Adressing the issues of Survivors

ad19970 said:

@Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:
Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:    Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: ad19970 said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:    ..        Oh come on. You're not being serious right? Or are you telling me killer mains can not be against camping and tunneling?

Of course they can be against it. Just like survivors are against completing gens. You would have a point if camping was the only way to get a kill, but it's not. Bad comparison.

Yeah, tunneling a gen isn't the only way to finish them. Doing them only 50% and leaving them alone is way more efficient...        Mmmh what? You hook someone and eventually dies, either because no one rescued or because you hook that survivor for a 2nd/3rd time. Gens don't get done by themselves.    I swear your comments were smarter before my ban.        Killer hooks someone, that survivor gets unhooked. Killer casually finds the same survivor = tunneling.     Gens need to be done by survivors. 

But I've never seen a survivor abandon a gen that was 80% done. They always stay close (camp) and continue (tunnel) the gen once the killer left. It's about perspective. If the killer does it, its despicable. If survivors do it, it's considered normal. But both sides do exactly the same thing.  If survivors remain close to the gen killer just need to look around and chase them, if killer decides to camp the gen be sure i'll go do another gen, have fun camping that gen! If killer camps a survivor for no reason yeah, it's kinda cheap because the chances of getting out alive are (almost) or non existent. If a survivor camps a gen killer has chances to chase and down that survivor, especially because that survivor will be close. No Tsulan, they are different things, it's not about perspective. No, you're right. It's not the same. Since survivors got perks like BT which aim exactly at unhooking camped survivors.  It's 4vs1 killer has to (I know this might surprise you) Kill. It doesn't matter how he achieves that goal. 

Survivors have to do gens. Doesn't matter how they achieve theirs.



BT is kinda useless when gates aren't open. And yes, killer has to kill doesn't matter how (i guess), that's why i just called it "cheap". But any killer who camps right off the bat without reasons clearly is not using all their potential. If you wanna get your kill that way then so be it...



BT has been recently buffed. So the killer has to hit that survivor twice no matter what. Of course, the survivors skill impacts here. Since a skilled survivor could loop a killer for several minutes.

Oh a killer needs a reason to kill? That's cute...

Not like his name is killer or anything...

If survivor loops the killer for several minutes that killer is bad, plain and simple.

No, i said a reason to camp. I get it if there are survivors close by, but staying there because killers feel like doing that? Those killers are simply not using their potential. But hey, i won't argue if you say that you have fun while staring at that hooked survivor for 2 minutes...

I never said that. I find camping utterly boring. I rarely camp. Usually only if someone pissed me off.
BUT I fully understand killers that do camp.

What do you understand? That they rather get bored and camp a survivor just to secure a kill because they are bad? In this case i totally agree.

That's the problem. I mean who knows if they are getting bored or if they enjoy camping. But why reward bad players with such an easy kill? That's not how online games should work honestly. Especially when considering that it ruins the fun for the survivor being camped.

ad19970 said:

@Tsulan said:
ad19970 said:

@Tsulan said:

ad19970 said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: ad19970 said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:    ..        Oh come on. You're not being serious right? Or are you telling me killer mains can not be against camping and tunneling?

Of course they can be against it. Just like survivors are against completing gens. You would have a point if camping was the only way to get a kill, but it's not. Bad comparison.

Yeah, tunneling a gen isn't the only way to finish them. Doing them only 50% and leaving them alone is way more efficient...



Tunneling a gen isn't even a thing. Completing a gen to 100% is something completely different than tunneling one survivor until he is dead. Cause that just ruins the experience of the survivor. Which is why I suggest to balance the game more so that killers have more incentive to not tunnel and less incentive to tunnel. I don't want killers to have less chances of getting kills, I just want it to be fairer and more fun for both sides.



Where is the lol button when you need it the most?!

Anyway, completing a gen and killing a survivor is exactly the same. Every side completing their only objective. 

Oh and ruining a survivors fun? That's cute. A few days ago I got called out for letting survivors escape on purpose. Btw, those very survivors didn't care at all about my fun. Even after making it clear, that I don't want to kill them. They insulted. 

Funny to think you need a lol button for that comment, but whatever.

Sure, you've got a point, it's similar. But there's no common sense for survivors to just leave a gen when it's almost repaired. And yes, there's no reason to ignore an injured survivor. No doubt. And you shouldn't. But killers have quite the incentive to just purposefully focus on one survivor, ignoring everyone else. That's the problem.

