Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Iron Maiden Needs a Buff To Be Worth Using
Now this perk was created in order to counter the locker strategy to hide Auras, I get that and that's awesome, even more o that it came out with that new strategy. The problem is the Exposed status effect is not long enough to be useful, the Perk is mainly used to scare Survivors from using lockers so they'll stop hiding in there because they can be seen and are vulnerable but they are only vulnerable for a pathetic 15 seconds. Now if Survivors stop using lockers then yay job well done but then the Perk is useless because you're not using anymore, you could have used that slot for something more useful that will last more the whole game instead of several seconds. Once they stop hiding in lockers you don't need the perk anymore and even if they keep doing it then yolu only have 15 seconds to screw them over.Opening lockers faster is just to reduce the time wasted of frantically searching lockers and that is a strategy as well if someone is in a room with multiple lockers but that's rare and you can't force it.
This perk needs a 60 Exposed timer to be on par with other Exposed perks, why is this perk 15 seconds? I am very curious as to why this is 15 seconds, why is this one only 15 compared to the others that have 60, what was so over powered about this perk that it needed to be crap to be useable and therefore not useable?
If this was 60 seconds you can totally find that person and down them instead of maybe finding them and then chasing them oops the Exposed is gone you should have been faster. If this was 60 seconds then Basement plays ould be god-like, if someone goes to to save and you stop them and now they're on the hook instead and you leave but had no idea someone else was hiding in a locker then with 60 seconds you down both of them on the way back instead of tunneling the person who just got unhooked or wasting time on the person who saved them. This perk is not good enough to waste a slot on, I love Gimmicky perks but this is useless and I would never use it even though I really want to because of how weird it is. So please buff this or explain to the community on the decision for it to be 15 seconds and it had better be a damn good reason because the perk is useless and a waste of time for reasons I just covered. @not_Queen is there anything that can be said about this?
Comments
-
60 seconds for something that can proc exposed multiple times, at zero effort of the killer? Thats a terrible idea. Iron Maiden is a synergy perk, like many others. It synergizes very well with both the doctor and the huntress, covering two of their core weaknesses (survivors using lockers to avoid screaming, and the amount of time the huntress needs to waste restocking hatchets.) There are many other perks that are FAR more situational and much less rewarding for ANY killer, especially the dreaded surveillance. That said, iron maiden is far from useless in its current form, it just suits some killers a lot more than others.
3 -
@Ryuhi said:
60 seconds for something that can proc exposed multiple times, at zero effort of the killer? Thats a terrible idea. Iron Maiden is a synergy perk, like many others. It synergizes very well with both the doctor and the huntress, covering two of their core weaknesses (survivors using lockers to avoid screaming, and the amount of time the huntress needs to waste restocking hatchets.) There are many other perks that are FAR more situational and much less rewarding for ANY killer, especially the dreaded surveillance. That said, iron maiden is far from useless in its current form, it just suits some killers a lot more than others.Ok so this would be powerul on Doc for those reasons and that's awesome, so no other Killer can use it effectively. They said it was for the counter for BBQ and Chilli counter and it sucks for that but it's good for Doc, 1 positive and loads of negetives. It's obviously great for Huntress but would you really sacrifice 1 perk slot just to have faster reloaidng? 2 positives, one smaller than the other. Ok it can proc multiple times on Doc but you'd have idiot Survivors if it procked on every other killer, that's their fault not yours and not the perk. Once you see it's there on a normal Killer it would never be useful again during the match and that's a wasted slot. And if it's so powerful on Doc and should really only be used on Doc and Huntress then why are they exposed? It's still only 15 seconds and a good Survivor will not hide in a locker that hurts them even if it's to escape the Doc because that's stupid, just keep running once you know it exposes you.
This perk still has too many negetives to the positives and if the positives are only for 2 Killers then that's worse because this perk has no build to go in except for the BBQ and Chilli combo and it still sucks because it's only for 15 seconds and only for that one time and then it's not going to proc again for the rest of the match unless they're stupid and that's the8ir fault not yours nor the perk. And if you can catch them in 15 seconds then huzzah you must have been close by. Situational and Killer oriented, compared to perk builds and situational.
0 -
it retains a usefulness because it prevents them from using lockers, which is 1 of only 2 hard counters to BBQ (the other being distance, hiding behind gens only works against colorblind people like me sadly.) A lot of perks are built around their synergy with specific killers, and some of them can be entirely useless on others. Thats kinda the nature of creating a build in the first place. If you're just trying to shoehorn it in where it doesnt fit, of course its not going to give you stellar results. Its the same reason you wouldn't run something like territorial imperative on most killers, even though it is actually useful on a basement specific build for specific killers who can defend it well like the hag or bubba.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
it retains a usefulness because it prevents them from using lockers, which is 1 of only 2 hard counters to BBQ (the other being distance, hiding behind gens only works against colorblind people like me sadly.) A lot of perks are built around their synergy with specific killers, and some of them can be entirely useless on others. Thats kinda the nature of creating a build in the first place. If you're just trying to shoehorn it in where it doesnt fit, of course its not going to give you stellar results. Its the same reason you wouldn't run something like territorial imperative on most killers, even though it is actually useful on a basement specific build for specific killers who can defend it well like the hag or bubba.I love Basement builds so I can pull them off with anyone I want, if I'm not using Trapper I use Territorial and Make Your Choice to get the most out of it. I know when Freddy came out he brought Blood Warden and it's not that useful on him but it's useful on everyone else. A lot of perks don't work on Legion but work for everyone else and so forth. But shouldn't perks work with most killers? Why make a perk that can only be used effectively, for a small portion of that perk only work with one or two killers? The perk is so weak it can only be used on two people partially better than every other killer.A perk should not be made to specifically work on one or two killers and no one else because that means you have a perk that takes up space in the Bloodweb for everyone and if you do get it on the right killer then what, they're supposed to use it all the time? Waste a perk slot just to better at that killer when there are lots of other perks to use? Those two killers can use lots of perks but most killers can't use that one perk that two killers have?
