd survivor right away and go look for the last one.
    Gets the hatch? gg
    I get the 4K? gg

    No one is going to use a tracking just for the hatch. Everytime I play as survivor either my team is ok and I escape or I do all the generators and some idiot that doesn't do anything gets the hatch which is stupid. And for the killer too no survivor shouldn't fell perfectly safe 1 meter away from the killer because they get a free escape no matter what. Close the hatch gg or survivor finds it gg no more bs standoffs.

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    Breaking news, whispers can be used during the whole match, not only for the hatch.
    I never have standoffs because i just hit them, problem solved.
  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    How about powering the gates automatically when there's only 1 guy left? At least there'll be 3 options to escape and we won't get the stupid standoff thing.

  • ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 360

    Breaking news people who can track survivors don't need whispers and need other perks so the game doesn't end in 4 minutes. Also survivors should be dead if they're standing in fornt of the killer not perfectly safe and sound because of some black hole in the ground. Also it's called assymetrical balance you know what that means? The killer being very powerful and should be in power almsot at all times but csn be defeated with enough teamwork not just by 1 survivors and currently the 1 survivor has completely power in the hatch standoff which is stupid and looks really stupid for a "horror" game.

  • Peanits
    Peanits Dev Posts: 7,555

    @Condorloco_26 said:

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    How about powering the gates automatically when there's only 1 guy left? At least there'll be 3 options to escape and we won't get the stupid standoff thing.

    That would essentially just give the survivor a guaranteed escape. You can already do that now by hitting the survivor, or if you are the survivor, by powering generators once you figure out where the hatch is. If the killer goes to your generator after you power it, you just slip out the hatch. If they don't, you just keep powering generators and go for a gate, they can't guard the hatch and both gates at once.

  • Yoinked
    Yoinked Member Posts: 8
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    I agree there needs to be some sort of rework. Also appreciate laying that whole perspective out. However I feel like I need to just make one more statement on closing the hatch. I’ve played a round against legion where I needed to escape via hatch or gen and I had 1 gen left. To be honest I couldn’t even find the hatch I searched and I realized I think he was walking around it I think because he found me chased me but I lost him. I ran to the other side of the map, finished one whole gen and escaped by myself out of the exit gates. I think allowing the killer to at least close it once and if there’s 2 needed or 3 each gen will open up the hatch again forcing you to close it but maybe the closing animation is longer or maybe you can only close it just once. And if there was only 1 gen left regardless then if the survivor can successfully get a gen then they once again have 3 means of escape. It would make it a huge challenge for the survivor but also do it just right it’s definitly achievable. There’s even a perk that allows gens to progress faster if they’re a lone survivor so there are tools to allow a 1 v 1. Maybe it really would be too hard but on a large map the hens are far and you bait them and work around all the gens idk. It could make 1 v 1 situation very exciting and not a dull stand off. But like you said maybe it’s too hard but idk I don’t like the sound of that even as a 1v1 with a supernatural murderer shouldn’t be so easy anyways. 
  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Peanits said:

    That would essentially just give the survivor a guaranteed escape. You can already do that now by hitting the survivor, or if you are the survivor, by powering generators once you figure out where the hatch is. If the killer goes to your generator after you power it, you just slip out the hatch. If they don't, you just keep powering generators and go for a gate, they can't guard the hatch and both gates at once.

    Yes that's the intention. I mean, the hatch is already 95% (rough guess) a free exit anyway as you've mentioned, but at least there won't be any more face to face heavy squatting. Man give killers the chance of kicking the survivor's butt into the hatch at least.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    @Condorloco_26 said:

    @Peanits said:

    That would essentially just give the survivor a guaranteed escape. You can already do that now by hitting the survivor, or if you are the survivor, by powering generators once you figure out where the hatch is. If the killer goes to your generator after you power it, you just slip out the hatch. If they don't, you just keep powering generators and go for a gate, they can't guard the hatch and both gates at once.

    Yes that's the intention. I mean, the hatch is already 95% (rough guess) a free exit anyway as you've mentioned, but at least there won't be any more face to face heavy squatting. Man give killers the chance of kicking the survivor's butt into the hatch at least.

    Powering both gates would be another free escape for the last survivor just like we have now, that would be a pointless change.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    Breaking news people who can track survivors don't need whispers and need other perks so the game doesn't end in 4 minutes. Also survivors should be dead if they're standing in fornt of the killer not perfectly safe and sound because of some black hole in the ground. Also it's called assymetrical balance you know what that means? The killer being very powerful and should be in power almsot at all times but csn be defeated with enough teamwork not just by 1 survivors and currently the 1 survivor has completely power in the hatch standoff which is stupid and looks really stupid for a "horror" game.