The difference is, completeing a gen doesn't make the game unfun for the killer. The game continues. Once a survivor is tunneled to death, the game is over and it wasn't very fun for him in most cases. I am not saying tunneling is a bad thing to do, I am saying this game would be better if there were more incentive for killers not to tunnel than to tunnel. Pretty much give killers the chances of getting kills without tunneling just like they do now with tunneling, and instead make it so that tunneling isn't quite as effective as it is now. Obviously this will never be totally fixable, but the devs could try and balance the game so not tunneling becomes more advantegous over tunneling than it is now.

I get there are survivors that don't want the killer to have fun. Something the devs hopefully adress as well. But this is about all the survivors who just want to play the game to have fun and can't because the game supports strategies that give the survivors no chance of having fun. Most people shouldn't suffer just because there are some toxic people in the community.

Devs addressed the issue of tunneling. By giving us BBQ. But survivors don't really like this perk. Some would even prefer a camping killer. Which led to its nerf. Kinda ridiculous btw.

A killed survivor can enter a new game instantly. I don't see an issue here. But survivors take it strangely personal if they get killed. Doesn't matter if they die at the start of the match or right in front of the opened gates. They are equally mad.

Yeah pretty sure the complaint with BBQ was that it made stealth more problematic, especially on Hillbilly, not that it made killers not camp. But BBQ is fine, no need to nerf it, and the locker change wasn't really a big nerf.
Being tunneled or camped from the get go, and then having to search for a new game isn't very fun though. Especially when it happens multiple times in a row.
I'm not talking about those survivors. There's a clear difference between dying because of getting camped and tunneled and dying to a fair killer. One game was still enjoyable, the other not. If people get mad just because they lost in general, that's their problem, and I'm definitely taking distance from those people. But every game has those types of people. Who just can't lose.

@Tsulan said:
ad19970 said:

@Tsulan said:

ad19970 said:

@Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: Vietfox said: @Tsulan said: Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:    Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:    Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: ad19970 said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:    ..        Oh come on. You're not being serious right? Or are you telling me killer mains can not be against camping and tunneling?

Of course they can be against it. Just like survivors are against completing gens. You would have a point if camping was the only way to get a kill, but it's not. Bad comparison.

Yeah, tunneling a gen isn't the only way to finish them. Doing them only 50% and leaving them alone is way more efficient...        Mmmh what? You hook someone and eventually dies, either because no one rescued or because you hook that survivor for a 2nd/3rd time. Gens don't get done by themselves.    I swear your comments were smarter before my ban.        Killer hooks someone, that survivor gets unhooked. Killer casually finds the same survivor = tunneling.     Gens need to be done by survivors. 

But I've never seen a survivor abandon a gen that was 80% done. They always stay close (camp) and continue (tunnel) the gen once the killer left. It's about perspective. If the killer does it, its despicable. If survivors do it, it's considered normal. But both sides do exactly the same thing.  If survivors remain close to the gen killer just need to look around and chase them, if killer decides to camp the gen be sure i'll go do another gen, have fun camping that gen! If killer camps a survivor for no reason yeah, it's kinda cheap because the chances of getting out alive are (almost) or non existent. If a survivor camps a gen killer has chances to chase and down that survivor, especially because that survivor will be close. No Tsulan, they are different things, it's not about perspective. No, you're right. It's not the same. Since survivors got perks like BT which aim exactly at unhooking camped survivors.  It's 4vs1 killer has to (I know this might surprise you) Kill. It doesn't matter how he achieves that goal. 

Survivors have to do gens. Doesn't matter how they achieve theirs.        BT is kinda useless when gates aren't open. And yes, killer has to kill doesn't matter how (i guess), that's why i just called it "cheap". But any killer who camps right off the bat without reasons clearly is not using all their potential. If you wanna get your kill that way then so be it...        BT has been recently buffed. So the killer has to hit that survivor twice no matter what. Of course, the survivors skill impacts here. Since a skilled survivor could loop a killer for several minutes.    Oh a killer needs a reason to kill? That's cute...

