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I need a pressure perk to counter a four-man squad.
Hex is useless to the squad and Pop is counted by Prove Thyself. What else should I use?
Comments
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Pop and Corrupt together
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Corrupt doesn't work against swf. They just afk 2 min.
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Then congrats you've bought yourself 2 minutes of time to set up, break walls, and start building momentum especially on high mobility killers. If survivors don't touch gens for the first 2 minutes it's done its job just as well as if they've all clustered together and you can chase them off the gen
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That is really, really good. You don't want them on gens, fam.
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No since u don't know are they doing gens or intentionally hiding and waiting. U can't just leave everything and go break all the walls. So it's not 2 min.
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So it bought you 2 minutes. I don't see the problem. Use these 2 minutes to find and chase survivors or for setup(if you play something like Trapper).
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I don't tell u it's a problem. But it's not a perk that pressures swf.
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Use the perk : "do not play killer"
You cannot counter a SWF, no matter how good you play and no matter the perks you use. They will outplay you 90% of the time. And for this they don't even need to be good in chases.
That's what is funny in DbD today. You just need communication and to do gens solo to get the 3 escapes.
Looping ? 90% of the survivors are trash at it, they just hold W and pre-drop pallets and as there are 15 pallets + 3 windows + 1 semi-infinite + the shack + boost perk + boost after the first hit + fast medkit healing, it's enough for the team to be able to do 10 generators.
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Here’s the thing, if they gave a perk that was strong with the 4v1, it would be to the detriment of soloQ which is why I can’t see them doing.
I think the 4v1 with swf on comms can easily break the game(not all swf, I know you were already typing) but they’ve shown no desire to balance toward high mmr and squads instead balancing around casual.
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Fact is you can't properly balance a game around average skill players, it will never work.
Because a bad player will still be a bad player, no matter the tweaks you bring on the table.
That's why you must balance the game towards high skilled players cause they optimize the gameplay, they know how to play.
If they really want to balance it for casual, they have to do two or even 3 groups where the balance is different. Higher you climb, less pallets/windows/items + some perks restrictions you have.
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Use Ruin, Undying, Pop, Corrupt on every killer.
They all use that build anyways.
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It does pressure swf, otherwise nobody would use it in tournaments. You can add lethal pursuer if you really think most swf would hide.
But a perk which would especially pressure swf is agitation. You can choose a good position to proxy camp and swf are altruistic and dont want anyone to die. But it depends on the killer how effective camping is.
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Add in lethal pursuer.
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Corrupt is fubar:
-At start you have to find/begin a chase on someone ASAP anyways. 2mins of some gen blocking has no effect on the others that you arent chasing, and at worst if swf on comms, just stacks several of them onto the remainder, and those gens finish faster.
-The notion that Corrupt "pressures" is misrepresented. It doesnt pressure Survivors except into directing that pressure into finishing the non-blocked gens, first.
-And if you are using Hexes with Corrupt, Survivors may choose to hunt Totems in those 2 mins instead, thus negating Corrupt effect AND the Hex perks.
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Rules of thumb with perks:
-Prefer inexhaustible perks that run the entire trial.
-Prefer perks that you can escalate the magnitude of with your own actions.
-Prefer perks that are systemically uncounterable.
- Prefer perks that leverage into end-game, which is often the most hectic and dire for Killer.
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Corrupting Intervention only slightly fills the third preference, and only for a limited duration at start of trial.
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I don’t think there is a perk that “pressures” survivors with you yourself going to pressure said generator. Sure some perks can deter a survivor from the gen but if they do not feel threatened by you, they will continue to repair.
I would say instead of relying on a perk alone rely on your senses. Your ability to see and hear. In terms of using perks, If you have Corrupt Intervention then it should be obvious that the first place you check is where gens are blocked, that’s normally where survivors spawn. Alternatively pair it with either Lethal or Whispers. I prefer Whispers because it last through the whole match.
