Deeply concerned with the state of the game right now.

Ill start by saying Im a 50/50 player, I like playing survivor with a friend or 2, and i like playing Killer when i have no one to play with.

My concerns come from both sides because to me right now, DBD as a whole is rather disgusting to play. At least for me but having read forum posts here lately, i know it is for many of you too.

Survivor Issues

The game has turned into a toxic tunnel and camp fest. I would say im medium to high MMR. Ive always considered myself maybe an old purple rank survivor. Every single game has turned into a game with endless tunnelling. I wish that was an exaggeration. When im playing solo, quite frankly i dont care, ill pop on with gens, ill save as and when i can. But when with friends obviously you want to save them and to see them tunnelled out of the game, even when i put myself in the way, or go down for them. (Sometimes the killers dont even pick me up and continue the tunnel and i get out)

What pains me to admit it is, because i play 50/50, i understand why killers camp and tunnel. It is a viable way to play imo, but it shouldnt be.

A joint problem to this seems to be the new SBMM. Im not sure why but when im solo or playing with a friend, At least two other survivors are quite frankly...bad. I try to check hours before and most seem to be at least 600 hours but they just go down so quickly, they cannot loop, They dont do gens, If they hear the slightest hint of a terror radius they run 50 yards away and only come back when the killers downed the person they were chasing.

One horror story recently was on a springwood map. The killer managed to kill my friend when we had 1 gen to go. 1 other survivor hadnt been hooked yet, the other on 1 hook. Me with no hooks. Im on a gen upstairs in the house, the killer had tinkerer so knew id got it close to popping, i managed to get it to maybe 90%. He chased me, and i looped for around 4 minutes. The killer wasnt that great, was obviously triggered and even stopped using his power because i could mind game him too well. He managed to hit me once. But not again. All the time im wondering...why is that last gen not popping. The killer finally gave up, maybe they wondered what the hell was going on aswell. But they gave up and left. Still injured i ran around to the first gen. 0% Progress. I thought ok lets go to the house gen cause the pallets here were broken. On the way i passed the 2nd gen. 0% Progress. Made it back to the house, was around 70%. The killer didnt kick that gen when chasing me and obviously went back there first so it regressed while i was making my way back to it. 2 other survivors did NOTHING for 4 whole minutes. Everyone ended up dying because i gave up, i wasnt going to loop anymore for these people with a combined 1.1k hours between them. And this is not an anomoly anymore. This has happened at least twice a week since SBMM came in. Survivors are now so terrified of not surviving they resort to doing nothing and hoping they can get the hatch. Total BP for that match at the end was me on around 25K, my friend who had died 10 minutes earlier on 18K and the other 2 around 10K. Im a game that lasted around 20 minutes.

SBMM seems to have caused so many issues and yet i am still in favour of it as a MM system. We just need more clarity. What constitutes a win? What makes your MMR go up? Do you get better MMR just for escaping than doing gens and totems? This IMO needs to be addressed because im so bored of being put with survivors who just refuse to play the game and care so much about escaping with 10K BP than anything else.


Killer Issues

This may just be my experience but im constantly put with survivors who gen rush endlessly. If i play anti gen rush perks, they have that countered. Ruin/Undying? They have small game & counterforce. Corrupt Intervention? Hide for 2 minutes in the corners. < (This happens a lot, i patrol the open gens yet not one gets started until the 2 mins are up) Every game becomes a 3 gen game. Theres no variety. If i dont tunnel or camp, i have to 3 gen and hope they dont have a toolbox.

Safe pallets are a huge issue atm. There just seems to be far too many safe pallets on a map. As a survivor i usually prefer to run a loop using windows so the pallets get saved, but as killer, its just pallet drop over and over because the meta atm is hold W against any killer that isnt Blight, Nurse or Spirit.