Besides that isn't it just fair to make the perk useable for everyone or not even that but make the perk work the way it should work. If it's only for killers who can be juked by lockers or need locker assitance then why have the crappy Exposed? It's obviously not useful, just keep the Aura reading aspect and then it makes sense and there's nothing to complain about. This is about efficiency and fairness to the perk itself and to the Killers that use it. It's ability is so small and limited that it isn't justified to be the way it is. There are lots of perks that do small simple things but everyone can use them and they all do what they do effectively. Make the Exposed 45 sec if not 60 just make the Exposed actually useful or take it out, being the way it is just makes it want to be used by everyone but can only be used be few because of how awkward it is.
0 -
its still usable on every single killer (even legion can get info from it, as well as land an exposed hit in very rare circumstances. The counterplay its made for with legion is for people who time jumping into a locker just at the end of Legion's frenzy: think like how people use instant locker hops to juke the nurse's blink/billy & bubba's chainsaws/etc. If someone tried to do that while the killer is running Iron Maiden, they would be exposing themselves right next to the killer.
My understanding as to why this was introduced with the legion is because of the stun at the end of his frenzy, as well as his 110% MS and need to recharge his frenzy. A well timed locker juke would extend the chase as much as a successful pallet stun vs him, so they came up with a perk to prevent that situation. They then realized it was TOO situational (yet still less situational than the likes of slippery meat) and added the speedy locker check to give it more viability across the board and open additional synergies.
It is a niche perk to be sure, but its still more versatile than you're giving it credit for. Unfortunately there are a few god tier perks that tend to ruin a lot of the other ones, but there are plenty of people who get great results with more niche ones when they work them properly into a build.
0 -
Iron Maiden is a meme. It's a trash perk. You literally waste an extra perk slot to make BBQ functions how it did before essentially. The exposed needs to last longer and not tell the survivor they're exposed so that they don't know you have it until you at least get some value out of it. Currently as soon as they see the exposed effect they are never using a locker again.
2 -
So you agree that it is very situational and can be a completely wasted perk slot if no one uses a locker(which is fine) or does use one but you're not in range for the 15 sec so the Exposed is useless unless you're right next to them.> @Ryuhi said:
its still usable on every single killer (even legion can get info from it, as well as land an exposed hit in very rare circumstances. The counterplay its made for with legion is for people who time jumping into a locker just at the end of Legion's frenzy: think like how people use instant locker hops to juke the nurse's blink/billy & bubba's chainsaws/etc. If someone tried to do that while the killer is running Iron Maiden, they would be exposing themselves right next to the killer.
My understanding as to why this was introduced with the legion is because of the stun at the end of his frenzy, as well as his 110% MS and need to recharge his frenzy. A well timed locker juke would extend the chase as much as a successful pallet stun vs him, so they came up with a perk to prevent that situation. They then realized it was TOO situational (yet still less situational than the likes of slippery meat) and added the speedy locker check to give it more viability across the board and open additional synergies.
It is a niche perk to be sure, but its still more versatile than you're giving it credit for. Unfortunately there are a few god tier perks that tend to ruin a lot of the other ones, but there are plenty of people who get great results with more niche ones when they work them properly into a build.
0 -
no, i dont agree with that because it prevents them from being ABLE to use lockers. there's a difference between people not taking an option and denying their ability to do so. If you really think the duration for the exposed effect is weak, use the iridescent button, and get a frenzy hit on someone else after you get the notification. guaranteed to make em ######### their pants at least once.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
no, i dont agree with that because it prevents them from being ABLE to use lockers. there's a difference between people not taking an option and denying their ability to do so. If you really think the duration for the exposed effect is weak, use the iridescent button, and get a frenzy hit on someone else after you get the notification. guaranteed to make em ######### their pants at least once.Except that next frenzy hit does not count for an exposed hit so that's pretty meaningless. That iridescent button pinging their location is also on the verge of pointless as you can't even get to someone it's pinging in the normal range unless they just stand there like a doof, much less trying to reach a person it's pinging map wide. He gonna M1 chase them as a huntress with no hatchets at that point? Assuming they even stay there...
0 -
The comment about the button was that they will think that you're right near them, or even risk not knowing that you ARE near them. Monitor and Abuse is absurdly good on legion, so mindgames about his actual position can make survivors play very careful/scared, or power through it and ignore when he's actually very close. Its similar mindgames to the wraith's global bell addon: people are forced to ignore it due to its frequency, and thats how he gets it to work in his favor.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
The comment about the button was that they will think that you're right near them, or even risk not knowing that you ARE near them. Monitor and Abuse is absurdly good on legion, so mindgames about his actual position can make survivors play very careful/scared, or power through it and ignore when he's actually very close. Its similar mindgames to the wraith's global bell addon: people are forced to ignore it due to its frequency, and thats how he gets it to work in his favor.So you're essentially referring to ONLY a scare factor in this all, not actually any sort of strength of viability.
