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Question with the changes to keys and hatch, what is the point of keys?
I understand that keys are really strong and a nerf is needed. I thought however they would make it so only one person could use it or maybe allow you to instantly open an exit gate once they are powered. So now the hatch will not spawn unless you are the last survivor. So what is the point.
First everybody must either be dead or left.
Second the exit gate has to be either powered by killer closing hatch or by everybody leaving. giving you three minutes maximum to find it
Third to get any real value the killer must find the hatch first because the hatch will still spawn open.
So to use a key your whole team must die, then the killer has to find the hatch and then close it. you then have to choose to search the map for hatch with 3 minutes, instead of just opening a door, all so you can escape one time. Unless you want to tell me once the door is open, wait for everybody to leave which could take anywhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes depending on your teammates, then the killer finds it, closes it, and then you still find it with the small time left. I doubt that will ever happen.
I agree keys needed a nerf, but they nerfed the item to the point that it has basically no value. Unless is am misunderstanding something about this change.
so I ask again, what is the point keys now?
Comments
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"so I ask again, what is the point keys now?"
The same as Mori's.
Nothing really. Surv's wanted a "unfun" addon nerfed, Killers got the same.
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Keys have aura reading add-ons that you can use instead of using a perk slot.
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You ever been in a game where you're the last survivor and the killer found the hatch and closed, and is now patrolling the two exit gates which unfortunately spawned close to each other for them to patrol between? The key will be your counter play to that, provided that the hatch isn't close to either gate.
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You can still use keys for the various aura reading add-ons they have.
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To open a closed hatch.
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Right but mori is at least... fun you get a neat kill animation and get to skip hooking the survivor a 3rd time. That is at least some value, there is a point to it. Now it would be more of a hinderance to have key because you are taking you are taking up an item spot that could be used for something like a med kit. as for aura reading while that is true, remember what you get form a chest is random. if you get a key from a chest it may have no addons at all. and as for point about opening a hatch when the killer is patrolling the doors. That is a very specific circumstance. you have to be the last person alive. the killer has to have found the hatch. the endgame collapse will have started so you countdown to automatic loss is already going. you will then have to find a key the doors have to be reasonably close enough that opening it is too risky or versing a killer then can traverse across the map really fast (Blight, ect). All so you can maybe find the hatch and escape. And nobody sees a problem with this being an "Ultra rare" item?
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Keys need a rework at this point to better serve their aura reading purpose, if the hatch is no longer going to be usable outside of the 'last man standing' scenario. At least one of the aura reading add-ons should be baseline, because a solitary key is now just a dud, taking up space on the chest drop table and bloodwebs.
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That is my point. I don't have an issue with keys be nerfed, I in fact support it. However, I genuinely see no value in keys anymore, especially with chests. This needed to be considered when implementing the nerf and simply was not.
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There's not much of a point to Mori's either. Just a different animation.
This was pretty much the exact change I suggested.
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So they are the same as Mori then? And having a fun little animation that normally takes longer to go through than hooking someone isnt great viewing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apACPeDNj0w&t=2s
12 seconds.
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I don't think keys needed a nerf, but a full rework. Hatch also got thrown into the mix.
What I would've liked to see is the removal of the aura reading mechanic from keys altogether. Make that something that is exclusive to maps. As it stands, there's no reason to use rare keys for anything other than opening hatch now. If they kept the progress bar on hatch, but made the add-ons more oriented toward "hatch stays open longer" or "hatch aura detected within so many meters" (more like Left Behind, less like maps), that would've made more sense imo. Hell, maybe even add an insta-chest opening option to give them more uses that are exclusive to themselves.
I also would've liked to see hatch appear with 2 survivors left in the trial. That way, at most, survivors could force a tie or what the MMR considers an ideal match. Now keys only serve to open a closed hatch, which is riskier than it ever was before.
Essentially they're even more useless outside of sweat matches. They're rare in typical matches as is, but I was hoping they'd find a way to balance things out without staying within the mechanic and changing a few numbers. I really mourn for the challenges too now. It's gonna be (even more of) a ######### and a half to complete anything regarding key.
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I guess it is technically a fair trade off. But at the same time, it feels sad they watered down unique mechanics just because they were oppressive. Like, surely there is a middle ground between op and useless...
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Aura reading. That's what most of the key add-ons are for. Also if you bring a key and you are the last survivor and the killer closes the hatch, you'll be able to re-open it. It might just save you.
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Its now 95% useless. Just let killer find hatch whilst you wait for exit gate :/
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Just buff the mori. Keys are fine.
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I wish green, broken key was better for aura reading since that's literally its only possible use. I'm excited to try an aura reading key build but I feel like they will pale massively in comparison to just bringing a medkit.
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keys and mori are not the same. They may be equal in power, but they are not the same. If a killer equips a mori. Even if you see no value in skipping the pick up and hook on the 3rd survivor. At worst you can say a mori has no impact and purely enjoyment. As for keys however, I already outlined the situation needed to actually use one. the chance of it happening naturally is incredibly small. You will have to force it otherwise the item will be useless. This would actually make skeleton keys weaker then a brown toolbox, as it least the toolbox has value. I understand aura reading, but as I Stated (Chests). If I see a teammate with a key, They are telling me they already planning on tanking the match and waiting out for hatch.
