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Why wasn't the key nerf implemented immediately?
That's what happened with moris, right? Immediate nerf, with no notice. It was done on purpose to stop killers from spamming moris, since they weren't gonna be usable after the nerf. Why then were keys handled differently? I question so much of the double standards in this game. All I want is a little balance and consistency. Keys were ridiculously broken, and now we're getting half-measures on the nerf? Now, keys are just getting spammed in regular matches. Some matches contain multiple keys. Why did it take so long to nerf keys? Who knows? It didn't come soon enough, that's for sure. But now we see, without a shadow of a doubt: strong killer things get nerfed to the ground all of a sudden, and strong survivor things maybe get nerfed after people have saved the date.
Comments
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The worst thing is that everybody said "the key rework will take time, it's not a simple number change" when people questioned why weren't keys nerfed alongside Moris. A year passed and how they finally nerf it? Simple number change.
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Would've been nice
I remember when they announced the insta heal nerfs and holy ######### you played against 2 or 3 insta heals basically every game
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I thought I remember people complaining that every killer was using there Mori? #########? I even got the idea to burn all my keys before release day from killers using all there Mori's just before they got nerfed...
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Oh, for what, the 8 hours killers had to react? I've been dealing with keys for weeks because of this double standard announcement BS.
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Yes, I was gonna mention that. We're 0-2 for survivors getting to keep their overpowered things for weeks after the nerf announcement, compared to how killer stuff is treated.
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I mean, you answered your own question. One is a survivor item, the other is a killer offering... The only people who don't see the bias literally never will and everyone who noticed probably noticed a LONG time ago. Lol.
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Bc they're testing it on the ptb first. Just like most changes they make to the game.
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Probably because as much as killer mains like to whine, keys have never been as much of a problem as moris.
Moris just cut killer requirements by 1/3rd or even 2/3rd, while survivors only got to skip the gates (<1/6th), or as many gens as the killer has made kills. And keys still required coordination to get more than one person out.
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Don’t things being reworked take time?
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It wasn't reworked. They just changed some numbers. Hatch works same way.
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What if they were reworking it, got bored, and gave up? Just like they did with mmr!
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Its simple survivor waste more money in the game so they have better condition
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They had to change an achievement for that, which is something they extremely rarely do because the stated it's a pita on console.
It was also more complex technically, with new animations and interactions that could be bugged and necessitate to be tested on the ptb.
As oppose to moris that just required a simple value change.
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But it's so polarizing, what the game becomes when the key is in play. Kill 1 person, and everyone escapes with a key. They just have to do 4 gens and find hatch, which is as easy as breathing, especially with SWF and a hatch offering. What are killers supposed to do? Force a 4-man slug from the start?
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But then why announce something that's still in the works, and allow survivors to blow through their keys while they're still OP? It's a disaster waiting to happen, and they know it.
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The rework they're on about is like the next one to moris too in that they're becoming base game mechanics at a cost to strength. This numbers change isn't the final rework planned
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So now the survivors are going to "earn" a free hatch escape. This is the kind of stuff that makes me giggle.
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The reason is probably cause the key/hatch thing was tied to an achievement.
They can't just change that without permision like they can with mories.
Why they didn't just keep the hatch spawning when all gens are done and not worry about the achievement is something i don't know
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I'm not saying keys aren't a problem, but 'just do 4 gens' isn't always easy depending on the competence of the killer. It's not unusual for games to stall around the third gen, and at that point, the hatch can only spawn if there's three dead, in which case the key doesn't make a difference, or if there's two dead and one more gen gets done.
Keys did way less damage to the game than moris.
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IMO Moris needed the immediate Nerf way more than Keys. Killers are more likely to burn through their "soon-to-be-nerfed"-Stuff. Let alone that Moris were way more common than Keys (which is logical, given that the Ebony Mori is the most common one and Killers get so many BPs).
When it comes to Keys, I have the feeling (to make sure - only a feeling, I have no information at all) that this is more like a pushed-through Nerf instead of what they actually planned. Same like "Keys dont open the Hatch without Charges", which was just a reaction of the mechanic change of Franklins Demise.
So I guess their initial plan to nerf Keys was a different one.
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Because, as I said, it's a more technically complex change that they wanted to test on a ptb by the looks of it.
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So 4 people can still escape with one key?
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Why do you care? They were nerfed after all.
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Don’t let this stress you out. Key escapes don’t hurt you, and it doesn’t help them either. It’s a draw. Don’t look at it as you were robbed of a kill. Besides, from what I hear top MMR as killer is too damn stressful any way so these key escape draws may be doing you a favor. Also keep in mind 10 days from now, they’ll be pretty much useless.
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Survivors burn as much their "soon-to-be-nerfed" stuff as killers. We saw it with Instaheals back then. That's normal player behaviour and not tied to a role.
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I did not see many Instaheals back then when the Nerf was announced.
On the other hand, the number of Alchemist Ring-Blights when they announced changes to his Add Ons (and not even nerfing Alchemist Ring) was very high for some days.
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this isn't something that even needs to be tested.
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Probably because 4 people getting out cause of one item was ridiculous.
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No, they *will be* nerfed. I care because I'm still dealing with keys all night, because this simple change took a year to come up with and still isn't implemented, and survivors get plenty of notice so they're burning through them.
