Remove BLOODLUST! Give Survivors Stamina!
Have you noticed no matter what killer is added the problem stays the same?? Because it isn’t killer that’s the problem. It’s survivor! The devs won’t rework survivors because S Mains complain too much. Survivors complain about the “Big Three” (Nurse, Blight, and Spirit) because they’re the only killers mobile/nimble enough to keep up with them!!! That’s the truth!
Solution? Remove Bloodlust entirely. Give survivors a stamina bar! Rework Exhaustion!
Basically whenever a survivor is running, or performing a rushed action their stamina bar gets consumed. Once it’s fully depleted the survivor suffers from “Exhaustion”. Meaning they can’t used rush actions, or use exhaustion perks again until their stamina replenishes fully. Exhaustion perks will activate if you have any stamina left; However, the perks consume all stamina you do have. Applying “Exhaustion”. Meaning if someone used Balanced Landing with full stamina they will get that ridiculous head start, but now they’re sluggish at the insane tiles they always lure you towards. This pressures them to use the surrounding pallets to get away. Not to dance around insane tiles and pallets all day, running the killer for 5 minutes (This shouldn’t be possible!!). Sitting still, and crouching replenishes stamina quicker. Survivor perks like Vigil, Urban Evasion, and Fixated can be reworked to replenish stamina quicker under a given circumstance. Upon getting hit survivors get a burst of adrenaline. So some of their Stamina returns, and exhaustion is removed. This is to be fair to survivor so they can escape a killer that is persistent on downing them. This also works with Endurance. You can replenish stamina by taking more hits. I know… Even if players can now Smash Hit, Dead Hard, Balance Land multiple times under certain circumstances... The consequence is eventually they’ll receive penalties to their rushed actions! Rework Adrenaline so that it is the only “speed burst” perk that will refill your stamina bar fully with an added health state. As opposed to consuming the entire stamina bar like the other “speed burst” perks do.
Killer now becomes a matter of exhausting survivors to catch them easier. Killers must pressure survivors to rush until they’re too exhausted to rush anymore!
Survivor becomes a matter of managing stamina reserves to keep themselves from getting caught. Even if it means using additional health states to replenish the stamina to do more rush actions. Extending chases this way. As opposed to the busted exhaustion system that lets survivors loop killers for days..!
Comments
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That is a creative idea I'll give you that. Idk if it's a realistic idea for the game though.
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This is bad idea as you're now giving survivors potentially multiple uses of perks that should only be effective once during a chase and not addressed the actual underlying issues of what extends chases the longest: Rng in tile placement making some insanely strong setups and the fact that just running in a straight line survivors will outpace a killer for at least 20+ seconds even with Bloodlust as it is now. A good survivor is going to do what they always do and that's conserve resources till they reach a strong area. So your suggest removes the one thing that marginally is helpful to killers while making skilled survivors even more of a pain to deal with.
Lower skilled survivors aren't going benefit from this though and it is actually going to just hinder them as well. Because you have to learn that sort of self control in DBD and you have to learn to recognize strong tile setups. This will punish them for not having gained the knowledge or skill to play efficiently in chases. This suggestion would work better in Last Year Afterdark where you actions are more varied and the learning curve isn't as steep.
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It is because Friday the 13th did it just fine and if anything even with the stamina bar it was fair, if they did anything else to chases to make them not ring around the rosey EVERy chase it would be a little more fun
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Well I for one have played F13. I wouldn't say it was "just fine". It was okay, maybe not fair, but it was okay.
But that would be too much work and would just not be fun. Probably not even fair. I'm a killer main and that seems dreadful
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Not if they spice up the gameplay but imo they seem locked on something or just slugs. They keep saying over and over they aren't looking at new game modes right now...WHY?
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Giving survivors stamina would break the core looping mechanic that’s in the game. It would require reworks of basically every map. The will literally never do that.
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The “loop” mechanic already busted for any killer that isn’t the Big Three. Even with Bloodlust they cannot keep up with survivors at certain loops. 😂
It adds realism to the game. Every game has some sense of realism. How about you try running down a city block and see if you don’t get tired. Jump through a window, run around a building, and do it 3 more times. You’d eventually get tired as you run out of breath. Then the stalker gets you when you’re too tired to fight back. Heck, call it “Breath” as opposed to Stamina. You’re out of breath as they say. Let me catch my breath.
Ring Around the Rosie hoping that survivors make a tiny error is just dumb already. Some players will never make an error. So they’ll never get caught. There’s no fun in DBD anymore. So change the core to add spice to the game.
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It doesn’t matter if you do something like Dead Hard twice because your vault speed will eventually become too slow for doing that. The killer will get you unless you want to waste all the surrounding pallets. Hoping that they get stunned. There’s no need for killer to kick pallets if they’re forced to slow crawl across the pallet as a penalty for running out of “Breath”. Prime example is Pinhead. When he chains you around a loop he makes all your vaults slow. Pinhead often walks around the loop, and grabs the survivor a lot. That is exactly what would be happening with the new exhaustions vault penalty. You’d to be grabbed/hit by a killer that merely went to the other side of the loop as you slowly crawled along the pallet. As the killer base speed is faster. Range killers can just hit you altogether.