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You do not get aura reading from chest keys unless you bring the Ace perk, though. So it is as close to useless as anything in this game is, if you ask me.
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Broken keys should not show up in chests i think.
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All keys are being nerfed to be broken keys, that is my point. I outlined the specific situation that would have to occur to use them naturally in a match and it is way to specific. Their aura readings the only guaranteed value and add dons from chests are not guaranteed.
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I Love the change. Key and hatch is perfekt now.
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Hey, I said that a year ago with Mori’s. What’s the point now. Welcome to the party, FINALLY!
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That would make sense if we didnt already have maps which do the aura reading WAY better than key's aura reading. And not just that if u find keys in chest it has no add-on's so what is the point? Im glad the keys got nerfed but like everything else, BHVR don't plan ahead on how this item will be used in the future.
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U bring them either for wallhack or just in case u wan't to trade your teammates and run away.
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Key add ons show you different auras than maps, they let you see the killers aura and teammates auras. That's like comparing Bond or OoO with Detectives Hunch - the only thing they have in common is aura reading, how useful they are depends on your playstyle. Do you need help finding gens/totems or would you rather know where teammates/killer are?
If you find a green map it will only show you gens, that's only useful if you are someone that has trouble finding gens otherwise it's about as useful as a key without add ons.
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They may look at some of the add-ons to it to make it an item with other functions than escaping, but it's definitely just a 2nd chance at the hatch now.
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I would have to guess that this hatch change is also just a stop gap before the announced complete overhaul of both keys and moris.
But that's only the fools hope speaking out of me and that change might also end like early game collapse and other things that had been staying to long on the drawing board until they got finally scrapped.
@Icaurs i guess they hopefully forgot to mention that hatch still spawns closed when the gates are powered (maybe because it's not a "change" per se)
And then it is still an alternative with multiple people at end game to circumvent bad gate spawns.
If not then they again managed to take only half of the community feedback. Nearly every post i saw that proposed hatch spawn changes to "last survivor standing" had also "all gens done" as spawning requirement. But maybe behaviour stopped reading after the first half and did a bad job again.
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It is for people who camp hatches.
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Maps cannot read survivor or killer auras, that's what keys do.
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This key change is literally in the same league as if they had made ebony moris only useable when there were exactly 11 hooks in a match. Yes, technically still possible to use, but, the tiny value is you get to maybe avoid a decisive strike on that last survivor. Still has value, killers be happy! Now keys are equally useless as that hypothetical mori.
Mori's in their current state are not useless, just way less usefull than they used to be. Avoiding decisive's and saving the hook travel time actually affect the outcome of matches.
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How you think we felt with Mori?
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Not really, as keys can be used to read auras with the right add-ons whereas an 11-hook mori does literal nothing until you have 11 hooks.
Also, I would argue that the travel time saved with the key is at best minimal and at worst actual time wasted. I think keys are generally not worth taking anymore, but I still think the aura reading makes them more useful than Mori offerings currently are.
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Get ready for keys every match, people are going to use up all their keys before the nerf.
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That's a little simplistic, don't you think?
Moris still allow you to avoid possible DS, unbreakable , flashlight saves, flash bangs, pallet stuns, hook sabotage, body blocks, etc.
What do keys now allow you to do?
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As many people have stated, keys still have the aura reading add ons. It's only gonna be a second chance at hatch after the killer closes it.
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And do people ever use them? What is the point of tracking your team mates? We have perks that do that and add even better benefits (but no one runs them because meta) but that just shows you don't meed to track the killers aura or your team mates. If tracking your team was THAT important those perks would be used way way more. Kindred does survivor tracking way better (is perfect for solo queue) and with that you could bring a much better item than a stupid key with survivor reading aura.
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So you're telling me that you would bring a green key with add-ons to track your team mates instead of Kindred and an actual useful item like a medkit or if you're confident enough a flashlight. There is a reason running green keys are a meme their aura add-ons are a joke. Sorry you cannot say keys have a use out side of opening the hatch cause they really don't. Joke of an item that went from broken to borderline useless.
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What I think is gonna be worse is that they will leave it like this. And from the sounds of it, it has a pretty high chance of being an awful band-aid fix.
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You only mentioned map aura reading which is why I responded that they are different when it comes to the aura reading and depending on your playstyle one is more useful than the other.
As for medkits or flashlights. I'm terrible with flashlights, so much so that if I find them in a chest I will give them to a random teammate I see without an item. I play swf with 1 other so getting a teammate to heal me really isn't difficult, I also have no problem playing injured.
While Kindred is a great perk it is situational - someone has to be hooked for it to activate and killer needs to be near the hook to see their aura. With aura reading on key I could see the auras whenever I want without the conditions required with a perk.