Not like his name is killer or anything... If survivor loops the killer for several minutes that killer is bad, plain and simple. No, i said a reason to camp. I get it if there are survivors close by, but staying there because killers feel like doing that? Those killers are simply not using their potential. But hey, i won't argue if you say that you have fun while staring at that hooked survivor for 2 minutes... I never said that. I find camping utterly boring. I rarely camp. Usually only if someone pissed me off.

BUT I fully understand killers that do camp.



What do you understand? That they rather get bored and camp a survivor just to secure a kill because they are bad? In this case i totally agree.



That's the problem. I mean who knows if they are getting bored or if they enjoy camping. But why reward bad players with such an easy kill? That's not how online games should work honestly. Especially when considering that it ruins the fun for the survivor being camped.



Killer tracked the survivor, chased them, downed them, hooked them, secured the kill = bad killer.

Survivor failed to avoid the killer. Failed to lose the killer = deserves a free unhook, because he's clearly more skilled. 

Chasing down one killer and finally hooking him is far easier than avoiding the killer and losing him in a chase. Just because he got downed once shouldn't be a reason to not get unhooked and to have the game end already. It's just no fun.

I mean sure stealthing isn't that hard, but at some point a killer will find a survivor, it's inevitable. Then he gets chased and eventually downed. And than that's it? That doesn't seem fair.

I'm sorry but one survivor isn't on the same power level as the killer, those times are no more.

I could name you some games, where you die even faster and there's no second chance.

Survivors shouldn't be able to 1v1 the killer. But they still can. Nothing changed in that regard. 

Tsulan the Wise.

ad19970 said:

@Nickenzie said:
Tsulan said:

The_Crusader said:

ad19970 said:

@Tsulan said:

ad19970 said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:

..



Oh come on. You're not being serious right? Or are you telling me killer mains can not be against camping and tunneling?

Of course they can be against it. Just like survivors are against completing gens.

Wut? Are you telling me a killer main being against camping is the equivalent of a survivor being against doing gens?

He is because thats what some people on here genuinely believe.

Tunneling is so widely used these days. Even if the killer wasn't tunneling at all. He gets accused of it. Same goes for camping.

How dare you not go a cross the map after you hooked someone?!

s/

That's not what I mean when I say camping. As you'll see in the changes I suggest.

ad19970 said:

@Vietfox said:

@ad19970 said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:
..

Oh come on. You're not being serious right? Or are you telling me killer mains can not be against camping and tunneling?

Some people like to use that picture when someone claims to be a killer main but don't support buffs for killers only. Same goes for survivors, but i don't see it that often.
@Tzeentchling9 is known for being an extremely killer sided member. To the point that i basically ignore him/her.

Yeah I know what the picture means, I just can't believe I'm being accused of pretending that I'm a killer main just because I want camping to be nerfed and the game to be improved. I don't get how some people can be so biased. I mean I'm even for a gen rush nerf, just camping and tunneling is a bigger problem of this game in my opinion. Getting camped means you can't even play properly.

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:
Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Losing Freddy is actually harder than any other killer.

There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses. Since everyone runs perks to prolong the chase.

Stealth just got buffed a few times in the past. But most people still don't play stealthy.

But the point was this "The chances of losing an equally skilled killer are much lower than him downing you".

"There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses" I see more iron will/urban evasion users than DS ones, so saying "no one uses" it's simply a lie.

There are also perks which encourage and reward leaving the hook but some people rather camp, even when they are running those perks.

Killer hooks survivor. Makes a 360 turn to scan for BBQ auras. None lit up. Survivors must be close. 

That damn camper! 
-.-

Yeah, you are purposely ignoring the new game mechanics to have an excuse to camp and you know it. It's not like they could be hidden in a locker, no!

@Master said:

It should be impossible to escape 3k hour guys who play this game as their living unless you are playing a SWF with 4 guys on the same level. Thats my opinion about this

3k hour people shouldn't be facing noobs just for easier games so they can brag about stomping said noobs. If you want to use that 3k hour example then they should only be playing against people with similar playtime.

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:
Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: Losing Freddy is actually harder than any other killer. There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses. Since everyone runs perks to prolong the chase. Stealth just got buffed a few times in the past. But most people still don't play stealthy. But the point was this "The chances of losing an equally skilled killer are much lower than him downing you". "There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses" I see more iron will/urban evasion users than DS ones, so saying "no one uses" it's simply a lie. There are also perks which encourage and reward leaving the hook but some people rather camp, even when they are running those perks. Killer hooks survivor. Makes a 360 turn to scan for BBQ auras. None lit up. Survivors must be close.  That damn camper! 