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    Killer has the power to "kick" survivors from the match, use it.
  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Blueberry said:

    Powering both gates would be another free escape for the last survivor just like we have now, that would be a pointless change.

    Yeah, I know. But how about the other change, kicking a survivor's butt? That wouldn't be pointless.

  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Vietfox said:

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf
    Killer has the power to "kick" survivors from the match, use it.

    I agree completely and that's what I do. I'd like to really kick the ones waiting for you, acting up, though. I mean, there's already the animation for kicking gens.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,965

    @Yoinked said:
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    I agree there needs to be some sort of rework. Also appreciate laying that whole perspective out. However I feel like I need to just make one more statement on closing the hatch. I’ve played a round against legion where I needed to escape via hatch or gen and I had 1 gen left. To be honest I couldn’t even find the hatch I searched and I realized I think he was walking around it I think because he found me chased me but I lost him. I ran to the other side of the map, finished one whole gen and escaped by myself out of the exit gates. I think allowing the killer to at least close it once and if there’s 2 needed or 3 each gen will open up the hatch again forcing you to close it but maybe the closing animation is longer or maybe you can only close it just once. And if there was only 1 gen left regardless then if the survivor can successfully get a gen then they once again have 3 means of escape. It would make it a huge challenge for the survivor but also do it just right it’s definitly achievable. There’s even a perk that allows gens to progress faster if they’re a lone survivor so there are tools to allow a 1 v 1. Maybe it really would be too hard but on a large map the hens are far and you bait them and work around all the gens idk. It could make 1 v 1 situation very exciting and not a dull stand off. But like you said maybe it’s too hard but idk I don’t like the sound of that even as a 1v1 with a supernatural murderer shouldn’t be so easy anyways. 

    You pretty much proved Peanits point. The reason you were able to do that was because the killer was preoccupied guarding the hatch. If there was no hatch and the killer was patrolling generators there is precisely 0% chance that you would have escaped. If there was some kind of bonus generator repair speed for a lone survivor so that they could finish a generator start to finish in 20 seconds or less the maybe you would have a point.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    I like how killers only ever see it as a "free escape". You can tell these people dont play survivor much.

    Go play a game where someone disconnects a minute in. Now you know there's almost zero chance of you powering those exit gates. Sure there's the hatch, but only one of you gets it. Two people have to die. It's not a pleasant experience and it's quite tense. Some survivors even try to get each other killed.

    It's really not as rosy as you make it out to be.
  • Yoinked
    Yoinked Member Posts: 8
    The_Crusader said:
    I like how killers only ever see it as a "free escape". You can tell these people dont play survivor much.

    Go play a game where someone disconnects a minute in. Now you know there's almost zero chance of you powering those exit gates. Sure there's the hatch, but only one of you gets it. Two people have to die. It's not a pleasant experience and it's quite tense. Some survivors even try to get each other killed.

    It's really not as rosy as you make it out to be.
    I mentioned earlier I played survivor. I do feel like I’m a killer main as I’m better and I play it more but My survivor rank is only 13 rn and you also have to take rank reset into account. So I play survivor and even then I still feel it as a free escape sometimes as I know I’m safe near the hatch. It just seems odd to me in general whether I’m surviving or killing 
  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    Use left behind and other perks that are designs do speed up gens if your last man standing
  • DwightsLifeMatters
    DwightsLifeMatters Member Posts: 1,649
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    The thing is, one of the devs mentioned one idea about a new endgame mechanic (Aura revealed, x seconds intense chase and after that exits get open automatically) but they are so damn slow to even try it in a PTB. Im 100% convinced that this idea is extremely much better, fair and more fun than what we currently have. 
  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @The_Crusader said:
    I like how killers only ever see it as a "free escape". You can tell these people dont play survivor much.

    Go play a game where someone disconnects a minute in. Now you know there's almost zero chance of you powering those exit gates. Sure there's the hatch, but only one of you gets it. Two people have to die. It's not a pleasant experience and it's quite tense. Some survivors even try to get each other killed.

    It's really not as rosy as you make it out to be.

    You're describing it exactly as a survival horror game should make it feel, IMO.

  • Peanits
    Peanits Dev Posts: 7,555

    @redsopine01 said:
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    Use left behind and other perks that are designs do speed up gens if your last man standing

    That's all well and good until you finish the first generator, and then the killer knows exactly where you are.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Condorloco_26 said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    I like how killers only ever see it as a "free escape". You can tell these people dont play survivor much.