I myself have never had any problem finding at least one survivor trying to look for a gen that isn’t blocked. They can only hide for so long.
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Then he's losing 2 perks in as many minutes and if they're remotely competent they're not gonna stay in the spawn once they notice corrupt so by the time he gets there on big maps they could be anywhere.
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Against swf who finishes games in minutes you need early pressure more then anything.
A good early game will do much more then something like pop where you get your first activation when 3 gens pop.
These perks might be "gone" in a few minutes but the early game pressure is something that snowballs throughout the match if you capitilize on it strong enough
Also 9 seconds of aura reading. You reach survivors before the aura reading goes away. There is no way you lose them even on big maps
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-Killers win by eliminating Survivors.
-Survivors win by completing Gens.
Thus it is in the Killers onus to focus on perks/playstyle that primarily are involved with eliminating Survivors, which is how a Killer "wins".
The strategies of instead preventing Survivors from completing their objective of Gen completion (to win) have merit, but are secondary to the primacy how a Killer "actually" wins.
Gen related action/perks is to delay Survivors winning, but is a losing premise in the long-run for the Killer.
Even if you delay Gen completion by X amount of time, it wont "win" you the match, unless you eliminate the Survivors.
Thats why the thumb-rule, that only 1/4 perk for gen delaying, and frankly even that is questionable as compared to an aggressive strategy with all 4 perks committed to eliminating Survivors ASAP.
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Lethal Pursuer is at the top of wasted perks slots, according to what I specifically outlined above as criteria for their selection.
Investing a perk for 9s aura detection at start is a crutch, and that "works" only then is innefficient. You should be finding atleast one Survivor within the first 20s, and even Whispers is better, as it will help you locate throughout the match, not just the first 9s.
You shouldnt need Lethal Pursuer to find your first Survivor in the first seconds of the game, and its a waste of a perk slot.
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If survivors suck at looping, you should be able to down survivors very easily, and thus they won't be able to just rush gens for long.
There is a fair amount of killers that can indeed deal with swf survivor teams, even if the chances of winning aren't as high as as the chances of the swf team winning. Unless you are playing on one of the sadly numerous survivor sided maps of course.
And no, it's not enough for them to do 10 gens. If an swf team could actually complete 10 gens agaist a killer, that killer just wasn't good at all.
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Ye tell this to Otz, Lilith and other high skilled killers, if they don't proxy camp and tunnel they barely get 6 hooks.
You guys are all completely delusional. The first to come here and cry for tunneling but the one who state everyday that the game is balanced.
Killers are tunneling as they are forced to do it at a fairly high MMR.
And survivors that can't loop can still hold you in chase for 1 min holding W and preshooting some pallets.
A killer hit gives the survivor a boost. If the survivor hold W, the killer needs 20 seconds to catch up. Add 20 seconds to get the first hit, 2 early pallet drops and you are at about 1min10 seconds. The survivor did nothing special and you get only one hook. All 4 survivors doing this = 4 hooks, 5 minutes lost, all gens done.
If y ou think it's wrong, either you don't play killer, either you don't play at high MMR, gens are flying at that level, at a speed never seen before SBMM.
I see you are playing killer, and some of your old thread was about Pinhead being awesome. Let me tell you, mmr up with pinhead and go play some high mmr games. You won't get more than 4 hooks if you play fairly, mark my words.
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Fortunatly, there is no "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" in DBD. Try builds like Corrupt, Pop, Ruin and Tinkerer. Wont get much better then that.
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Your bias is ridiculously blatant.
Looping is designed as a Survivor advantage past par, and its quadratic, because meanwhile 3 others do Gens.
Every second in looping by one Survivor, is at optimum combined 3s in Gen completion by the remainder.
You really should play Killer for a substantial part of time for you to understand what this status quo is.
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Finding a single survivor at the start isn't hard.
