What would be the best way to 'Nerf' Dead Hard while keeping it good?
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Like others have said, remove the iFrames.
On another note, it'd be nice if all exhaustion perks applied exhaustion, mangled and hemorrhaging until exhaustion wears off.
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Adding a comment to repeat the one that a few have already.
Remove I-frames and increase distance slightly.
From the killers POV, whiffing hits feels bad. Whiffing hits that look like they should connect hurts our monkey brains. A survivor standing still facing a pallet, swinging, seeing nothing happening but the survivor vault the pallet and teabag on the other side is one of the worst feeling interacts you can have in the game. Removing that would make the perk feel better from killer sides, probably make it stronger on some loops with a better distance.
But yeah, iframes bad.
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remove dash and i frames, replace with endurance, but make it a really low time endurance, from 1 second at max. that way if you time it you get a sprint burst without having to actually time it.
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... Wouldn't that just end up with the same exact situation as current Dead Hard?
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Even worse.
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not half as much. a good reward for a really precise input. + no dash.
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Every perk has some condition attached to it for it to function. Dead Hard's is being injured, but it does more than dodge a hit, it gives you distance when you're not dodging anything. I look at it like old Balanced Landing, where the stagger duration was always active.
Dead Hard would function exactly the same way it does now if instead of dashing forward, you just spun in place with iframes or whatever, and you would gain some distance, but not so much you could extend a chase you already screwed up.
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It will make it broken. Now instead of pallet or window vault u have dash whenever u want. Just press button.
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Not nerfing it in the first place.
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Crazy idea but what if dead hard was a boon totem? Something that could only be used while within that range?
Just a thought.
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thats why its a timing thing, i was saying 1 second as the max possible time, it could definitely be lower.
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Mkay, imma try a thing...
Dead hard
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
- Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
- Avoid any damage during the Dash.
Each time Dead Hard is used, gain a stackable Hindered Status Effect of (5 or 10) % until you're either hooked or you're fully healed a Health State.
You also gain the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
Dead Hard cannot be used while Exhausted.
Post edited by Boss on1 -
Am I stupid or i don't see any difference? Now u dash and avoid hit. U suggest same thing.
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Well you're not stupid, but i did make a change.
It's right in front of the Exhaustion cooldown.
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This is my change as well. DH should not absorb a hatchet, make a bear trap not activate or somehow tank through a spear gun shot.
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Hmm.... It's actually sounds good and fair for both sides. But the question is do Hindered stacks remain when u get unhooked and how big slow is. It's still feels like survivor can pull DH into window or pallet and then make some distance as he does now, and if slow is <5% it's almost not noticeable. Like lets say killer destroyed pallet and it took him 3sec. U can move 4*3=12meters away and 5 or 10% from it is not so big difference. But if it stacks, ouch.
But i rly like the idea.
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It does not need nerfed. It needs to be fixed so as soon as you dh you get speed and invulnerability, this would make it so much better. Also if you could turn while deadharding would be wonderful for the times the computer sends you off in a weird direction. Also if the distance you ran was consistent, sometimes it is barely one step sometimes you run 5 meters.
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Mm yeah, being unhooked should remove the stacks.
Also being healed from Dying should also remove them.
Btw, reason i'm not hard-nerfing DH is cause i don't mind it much myself.
I don't mind how you want to change the Perk, but for a big change or hard nerf i'm not the right person. 😜
Regardless, imma edit my idea...
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I think we miss something. How u can stack it? If killer gets down and slugs u, it's 5%. Someone heals u from dying to injured they are removed. If u use Unbreakable... I think it counts as u healed yourself. If u get unhooked, stacks removed again. How to get more than 1 stack?
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By using Dead Hard multiple times within that same occurrence of being Injured.
So something like: You got hit, you use Dead Hard and gain Hindered #1, Killer gives up on you for whatever reason, you recover from Exhausted but don't heal or can't heal, Killer finds you again, you use Dead Hard again and gain Hindered #2.
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I mainly play killer personally and survivor sometimes. To be honest even as a killer main I think that Dead Hard, or in general the exhaustion perks for survivors are fine. Is ok for a killer to worry about them to be honest but especially dead hard is of the few you can fully counter just by waiting and baiting it out of the survivor. I don't find it too strong, true it can allow the survivor to reach another loop safely but that's the game anyway. I don't see any reason to nerf it personally.
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Sounds fair. I like it <3
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Yes... no more negating bear traps!!!!
That is the only change it really needs ^^
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Have it auto switch to No Mother when dodging the killer with DH.