    Go play a game where someone disconnects a minute in. Now you know there's almost zero chance of you powering those exit gates. Sure there's the hatch, but only one of you gets it. Two people have to die. It's not a pleasant experience and it's quite tense. Some survivors even try to get each other killed.

    It's really not as rosy as you make it out to be.

    You're describing it exactly as a survival horror game should make it feel, IMO.

    And that's how most horror movies go. One barely escapes and everyone else dies.
  • M2Fream
    M2Fream Member Posts: 288
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally, they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple of miles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eyeshot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @M2Fream said:

    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer

    You're not entitled to a 4th kill and need to get over that sense of entitlement, if you want that 4th kill slug the 3rd or hook them enar where the hatch will spawn. The killer has options right now but you don't want to use them and instead want a free kill.

  • M2Fream
    M2Fream Member Posts: 288
    powerbats said:

    @M2Fream said:

    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer

    You're not entitled to a 4th kill and need to get over that sense of entitlement, if you want that 4th kill slug the 3rd or hook them enar where the hatch will spawn. The killer has options right now but you don't want to use them and instead want a free kill.

    I never said that. It just doesn't seem fair for me to earn a 3k and then be stopped from a 4k by an unbalanced game mechanic that is WELL KNOWN AND GENERALLY AGREED TO BE A POOR DESIGN CHOICE.

    Anyway, someone could just at easily say you don't deserve a free escape...
  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    M2Fream said:
    powerbats said:

    @M2Fream said:

    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer

    You're not entitled to a 4th kill and need to get over that sense of entitlement, if you want that 4th kill slug the 3rd or hook them enar where the hatch will spawn. The killer has options right now but you don't want to use them and instead want a free kill.

    I never said that. It just doesn't seem fair for me to earn a 3k and then be stopped from a 4k by an unbalanced game mechanic that is WELL KNOWN AND GENERALLY AGREED TO BE A POOR DESIGN CHOICE.

    Anyway, someone could just at easily say you don't deserve a free escape...
    Who is "you" though?

    As a team the survivors lose. Without a key and all gens done the survivorS aren't making it out.

    Who is the free escape for? If its for player 2 then what use is that to me? Or player 3? Or player 4?

    Remember only 1 survivor gets the hatch. The rest have to die.
  • Yoinked
    Yoinked Member Posts: 8
    M2Fream said:
    powerbats said:

    @M2Fream said:

    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer

    You're not entitled to a 4th kill and need to get over that sense of entitlement, if you want that 4th kill slug the 3rd or hook them enar where the hatch will spawn. The killer has options right now but you don't want to use them and instead want a free kill.

    I never said that. It just doesn't seem fair for me to earn a 3k and then be stopped from a 4k by an unbalanced game mechanic that is WELL KNOWN AND GENERALLY AGREED TO BE A POOR DESIGN CHOICE.

    Anyway, someone could just at easily say you don't deserve a free escape...
    The design is meh and it has its flaws like the stand off for example but oh well at least just deal with it survivors really need the mechanical crutch against tough killers they can’t escape from otherwise. I mean I have no issues with it when I’m survivor that’s for sure. Like he said the team as a whole loses so yanno. But I solo queue anyways lol I always try and save teammates but I’ll always have my back first before the others.
  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301
    edited December 2018

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    In one word: Death-Efficiency

    YW (:

  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Peanits said:

    @redsopine01 said:
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    Use left behind and other perks that are designs do speed up gens if your last man standing

    That's all well and good until you finish the first generator, and then the killer knows exactly where you are.

    I've been last man in games before and I've done gens like that first few survivor games had a wraith in one with 1-3 gens left I forgot anyway I managed to power the gates without being found and he only found me as I was working on a gate with the buzzer leading to my first hatch escape because he was camping it till the gates powerd most tryhard killers will always guard the hatch unless the gates are powerd then they patrol all 3 meaning you have a chance to escape
  • ReneAensland
    ReneAensland Member Posts: 838

    I have a genius idea for the Hatch.
    It makes the mechanic better, I hope.

  • ba_tetsuo
    ba_tetsuo Member Posts: 330

    Easy fix for the hatch situation:
    Killer finds it first, let him kick it shut, fade to black, cut to killer mori'ing survivor.

    Survivor finds it first, jumps out, fade to black, cut to killer barely missing survivor jump through.

    Either way, killer gets credit for a 4k, because he killed 3, and the entity showed the final survivor mercy. Killer didn't screw up, it was the entity being merciful.