Finding a cluster of survivors instead of a lone single survivor is the difference between 3 gens popping in the first chase and 1-2 popping just cause you can instantly pressure as many survivors as possible. And if you have a particulary good early game you could very easilly stop any gen from popping early cause you roughly know where all the other survivors spawned and thus what gens they are working on
If you think lethal pursuer is only good at finding 1 survivor then you are simply not utilizing the perk properly.
especially against swf what the op is asking advice for as without it the survivor you easilly find in those 20 second you talk about will be their dedicated runner at a tile they are comfortable with.
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Immediate assumptions again just based on the fact that I don't think this game is as badly balanced. Sad.
And yes, I am a killer main, and I am currently maining Nemesis.
You do know that killers have abilities? Holding w and doing nothing else should not waste a minute of the killers time. Maybe against Nemesis when he takes 3 hits to down a survivor or M1 killers if you just chase the first survivor you find, but spreading damage is arguably better in that case.
Also, every time you hook a survivor, you are also creating a new objective for survivors. That slows gen progress down. Of course as killer you have to try and keep up pressure constantly.
Also, while I do think that camping and tunneling are a problem in this game, I do not complain that they should nerf those strategies, at least not proxy camping and perhaps also tunneling, in the current state of the game. If killers lower than A tier got buffs, and many of the maps would become more balanced, or if survivors got a second objective, than the devs would also have to look at camping and tunneling, and find ways to nerf those strategies.
I do understand that gens go fast, and that the game is survivor sided at the highest level of play, and that you sometimes just feel like you had no chance to win a match you just lost, but I also don't think it's that bad anymore. I definitely notice that pretty much every match I lose, I get outplayed or make certain mistakes. Now, I don't think that the distribution of outplays needed or mistakes allowed on both sides is equal, killer is certainly more punishing, but again, I also don't think it's that bad anymore, and if you play one of the stronger killers, you definitely can do well as killer on average as well.
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Deadlock, Discordance, STBL, Starstruck + Agitation, Haunted + Undying, Infectious fright.
Try to find the weak link, there is always one (unless it's "cOmP" team) and eliminate him, the 3 others will probably throw the game (or at least waste time) trying to protect him.
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That makes no sense.
It doesnt matter if there are 1-4 on a gen when you arrive, you can only chase one at a time.
If they are clustered, when you chase one of them, the others will either return to the gen or part of them split to do others.
This notion of "pressure" in this regard is a misnomer. You dont "pressure" anyone except the one you are chasing.
At start and commensurately, pressure is created only by hooking or downing and leaving Survivors so that they cant do Gens, and others have to pick them up off the ground or off a hook. THAT is pressure.
You are entirely wrong and backwards in your thinking of how Killer and Survivor objectives operate in parallax.
To put it short:
-Killer pressures Survivors by keeping them doing other things than Gens (which is how they win).
-You can only chase one at a time.
-But if you have 1 or more downed or hooked, THAT creates pressure for Survivors to stop doing their Gen objective. THAT is what pressure onto them, is.
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Certain Killers apply that pressure, by demanding Survivors to spend time elsewhere than on Gens, and that is what the real definition of "pressure" onto them is.
TLDR: Pressure is defined as all that which forces Survivors to use their time doing something else than Gens.
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God you people are so narrow minded if you think everyone who plays killer has to have the same, killer biased opinions.
I am a killer main, and that won't stop. Although I do try to play both sides pretty equally, but I do play killer just a bit more than survivor.
3 other survivors are doing gens at the start of the match, and only if you go for the first survivor you find. Not to mention that survivors don't always have the option to loop where no other survivors is working on a gen, especially if the survivors split up on 3 seperate gens.
And if a survivor is just holding w, the chances are even higher thart you will come along a gen that another survivor is wokring on.
And then, once you hook a survivor, you gain pressure, and if you are able to find a survivor until the other survivor is unhooked, and in many cases healed, only one other survivor is working on gens while you are chasing the third survivor.