0 -
Iron Maiden is fine. 60 second Exposure is way too much time for little effort. Currently it is fine as it gives the Killer information, and then if they are near by they can attempt an insta-down.
It sucks on Legion though. That's for sure.
0 -
@Blueberry said:
@Ryuhi said:
The comment about the button was that they will think that you're right near them, or even risk not knowing that you ARE near them. Monitor and Abuse is absurdly good on legion, so mindgames about his actual position can make survivors play very careful/scared, or power through it and ignore when he's actually very close. Its similar mindgames to the wraith's global bell addon: people are forced to ignore it due to its frequency, and thats how he gets it to work in his favor.So you're essentially referring to ONLY a scare factor in this all, not actually any sort of strength of viability.
for legion specifically? yes. outside of the aforementioned locker juke scenarios i mentioned earlier, which most survivors don't even think to try anyway.
1 -
No. It increases speed searched and shows where and when a survivor goes in there. Maken ur choice requires you took someone and go far away and wait for it to be unhooked for a 60 second exposed. You lose 45 seconds of exposed but you don’t have to hook anyone or go far away and you can see which locker their in so😱get good scrub0
-
honestly, this perk will probaply never be worth using.
the simple fact that survivors get notified the killer runs it, once they leave a locker makes it activate a maximum of 4 times, as lockers are just way too unimportant for the survivors to ever go into a locker again this round.
eigther give it a complete rework or dont waste your time trying to buff it.
it will most certainly not be any better.2 -
Now that we have more than just Ryuhi and I the consensus is still saying that it is worthless for what it does for the most part. The Exposed is too crap to have so either remove it mor make it better. Scaring Survivors from lockers is fine but if you manage to scare all 4 by scaring just 1 because they're SWF means you accomplished your goal and now your perk is useless and does nothing. Yes you can say the same about totems but those are totems this is a situational perk.
The information is fine, you know where one of 4 Survivors are and that's awesome, you can hunt them down or just ignore them. But since it has Exposed it forces the Survivor to not use lockers anymore and incentivises you to hunt them, but it doesn't last long enough. Either get rid of it or buff it. The perk would go great with BBQ and Chilli if theyy weren't Exposed, everyone who was hiding in lockers would be revealed and you can continue hunting down everyone who left a locker every single time you hook someone. But because they are Exposed you don't get to do that because they won't do it anymore.
0 -
i literally just thought of that, but what IF, Iron Maiden actually reversed the latest locker buff?
it could look like this:
When a Survivor enters a Locker, their Aura is revealed to you for as long as they stay inside of it.
Also, this Perks allows any detection Perk or Ability to spot Survivors hiding in Lockers.
that way, it would counter out the latest locker buff, not give itself away instantly AND be worth using when combined with other aura reading perks like BBQ.
any thoughts on this?
(i might repost this as its own discussion, lets see how it works out)0 -
@HatCreature said:
Now that we have more than just Ryuhi and I the consensus is still saying that it is worthless for what it does for the most part. The Exposed is too crap to have so either remove it mor make it better. Scaring Survivors from lockers is fine but if you manage to scare all 4 by scaring just 1 because they're SWF means you accomplished your goal and now your perk is useless and does nothing. Yes you can say the same about totems but those are totems this is a situational perk.The information is fine, you know where one of 4 Survivors are and that's awesome, you can hunt them down or just ignore them. But since it has Exposed it forces the Survivor to not use lockers anymore and incentivises you to hunt them, but it doesn't last long enough. Either get rid of it or buff it. The perk would go great with BBQ and Chilli if theyy weren't Exposed, everyone who was hiding in lockers would be revealed and you can continue hunting down everyone who left a locker every single time you hook someone. But because they are Exposed you don't get to do that because they won't do it anymore.
or you could leave it as is and just... not use it? like everyone else does with any perks they disagree with?
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
Now that we have more than just Ryuhi and I the consensus is still saying that it is worthless for what it does for the most part. The Exposed is too crap to have so either remove it mor make it better. Scaring Survivors from lockers is fine but if you manage to scare all 4 by scaring just 1 because they're SWF means you accomplished your goal and now your perk is useless and does nothing. Yes you can say the same about totems but those are totems this is a situational perk.The information is fine, you know where one of 4 Survivors are and that's awesome, you can hunt them down or just ignore them. But since it has Exposed it forces the Survivor to not use lockers anymore and incentivises you to hunt them, but it doesn't last long enough. Either get rid of it or buff it. The perk would go great with BBQ and Chilli if theyy weren't Exposed, everyone who was hiding in lockers would be revealed and you can continue hunting down everyone who left a locker every single time you hook someone. But because they are Exposed you don't get to do that because they won't do it anymore.
or you could leave it as is and just... not use it? like everyone else does with any perks they disagree with?
So if something is broken, don't use it. Don't even try to fix it and make it actually worthwhile or work properly, great way to feel about problems. I like things that make sense and work the way they're supposed to, hence me making tthis discussion.
