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Remember when Undying remained unchanged for three months, and mettle was nerfed in a week?
And people have the absolute gall to say the devs are survivor sided, when they’ve been obsessed with spirit for years. Half the anniversary quotes were about her and it took teeth being pulled to get her reworked.
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At the very least, Undying reduced the amount of camping and tunneling for most of the community and gave survivors an actual reason to go after totems.
MoM was just plain broken.
There is a difference.
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Old MoM was absolutely broken. Old Undying was annoying, but it didn't break the game. I do agree that the claim that the devs are survivor sided is just bullshit.
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imo old undying wouldn't be a problem with counter force
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That’s completely wrong. Counterforce is not a good perk, Otz timed all the perks and found using counterforce was almost as inefficient as no perks!
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Remember when god loops were a thing for four years, removed for a week, then put back in thanks to breakable walls?
This tit for tat can go a lot of ways.
Still, I'll always consider this game survivor side, no matter the changes, so long as SWF remains as it is.
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it helps finding all 5 totems and destroy them. I found counterforce pretty useful and have not much less hours in this game than otz
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OBSESSED WITH SPIRIT??? THEY NERFED HER TWICE???
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Correct. However, he also showed in that video that two survivors, on a map in Badham that isn't one of the "Totems spawn in ridiculously easy to see locations", could be all broken in barely over 2 minutes. Using a Rainbow Map, they could get rid of all 5 in under a minute and a half, and using Detective's Hunch was not much above that time.
For the complaints about Old Undying -- and I'm not saying it was perfect -- the people who claimed it was this horrible, not able to be countered, unstoppable perk that needed to be changed? Well, they either didn't want to look for totems, didn't want to learn totem spawns around maps, or didn't want to use up a perk slot or bring an item to help.
Since the devs already acknowledged when they changed Undying that doing any of these things was "too much" for 4 survivors on a team to handle, my guess is that an unlimited Hex in the Boon totems that the killer can't counter, but only waste time breaking over and over again, I'm sure that, showing that they've learned from that mistake (and the lengthy feedback from the PTB that making them a renewable map resource has the potential to be completely broken), won't let that hit the live game (and they will make them a one-time, if-they're-broken-they're-gone resource like Killer hexes are).
Right? 🤔
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But they balance around survivors who dont play well? They want survivors who arent efficient, cant loop and not very good in chase to escape...
Sure seems like survivor is the focus, but it is the vast majority of the game so...
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Decisive Strike? Object of Obsession? Haddonfield? Cowshed? Instaheals?
Mettle of Man was nerfed because it was literally broken at release and made playing any killer without an instadown pointless. That's not even a discussion. Undying was also busted and deserved the nerf, but you could still just cleanse Undying and cleanse Ruin right after. There's nothing the killer could do against 4 MoM.
Also, MoM stayed the way it was for 2 months.
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Remember when bloodlust got disabled for a testing?
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We gonna talk about her four superbuffs as well? Or how about the time delay between the buffs, nerf 1, and nerf 2?
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Well I guess that’s true. The OP just loves to hate on Spirit so much as they can so yeah lol.
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Remember when they nerfed Undying but put in op Boon Totems?
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And remember how there was basically no difference in kill rate for the majority of killers
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Youre from the future?
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Theyre not biased towards any side, only people like you are
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Oh and if we want to talk about things that ACTUALLY got nerfed in a week after its release
Freddy
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Dang it, there goes my bait post.
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Remember when it took a year after Key's to be changed after Mori's?
Remember how the multiple versions of DS weren't very healthy, and it's current iteration isn't that great now?
Remember how the first 'nerf' to Spirit really didn't do anything?
Remember how long legitimate infinites were in the game?
Remember how Nurse has also been nerfed multiple times, and still isn't very healthy? Not to mention bug-ridden in her current state?
Using time as a metric for BHVR means nothing because they prioritize and balance in such a spastic way, nor are they biased towards one side of the game. Posts like this don't do anything but cause drama and strengthen the stupid ######### "us vs them" problem this community has.
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Counterforce is the worst totem-hunting perk (Clairvoyance not included, but also a garbage perk). All it takes is another survivor destroying one totem for you to lose its benefits. If it’s the one that was revealed to you, you won’t know where the next totem is nor receive the additional 20% cleansing speed.
It will also be cucked by boon totems if they go live in their current form.
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Remember when Moris were nerfed nearly a year ago and they just got to keys?
Goes both ways bucko
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Their post history more than speaks for itself.
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Actually in my experience the amount of tunneling and camping increased by a large margin. Especially to try and get people out at 5 gens.
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Saying the balancing is survivor sided doesn't mean they don't nerf survivors too, nor does it mean they don't buff killers. They do, and everything they've done the killers appreciate.
The imbalances become apparent when you parse out changes over time. When they nerf killers they will sometimes buff something to make up for disparities the nerf creates. But when they buff killers, they almost always nerf some other aspect. This isn't the case with survivors. If survivors are nerfed, it's usually to make way for a new perk they're releasing, or the thing was broken. Mettle of man is one such thing, it was broken. Undying was not broken.
Undying is a good example of how power gets unevenly distributed. If undying hadn't been changed, it would be perfectly balanced in conjunction with the release of boon totems - I don't think it'd be over powered at all. But, alas, they're not switching it back.