Again, may just be a me issue but i am consistently put with 3 or 4 man SWF groups. Im fine with it now and again but these are the reasons so many killers just tunnel and camp now. I've resorted to this quite a lot lately, sometimes it works, usually it doesnt because the survivors are too good for me. Yet SBMM does not put me with people on my level. Before SBMM id average a 3k per game. Now its a 1k...if that sometimes.

I honestly believe the devs are out of touch with their playerbase on the whole "what constitutes a win" topic. Its generally thought that its balanced around 2 kills and 2 survive. Yet very few killers think this is the case. Especially when the games have been extremely stressful.

Closing Thoughts

The game right now is pandered to a 3 or 4 man SWF group. Everything favours this. Solo survivors are at a huge disadvantage atm because they will usually be put with potato survivors. 2 man SWF's usually get put with 2 others who care more about getting out at any cost, than helping their team. Killers are at a disadvantage because its just too stressful to play against 3 or 4 man teams without resorting to tunnelling, camping or slugging, which usually then resorts in insults and toxicity post game.

Survivors wont like this, but ive always liked the idea of survivors not relying so much on their perks so much as their gameplay. Me and 3 others used to do a challenge for ourselves in which we couldn't use a perk if someone else was using it, and it was actually fun. It made us think outside the box and use our heads more. Killers also noticed it and asked why we wasnt all running DH/DS/BT and they said it was refreshing to see. There are over 100 survivor perks in the game now. Yet we see the same ones every game from every survivor unless they're trying to do a challenge. So a suggestion here is, if you're in a group, you need to work out who gets what perk. (Though this will not count for solo survivors and while were at it, make kindred baseline) Its varied, adds more challenge and makes people not rely on the same meta. I know this will never happen though.

Another idea is less perk per SWF. If you're solo, you get 4 perk sots. if a 2 man , 3 perk slots, in a 3 man, 2 perk slots each, 4k swf, 1 perk slot each.

An argument against that from survivors will be that it ruins their fun and experience. Well, being in a 4k will 9/10 ruin a killers experience, so if you dont care about that, no one should care about you.

I honestly believe there would be a lot less tunnelling and camping than there is now if there was some nerf to 3/4 man SWF. I didnt notice much of it pre SBMM. I even stopped taking DS since 2020 because it just didnt happen that often.

Comments

  • DrVeloxcity
    DrVeloxcity Member Posts: 301

    Can't agree with you here. I appreciate your perspectives, but a lot of this is just personal experiences you've had while playing the game.

    The fact is that you'll face different playstyles against different players, but to generalize that all SWF's are high MMR or all killers will tunnel/camp is an over-exaggeration.

    Sure it's a way to play that is not fun for survivors, and killers do occasionally have completely valid reasons to want to do so, BUT, this does not happen every game.

    One unique thing about DBD is that every match will be slightly different in one way or more. So, to be honest it just seems like you've had rough luck in your matches.

    I personally think DBD is currently in a much better state than it was in June and July, around when the Resident Evil chapter released. Yeah, the game still has tons of performance issues, but the game is getting a bit better in that regard. Around June/July/August, however, the game was unplayable on console.

  • R2k
    R2k Member Posts: 1,069

    I'm sorry but PvP games are and will be always stressful. U can't just come into PvP and ask other side to wait until u get enough fun. It's either they beat u or u beat them, unless u are matched with killer/survivors u can dance around and end up with farming BP.

    As for MMR I'm not sure how exactly much kills u need (3 or 4) to rise your MMR, but for survivors escape counts as win, so basic goals are most important.

    If u still have some warm feelings about game, don't bother about MMR and ranking, play survivor with your friends. Playing survivor is more chill and less stressful than playing killer. There is no hurry and until killer kills 2 of u, its u who pressure killer not otherwise.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Tunnel & Gen rush is 2 ways road. But for me its Tunnel causing the Gen rush in the start.


    When Killer makes mistake early & Survivors are winning:

    Often they leave the last Gen and start to toy with Killer (as Trapper main with no slowdown, I have these alot). Sometimes 2 hooks into 4k.