0 -
@Mister_xD said:
i literally just thought of that, but what IF, Iron Maiden actually reversed the latest locker buff?
it could look like this:
When a Survivor enters a Locker, their Aura is revealed to you for as long as they stay inside of it.
Also, this Perks allows any detection Perk or Ability to spot Survivors hiding in Lockers.
that way, it would counter out the latest locker buff, not give itself away instantly AND be worth using when combined with other aura reading perks like BBQ.
any thoughts on this?
(i might repost this as its own discussion, lets see how it works out)I thought this perk did that at first when it came out but was suprised to see what it actually did. If this perk worked like that then it would be too powerful, you could just grab people from lockers, no chase, basically an insta kill every time someone enters a locker. Yeah Exposed is like that but at least they can run away. With this idea they wouldn't know you can see them.
0 -
In case anyone reading this thread doesn't read my paragraphs here's a smaller version of an improvement.
Get rid of Exposed, this way they will keep using lockers and the perk stays useful throughout the match.
Or Buff Exposed to 60 sec to warrant the ability of Exposing them. This way they won't use lockers anymore and you have a chance at instadowning them.
0 -
@HatCreature said:
@Mister_xD said:
i literally just thought of that, but what IF, Iron Maiden actually reversed the latest locker buff?
it could look like this:
When a Survivor enters a Locker, their Aura is revealed to you for as long as they stay inside of it.
Also, this Perks allows any detection Perk or Ability to spot Survivors hiding in Lockers.
that way, it would counter out the latest locker buff, not give itself away instantly AND be worth using when combined with other aura reading perks like BBQ.
any thoughts on this?
(i might repost this as its own discussion, lets see how it works out)I thought this perk did that at first when it came out but was suprised to see what it actually did. If this perk worked like that then it would be too powerful, you could just grab people from lockers, no chase, basically an insta kill every time someone enters a locker. Yeah Exposed is like that but at least they can run away. With this idea they wouldn't know you can see them.
well, this was just a very quick thought of mine, but people would probaply still realyze very quick that you got the perk once you just walk across half the map and straight towards their locker.
besides that, you wouldnt be notified if anyone entered a locker, so youd have to be on an continuous lookout.
but yeah, maybe a limited aura reading time or revealed location everytime they enter and leave would be good too.1 -
@Mister_xD said:
@HatCreature said:
@Mister_xD said:
i literally just thought of that, but what IF, Iron Maiden actually reversed the latest locker buff?
it could look like this:
When a Survivor enters a Locker, their Aura is revealed to you for as long as they stay inside of it.
Also, this Perks allows any detection Perk or Ability to spot Survivors hiding in Lockers.
that way, it would counter out the latest locker buff, not give itself away instantly AND be worth using when combined with other aura reading perks like BBQ.
any thoughts on this?
(i might repost this as its own discussion, lets see how it works out)I thought this perk did that at first when it came out but was suprised to see what it actually did. If this perk worked like that then it would be too powerful, you could just grab people from lockers, no chase, basically an insta kill every time someone enters a locker. Yeah Exposed is like that but at least they can run away. With this idea they wouldn't know you can see them.
well, this was just a very quick thought of mine, but people would probaply still realyze very quick that you got the perk once you just walk across half the map and straight towards their locker.
besides that, you wouldnt be notified if anyone entered a locker, so youd have to be on an continuous lookout.
but yeah, maybe a limited aura reading time or revealed location everytime they enter and leave would be good too.Oh if it only had the Aura but no notification that would be balanced because someone can be in a locker but your POV is 1st person so you might not even see them because you're not looking that way. It can totally be paired with BBQ and every Aura perk and even with no Aura perks if they're always visible in the Locker because it would be like Object of Obsession, you don't always see that person's Aura if you're not looking for it.
1 -
It should reveal the aura of the survivor, not just his location.
Also make it 25 or 30 seconds and the perk should be perfectly usable.
1 -
@HatCreature said:
In case anyone reading this thread doesn't read my paragraphs here's a smaller version of an improvement.Get rid of Exposed, this way they will keep using lockers and the perk stays useful throughout the match.
Or Buff Exposed to 60 sec to warrant the ability of Exposing them. This way they won't use lockers anymore and you have a chance at instadowning them.
like i said before, there are other perks which do almost literally nothing. This perk at least has purposes and synergies with specific builds/killers. Perks like Surveillance, Slippery Meat, and Prove Thyself have absolutely none. Other perks like Lithe would be great if they actually worked properly, but there are bugs that prevent them from working consistently. Taking a new perk you don't like and demanding an absurd change to it is not productive.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
In case anyone reading this thread doesn't read my paragraphs here's a smaller version of an improvement.Get rid of Exposed, this way they will keep using lockers and the perk stays useful throughout the match.
Or Buff Exposed to 60 sec to warrant the ability of Exposing them. This way they won't use lockers anymore and you have a chance at instadowning them.
like i said before, there are other perks which do almost literally nothing. This perk at least has purposes and synergies with specific builds/killers. Perks like Surveillance, Slippery Meat, and Prove Thyself have absolutely none. Other perks like Lithe would be great if they actually worked properly, but there are bugs that prevent them from working consistently. Taking a new perk you don't like and demanding an absurd change to it is not productive.
