What would be the best way to 'Nerf' Dead Hard while keeping it good?
So Dead Hard is an insanely good perk and is used a lot, (In several games today only one game had a survivor not using it), so if its Nerfed, How would you nerf/change Dead Hard in a way that still makes it a good perk?
My idea would just be to remove one of the two factors of it, The Dash forward / The Invincibility, Though i think the dash is the stronger part so maybe just keep that.
THIS IS NOT A DEBATE ON IF IT SHOULD BE NERFED/CHANGED, JUST HOW YOU WOULD!
Comments
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Remove the i-Frames. Give it slightly more distance.
That way it's no longer a complete second chance perk, while maintaining it's strength to avoid a hit.
You can still dodge projectiles even without i-Frames.
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I'd have Dead Hard stun the killer instead of making the survivor invincible. Think about it, you're shoving the killer and avoiding a blow, right? Moving past the slasher. A lot of people, myself included, just use Dead Hard for distance or cheeky plays. Push the killer that's getting ready to attack you for 2 seconds, become exhausted, and try to get to a pallet in time.
It would open up Dead Hard rescues for survivors being carried, sure, but you could always just make it so the survivor doesn't wiggle off from a Dead Hard stun. I dunno. Just a thought.
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I think it's odd how you can dead hard a hatchet that hits you square in the back.
It registers as a hit, but negates it. I can understand how you make a melee swing and miss but to negate a obvious hit is just silly.
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I think all the exhaustion perks that aren't Smash Hit should require unhooking a survivor before they can be used. This would prevent using it in the first chase when the killer needs to get a down and start building pressure, which naturally slows the game down
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While Dead Hard is a good perk. I don't think it's anywhere near the level of needing a nerf. It's one of the few exhaustion perks that can be rendered completely useless half the time. If I'm ever chasing a survivor in the open, I'll wait till I get close enough to I'm practically rubbing up against them and then lunge. If they have Dead Hard, it usually results in one of two things. They'll use it before I get that close and then it's just an easy follow up to hit them. Or once I'm that close, the lunge will cover almost the same distance as the dash and it lasts longer the invincibility frames so it will still hit them in the end. It has to be where they're close to a pallet or vault but about to get hit before Dead Hard is really powerful.
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I'd rather not get hook farmed even more than I already do because someone wants to activate their exhaustion perk, I see enough people swarm the hooks as it is, so if you went that route, it would have to be a safe unhook.
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Remove i-frames and increase its distance a bit. It would make the perk take more skill to use and focus on the distance part of it instead of practically giving survivors the ability to phase through a hit.
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No.
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Dead Hard is fine the way it is. I've said this many times before but if you nerf either aspect of it, the distance or the i-frames, it becomes a dead perk and everyone moves over to Sprint Burst.
If I made one change to it it would probably be to make it not work over bear traps though.
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It is incredibly strong when used for distance, not dodging as you are describing it.
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The strength of Dead Hard against projectile Killers is that you can use your i-frames to get through choke points like doorways where it would normally be impossible to dodge a shot.
Dead Harding to avoid the hit by moving out of the way instead of going through a doorway because the i-frames have been removed would be largely useless because the Killer would catch up with you anyway.
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Remove the speed boost. Just have the Survivor raise their arms to indicate they are blocking a hit.
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Increase the exhaustion from 40 seconds to 60.
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If you're concerned about distance gain, then Sprint Burst, Lithe, and Balanced Landing all give WAY more distance than Dead Hard.
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Not being able to dead hard through the killer's power
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No bonus distance and rise Cd from 40 to 60sec.
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How do obese killers outrun young, healthy people? And usually, you get slower the longer you're in the chase, not faster. The game lacks a lot of realism lol
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Clearly Clown took a hit of that vape before the game started.
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lmao I guess he has. I just had a funny visual of The Clown sweating and practically dying during a chase.
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But all of those perks require a condition for using it. Dead hards' only condition to activate is being injured, which the killer has to do to progress the game.