    Killer can have end game build Noed, BW, No way out, Remember me, Rancor.

    When Survivors make mistake early & Killer is winning:

    3-4k

    Its understandable for Survivors rush Gen really hard, they dont know if their team mate makes early mistake, or/and Killer will tunnel them.


    I barely care about Gen when I play Killer, because I have Noed back me up. But soon Boon come into the game...

  • Konnor24
    Konnor24 Member Posts: 184

    These personal experiences are also happening to a LOT of other players. Thats why i even made this thread. Because of what ive seen other people say. I mean there are people on page 1 right now complaining about the same things (especially with SBMM) But they're just personal experiences....

    And the uniqueness that you're talking about well, im just not seeing it. 95% of games are the same. I get put with survs with combined hours of 15-25k and i run around the map either being bullied or just waste my time. Gens get done in a few minutes. I dont get put against people at my level after getting 6 kills in 15 games. Thats not unique pal, thats the same old crap every game. I wouldnt mind so much if i saw something different, but i dont, and many others dont either.

    Yes PVP games will be stressful, however ive been playing this game since Freddy came out which is...November 2017? Ive never been this stressed. Ive never been this irritated. Ive never had a 13 game run where i got 6 kills out of a possible 60.

    Ive never had to deal with this much tunnelling and camping. Ive gotten the odd one, im not saying it never existed, it did, but nowhere near as much as virtually every single game. You're not understanding what im saying at all to be quite honest.

    Playing survivor is less stressful yes, but its not more fun when your friends are being tunnelled so much that they rage quit and then you're back to playing alone. So thank you for the advice, but quite frankly, its easy to sit there and say that but you're not experiencing the utter frustration of it.

    Agreed. They will never both happen. I'd be all for an early game collapse as they spoke about but my faith in BHVR has waned so much i doubt they'd impliment it correctly.

    If i tunnel or camp its because 2-3 gens have popped very quickly. When playing survivor, because im in an swf one is always gonna be going for a save if they're camping because we're friends and we prefer that to being sweaty enough to just want to survive. But its just frustrating and makes us not want to play.

    I dont play with noed either. I dont like it as a survivor so i dont play with it as a killer. What sucks is that it does feel like killers are being forced to play the ways i hate them playing when im a survivor.

  • Astrian
    Astrian Member Posts: 320

    You get tunneled because you're the weakest link


    You get genrushed because you don't know how to apply pressure to gens


    In conclusion, you're bad.

  • Konnor24
    Konnor24 Member Posts: 184
    edited September 2021

    Its not me thats getting tunneled. Its everyone. First to be hooked gets tunnelled. 9/10 that isnt me. So nice try

    I never had a problem applying pressure to gens before SBMM....Once again. Nice try.

    In conclusion, try harder to troll, maybe think it through next time.

    Also if im that bad, then surely SBMM should be moving me down to match players with my "bad" skill set.

  • Astrian
    Astrian Member Posts: 320
    edited September 2021

    Also if im that bad, then surely SBMM should be moving me down to match players with my "bad" skill set.

    It is, you're playing with people constantly getting tunneled yes?

    I'm not, I would say I'm at a pretty high skillbracket considering all my teammates with a few rare exceptions are great.


    They don't get tunneled, when the killer attempts it they usually have borrowed or know how to get out of that situation. Can loop decently well. Killers perform well as well, it's generally a good time. Only time I got camped/tunneled repeatedly was when SBMM first started... which was when everybody was at the same or similar mmr... and... get the picture?


    You're playing with people constantly "genrushing?"

    I'm not, and I also play with corrupt intervention often on Trickster and Huntress. I never have this problem of not being able to find anybody or getting genrushed because I actually know how to apply pressure to gens. Everybody gets injured, I drop chases when they aren't advantageous for me. I just play the game well.


    Too many safe pallets? Why are you taking chases in the safe pallets then? Go somewhere else, let them be in safe pallet land and go kill the people outside of it. It's a shockingly simple solution to a shockingly simple problem.