So what's absurd? Taking away the Exposed so Survivors can continue using lockers and get more use out of the perk? Or Upping the Exposed so you can actually use the Exposed?
The Exposed can 25 sec, 45 sec it doesn't matter but give Killers a chance to use it if you're going to put it in. Why purposely make a perk with little use? This has synergy yes I get that but the implementation of Exposed breaks it because it's there and because it's not long enough.
If Exposed wasn't there then you can always get info from it every time soemone jumps in. Because Exposed is there they go in and never go back in, therefore it's a one time use with no real ability or momentum from it.
0 -
you honestly don't think a full minute is absurd for an effect that requires zero interaction from the killer? even make your choice requires they be far enough to not be able to visibly see who proced it, and once haunted ground is procced and its minute gone it is an empty perk slot. if you wanted to make any changes to it and have them be reasonable, it would be either not notifying the survivor its active, or extending the duration of the aura. Extending the exposed state a small amount would be fine, but no more than an additional 5-10 seconds.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
you honestly don't think a full minute is absurd for an effect that requires zero interaction from the killer? even make your choice requires they be far enough to not be able to visibly see who proced it, and once haunted ground is procced and its minute gone it is an empty perk slot. if you wanted to make any changes to it and have them be reasonable, it would be either not notifying the survivor its active, or extending the duration of the aura. Extending the exposed state a small amount would be fine, but no more than an additional 5-10 seconds.10 sec would be 25 sec, like I said in the post you replied to that would be fine. That would give the Killer a chance at using it. You could run over there and maybe get a down if you were close enough when it happened. Instead of running over there and it's gone. The point is to make Exposed useful or get rid of it.
And Haunted Grounds is a minute at tier 3, this perk has 15 on every tier. Also HG is a totem and all totems can be broken, HG is meant to be broken. This is a perk that scares away Survivors one time, Scares them, 1 time. Yay I scared someone, I'm totally going to win with this super edge now that no one is hiding in lockers, I can use BBQ now, yay.
0 -
Didn't even read everything after you said buff the timer to 60 sec, if you really think you should be punished that harshly for just hiding in a locker than you clearly don't know how to make reasonable changes. First off the entire perk is very balanced for its activation requirment; Also its not ment to give you a free down once they get out of a locker when out of your TR. For every exposed perk or ability there is a requirment that's reasonable for a long exposed timer. MYC still gives you a chance to hide and has a reasonable activation for what it gives you. Devor hope requires at least 3 tokens and the relative totem to not be destroyed. Haunted grounds needs to be activated by a survivor and is a one time use. So by these activations we can clearly see that any perk with such an easy activation should not have a long exposed timer. The main purpose of this perk is simply searching lockers, punishing locker jukes, and survivors trying to leave lockers as you check them; and believe it or not, its very effective for those tasks.0
-
you're not understanding my point: you want this perk to be much more powerful than it should be. 25 seconds would almost be half of two other perks that have actual downsides to them. The only downside to this one is that a survivor is not likely to proc it multiple times. Its still possible though.
You really want to force a longer exposed duration? remove the aura function, and require the killer be further away. or make it a hex totem. If you're not willing to do either of those, then you effectively want it to be stronger than every other exposed inducing perk in the game with less punishment than any of them.
also as to your comment about how it scares survivors a single time, welcome to Haunted Grounds. Once its procced, most people just hide for a minute and then resume their gen rushes and pallet loops. and the perk never comes back, and has zero other effects. and yet it can get a LOT done in a very small amount of time if things work out in the killer's favor with when it goes off.
0 -
@AChaoticKiller said:
Didn't even read everything after you said buff the timer to 60 sec, if you really think you should be punished that harshly for just hiding in a locker than you clearly don't know how to make reasonable changes. First off the entire perk is very balanced for its activation requirment; Also its not ment to give you a free down once they get out of a locker when out of your TR. For every exposed perk or ability there is a requirment that's reasonable for a long exposed timer. MYC still gives you a chance to hide and has a reasonable activation for what it gives you. Devor hope requires at least 3 tokens and the relative totem to not be destroyed. Haunted grounds needs to be activated by a survivor and is a one time use. So by these activations we can clearly see that any perk with such an easy activation should not have a long exposed timer. The main purpose of this perk is simply searching lockers, punishing locker jukes, and survivors trying to switch lockers as you check them; and believe it or not, its very effective for those tasks.Oh the locker jukes, is that even effective? I never get those against me, I see it in videos all the time but I always thought it was just something stupid to do because they were going down anyway, they were always injured. Has locker juking become a real problem that it needs a perk to help?