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Still same but DH automatically activates when killers can hit survivor without doing lunge attack.
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it gives endurance for 1/2/3 seconds after being activated, but if you get hit you don't get the speed buff.
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I said in a different thread I think they should reduce the I-frames by a little and make the person using dead hard oblivious for 60 seconds
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Dead hard is overrated if u ask me sprint burst was exactly same op perk while it was popular now nobody uses it and nobody cares
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Let the Killer grab the Survivor if Dead Hard was used at the last second/too close.
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That's all I would do as well
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What breaks deadhard is its multi use to either dodge a hit or gain the distance you need to get to that next pallet or force a fast vault. With that in mind I would add a action prompt cooldown of 1.5 seconds after you deadhard where you can't do stuff like pull down pallets, or vault windows.
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Remove invincibility.
It's absurd really. Dodge moves are common in most games, but you still have to dodge away from the attack. Not INTO it. And no one has ever considered that unreasonable. But somehow, this move gives you free invincibility even if you screw up that obvious requirement. That's not skill, that's just a bailout.
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For me the issue isnt deadhard its that so many killers are punished HEAVILY for missing their power and deadhard guarantees that. Against m1 I dont give a ######### about DH but against Blight or Twins or Slinger its an abosulte pain
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Survivors cannot vault or drop pallets for t seconds after using Dead Hard
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Dead hard is fine as it is. Idk how much dead hard is even working with the new hit validation, I stopped playing for a few months. But back then it wasn't even working that we'll. Exhausted on the ground even if you used it early enough.
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Yeah damn, those 2 meter extra distance are insaaaane. Like, I can't even believe sprint burst exists it covers so much more distance.
Fr, it's not that crazy. Yes dead hard allows you to squeeze out one more loop or so. But let's not forget that this is all dead hard can do. Sprint burst, lithe, balanced etc allow you to get from any unsafe area into a safe area. So much better. And let's not forget 99ING sprint burst.
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Barely anyone uses it for it's I-frames. So this would be a buff honestly.
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Instead of this, I would recommend all survivors start out exhausted. This would allow the killer a better chance of getting a good start.
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Exhaustion causes you to move slower and do slower actions for 10s at t3
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Yes it is. U can dash into pallet or window and killer can't do anything about it cause u are invulnerable. That's guaranteed another 20sec - forever chase depending on map design and loop spawns. Sprint isn't even close strong. It's not press to win button and u need to time it to actually make a strong play and during it u either walk, or run till killer finds u. In both scenarios u don't do gens.
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the invincibility aspect never really works for me anyway tbh so I wouldn't be too bothered if it were removed, but I feel that would detract from the theme of the perk.
Personally I don't think it's as broken as people make out. It's just very very popular (as the easiest to use of the 2 best exhaustion perks, SB being great when 99d but difficult to use effectively).
I'd rather see more exhaustion perks given secondary effects to make them more popular picks.
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I think you are undermining that strength.
That one extra loop can often lead to a survivor escaping that chase or chaining another tile together, which is quite significant. Even more so on a good survivor.
Also, when considering that a lot of killers don't have the necessary abilities to deal with this effectively (pig, trapper, Wraith, trickster, Myers, legion, ghostface, hillbilly, Freddy, bubba, and the twins), you get a perk that can allow a survivor to force the killer to spend loads of their time chasing them for one down. With the only condition that they be injured. This makes the perk very consistently good, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the power that it has feels like too much.
And Sprint burst is mostly a utility rather than a chasing perk. Most survivors don't 99 it simply because they have their exhaustion still high or don't know about it. A survivor should be exhausted most of the game when running this perk.
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There is no way to do this without gutting it. But hey, you know what? You can gut it if I can keep my boons. 😊
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About 50% of the time the survivor I'm chasing does a great job of nerfing it all on their own by Dead Harding straight into a wall.
But anyway, I agree with the replies saying you shouldn't be able to Dead Hard THROUGH the killer.
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There's already a built in nerf.