-.-



Yeah, you are purposely ignoring the new game mechanics to have an excuse to camp and you know it. It's not like they could be hidden in a locker, no!



BBQ helps survivors. Let's hide from it, so the killer won't leave the hook!

Duh logic 

Why check the gens, right?

Anyone who needs to rely on bbq to do well is simply bad. As a killer you already know where to check.

I totally agree! "Anyone who needs to rely on BBQ to do well is simply bad"
Totally! Especially since I said that BBQ helps survivors. It reduces camping. Bad survivors require that the killer is on the other end of the map, before they unhook. 
Good survivors can go in for the unhook, even if the killer is there.
At least that's what I do. But I also use BT, We'll make it, WGLF and Iron Will. 

"BBQ helps survivors" Yeah, that's why many killer mains got so upset after the locker changes lol.
"Good survivors can go in for the unhook, even if the killer is there." unless the gates are open that would be a pretty stupid move.
Seriously, at this point i'm not sure if you are trolling or simply lost. You guys have said for long how stupid is to rescue someone in front of the killer or hookswarming (which i completely agree) and now you say that's what good survivors do?

@Tsulan said:

HORRIBLE LOGICAL FALLACY DETECTED.

Killers shouldn't kill because it's despicable!
Duh

EVEN WORSE HORRIBLE LOGICAL FALLACY DETECTED.

I can't believe you did that 2x in a row and you just proved my points yet again about how biased you are. soi much so that you're going out of your way to post completely nonsensical stuff now in order to make yourself look good.

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:
Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:    Losing Freddy is actually harder than any other killer.    There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses. Since everyone runs perks to prolong the chase.    Stealth just got buffed a few times in the past. But most people still don't play stealthy.        But the point was this "The chances of losing an equally skilled killer are much lower than him downing you".    "There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses" I see more iron will/urban evasion users than DS ones, so saying "no one uses" it's simply a lie.    There are also perks which encourage and reward leaving the hook but some people rather camp, even when they are running those perks.        Killer hooks survivor. Makes a 360 turn to scan for BBQ auras. None lit up. Survivors must be close.     That damn camper! 

-.- Yeah, you are purposely ignoring the new game mechanics to have an excuse to camp and you know it. It's not like they could be hidden in a locker, no! BBQ helps survivors. Let's hide from it, so the killer won't leave the hook!

Duh logic 



Why check the gens, right?

Anyone who needs to rely on bbq to do well is simply bad. As a killer you already know where to check.



I totally agree! "Anyone who needs to rely on BBQ to do well is simply bad"

Totally! Especially since I said that BBQ helps survivors. It reduces camping. Bad survivors require that the killer is on the other end of the map, before they unhook. 

Good survivors can go in for the unhook, even if the killer is there.

At least that's what I do. But I also use BT, We'll make it, WGLF and Iron Will. 

"BBQ helps survivors" Yeah, that's why many killer mains got so upset after the locker changes lol.

"Good survivors can go in for the unhook, even if the killer is there." unless the gates are open that would be a pretty stupid move.

Seriously, at this point i'm not sure if you are trolling or simply lost. You guys have said for long how stupid is to rescue someone in front of the killer or hookswarming (which i completely agree) and now you say that's what good survivors do?

Hook diving without BT is bad. Period 

You compare someone who knows what he's doing and what risk he's running, with someone who doesn't and who goes in unprepared. 

Solid logic!
Duh

I was counting on BT already. Someone who knows what to do wouldn't rescue a camped survivor when there are gens yet to be done. One of them will get hooked, so it's way better to keep working on gens till killer decides to leave or gens are done, period.

@Severus_Swiggleton said:
I play both Killer and Survivor and while camping sucks...I don't get how it ruins games. You die, you move on to another game. Camping upsets me more when I'm not the person on the hook and I have a daily or something and can't get any hook saves. Even then if it's a camping killer I'll either sac myself(if I think it's just a lost game) or work on gens(if I think at least a hatch escape is possible).

Know what I really hate as a killer? Survivors looking back over their shoulders. Really what it amounts to is that survivors get no penalties for just about any action and the game is so non-stressful as a survivor that we can do things like look behind us while running with little to no issues. I think when a survivor is looking behind them they should suffer a speed penalty. At the very least there should be more intro and outro animations for some activities so survivors can't just ninja all over the game(without perks of course).