Also thanks for not having faith in me, I was was trying to say that the Exposed takes away the uuse of the Aura reading for the rest of the match because no one uses lockers anymore. If the Exposed was gone then you would get Auras of Survivors every time you hook someone because they would still be using lockers to hide in because there is no Exposed feature. Or a reasonable 25 sec to Exposed is fine because then it has merit, you have a chance to USE the Exposed, instead of it being that tiny gasp for breath that you can't reach because it's gone by the time you get there. But if this is locker Jukes, then I can't find any real use for this perk at all now. You can force Mad Grit to work but you can't force a locker Juke. You can force someone to hide in a locker to escape BBQ but then ba it's gone for the rest of the match, wasted perk slot.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
you're not understanding my point: you want this perk to be much more powerful than it should be. 25 seconds would almost be half of two other perks that have actual downsides to them. The only downside to this one is that a survivor is not likely to proc it multiple times. Its still possible though.You really want to force a longer exposed duration? remove the aura function, and require the killer be further away. or make it a hex totem. If you're not willing to do either of those, then you effectively want it to be stronger than every other exposed inducing perk in the game with less punishment than any of them.
also as to your comment about how it scares survivors a single time, welcome to Haunted Grounds. Once its procced, most people just hide for a minute and then resume their gen rushes and pallet loops. and the perk never comes back, and has zero other effects. and yet it can get a LOT done in a very small amount of time if things work out in the killer's favor with when it goes off.
Haunted Grounds give you 60 sec to look for someone, this has 15. I can see your point now, it was not clear at all because you weren't going in that direction until the very end. I get that other Exposed things have requirements, this has no requirement other than a Survivor trying to hide, it punishes them for hiding, why not go with it? Or, just take out the Exposed because it's weird and has no requirement that is justified to have a useable Exposed effect.
Giving it a distance and taking away the Aura makes it even less useful because you don't know which locker and you could be close to it. MYC is hook oriented and you know which hook, you don't know which locker and then it only has the tiers of locker opening speed and what good is that on anyone but Huntress?
Making it a totem and giving it 60 sec, why? Just don't hide in lockers and you will never be Exposed, get closer to the person being hooked, hide behind a Gen, you know use every strategy against BBQ because hiding in a locker is only useful against BBQ or hiding when in a chase but you don't bring in this perk for that reason because it may never happen and you screwed yourself for bringing it in. I mean it would be cool but why waste your perk slot for something that has a one time thing, maybe. And that's my point it's a one time thing, HG is a one time thing but it's a totem and it's a 60 sec trap they willingly put on themselves knowing full well it COULD be HG. They don't know you have Iron Maiden and when they do they just stop going in.
All your suggestions make it weaker, my 25 sec, or 45, or even taking away the Exposed makes it more viable for every Killer and actually useful. You haven't even commented on taking away the Exposed, is that so overpowered as well? Give it a cooldown of 60 sec so it only shows the first person who leaves the locker and not everyone who exited the locker because of BBQ.
0 -
Locker jukes are absolutely a thing against certain killers, since they can't do the grab animation while performing other actions, and sometimes have a longer recovery. Thats not to say it always works, but it can sometimes be the difference between an instadown and a single hit, or even in the case of tombstone myers a hook and a touch of death. The most common one is for the nurse, since she can't open lockers during a chain blink, but there are also times it can be used to avoid a chainsawing billy and buy just enough time for him to have to go for an m1 instead of the instadown saw he would have otherwise gotten. If a Pig is doing her lunge attack it can be used to dodge that as well. Even legion it can be used as a huge risk/reward hail mary if you suspect his frenzy is going to run out, especially if you're uninjured.
That said, it has absolutely zero effect on a lot of m1 killers, since they'll just grab you anyway. The trick is when they have a power that overrides their ability to interrupt grab while it is active.
1 -
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
you're not understanding my point: you want this perk to be much more powerful than it should be. 25 seconds would almost be half of two other perks that have actual downsides to them. The only downside to this one is that a survivor is not likely to proc it multiple times. Its still possible though.You really want to force a longer exposed duration? remove the aura function, and require the killer be further away. or make it a hex totem. If you're not willing to do either of those, then you effectively want it to be stronger than every other exposed inducing perk in the game with less punishment than any of them.
also as to your comment about how it scares survivors a single time, welcome to Haunted Grounds. Once its procced, most people just hide for a minute and then resume their gen rushes and pallet loops. and the perk never comes back, and has zero other effects. and yet it can get a LOT done in a very small amount of time if things work out in the killer's favor with when it goes off.
Haunted Grounds give you 60 sec to look for someone, this has 15. I can see your point now, it was not clear at all because you weren't going in that direction until the very end. I get that other Exposed things have requirements, this has no requirement other than a Survivor trying to hide, it punishes them for hiding, why not go with it? Or, just take out the Exposed because it's weird and has no requirement that is justified to have a useable Exposed effect.
Giving it a distance and taking away the Aura makes it even less useful because you don't know which locker and you could be close to it. MYC is hook oriented and you know which hook, you don't know which locker and then it only has the tiers of locker opening speed and what good is that on anyone but Huntress?
Making it a totem and giving it 60 sec, why? Just don't hide in lockers and you will never be Exposed, get closer to the person being hooked, hide behind a Gen, you know use every strategy against BBQ because hiding in a locker is only useful against BBQ or hiding when in a chase but you don't bring in this perk for that reason because it may never happen and you screwed yourself for bringing it in. I mean it would be cool but why waste your perk slot for something that has a one time thing, maybe. And that's my point it's a one time thing, HG is a one time thing but it's a totem and it's a 60 sec trap they willingly put on themselves knowing full well it COULD be HG. They don't know you have Iron Maiden and when they do they just stop going in.
All your suggestions make it weaker, my 25 sec, or 45, or even taking away the Exposed makes it more viable for every Killer and actually useful. You haven't even commented on taking away the Exposed, is that so overpowered as well? Give it a cooldown of 60 sec so it only shows the first person who leaves the locker and not everyone who exited the locker because of BBQ.