Not to mention that killer gameplay isn't find a survivor, chase them, down them, find the next survivor, and repeat the same process. There is more to killer gameplay.
Again, I understand that DBD is still survivor sided at the highest level or play, but I don't think it's that bad anymore. You can definitely do faifrly well with the stronger killers.
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Nothing you said there refutes or contests what I said above.
Why then do you present it as somehow "different".
"Pressure" as I specifically stated, is all that which forces Survivors to do something else than Gens (which is their objective to win), whilst the Killers objective to win is to eliminate all the Survivors.
As I also said, the game is systemically skewed against the Killer, via many mechanics and the sheer fact of 1v4.
Either you misread what I said, or are contriving it for some ulterior motive.
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Ye okay, then play High MMR and record a win where you didn't tunnel and without the nurse. Enjoy your 5 gens done, doors at 99% in 5 minutes.
I don't know at what MMR you are playing but we clearly don't have the same experience about it. All survivors are bringing an item in most trials, they all have a green medkit, they all spread at start and do 4 different gens.
Even if you are a good killer, at high MMR you face good survivors that know to loop from average to really good level. You will never be able to down them in less than at least 40 seconds with any top A and lower tiers killers. When you will get your first hook, 3 gens will pop, period, it's how DbD is atm.
Time you go for another survivors, at least 2 and sometimes even 3 gens will be around 50%.
Do you think that high MMR survivors go all 3 to the save immediately ? They will optimize the hook time as long as possible, unhooking in the last 10 seconds before P2.
The first hooked survivor will be healed in no time with a medkit full of add-ons and start a gen right away, sometimes the survivor won't even heal...
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What are you talking about? You said when a killer is in a chase, 3 other survivors are working on gens. So every second a killer spends in a chase, survivors objective is advanced by 3 seconds. Ok you did say at optimum, so admittediely I overread that.
Nevertheless, this is what you based your claim on that this game is survivor sided, claiming that I don't play killer because I don't have the same opinion than you have.
But I do play killer, and I don't agree that this game is so unbalanced anymore. And I argued why this is the case in my opinion, killers spreading damage, applying map pressure, and giving survivors more objectives by hooking survivors.
I have no idea why you are saying that I am contriving it for an ulterior motive. I am giving you arguments to explain my viewpoints, because people like you always seem to believe people like me don't play killer just because they don't have opinions as favored to killers as people like you have.
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God why do I still even try ro argue with cry babies that have the mental maturity of a 10 year old?
Also, again, when did I ever say that tunneling needs to be nerfed? Honestly what the hell?
I have played at rank 1 before SBMM was active for quite a while. I don't know my current MMR right now, it's probably not max, but it's surely not all that low either. And I do believe I have gone against pretty efficient teams already. But it's hard to tell how efficient they were, because again, because I don't know my MMR. I do understand that I am not a perfect killer though, and don't immediately blame the game for my losses.
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So you are defending the tunneling mechanics ? For you it's fair and healthy for the game ?
Tunneling a survivor at every trial will make all survivors quit at one point. It's pretty boring to play when a survivor is tunneled to death and the others do nothing else but generators.
Survivors that perform greatly = gens are done in 5 minutes.
So, if you use tunneling and proxy camping to get your wins, it means the game is totally unbalanced. And if you don't do it you can't win. Just try it, no camp, no tunneling, do 10 trials and tell us how many you have won.
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Look, these are the stats for SBMM. Of course, they are not divided by SBMM level.
Still, average is 50%, even though we don't have the deviation, rendering those stats almost useless.
We all know that :
- at under average MMR, game is killer sided
- at above average MMR, the game is survivor sided
We can then easily take the shortcut : most trials at under average SBMM end up with 3 to 4 kills. It means that to get the 50% mark, above average SBMM trials end up with 0 to 1 kill most of the time.
Showing the global stats is BS.
Exemple to show how absurd it is :
Let's define the average salary of someone in a company of 10 workers.