    Your purple rank before MMR doesn't mean anything. Anybody in red ranks can tell you that solo survivor was hell because the worst of DBD got into those ranks just by playing the game without actually being decent in it.

    The only reason you think I'm trolling is because I'm not pampering you or fitting into your sphere of pity. You are bad and are getting paired with equally bad players. End of story.

  • Konnor24
    Konnor24 Member Posts: 184

    That "bad" comment was in reference to killer games. Im still facing survs with 5k+ hours each game, in 3-4 man groups who know how to loop extremely well. Nothing changes. Over 100 games since SBMM.

    Survivor side doesnt make much sense either. Everyone is being tunnelled, and i can still survive most games because i can loop. And because i can loop, my friends do the gens. So you've not read/understood what i said at all.

    And if you check back over the past 2-3 weeks on this forum you will find over 100 replies to similar topics in which they state yes, killers are tunnelling everyone and anyone now. Even killers are admitting it. I come here every day so for you to just say im bad because you saw my post today but not the 100s of others, well, you can live in your own world there.

    Good for you that you're not being tunnelled. Many others are. Everyone ive spoken to on my friends list and in discord servers have also stated the increase in killer tunnelling. So i guess you're a lucky one.

    I used to play with corrupt intervention pre SBMM. It was useless for me. almost every game survivors just hid until the 2 minutes were up. Sometimes i found, sometimes i didnt. But thats the risk with CI. If survs are just gonna hide for the 2 minutes, you can risk not patrolling the open gens, but they're usually in VC so if they hear/see me where they're hiding, they can tell their team and they popped out to do the open gens.

    Too many safe pallets indicates theres TOO MANY SAFE PALLETS. So your solution is. Start a chase, if they go to a safe pallet, drop the chase, start another. Doesnt account for the survivors who are experienced and straight away run to the nearest safe pallet. Seriously, everything you are trying to discredit from me can be discredited from you. You're talking as if you're playing against bots yet you say you're a high rank MMR? Isnt adding up as you dont seem to understand how experienced 4 stack survivors with VC work against you.

    I wasnt purple rank before MMR. This again is you reading something and not understanding. I was consistently red rank, usually rank 1 or 2. Im saying i would class myself as a purple rank, if that system was still around because i dont think im good enough for red ranks, but i know im better than green. Its not hard to understand but you have gone out of your way to misread and not understand anything just to forumlate a really stupid argument .

    The others didnt pamper me and they dont agree with me. Yet i didnt call them trolls. You offer nothing constructive. The others who replied to this topic did. Whether i agree or not, they still were constructive. Your first reply was pure stupidity, and your second while trying to be constructive is filled with solutions that are either easily countered, ive already done and were countered, or just pure nonsense.

    Most of what i've said Nototzdarva has echoed in previous videos/streams. I suppose hes just bad aswell?

  • Kayleepaige
    Kayleepaige Member Posts: 42

    Are you serious with that? Everything you just said screams to me that you dont play killer. Its widely known that there are issues with gen rushing right now, just scroll through the past few days on this forum or watch some top killer streamers and they will tell you.

    And you aint as good as you think you are if you;re having such easy games. Maybe on your smurf account. There are too many safe pallets and there is so much gen rushing and tunnelling right now though i cant say i seen much camping only proxy camping.

  • Astrian
    Astrian Member Posts: 320

    So? I don't play killer AND I have a smurf account?



    Damn I'm really dedicated to not playing killer

  • Kayleepaige
    Kayleepaige Member Posts: 42

    Looking through your history its obvious you're a survivor main and anti killer considering you argue whenever a killer mentions anything on their mind.

  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401
    edited September 2021


    This meta game encourages gen rush and tunnel unfortunetely. Most powerfull strat is the less funny strat (bad game design). Most of the people would prefer be more focused on chases. Even some killers just refuse to use tunnel intentionally although they know is always the best strat. I try to evade it as killer and only use it if I´m in trouble so I can get pressure back.