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Nah. Change survivors altogether. Like Diablo all survivors should have a “stamina bar”. As they run around, use exhaustion powers, or the fast vault this bar is consumed. When the bar runs dry the players suffers from “Exhaustion” which is basically a considerable hindered status effect until the bar refills fully. The bar refills by standing still, and crouching. So if you’re tired you must hide, or go work on a gen (This becomes crazy when you consider Mind Breaker that keeps their stamina from recovering at the expense of gen rushing). With Mind Breaker the tired survivor must “take a break”. Go do totems or something. If not you’ll be too tired to get away from them.
So lets say you use DH right when the bar is depleted. You can do that to extend a given chase. The catch is now you will be too tired to reach another pallet, or vault quickly. As they can’t fast vault without stamina either.
So chasing survivors is not about just mind gaming at loops, or hitting them before they reach a pallet/vault anymore. The killer must literally work to “Exhaust” the survivor in order to catch them. Survivors must manage their stamina in order to escape a chase. Not just hold W…. All horrors work this way. The killers/monsters in the films always seem to never get tired, and are resilient to most attacks.
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I don't think people having an issue with Dead Hard is a good reason to blanket nerf all survivors down to an absolutely terrible level.
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2 things
You cant interact with anything for a short amount of time (2-3 seconds) after the dash. That means no Pallets or Vaults.
And dead hard can only avoid basic M1 hits, all other kind of special ability hits cant be dodged, including Trapper traps, Blight rush hits, Legion feral hit, Plague vormit etc etc.
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That’s not nerfing survivors at all. It’s total balance. Every big DBD streamer or player preaches that the solution as survivor is to hold W against any killer that isn’t Blight, Spirit, or Nurse. Meaning the game balance is skewed heavily.
I play both sides, and got to Red Rank often. Killer is very stressful because there’s a lot more to worry about. Gens. Totems. Hooks. With the speed boosts basic killers still get dusted. This is all with very limited vision, mind you. Which is why Shadowborne and Monitor & Abuse are really good. Survivor is absolutely braindead. They see everything around them. They have a million pallets and vaults to run towards. They worry about almost nothing until people begin to die off. They can also finish the gens without ever any breaking totems. It doesn’t make sense. There’s no hiding element in this game because players aren’t encouraged to hide from the bad guys. There is no real reason to unless you’re “new”. If you’re tired and move slowly you’d have a reason to hide from the killer outside of taking damage.
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Sometimes, when you suddenly rush somewhere (Dead Hard), you can accidentally tear the ligaments.
I would add Deep Wound and Mangled status effects after using Dead Hard, so that the survivor will have to spend more time healing after avoiding killer attacks.
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That's a hell of a lot of words to try and talk your way out of labelling this what it is: A nerf.
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Almost all killers have been nerfed by now, and people still complain. It’s because the problem isn’t killer, but survivor. Every knows deep down that survivor is too strong. God Tier Nurse/Spirit/Blight is a SMALL minority so don’t use them as examples of OP. For every 1 killer there’s 4 survivors. So the devs pander to survivor. The proof are these nonsensical “Boom Totems”... As if survivor couldn’t get anymore power tricks that lets us win! Team of 4. Comms. 2nd Chance Perks. Keys. Offerings for Hatch spawn. Map layouts with insane tiles. Safe pallets everywhere. Now BOONS?! That survivors can light whenever, but killers still can’t? 😂
Adding a stamina bar isn’t nerfing survivor. It’s adding a fresh mechanic to make survivors actually use more of our braincells as opposed to holding W. Like how playing as killer always forces the player to do. Survivor is braindead easy. Any 4 players with common sense can/will escape. New match making shows the truth.
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Whenever survivor mains are challenged they complain. Then a killer, and their perks/add ons get nerfed. Old Ruin was perfect. Old Ruin forced survivors to get better at DBD. Tool Box with Instructions could’ve mitigated Old Ruin, but they implemented that after Ruin got nerfed... Stake Out also existed! With Old Ruin if the survivor wasn’t very good at their own objective then the killer was given more time to complete their own objective. See how that quintessential feature changed?? When Ruin became braindead I knew DBD was doomed. Lmso! 🤣
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So i'd Delete it
Realistic, get rid of immunity to dmg and it would be a different story
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I'm quoting you sir thanks for the words, i agree
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That's yet more words to try and talk your way out of labelling this as what it very obviously is: A nerf.
This on top of the already existing Bloodlust effect, by the way. All you're advocating for is that killers should have free reign to bungle their attacks repeatedly and still get the reward.
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Get rid of the i-frames so it doesn't literally phase through hatchets, bear traps, shots, vomit, etc.
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Do you even play killer? While you’re wasting time stacking Bloodlusts for a single down all the gens are getting done. Bloodlust is NOT something you want to rely on 😂.
