How would you balance undetectable?
Undetectables effectiveness depends strongly on the survivor. New survivor struggle a lot, while experienced survivor dont need the terror radius all the time and good swf dont need it at all.
Its always hard to balance something for every skill group at the same time, but i think this problem affects undetectable more than other things.
This makes most stealth perks more of a gimmick or the stealth is only a good bonus like with tinkerer, but at the same time stealth makes it really hard for other player. So its hard to nerf/buff it without making them useless/too strong for a specific skill group.
Stealth killer have the problem that the rest of their kit is not good enough if their stealth is countered. But they are still oppressive against players, who struggle against stealth, so you cant just buff the rest of their kit.
I think there is no option to protect stealth against callouts, so the best solution would be to give solos more info + the option to callouts and balance stealth with this in mind.
But whats your opinion? Is stealth fine and if not, how would you fix it?
Comments
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I don't know about any of that really, but I do believe undetectable should also reduce the noise of killer footsteps/breathing. Demo undetectable addons are worthless when all you hear is THUD THUD THUD THUD whenever he's approaching
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Stealth is fine. New players doesn't need hand holding like there's some sort of infant incapable of learning yet how about they learn the game first before they start whining about changes.
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I like this idea. Especially when I'm already playing the (technically) tallest killer in the game and the survivors hear "HROOOOOGGGGH....HRUUUUUUUUGGGGGH.....HROOOOOGGGGH....HRUUUUUUUGH" and the Great Knife is still loud af
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Stealth is fine except for one scenario which happens often. the team being an swf like you said. because they just call out where they are, and it gets worse when they have a map with the beacon addon because they can follow te killer and spam it so it's as if the myers was carrying a minecraft beacon on his back and not knowing it. so maybe stealth isn't strong against swf but it is against players who are new, or players who have split up from there team. if your playing jumpscare myers against new players trust me they are going to have a heart attack a few dozen times depending on how many times you ...... well jumpscare. same deal against players who are seperated from there team, if you are alone doing a gen for instant's on that really unsafe gen upstairs of springwood by the back door and a ghostface walks around the corner and exposes you because they had that crap 99% then your going to freak out because nobody can take hit's. welp you can do that to other players now :D
one way to counter it is to bring spinechill every game making stealth counterable
if something is easily countered but punishes you for not countering it, it's balanced
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New survivors struggling a lot if fine since new killers also struggle a lot to use undetectable effectively. When balancing the other groups of survivors we have to take SWF as baseline and information in Solo Queue should be increased to match them, likely by adding ways for people to communicate in solo queue. To compensate for this, stealth killers would also need buffs to either use their stealth more effectively even if the survivors are communicating, or have a secondary power as a substitute in situations stealth is useless. For example Ghostface getting a secondary power that gives him chase potential would work very well with his stalk etc.
TLDR; New players are fine. Buff Solo Queue information to match SWF, and buff the (stealth) killers to match them. I talk about this in most of my suggestions these days.
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"if something is easily countered but punishes you for not countering it, it's balanced"
It depends. If you can easily counter it and the other side cant counter the counter, its not balanced. Its weak and a noobstomper.
Spine chill is a good counter, bc the killer can counter it with looking away (except they need to stalk). If you couldnt counter spinechill and your power would be useless, it would be bad.
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See, I think it was made for stealth killers to use and hide, but seeing how it's usually used for basement camping I would make it so that if they're near (10-20 meters depending on which color UD) a hook/hooked survivor, it wouldn't work. However this might not work depending that Myers and Ghostie utilize it.
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I would be fine if they struggle, bc everyone is bad at the beginning, but if they complain (and die a lot/increase kill rate), some things dont get a buff or even get a nerf.
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My version of Undetectable would be:
- No Terror Radius
- No Red Stain
- Immunity to all detection and Aura Perks
- Footsteps and Killer breathing reduced by 50 %.
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Personally i dont see a problem with stealth killer camping. The hooked person can show it, kindred and i can take a hit.
Killer, who excel at hook defending like bubba, trickster, etc. are the real camping problem.
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idk
you should never ask if stealth is balanced to a doctor main XD
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I take issue with this for one reason - Wraith
Now, I'm not on the whole 'Wraith OP' wagon, but his breathing/snarling is one of the few tells you have to know when he's close by. Reducing that will be a problem, imo due to the fact that he's completely invisible beyond a certain point, moves incredibly fast and has addons to further strengthen these 2 areas of his kit
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They could change the undetectable status effect to work like Freddys passive masking ability where if a killer is "undetectable" then you cannot see them at all past a certain range. Maybe like 25m maximum. That gives Survivors enough warning imo especially if they are being chased. Less chances of killers being called out while roaming and makes it easier to progress the game as a stealth killer.
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I feel stealth really depends on the map. Certain indoor maps it can be powerful. Big open maps it's not very useful. I feel stealth is fine as it is. If new players struggle with it my opinion is learn to play the game.
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I'd say it's perfectly balanced as is
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I might have to move my mouse side to side when working on a gen.
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All I would change is Undetectable means crows do not fly away when you are near, or give Killer a Calm Spirit Perk. I run Clown with a 4 stack of Undetectable/Oblivious perks and I would give so many more circus nightmares if that dag blame crow didnt give me away.
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Blindness is even worse in that regard.
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This is same argument that Blindness status effect has. Its terrible vs SWF because they communicate where the player is downed and more effective vs solo. It is weak and noobstomper.
Unfortunately DBD balances around noobstomping hence why deathslinger, spirit and wraith are all receiving negative changes as all those killers are stealth killers.
I think only form of stealth that can potentially be viable in DBD is 1 shot stealth vs good players. Ghostface and Myers have 1 shot+stealth, but have many restrictions that make them ineffective at their job. Myer's problem is that he takes time to build up his 1 hit and when he 99% EV2->EV3, He is forced into being tier 3 for next 60 seconds. If Myers could cancel/turn off his tier 3, his version of stealth might be viable. Ghostface spends time stalking which gives away his position rendering his stealth ineffective and predictable. stretch res breaks GF
true effectiveness in stealth is suppose to be that you see killer and your down before you get to a loop. The way current killers use stealth is chase-enhancer. Its mainly used to get first hit, kinda like legion's power. For example, Spirit hits you, you become injured, she hears you(old stridor), than downs you. Deathslinger, he hits you, you become injured, his shot now becomes lethal. Wraith gets first hit, he sees you with all-seeing blood, you panic and fall for his lunge.
bottom line. stealth is not primary tool. Its secondary tool that empowers other tools.
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I mean, you could alter Wraith if it's to strong on him. But those things would make Undetectable an actual threat and buff weaker stealth Killers as well as Add-ons or Perks which give Undetectable.
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There should be a lower tier version of Undetectable with a different name.
Killers like Michael and Ghostface would be Undetectable type killers
Demo and killers that gain Undetectable via add-ons should have a lower tier version that is less potent and works with perks.
Undetectable should make mean you are quiet and that perks dont work to detect you.
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