You cannot loop killers with slow vaults. They’ll catch you even without Bloodlust. I considered this idea after Pinhead came out. His methods of downing shed light on this idea.
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And what you failed to account for is that a lot of strong loopers don't blow pallets, there are maps with a considerable amount of palettes where this falls apart if they do drop the palette as you can't move around them you have to break it. Then there is the fact slow vaulting is a thing people do during chases and it actually does work under the right conditions which if people are able to put enough distant between themselves and the killer becomes pretty easy. You shouldn't be trying to vault something with Pinhead chains in you to begin with as you're actively being hindered same as if you got hit with Clown gas with flask of bleach addon. You can literally loop killers without vaulting a considerably amount of time even if they have bloodlust active and all you need to do is make it to a palette, stun them, and keep moving.
Pinhead still has to respect that. Heck, most killers have to respect the fact that running in a straight line just barely outpaces bloodlust and your suggestion won't help with either thing.
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Strong loopers don’t throw pallets often, yes. However, they do rely on vaults. Heavily. Like you said “Under certain circumstances” does the slow vault work. Slow vault doesn’t work every single time during a chase. Quick vaults do almost all of the time. Eventually the killer will chase you to a vault, or unsafe pallet. When that happens it becomes a matter of prediction. If the survivor fails their slow vaults they will certainly get downed.
Now, if you were to reveal footage of survivors consistently beating killers with ONLY slow vaults then I’d agree with you fully. You won’t ever see this in high level play. There’s never a time where survivors do slow vaults the entire trial, or if they’re forced to do so (Outside of Pinhead). It’s mixed in between the fast, and medium vaults.
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Then when it comes to insane amount of pallets the killers still have Enduring, Spirit Fury, and Brutal Strength. Then there’s Bamboozle and Crowd Control for the vaults. Killers would have an incentive to choose perks like those for chases over Hex Ruin/Undying all day.
If survivors momentum is not mitigated, or better yet balanced for the lower tier killers then this game will never be fair for any kill outside of the insanely mobile ones. 🥱
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So you're not going to get killers to run those perks anymore than they already do. Before you see that happen the issue of gens going too fast and chases being able to be dragged out to dumb degree by holding W against most of the killer cast would need to be sorted out. This isn't DBD circa 2017/2018 where palette destruction builds were actually a worthwhile time investment. Stamina system would fundamentally change how people respond in chases and at 5 years in you're going to have a hard time convincing people it is a good idea.
It does little to make a killer's play experience better and you'd only make the game aggravating for veteran survivors and more stressful for new players in a game where the learning curve is already weird. Survivor momentum isn't the factor that needs addressing, at least not in this way. It's overkill when making adjustments to tile and palette spawns, shortening the time it takes for killers to tier up bloodlust or making bloodlust give a better haste bonus in general at every tier. All of which are solutions that don't require making a new system and don't drastically change the established way the game is played. Before that though the gen times need to be looked at and made more reasonable so killers whose power isn't mobility based have better chances to thrive and Ruin wouldn't be such a necessity.
Not that Ruin does much these days other than bait a survivor into cleansing a totem which has gotten insanely easy to do.
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Interesting
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I've always thought it was funny that killers need even more help the worse they are. Have you spent a lot of time learning how to loop? Too bad, the game just rewards the bad killer and punishes you.
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Like it, in a way but I know this will never happen.
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Newer players would have to learn . The hard way like everyone else did. Veterans will have to adapt as they always have. The change to old Ruin proves that the devs don’t want survivor players to use any of their brain cells. To actually get better at the game. Hold W. Just run back to the regressing gen! Whereas killer has to calculate every little thing and one marginal error can ruin an entire game!
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Based off what you’re telling me is the only real thing affected by a significant change is the inflated egos of people that spent half a decade mastering something simple as survivor. Survivor doesn’t require much of a brain anymore after ruin had been changed. By managing stamina or “Breath” you would have to use more of your brain, and that irks players. Just like old Ruin probably did! If the game lagged terribly and caused me to miss great checks I ran Stake Out, maps, etc. I’m not the very best at this game, with 10,000 hours. However, I’m a gamer. For DBD all you need is common sense, and to know who you’re up against. You know the core of any game is bad when you have like 20 playable characters, and only 3 are viable. 😭
Veterans sweat too much. They act like every match is the olympics even when it’s all Pub Match. If you don’t want change just enjoy the ride that is DBD until it ends I suppose. DBD is ending soon unless a huge overhaul comes to it’s core to revitalize it.