The point of my suggestions were that you are making unreasonable requests, especially considering how many downsides are present with other Exposed status perks. They actually were the EXACT downsides to those already existing perks. The fact that you consider them too weak means that you are not trying to balance this perk around the other existing ones, you simply want it to be more powerful so you can abuse it. Thats not how balancing gameplay works.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
Locker jukes are absolutely a thing against certain killers, since they can't do the grab animation while performing other actions, and sometimes have a longer recovery. Thats not to say it always works, but it can sometimes be the difference between an instadown and a single hit, or even in the case of tombstone myers a hook and a touch of death. The most common one is for the nurse, since she can't open lockers during a chain blink, but there are also times it can be used to avoid a chainsawing billy and buy just enough time for him to have to go for an m1 instead of the instadown saw he would have otherwise gotten. If a Pig is doing her lunge attack it can be used to dodge that as well. Even legion it can be used as a huge risk/reward hail mary if you suspect his frenzy is going to run out, especially if you're uninjured.That said, it has absolutely zero effect on a lot of m1 killers, since they'll just grab you anyway. The trick is when they have a power that overrides their ability to interrupt grab while it is active.
Ok this explains a lot, so use this perk on Killers that have abilities centered around a stun at the end because it encourage Survivors to hide in a locker to escape their wrath; but then they're Exposed. Ok I can get behind this, this is a new use for the perk that I had not seen before so that's cool. I can use this on LF, Hillbilly, maybe on Pig if I use the Ambush? I can see someone using this trick on Spirit, I never thought of using this trick on her but this could work as a Survivor maybe. And Legion like you said but probably not since the perk came with him. This gives it more use, not as much use as it should but this is cool, thanks I'll try this out when I get the perk on those types of killers.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
you're not understanding my point: you want this perk to be much more powerful than it should be. 25 seconds would almost be half of two other perks that have actual downsides to them. The only downside to this one is that a survivor is not likely to proc it multiple times. Its still possible though.You really want to force a longer exposed duration? remove the aura function, and require the killer be further away. or make it a hex totem. If you're not willing to do either of those, then you effectively want it to be stronger than every other exposed inducing perk in the game with less punishment than any of them.
also as to your comment about how it scares survivors a single time, welcome to Haunted Grounds. Once its procced, most people just hide for a minute and then resume their gen rushes and pallet loops. and the perk never comes back, and has zero other effects. and yet it can get a LOT done in a very small amount of time if things work out in the killer's favor with when it goes off.
Haunted Grounds give you 60 sec to look for someone, this has 15. I can see your point now, it was not clear at all because you weren't going in that direction until the very end. I get that other Exposed things have requirements, this has no requirement other than a Survivor trying to hide, it punishes them for hiding, why not go with it? Or, just take out the Exposed because it's weird and has no requirement that is justified to have a useable Exposed effect.
Giving it a distance and taking away the Aura makes it even less useful because you don't know which locker and you could be close to it. MYC is hook oriented and you know which hook, you don't know which locker and then it only has the tiers of locker opening speed and what good is that on anyone but Huntress?
Making it a totem and giving it 60 sec, why? Just don't hide in lockers and you will never be Exposed, get closer to the person being hooked, hide behind a Gen, you know use every strategy against BBQ because hiding in a locker is only useful against BBQ or hiding when in a chase but you don't bring in this perk for that reason because it may never happen and you screwed yourself for bringing it in. I mean it would be cool but why waste your perk slot for something that has a one time thing, maybe. And that's my point it's a one time thing, HG is a one time thing but it's a totem and it's a 60 sec trap they willingly put on themselves knowing full well it COULD be HG. They don't know you have Iron Maiden and when they do they just stop going in.
All your suggestions make it weaker, my 25 sec, or 45, or even taking away the Exposed makes it more viable for every Killer and actually useful. You haven't even commented on taking away the Exposed, is that so overpowered as well? Give it a cooldown of 60 sec so it only shows the first person who leaves the locker and not everyone who exited the locker because of BBQ.
The point of my suggestions were that you are making unreasonable requests, especially considering how many downsides are present with other Exposed status perks. They actually were the EXACT downsides to those already existing perks. The fact that you consider them too weak means that you are not trying to balance this perk around the other existing ones, you simply want it to be more powerful so you can abuse it. Thats not how balancing gameplay works.
I can see you were making a point but those downsides are not weak on the perks you mentioned. Having the distance for the hook is reasonable, it's fair. A totem is a totem, they break and it's meant to break. Both original perks yes have requirements and give you time to chase, this does not have requirements like those to warrant the prolonged Exposed timer for a chase. So take out Exposed and keep the Auras.
0 -
I would not recommend it vs the pig at all, since her ambush is currently hot garbage and almost never used outside of the first sneak attack of the game, or a pallet loop mindgame... that said, I have seen it happen before. If you wanted to try out the timing and/or punishing it with iron maiden, you'll definitely want to so a KYF with someone to get the timings down on either side.