    Either way, survivor gets points for surviving to the end. Treat it as if the survivor survived. They did their job. Played it safe, avoided the killer, and they get credit for surviving.

    This does away with the hatch stand off, rewards the survivor for surviving, and the killer for killing.

    The hatch is already an out for survivors playing poorly as a team, why should the killer be punished because they did well?

    Yea, it makes the endgame meaning less, but it already is meaningless. Once the hatch opens, unless the survivor is an absolute idiot, they escape. This just gives the killer the same rewards the survivor already gets.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    Or just slug 

    DC?

  • Dokta_Carter
    Dokta_Carter Member Posts: 614
    Yoinked said:
    Peanits said:

    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    I agree there needs to be some sort of rework. Also appreciate laying that whole perspective out. However I feel like I need to just make one more statement on closing the hatch. I’ve played a round against legion where I needed to escape via hatch or gen and I had 1 gen left. To be honest I couldn’t even find the hatch I searched and I realized I think he was walking around it I think because he found me chased me but I lost him. I ran to the other side of the map, finished one whole gen and escaped by myself out of the exit gates. I think allowing the killer to at least close it once and if there’s 2 needed or 3 each gen will open up the hatch again forcing you to close it but maybe the closing animation is longer or maybe you can only close it just once. And if there was only 1 gen left regardless then if the survivor can successfully get a gen then they once again have 3 means of escape. It would make it a huge challenge for the survivor but also do it just right it’s definitly achievable. There’s even a perk that allows gens to progress faster if they’re a lone survivor so there are tools to allow a 1 v 1. Maybe it really would be too hard but on a large map the hens are far and you bait them and work around all the gens idk. It could make 1 v 1 situation very exciting and not a dull stand off. But like you said maybe it’s too hard but idk I don’t like the sound of that even as a 1v1 with a supernatural murderer shouldn’t be so easy anyways. 
    I would like to suggest, if the hatch is closed, the survivor should be able to skill check it open. Might not be 100% smart but it can make it fair when a killer shuts the hatch, the survivor(with out key) should be able to "pry it open" if it was opened due to being last surivor standing. That way the survivor can "mind game" the killer failing a gen then sneak over and skill check it open.

    And to those whom say instant kill on survivor on sealing. I wpuld think that ruins the qhole... Cat and mouse feel the game has. At leaat give em a chance to open the gates. 
  • Dokta_Carter
    Dokta_Carter Member Posts: 614
    edited December 2018
    Master said:

    @Vietfox said:
    Or just slug 

    DC?

    I just dont understand people(even in SWF) dcing due to slug. Maybe if be cool with it if lets say. Said person has P3 everything. But in most cases, why say nah to bp? If i was in a SWF and my bud d/c for a hatch? I'd chew them out. A single escape is not a win if it costs your or your buddys to lose BP. I also heard its bannable so... Why risk it?
  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,965

    @M2Fream said:
    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer

    Explain how.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @M2Fream said:
    After the killer closes the hatch, the match ends.
    It counts as a kill for the killer and death for the survivor. Seems about as fair as it is right now for the killer

    Explain how.

    If the Killer finds the hatch first, they have to abandon it immediately, lest the Survivor see them and figure out they found it. That's because hatch stand-offs favor the Survivor. If they abandon it, chances are the Survivor is gonna find it befire they can be downed and hooked.
    If the Survivor finds the hatch first, they can either jump in immediately or force a stand-off. Stand-offs, as I mentioned above, favor the Survivor.
    To summarize: at the moment, if the Killer finds the hatch first, they're at a disadvantage. If the Survivor finds the hatch first, the Killer is still at a disadvantage.

    If the Killer could close the hatch in the manner @M2Fream described, then whoever found it first would have the advantage. Survivors would also be unlikely to try to force a stand-off (unlike now, where they sometimes do so just to troll Killers).

  • Yoinked
    Yoinked Member Posts: 8
    thesuicidefox said:

    @Yoinked said:
    I do slug like I said in the op. I’ve had survivors let the other bleed out while they hide away somewhere. The worst is when they run the whole ninja perk build (UE, QnQ, etc.) because there’s no way to track them.There’s a lot of toxic survivors that will really just let their teammate take the fall so they can escape.

    Because survivors should just be idiots and basically kill themselves to save someone that is also going to die anyway? LOL

    If you slug to counter hatch, they can not save to counter the slug. You're asking for guaranteed 4k when you didn't earn it. Maybe stop camping the slug and go look for the other guy. If he gets up... so what, now you know they are both in the same area and neither can leave yet.