1 earns 1 million $.
9 earn 1000$.
Average salary = 100 900 $
Pretty good company that pay well the employees but nope, 1 has an astonishing pay and all the others are almost homeless.
Let's wait to see if BHVR will release high SBMM stats, that's the only thing that matters and i'm pretty sure we are around 25% for this population.
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Corrupt is useless against high MMR teams unless you're Hag or Trapper. As soon as you get in a chase, they will bang out two gens before the Corrupt timer is even over. I prefer perks that end chases as fast as possible over showdowns
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Not a good team. That hasn't been the meta for at least a year. A good killer punishes that hard. You start the game with zero gens and someone on a hook if you try to wait out Corrupt and get found. Have to remember that a really experienced killer is going to know spawn points, and survivors aren't going to get very far from the spawns without scratch marks. Corrupt Intervention is mandatory against a good team.
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There's nothing.
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If you think you can counter a swf that wants to win you're banging your head against a brick wall. And honestly if there's any counter I'm pretty sure it's not worth the effort.
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AFK is a key to facing SWF. thank you
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hmmm I'd say corrupt intervention and whispers is still a solid combo. If u think that you'll be fine with just two other perks, then I'd give it a shot!
I haven't played the game in a while though so take my opinion with a grain of salt
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You really ought to re-read what I have said. I was very clear, succinct and factual in my posts.
You however, are operating off some "opinion" of your own, and in doing so, not answering nor refuting what I said.
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Quite seriously, best way to counter a SWF on voice team, is just to find the nearest gate, face the handle, tab out and watch netflix/youtube or do some homework.
They can then run around the Trial doing whatever they do, get nothing from you, and ask themselves afterwards "Is this what I want"
Having said that, its often worth it to try anyways as Killer, and not giveup too soon. Results can be surprising, especially if you have perks that are end-game oriented, and if you slot them, also mean its the last minutes of the game that can make the difference, especially against arrogant and bullying SWF voice comm abusers.
And perhaps nothing is more rewarding for a Killer, than to in end-game annihilate a SWF voice comm team despite their massive advantage, or atleast kill one to put a small dent in their hubris and inflated egos.
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I would use noed and infectious.
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Corrupt, Surge (if m1 killer), Pop, and probably some way to get free health states, like MYC or that one perk that makes your lunges further. I ran that on Wraith for a bit and did quite good, the lunge perk gives me 1 or 2 hits a game I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
Sloppy Butcher is also a really good perk, if you're m1 killer
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Whoever goes AFK will get put into the basement, or on top of the gen their buddies tried to finish. I’ll sit right there until it regresses, and make sure the AFK reaches struggle phase.
Most of my killers run Agi Grasp with Monstrous Shrine now. Then 1 slow down like Pop, Corrupt, Thana, etc. Works surprisingly well because you can attack survivors on objectives while carrying, or carry survivors straight to the basement. When they try to escape once (Players tend to do that) Shrine punishes them. Regardless their friends will come to the basement faster. They usually suffer the same fate. 😂
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Deadlock is a pretty sexy perk. Immediately blocks the most progressed gen after another is finished. If paired with Ruin, that shaves a good chunk off of the gen for free.
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No such thing as the weakest link when every SWF now holds W.
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I'm yet to see a single game as killer where I can't pinpoint a rough spawn location for survivors at the start of the match. Sure lethal removes the rough location and makes it certain but for the sake of a valuable perk slot that doesn't prevent them hiding or running away as soon as they realise you're coming or help you relocate them if they do I think lethal is a wasted slot.
And you definitely aren't crossing RPD Haddonfield or mother's dwelling with any killer not called Nurse Billy or Blight before they have time to leave.
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Get Surge and stop wasting time kicking gens
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SBTFL on killers who can preserve stacks works well since those SWFs usually taking hist in the chase and have BT.
So I'd rather bet on chase performance. Corrupt helps a bit. Plaything is good
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