All the survivor items have a perk you could run instead, just because there is a perk option it doesn't make that item useless. You either use a perk slot for what the item can do or you bring the item and use perk slot for something else.
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Yes, but I don't think that is what we were referring to in our discussion.
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To people that compare keys with mori's.
If they make keys offerings i am ok with the change.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
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Moris counter DS, flashlight saves, pallet saved
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I think they have value still. When the killer closes hatch and gates are close together say like midwich. It makes the killer have to patrol three areas instead of two which will give a better chance of escape.
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You say Kindred is situational but it is with out a doubt the most run solo survivor perk. That is not "Situational" that is meta also its not just used for tracking the killer its also used to track your team which is the better trade off.
Okay good you have a friend to help you heal that doesnt make medkits worthless? Same with flashlights just cause you arent good with them doesnt mean the item is bad. (im just assuming you think medkits and flashlights arent good cause of your statement so do correct me if this was not your meaning)
Yes all survivors have perks you can run instead of items yet a very little amount of the players use the item over the perk, cause the perk is almost better in every way than the item. If key's aura reading was actually useful people would use green keys more but they don't they use purple and pink for hatch and nothing more. To add more to this there are only 4 add-on's for aura reading for keys and 2 of them are basically the same one just increases the range of it and only 1 tracks the killer.
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You can only use Kindred when someone is hooked, that is the only time you can use that perk. Just because many run it doesn't change you only get use from it during a specific situation in the match. You can't track your teammates or the killer outside of someone being hooked and the killer near the hook.
I never said medkits and flashlights are bad. You said "you're telling me that you would bring a green key with add-ons to track your team mates instead of Kindred and an actual useful item like a medkit or if you're confident enough a flashlight." and I responded with they are just not useful for me because of my play style.
As for "perks are better in every way than the item" - You heal much faster with a medkit (especially with add ons) than you do using the perk Self Care. Sabotage with a toolkit is better than the perk simply because the perk has a cool down. Using pink map to find totems is better than waiting for gens to finish with Detectives Hunch or running around waiting for a sound to go off with Small Game. Using a key with add-ons to see killer/survivors at anytime is better than waiting for someone to be hooked (Kindred), someone to be injured (Empathy), or killer to kick something (Alert). Like I said before, you use an item to free up perk slot for something else more useful based on your playstyle. All the items can be useful depending on your playstyle and the perks you could run aren't necessarily better than the item/addons you could use instead.
Many times when I saw someone bring in a purple/pink key they had aura reading add-ons attached. Until recently you could use all the charges on a key with it's aura reading ability and then use it to escape. Alot avoided running green keys with add ons not because they weren't useful but because killers would use Franklin's or tunnel them out if they saw a key in the lobby. The keys aura add ons are extremely useful and now keys are nerfed killers will be less inclined to tunnel out survivors they see with a key so more will run the green keys with aura add-ons - if they ran an aura perk they can now free up that spot to run something else.
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Kindred Either your teammates are on the hook revealing your entire team to you and the killers aura or nobody is on the hook in which case you don't really need to know where they are. While I believe the key may have addons for aura reading that is only secondary to the real benefit of opening hatch. Also as I said, there is no guarantee the key will have an addon for aura reading. If the key was intended for this by the devs the keys would now have addons by default in chests. This is clearly not the devs intention. If you get a pink key from a chest with no addons, you may never get to use the item thorughout an entire match. This is somehow still 'ultra rare." My point is this idea is clearly rushed and now keys serve no real purpose during a match.
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There are definitely times to see killer and teammates auras outside of a player being on a hook. Being in chase with a killer and finding teammates to heal/work on gens are just two examples.
None of the items have add-ons when pulled from a chest unless you have ace in the hole equipped. Green maps without add-ons is only useful to find gens, if you know where all the gens are it has no purpose like a green key. If you don't get injured or you're playing against the plague you may not be able to use your item just like you wouldn't be able to use the purple/pink key for hatch - but atleast the add-ons make the key useful outside the hatch while the medkit add ons do not make it useful outside healing.
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Maps have a purpose of revealing generators, totems, traps ect, useful.
Medkits have the purpose of healing yourslef. Useful.
Even toolboxes can be used to slightly increase gen speed.
Flashlights blind, even if your bad it still has a use
My issue is you can go entire match with a key and never even get a chance to use it, without any addons. No other item is like this. That is my my problem.
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As I said, you could go an entire match not needing to heal which would make the medkit useless. Medkit is only useful if you or a teammate are injured and not in broken state.
A purple/pink key without add-ons you still have a chance to open the hatch if it is closed which allows you to avoid the doors, this is very useful if they spawned close by or you have a killer that can cover distance quickly. Before the nerf you were never guaranteed to be able to use the key during the match - you could've died before the hatch was even revealed.
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If you are regularly going entire matches without being hit. You should create a youtube channel because you have to teach your skill to the community. Also read my initial post, I outline the 2 specific scenarios that the key can be used but it is no guaranteed. I already addressed the points you made.
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