It's called exhausted but dead hard didn't come out :^)
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not true. Dark souls has Iframes on every roll. In fact in Dark soul 2, There is stat called Agility that influences how fast your roll is and how long Iframe is. Nioh 1 and Nioh 2 also use Iframes for dodging. So does Sekiro Shadows die Twice.
If anything, most games use Iframes.
I think problem with dead hard is that when used correctly, It creates "lose/lose" situations where survivor can gamble another loop and keep gambling every loop until they misjudge distance or make poor movement error in which dash component can correct the error.
David king is suppose to have perks that have "High risk, High reward" and yet his perk dead hard when used as dash is low risk, high reward. If you want dead hard to be non-meta perk but still remain useful, you can change to grant 1 second endurance effect and remove dash component.
It would be high-risk/high reward. It wouldn't be meta perk though. I'm certain everyone who hates using Sprint burst would use Lithe and rest would use Sprint burst.
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The problem right now is it has no downside. It's "Downside" is that you have to be injured, but that isn't really a downside since you are going to get injured in a chase most likely, and if you don't you won the chase anyway. Every exhaustion perk has some sort of downside:
- Lithe: You can't fast vault unless you want to activate it, this means you are going to loop suboptimally if you want to save it
- Sprint Burst: You can't run unless you 99 it. If you do 99 it, then you can't do ANYTHING other than run or you have to walk again. This makes you slower moving around the map.
- Head on: Requires a locker, isn't really usable in chase, often requires setups.
- Smash hit: Requires you to get a pallet stun which can be risky, or it could be a pallet that you don't want to drop like shack and the killer can play around it.
- Balanced Landing: Has very few places that you can actually use it and is highly map dependent. Some maps only get one spot you can use it (the hill)
- Adrenaline: Only works one time and happens at endgame, i also don't really count it as an exhaustion perk since it always works, more a perk that just activates exhaustion.
- Deadhard: You must be injured.
There is no real downside to dead hard when compared to the other perks.
What i would do to fix it, is to create a downside with it and rework the perk entirely. Make it so that, when you lose one health state, you gain a sprint burst. Think what happens when you happen to get hit just as you start a sprint burst, you move like double sprint burst for a few seconds. That is what dead hard should do, either a double speed boots, or maybe it doubles the length of the speed boost you get when getting hit.
This means that, when you get hit, you get a big boost to get away, but now it is out, it's over. You can't use it to unexpectedly extend a chase by "dead harding for distance" What it would do is just get you farther than normal when you get hit. This gives the killer options. If they see it activate, they can choose to chase someone else and they still landed a hit, but it could be less optimal, giving the person time to heal up so they can activate it again. Or, they can continue chasing, but it will take much longer to catch up as a reward though, now they know that there are no more exhaustion perks in play.
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2 seconds after it's used, the survivor suffers from Hindered for a further 2 seconds.
This slows them down a little after it's used and means it can't be used purely for distance in a dead zone, only if you're just about to reach a vault or a pallet and need just an extra couple meters.
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Take away the i-frames and we're good.
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Give the survivor a little slowdown after the dash. If you just made it to a pallet or a window with it good, if you managed to bait a hit good. If you did neither and used it for distance on a loop without reaching anywhere, you get hit. I think that would be fair since people wouldn't be able to use Dead Hard to erase their mistakes in a chase while still being able to use it to reach a safe area.
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That is actually a very good idea for the perk. Honestly, 90% of the reason I run it is so the killer can't just block the gate with NOED at the end of the game. I find that so frustrating. This would preserve that aspect while hopefully nerfing it in loops.
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The only problem I have with it is the immunity frames, but that's because I play Huntress. So if I would have the power to change it. I would remove the immunity frames and maybe increase the DH distance.
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This.
Dead hard negating a hatchet that has hit is just crap.
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The best way that I can see to “nerf” the perk is to make it reactionary.. so when the killer swings the survivor must react fast enough to avoid the attack.. this being said I don’t think full exhaustion is warranted, though being able to spam DH throughout the match would be OP so a 30 to potential 25 second exhausted would be better imo
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