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Maybe because moris affect 4 players in a match and keys affect 1
I still agree i think they should have done both at the same time because they basically do the same thing.
Perhaps with keys though it has been an ongoing argument in the development team.
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You're taking the piss out of me, but I didn't say any of that, even though some of it is true. Many people thought key escapes being instant was stupid. We've seen the developers play, and it's not pretty. Most of the changes to killer over the years have been nerfs, or buffs that should have happened from the start so that the killer can actually play normally. You know, Wraith actually being fast while in cloak, Trapper having 2 traps in starting hand, Clown and Leatherface not slowing way the heck down to use their powers. The survivor changes on the other hand were nerfs that were absolutely necessary for the game's health, like removal of pallet vacuum and instaheals, or buffs that they didn't really need like Object getting an action speed boost or breakable walls reintroducing old god loops. The bias is observable.
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I think them changing the challenge is part of why it took a little while.
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So I just had 2 teammates who last second switched to a key. And all I gotta say is, the mid chapter can’t here freaking fast enough. I will NOT miss survivors abusing that.
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Okay? Then tell it to them, not me.
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This guy made a valid point:
But also, old moris were pretty bs. Being able to kill people immediately off of their first hook for a mere offering was extremely unbalanced and promoted camping and tunneling in an unhealthy way.
At least with keys, survivors need to get all gens done to spawn the hatch and it takes up an item slot. Keys still unfair? Yes but at least they're about to be changed finally. Hatch has been nerfed into the dirt and furthermore if a survivor does escape through hatch neither of you get a change to your MMR so hatch escape will be even more moot for both sides.
Seriously chill
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Well the ptb is a useless feature so you can argue that for literally everything on there. But the key change is no different than any other major change they make to the game so it won't be treated differently by just being put on live servers immediately.
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People keep acting as if nerfing hatch and keys is something special when it's not. Survivors are still escaping for free, with or without their item. Hatch ruins the endgame of matches. As we see now, moris are balanced, because they happen on death hook and take more time than just hooking someone. But keys and hatch are inherently broken and never will be balanced. We're not "making progress" with these changes. We're going 1 step forward, 2 steps back. It's such a joke.
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honestly this hatch change is more than I wanted so I'm satisified with it.
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But why put it in the PTB, also the hatch change is a number change
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Just BHVR thing. Pretty sure most forum users agree Key is busted and nerf of it was desperately needed and.. delayed so long and late.
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Too true and in the end this didn't even solve some of the issues with keys. 2.5s? Just hide from the killer for a little and its an easy key out.
Four people getting out required all the gens being done which more often than not means the game was gonna end in 4 escapes or 3 anyways. FOUR people getting out with a key is incredibly rare. Key present and all gens done? The common result is going out the door.
3 survivors 1 gen and you would have a leg to stand on. That is the situation people typically complained about, rightfully so. However, some people are complete morons though and will try to tunnel which is just going to LOWER the requirements to activate the key. So, half of the 'hurrdurr I'm gonna tunnel cus key' people are shooting themselves in the face and netting on solo queue randomness. In other words, not even the players that are actually going to be the issue. So, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Fixing keys so they had counterplay was simple. The devs just chose to remove it as a feature basically.
There could have been:
- Sizeable cooldowns between using hatch that give the killer time to react to hatch. Ex: 20s-30s.
- Longer key anim than currently. Ex: 5s-10s. Add in a ladder anim with it. So 5s to open, 5s for ladder.
- Regular hatch anim would have a 5s anim as above.
- Change Blood Amber effect.
I'd argue that would weaken them more than the buff that BHVR did because with those times it's your own fault if the survivors get out. 90% of the moaning about keys is by people that had lost anyways or want to play scummy and whine when that results in lower requirements. Those type of changes would lead to actual counterplay in the situation coupled with a little more content.
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To be fair they also created a new animation for key unlocking... So not JUST a number change...
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Because keys were fine as they were, and honestly don’t deserve the upcoming nerf. A mori cut a survivor’s gameplay by two thirds, keys currently only work after certain progressions have been made in the game that don’t really cut down on the match time for a killer.
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Holy sarcastic rant Batman!
Well done!!
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They still gave a lot of pity escapes after a 3 gen. You cannot tell me keys are healthy in their current state.
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I stand by my opinion. Three gens aren’t fun for either side, at least the hatch and keys prevent the game being held hostage in that situation. Even with the upcoming changes, nothing is being done about survivors meandering around to avoid being found in such situations.
Killers don’t need to 4K every game.
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A 3k is a win for me. If a survivor finds hatch than it’s whatever.
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You don't need to escape every game either. 2 or 3 of your teammates already got out. Why are you so entitled to escaping?
That's what it feels like when people say killers don't always have to get 4k's. What they mean is killers shouldn't even have a chance to get a 4k sometimes, that there should be something that trumps their skill, and in this case it's keys.
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Would be great if we could get some MOD OR DEV FEEDBACK ON THIS, but they are too busy replying to stuff that doesnt make them take responsibility for what they say/did. am tempted to start @-ing mods here to get some feedback but I know they would probs delete me and still not even look at the OP LMAO
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RNG decides EVERYTHING
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