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You're extremely attached to this idea that stamina management would matter in DBD when it wouldn't. DBD's not about to die anytime soon considering literally nothing else remotely challenges it in the asymmetrical horror genre. Every single game that could have challenged is either dead on arrival, in perpetual early access with no hope, or dying. Even other games that have been able to pull a major license to build the entire game around don't remotely match the numbers of dbd. Now, I'm not about to shill for Bhvr or DBD, but the numbers make it pretty clear that aside from the game just shutting down dbd's outlook is pretty good even with the myriad of flaws.
Veterans do sweat too much, but stamina ain't about to make them sweat any less because at a certain point if you don't sweat you basically don't have an actual game. Most veteran killers want to experiment and have chill games, but that simply isn't an option once you get to a certain rank. Now with MMR in effect if you play enough since the implementation is lackluster, in time every game is gonna be against sweaty players on both sides. Survivors having to manage stamina won't make a lick a difference when their only objective is to end the game with a sub five minute time.
You want to talk about game design then you should go back watch the multiple streams in which the devs have stated flat out that they're not trying to make a highly competitive game nor do they really balance for competitive play. They want the game to be feel fun, but fun for who? Nobody knows. Can't be for killers as they keep removing fun things that killers find fun. Survivors get a lot of things, but they don't get what they need which is a redesign of their main objectives to be more engaging than hold m1 and hold W. No matter what game you play when you're playing at a high level the viability of a lot of characters will drop off. DBD should have more viable killers, but that means making the killers better in ways that goes toward dealing with map pressure, gen control, generally mobility.
Again which a survivor stamina system does nothing about as it at best it is another band-aid over a cascade of bullet wounds.
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What happens when something is full of bullet holes? It bleeds out. In this sense more people are dissatisfied with DBD. People are leaving DBD until it improves, or changes. Change is DEFINITELY what DBD needs.
A bandaid over a wound is a step forward. Even you admit that such a change would improve the game, even if its just a little. Then you deny the aid altogether because it isn’t enough? Something is better than nothing. I’m just trying to understand that logic. You need tiny improvements to the core over time. As an overhaul would be too much for everyone all at once. If it’s a miracle you seek it won’t happen. The devs keep the game alive with all their cute cosmetics, but even that won’t save DBD once the game stops producing genuine content. Which it already did! The last legitimate killer in DBD imo was The Blight. All killers after Blight were lackluster, or just licensed. Back to back license killers too with Nemesis and Pinhead. I assume the next killer might also be licensed. I also figured DBD “ends” by the time the final book is available in the archives. If there’s no true change by then DBD will be “Dead By Daylight”. 😂
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I’ll give you an example of what I mean.
1.) Someone got hooked on the far side of some ridiculously large map like Red Forest. Everyone’s doing gens on the other side. Normally you would hold W all the way, probably running backwards, until you got into proximity of the killers TR. Right? Because you lose nothing for simply running at full speed. Especially if they’re on death hook. If Stamina/Breath existed running consumes your stamina over time. Let’s say by the time you reached the player you had half the stamina left. If the killer predicts that you’re becoming tired from running to the hooked player they’ll just pursue you until you’re completely exhausted. They’ll force a slow vault anywhere you take them.
When you’re healthy this penalty doesn’t mean much. As you gain stamina back. However, if you’re injured and exhausted you’re at greater risk. Players will have to take the extra time to heal, and skulk around to maintain their stamina. Especially while injured. Or just do gens. Killers that keep you injured, like The Plague, would benefit from this most certainly. You worry about her sickness AND exhaustion. So you never want to be chased by her if you’re completely sick. This would be same with other status effect killers like Clown, and Legion. Meaning if you’re healing or cleansing guess what? You’re not doing gens!
Ranged killers often force players to run around left and right to dodge the hatchets/knives. This would exhaust the player as they’re constantly moving. By the time you reach a vault, or unsafe pallet the killer wouldn’t need anymore ranged attacks with their slower speeds. They merely have to force the exhausted player to do a slow vault.
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Example 2
Players uses their friggin Dead Hard towards a pallet/vault to extend their chase to obscene limits, like all exhaustion perks. Again, with the change they can extend the chase for that one time. If they Dead Hard to an incoming vault guess what? It’ll be a slow vault. A killer could potentially lunge to hit them before they cross to the other side. They’d have to do Head Hard into a pallet stun; However, if even they manage that they’re now exhausted. Unless they have safe pallets available all around them all the vaults they take will be slow. As killer it’s a matter of forcing them to slow vault now, which is relatively easy.
The idea is cutting the time of chases down under the right conditions. All of which is more based off what survivors plan to do with their stamina, and how long killers keep survivors hurt. Specifically while injured. An issue is that injured survivors can run the killer just as long as they could while healthy. They actually benefit from injury via Dead Hard. Since the Dead Hard into a vault gives them distance plus a quick vault (Even more distance)! Since killers are forced to take the extra time to chase players after doing things like this a killer can’t catch players quickly enough to go protect their totems, gens, etc. Unless they’re insanely mobile to keep up (Nurse, Spirit, and Blight)… With this new exhaustion there’s a steady loss of their momentum before an inevitable hit, or down.
Post edited by WaveyTrey on0