Old Ruin made you get better at skill checks. Old Undying made you take the time to find the totems. Nope! The devs can’t make survivor do any real work. Just allow survivor to bully/troll killer. I win in this game high/drunk via solo Q. That’s how EZ Survivor is. I’ll lose typically because my team is Urban Evading around, doing a challenge, or gets caught in 5 seconds. Killer is a different story. High I can win. Drunk I will lose. You need a working brain to catch competent players.
The only reason survivors complain about the “Big Three” is because… They’re actually proficient!
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First killer mains complained about keys, now that it’s getting nerfed they’re moving on to deadhard. Sprintburst is next
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If everyone else is being nerfed why can’t survivors be? So that everything evens out? Survivor is too easy and killer is too survivor sided due to survivor being super easy. No one is having fun anymore. Nothing beats holding W except tunnel/camp. Instead of adding a mechanic to balance survivor the devs do the exact opposite. Why can’t a survivor be made to use any brain cells? C’mon now. 😭
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As much as the forums like to cry that the game is horribly survivor sided, the only stats we've had is a 68% kill rate average on red ranks, some time ago. This idea that all survivors need to be blanket nerfed because forumgoers can't get consistent 4Ks isn't really backed up by any data. So excuse me for being a bit reluctant to stomp on the experience of any survivor that isn't top 5% sweat squad.
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It’s because regular killers can’t do anything against competent survivors. There’s no counterplay to them simply running from pallet to pallet/vault. Which is why you really only see the Big Three in upper ranks. It gets boring seeing Blight, Spirit, and Nurse with Ruin/Undying. After that it’s Deathslingers, and Huntresses. No variety. Then it boils down to being tunneled and camped by everyone else. 😭
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Honestly, I can’t say I disagree with this. People always want to just remove one factor of the perk without remembering that even now neither is entirely reliable, so the only way to keep one of the two factors is to buff one of them.
Increasing the dash would be a sort of “soft invincibility” provided that it’s far enough to disallow the killer to lunge through it, but it would also disallow survivors to just position dodge hits and Dead Hard over traps.
Good idea.
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Remove the distance, keep the invincibility.
The issue is the distance, not the i-frame. The i-frame rewards skilled timing, the distance part of it just allows you to greed every single loop without penalty, that's the part of it that's bad design. There's generally speaking no counter play to using DH for distance, there is counter play to the i-frame though.
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Yeah, but there's so much counterplay, it'd render the perk unusable.
Issue with Dead Hard is the distance, which is what gets complained about. But remove that, and the i-frames aren't enough to carry the perk. It'd need a new tool to compensate the distance loss.
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I should've been more specific. I wasn't necessarily implying just removing the distance and nothing else. The i-frame could possibly be lengthened/improved.
That said, even just the i-frame itself is very strong and I don't believe there is too much counter play.
To put this into perspective, if the killers had a perk like DH it would be a hex perk, with a cooldown, and it would be a weaker version. I say this to illustrate how overly strong it currently is relative to all other perks.
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Well, then why don't we put DH on the same limitation? It gains a token whenever a gen is done, and requires a token to use.
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I actually think that's a pretty good idea lol
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So here is the problem i have with the perk after going 8 games vs clear SWF on comms in 2 hours; believe me you don't want to see those games they were not pretty almost ended up throwing my mouse after in one of them my first rush on blight was intentionally body blocked by a survivor in a jungle gym so i end up running in place and just get a stun. Going off topic:
First there needs to be collision to dead hard just like blight rush; If you hit ANYTHING with a hitbox you should stop dead in your tracks stunned. Pls tell me that i am not the only one who hates seeing survivors using dead hard while hugging a wall and just skate on it and get to the pallet. The moment i see that i just say: YAY super man flight.
Second The way hit validation is now it should be shorter so that a maxed out lunge at the start of dead hard can land a hit on the survivor. I am ok with it having I- frames but the distance in the hands of capable survivors can extend a chase from 20 sec to 60-80 because of the loops on maps.
Right now dead hard's problem is even more seen with the absurdly one sided pallet stuns. I don't know if anyone esle has felt this but right now hits from pallets are kinda gone. If i get one i actually get suprised and raise my hands since the game gave me something for my troubles. In about 20 games i have like 1-2 hits through pallets and 10-20 hits that are just ignored. Before even if they dead hard there is still that small chance that the hit will connect now that is impossible like 95% of the time. The pallet just sucks up the survivor and stops you in your tracks. For me that system needs a look something just isn't right with it, after they started using it, it feels very one sided, while before it had its ######### moments but was more ,,fair'' for both sides at least from my gameplay.
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