    So as u say, devs should slow down surv scapes, punish camp tunnel, and reward chases (BBQ basekit, increased movement speed for killer when not in chase, DS basekit only working until EGC,....). Idk, something like that.

  • Konnor24
    Konnor24 Member Posts: 184

    Ive tried to avoid tunnelling but its just becoming more and more necessary. Which is also why i understand why killers do it. Its just very unfun on both sides.

    I agree with the changes apart from BBQ and DS. Maybe they were just bad picks though. I believe Kindred should be Baseline, whether SWF or solo. Even when im a killer i get annoyed at survs who dont try and save (and thats when im not camping). BBQ and DS are just too strong of a perk to have baseline.

  • Astrian
    Astrian Member Posts: 320

    Alright, since you wanna use my history as an argument, lets go through it then.


    We can ignore the fact that you're reinforcing your preconceived conclusion about based off of cherry picking evidence that fits your narrative. But just so you already know, you've lost before I even have to go into my history, this is just a victory lap at this point.



    Yesterday I edited a post I made about the new update that's been coming out:

    I specifically said:

    The only bad part about this update is the Deathslinger nerf and maybe Spirit kicking up dust. That Deathslinger nerf goes way too hard, you gotta give my boy something to compensate for cutting off all his arms and legs, that puny speedbuff while aiming down sight is nothing.

    I don't like the Spirit kicking up dust while using her power, I think the directional power is plenty to offset how strong she is. I hope this doesn't make it to the final update but we'll see, maybe it's warranted.

    Damn I'm so anti-killer I'm using reverse psychology on BHVR to convince them to nerf Spirit and Deathslinger even more than they already have.


    We should also ignore this comment I made on the 24th where I said Trapper got one of the fattest buffs he's gotten since release which is 100% true btw.

    Trapper legit got one of the fattest buffs he's gotten in the 5 years of this game existing


    Boo-Hoo Spirit players will have to try a little bit harder and use 2% of their power instead of 1%.

    Let's also ignore the fact that this is in response to a comment complaining that Killers are getting nerfed and Survivors are getting buffed, in a patch where Pig, the worst killer in the game got buffed hard along with many other killers' addons.


    If you're going to use that last part as evidence to your narrative, then I'd love to see you try to argue that Spirit did not deserve a nerf. I'd love to hear that argument go down.





    But yeah, I don't play killer. In fact I'm anti Killer still.


    There's also this comment I made on the 7th where I commented on how trash Pinhead's chains are and that they should be buffed.

    The chains being hard to aim is fine, they should be hard to aim.

    The problem is that even if you land them, they suck. Survivors can still vault windows, pallets, drop pallets. Like what's the point? I don't see much of a reason to use them outside of very few situations.


    Survivors finding the box is way too easy. I feel like I hardly get any time with the chains fully built up until it solved, hell they find it way earlier than that too.


    Pinhead seems bottom tier, easily. Not the worst killer but still, it's a shame.

    And I know what you're thinking and you're right. I am so anti-killer, I want them to buff Pinhead so I can become a better survivor main and flex my looping muscles even harder.

    It's definitely not because I've played Pinhead and know he's trash from first hand experience, of course not.







    God I'm so devious. They should just lock my killer menu away in game since I'm not going to use it anyway. Wouldn't it be easier to assume that I just like making fun of dumb people after a new patch is announced rather than the fact that I'm anti one side or the other? You'd be surprised how often the simpler answer is the correct one.

  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401

    But if you wanna encourage chase instead of camp tunnel u also have to reward killers in game, not just with a rep + and kind words on end game chat.


    Watching auras of survivors would be a good motivation to start a chase, and also a movement speed buff when they come out of the hook area (this would help a lot to m1 killers) . And this way camping becomes more improbable. If u also give ds base kit (till EGC), killers will avoid tunnel because of the 100% stun chance.