Another example, they nerfed stridor and indirectly buffed iron will which has no counter anymore. Now, they're nerfing the spirit, but they're not reverting the changes to stridor. They're also buffing no mither, which even with stridor will only cause grunts of pain to be at 50% which is what no mither was before the change.
Change after change like this compounds into an imbalance over time.
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Remember how Mettle actually stayed that way for more like 2 months?
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The delusion thinking keys and old mori’s are comparable lol
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Survivors: Spirit has no counterplay
Also Survivors: *run Iron Will*
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Remember how long instant blinds lasted, and how the devs stated that it wouldn't be changed?
Infinite loops?
Old sabo?
Yes, we can do this all day. QQ about QQ is the worst kind of QQ (and yes, I really that I'm creating a QQ-ception here).
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You know, you're right- they weren't comparable. At least with old Moris you had to mori each Survivor individually hunting them down, meanwhile 1 Key could allow all four Survivors escape with no consequences. Hatch could also spawn earlier if Survivors died, while Moris required a hook and down of each Survivor.
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wonder how fast boons will get nerfed
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hopefully instantly
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If you think that then you really rely on crutches to win lmao
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...
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Unlucky.
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Undying required survivors to do a second objective that should be encouraged to do. Not just gens. You also had perks and a map item to help you find it and counter it.
MoM didn't have any counter except play killers with special attacks or insta down killers. All m1 hits counted and seeing the survivors aura didn't mattered because they could've healed to 99.
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Not even comparable, Undying meant you had to cleanse more totems sure but it didn't change the game for basic m1 killers like MoM did. Making it so killers without instant down attacks had to hit survivors 3 times to down instead of 2 really extended chases to the point where it just wasn't fair to the killer.
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They were both nerfed so what’s the point of this?
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2 April 2019 - 18 June 2019
The longest week in history.
Never forget.
Time is, of course, irrelevant when you're posting in bad faith, anyway, to spread division.
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I remember that. MoM was nerfed faster than any perk.
And MoM had a huge downside of showing your aura for the remainder of the match.
What is the downside to Undying? None
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So Killers didn't need to camp and tunnel to win the game. They were just given a win.
Now Killers need to camp and tunnel to secure a win. Seems like the real loser here are the survivors.
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MoM aura revealed only showed you after you proc'd MoM endurance hit and then were able to heal back to full health without being downed since the moment you got downed after procing MoM endurance removed the aura reading.
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I'm genuinely starting to believe you're a troll. And not the ones that sit under bridges, I mean a troll like Sluzzy.
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Remember that one time that one guy used one example as a blanket statement to justify a bias in a video game like a moron?
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I only recently started learning about startups and business in general, but from what I've gathered thus far, to be a company worth investing in, you need to focus on growth. The best way to grow is by having a good product, because people will use it and tell friends about it. But, there are ways to grow without making a good product: by gaming the system.
In my experience, the best PvP games are balanced first and foremost so players can remain competitive. If too much focus is given to one side, that side becomes too easy to play, and the other side becomes too hard; one side gets bored, the other burns out.
I worry that this survivor sided stuff is becoming an issue. On the other hand, maybe they're just being careful before they buff killers too much. Like, get survivors to a certain performance level before they make any serious changes to killers. There's also the case that I, and other killers that complain are just bat ######### and don't realize we're bad at the game, and survivors aren't really that powerful. I am on console after all.
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If I didn't already understand you by now, I'd be shaking my head, lol. But for those people who view this as a serious question, here's the actual serious answer.
The downside to Undying? It's a Hex that can be cleansed in literally the first 20 seconds of the match when it spawns in the wide open and a survivor spawns right next to it. Even running it with Ruin, there's always a good chance that half your perk loadout is gone under a minute into the match if you're running hexes, the spawns are so many more bad than good.
Or, in the case of "A picture is worth 1000 words", I simply give you this as Undying's downside.
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I'm pretty sure four survivors escaping out a hatch requires all the gens being done, meaning the game is near its conclusion. Three survivors 1 gen you would have a leg to stand on because that typically occurred in 3 gen situations where the game wasn't over. Old mori on the other hand is early game, instantly tunnel someone off the hook. The two aren't comparable in terms of what you have to do. Finishing 5 gens is harder than catching a person once and tunneling them off the hook.
And how to balance keys was fairly simple:
- New & longer, 5-10s. Even the new one is too short. All it resolved is using the hatch mid chase when the killer is in M1 range.
- Adding a cooldown between each survivor being able to go down to simulate a ladder. So the above animation would include a ladder after. 15-30s. Ample time for counterplay. Then have another animation which'll add 2.5s-5s.Potentially raise the requirement for 3 survivors to all gens done as well, unlikely to be necessary however with sizable cooldowns.
- Changing blood amber so its not a wallhack. That and wraith's add on remove all counterplay. At least scratched mirror myers has a serious draw back.
How to balance moris:
- Include gen requirements that progressively lower the requirements for using it. So at early game it'd be the current 2 hooks + down to mori. As the game progresses the requirement is lowered making it a major late game threat. So basically like what fire up should've been. That was people's complaint about moris. That it was an easy way to lopside the game at the BEGINNING.
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I'm pretty sure it took several months for Mettle of Man to be nerfed.
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I love all the killers going "it goes both ways." These same people will go on to make a thread just like this except for killers tomorrow.
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2.5
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