    I swear killers asking for hand outs. Just take the 3k, is it really that big of a deal?

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:
    No one is going to use a tracking just for the hatch. Everytime I play as survivor either my team is ok and I escape or I do all the generators and some idiot that doesn't do anything gets the hatch which is stupid. And for the killer too no survivor shouldn't fell perfectly safe 1 meter away from the killer because they get a free escape no matter what. Close the hatch gg or survivor finds it gg no more bs standoffs.

    Someone has no clue how to actually use Whispers.

    Oh hey I didn’t see this. Lol it’s funny how you assume I camp. Like I said about the ninja thing he was just a ninja Claudette and I couldn’t find him no matter where I went. Oof man these survivor mans I feel are salty from their own experiences with some other killers and just assume that all killers must camp the slugged player. Other guy was just off somewhere I retract what I say about being toxic because I guess it is a legit tactic I just thought he was toxic from the survivors perspective because the guy that got down unhooked him previously they weren’t friends so there’s no com. But ya it just took a lot of time survivors bleed out for so long lol
  • Warlock_2020
    Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,867

    I've played killer 90% of my time in this game and have never, ever had a hatch stand-off. Why? Because it is not worth it. I either drop them before the hatch and hook them, or they got away. Does not bother me. The only time I work for that 4th one for sure is when I know that survivor has done nothing all game. I hate to see those leeches get the hatch, but I won't do a standoff.

  • scorpio
    scorpio Member Posts: 364

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think you'll find many people who will tell you that the hatch is great, but let's just explore the alternative for a second.

    So you close the hatch. Now what?

    The survivor needs to power up to three generators as the killer patrols them. You can very easily patrol an entire map in 80 seconds (the time it takes for that one survivor to fix a generator), and if you hear that a generator has progressed, you'll know the survivor is around. For the survivor, touching a generator is suicide. It's a "come kill me" alarm. In a normal game, this is no big deal, you get chased, other people keep fixing generators and then maybe you get saved. When you're the last survivor, that's it, that's game over.

    So naturally they would wait for the perfect opportunity, where they can magically completely fix a generator before the killer can return, except that opportunity never comes. If they attempt to fix a generator, they're dead. Queue the hide and seek world championship. They have no reason to try to escape because trying to escape is actually trying to die faster. They wouldn't be griefing either because by definition they are just trying to win.

    I'm totally down for an end-game rework, but closing the hatch alone would not quite work. Even if it powers the gates and allows the survivors to work on either one, it would be pretty much the same situation. Some gates spawn just a couple tiles away from each other, making them incredibly easy to patrol. On some occasions, they even spawn in eye shot of each other, so you could literally stand in front of one and stare at the other. If the survivor dares to touch them, they get a red "come kill me" light on them too.

    TL;DR: It's great on paper, but it wouldn't quite work in practice. That is why the hatch change didn't go through.

    A survivor could easily escape out one exit while the killer is at the other. I don't care how close the gates are, VERY few killers would be able to travel from one to the other fast enough. And isn't it kind of your guys' fault the exits can spawn next to each other anyway? So why don't you fix that and allow the killer to close the hatch which then opens the exit gates. At least this gives them both a chance without just screwing one of them over really hard like the current or proposed systems do.

  • scorpio
    scorpio Member Posts: 364
    edited December 2018

    @The_Crusader said:
    I like how killers only ever see it as a "free escape". You can tell these people dont play survivor much.

    Go play a game where someone disconnects a minute in. Now you know there's almost zero chance of you powering those exit gates. Sure there's the hatch, but only one of you gets it. Two people have to die. It's not a pleasant experience and it's quite tense. Some survivors even try to get each other killed.

    It's really not as rosy as you make it out to be.

    Okay but in most games there are 4 survivors doing gens incredibly fast and then either 3 escape or some number are killed and some escape and there is one survivor left crawling around the map while the killer tries to find them or stands at the hatch, then the survivor comes to the hatch and teabags there for 10 minutes until the killer gives up and hits them. This survivor didn't have to do anything great all match, they just have to hide a lot/wait for their teammates to leave. The killer can have a great game and 3k but then lose the 4k because of this stupid mechanic, and it also rewards survivor who hide while their teammate is dying on the ground or hook so they can get hatch instead of going for the heal or save. And slugging the last 2 people isn't fun at all for killers. It's just not. It isn't fair at all as it is. It needs a rework in some fashion to be fair to both sides and not unfairly favor one or the other.