    With these changes killers wouldn't spend much time on searching hidden survs, and we would have many more chases (most fun part of the game). I think it would be a win win.

  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401

    At the beggining i thought Kindred should be basekit also, and that it could help with camptunnel.


    And it's a chance. But I just noticed that on tournaments (where everybody plays optimal and they have "communication kindred", killer still proxy camp tunnel and the other guys focus on repair.


    So it made me think that camp tunnel is the most powerful strat in game for killer. That's why they use it although is not fun.


    So the real solution is making it less effective and giving killers a good strat that encourage them to distribute hooks. Other idea I had is modify efficiency of survs repairing generators. (4 survs remaining - 90 % speed, 3 surv - 115 % speed progression, 2 survs - 140 %).


    In conclussion, although kindred would be a good addition for solo q, I think it wouldn't finish with the current meta of gen rush vs tunnel.

  • Irisora
    Irisora Member Posts: 1,442

    I will be more concerned if the boon perks are released just like in the ptb without serious tweak downs. The 28 m radius its insane, it should be 10 at most. 28m its absolutely broken.

  • kosmi
    kosmi Member Posts: 363

    Don't know what is with mmr good or bad. But one thing is certeain every single 5k+ ssurv is toxic as hell. If they die they swear everything to you, if they win they again swear. One thing is for sure for swf too many safe pallets...

  • Konnor24
    Konnor24 Member Posts: 184

    Oh no dont get me wrong, i just think kindred should be baseline. Nothing to do with gen rushing or meta. It would just help the solo survivor who plays at a bit of a disadvantage. I used to play solo, i dont anymore, and i know how annoying it can be because i have no communication. Nothing more annoying than running over to unhook for ages only for someone else to get there as i do. Wastes so much time whereas with kindred or in a group that wouldnt happen.


    I played surv on the PTB with friends and yes, it can be a nightmare for them. I didnt go down once, and most just ran to a boon they knew had the no scratch mark totem up. The healing around the other boon is extremely fast its not even funny. Though we was having fun, me and a friend (who is very survivor biased) said to each other this HAS to be nerfed cause the healing is far too quick. Either that or make it so the boon totems cant be lit again after the first.

    Yeah thats my experience too. Even when they mess up and make a mistake, its everyone elses fault but theirs. And they stay after the match for 15 minutes even when solo just to cry and insult. Yet if they get out then they also just spend ages in the lobby gloating and calling you bad. And yes, im glad you agree theres far too many safe pallets. Far too many.

    @Astrian I think you can give it up now pal. We have a differeing opinion, one that many here and in other threads share with me so its great you have such amazing games with your super skill. But posting an essay to someone because they said you seem survivor biased from other posts is a bit much. You're coming across as a triggered little child. Best to move on from this topic, we wont agree so posting a long defence of your past doesnt help move this topic forward. Thanks

  • NOEDENJOYER
    NOEDENJOYER Member Posts: 237

    Survivors rush gens and bring DS/BT/UB/DH (etc) to counter tunnelling, camping, slugging and regression perks.

    Killers tunnel, camp, slug and bring regression perks to counter gen rushing.

    It's a vicious cycle where in high MMR, both sides need the most powerful perks to just stand a chance, creating a stale meta. No one will deviate from the meta, because you'll be punished. No DS? Tunnelled out in 2 minutes. No ruin? Gens are all done in 4 minutes.

    It's pretty sad, high MMR DBD is crazily unbalanced, thankfully its mostly a casual playerbase.

  • Konnor24
    Konnor24 Member Posts: 184

    Sadly im not seeing much of the casual playerbase. I know its there, but i just dont see it anymore. Even with ruin now it can still be a gen rush because a lot of SWF's at least one member will run counterforce and itll be gone in no time at all. And usually my hex's are in places out in the open or tucked away far away from more than 1 gen so protecting that means i never see 5 other gens anyway.