That said I think making Kindred part of the survivors base kit would be okay and kinda cool provided the killers got something to counterbalance it, like NOED as part of their base kit.

It ruins games because you can be very unlucky and it can occur several times in a row. Than you can't move to the next game.

@Master said:

@powerbats said:

@Master said:

It should be impossible to escape 3k hour guys who play this game as their living unless you are playing a SWF with 4 guys on the same level. Thats my opinion about this

3k hour people shouldn't be facing noobs just for easier games so they can brag about stomping said noobs. If you want to use that 3k hour example then they should only be playing against people with similar playtime.

Unfortunately the rank system has not been designed for that.

True but it's what we have to deal with for the moment until they come up with something better but here's what would need to happen to prevent that.

You'd have to match up those 4k hour players with players of the same general playtime although playtime doesn't always equal skill. Now if you lock people into say 500 hour or w/e hidden $ the devs would use you run into a huge problem of lobby times.

Because you might have a strata of 4k hour players that's limited to perhaps a few hundred as an example worldwide spread out. Those people are going to have really long lobby times similar to how League's high tiers have longer wait times due to the limited player pool.

Now if you add in actual skill together with time played you'd have a much wider pool of players that'd have more equal chances playing against each other. That's compared to now where say Marth runs into say a 200 hour player lobby and they get defenestrated.

@Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:
Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:

Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said: Vietfox said:

@Tsulan said:    Losing Freddy is actually harder than any other killer.    There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses. Since everyone runs perks to prolong the chase.    Stealth just got buffed a few times in the past. But most people still don't play stealthy.        But the point was this "The chances of losing an equally skilled killer are much lower than him downing you".    "There are tons of stealth perks, which no one uses" I see more iron will/urban evasion users than DS ones, so saying "no one uses" it's simply a lie.    There are also perks which encourage and reward leaving the hook but some people rather camp, even when they are running those perks.        Killer hooks survivor. Makes a 360 turn to scan for BBQ auras. None lit up. Survivors must be close.     That damn camper! 

-.- Yeah, you are purposely ignoring the new game mechanics to have an excuse to camp and you know it. It's not like they could be hidden in a locker, no! BBQ helps survivors. Let's hide from it, so the killer won't leave the hook!

Duh logic 



Why check the gens, right?

Anyone who needs to rely on bbq to do well is simply bad. As a killer you already know where to check.



I totally agree! "Anyone who needs to rely on BBQ to do well is simply bad"

Totally! Especially since I said that BBQ helps survivors. It reduces camping. Bad survivors require that the killer is on the other end of the map, before they unhook. 

Good survivors can go in for the unhook, even if the killer is there.

At least that's what I do. But I also use BT, We'll make it, WGLF and Iron Will. 

"BBQ helps survivors" Yeah, that's why many killer mains got so upset after the locker changes lol.

"Good survivors can go in for the unhook, even if the killer is there." unless the gates are open that would be a pretty stupid move.

Seriously, at this point i'm not sure if you are trolling or simply lost. You guys have said for long how stupid is to rescue someone in front of the killer or hookswarming (which i completely agree) and now you say that's what good survivors do?

Hook diving without BT is bad. Period 

You compare someone who knows what he's doing and what risk he's running, with someone who doesn't and who goes in unprepared. 

Solid logic!
Duh

I was counting on BT already. Someone who knows what to do wouldn't rescue a camped survivor when there are gens yet to be done. One of them will get hooked, so it's way better to keep working on gens till killer decides to leave or gens are done, period.

Its called trading.

Killer camp the first guy he downed, other survivors do gens until the guy on hook is about to die, then someone goes in and saves him with BT, the guy who goes in for the save, makes sure that the killer hits him twice after or while he saving the guy on hook, this way, they guy that was unhooked has time to run away, killer then has to choose between hooking the guy that he just downed, or go looking for the unhooked guy, if he hooks the guy he can camp again, but the hook bar is full, so all gens will be done by the time the new guy on hook is about to die.

You are right that 1 of them will be hooked, but you can always trade and force the killer to hook someone that is not about to die, this way you can keep the game as a 4 vs 1... So its not always better to work on gens at all times, you need to know when to leave the gen and do other stuff.