1 -
Again the perk is not ment to be a reliable Insta down and is instead used for punishing players that decide to go into lockers near you. Again there has to be a good reason for a 1 minute exposed effect and punishing any locker interaction with such a long timer, even if they is no arua reading involved, is absurd. I would also like to point out that any perk that needs another to be used fully is something the devs will not do, they will also not do a change like this Becuase lockers are a main game mechanic. Making lockers go heavily against players, more-so than hex perks, is something that again, they will not do. (Would also like to point out that yes, players from all ranks go into lockers more often than you would think) the perk does what its ment to do, punish locker interactions near the killer and get you to players that avoided you with lockers.HatCreature said:@AChaoticKiller said:
Didn't even read everything after you said buff the timer to 60 sec, if you really think you should be punished that harshly for just hiding in a locker than you clearly don't know how to make reasonable changes. First off the entire perk is very balanced for its activation requirment; Also its not ment to give you a free down once they get out of a locker when out of your TR. For every exposed perk or ability there is a requirment that's reasonable for a long exposed timer. MYC still gives you a chance to hide and has a reasonable activation for what it gives you. Devor hope requires at least 3 tokens and the relative totem to not be destroyed. Haunted grounds needs to be activated by a survivor and is a one time use. So by these activations we can clearly see that any perk with such an easy activation should not have a long exposed timer. The main purpose of this perk is simply searching lockers, punishing locker jukes, and survivors trying to switch lockers as you check them; and believe it or not, its very effective for those tasks.Oh the locker jukes, is that even effective? I never get those against me, I see it in videos all the time but I always thought it was just something stupid to do because they were going down anyway, they were always injured. Has locker juking become a real problem that it needs a perk to help?
Also thanks for not having faith in me, I was was trying to say that the Exposed takes away the uuse of the Aura reading for the rest of the match because no one uses lockers anymore. If the Exposed was gone then you would get Auras of Survivors every time you hook someone because they would still be using lockers to hide in because there is no Exposed feature. Or a reasonable 25 sec to Exposed is fine because then it has merit, you have a chance to USE the Exposed, instead of it being that tiny gasp for breath that you can't reach because it's gone by the time you get there. But if this is locker Jukes, then I can't find any real use for this perk at all now. You can force Mad Grit to work but you can't force a locker Juke. You can force someone to hide in a locker to escape BBQ but then ba it's gone for the rest of the match, wasted perk slot.
Sorry for long post but I like to make my points clearI in discussions.1 -
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
you're not understanding my point: you want this perk to be much more powerful than it should be. 25 seconds would almost be half of two other perks that have actual downsides to them. The only downside to this one is that a survivor is not likely to proc it multiple times. Its still possible though.You really want to force a longer exposed duration? remove the aura function, and require the killer be further away. or make it a hex totem. If you're not willing to do either of those, then you effectively want it to be stronger than every other exposed inducing perk in the game with less punishment than any of them.
also as to your comment about how it scares survivors a single time, welcome to Haunted Grounds. Once its procced, most people just hide for a minute and then resume their gen rushes and pallet loops. and the perk never comes back, and has zero other effects. and yet it can get a LOT done in a very small amount of time if things work out in the killer's favor with when it goes off.
Haunted Grounds give you 60 sec to look for someone, this has 15. I can see your point now, it was not clear at all because you weren't going in that direction until the very end. I get that other Exposed things have requirements, this has no requirement other than a Survivor trying to hide, it punishes them for hiding, why not go with it? Or, just take out the Exposed because it's weird and has no requirement that is justified to have a useable Exposed effect.
Giving it a distance and taking away the Aura makes it even less useful because you don't know which locker and you could be close to it. MYC is hook oriented and you know which hook, you don't know which locker and then it only has the tiers of locker opening speed and what good is that on anyone but Huntress?
Making it a totem and giving it 60 sec, why? Just don't hide in lockers and you will never be Exposed, get closer to the person being hooked, hide behind a Gen, you know use every strategy against BBQ because hiding in a locker is only useful against BBQ or hiding when in a chase but you don't bring in this perk for that reason because it may never happen and you screwed yourself for bringing it in. I mean it would be cool but why waste your perk slot for something that has a one time thing, maybe. And that's my point it's a one time thing, HG is a one time thing but it's a totem and it's a 60 sec trap they willingly put on themselves knowing full well it COULD be HG. They don't know you have Iron Maiden and when they do they just stop going in.
All your suggestions make it weaker, my 25 sec, or 45, or even taking away the Exposed makes it more viable for every Killer and actually useful. You haven't even commented on taking away the Exposed, is that so overpowered as well? Give it a cooldown of 60 sec so it only shows the first person who leaves the locker and not everyone who exited the locker because of BBQ.
The point of my suggestions were that you are making unreasonable requests, especially considering how many downsides are present with other Exposed status perks. They actually were the EXACT downsides to those already existing perks. The fact that you consider them too weak means that you are not trying to balance this perk around the other existing ones, you simply want it to be more powerful so you can abuse it. Thats not how balancing gameplay works.
I can see you were making a point but those downsides are not weak on the perks you mentioned. Having the distance for the hook is reasonable, it's fair. A totem is a totem, they break and it's meant to break. Both original perks yes have requirements and give you time to chase, this does not have requirements like those to warrant the prolonged Exposed timer for a chase. So take out Exposed and keep the Auras.
The reason its harsh for MYC is because you can't see who actually does the unhook. SWFs will often have a "decoy" when they know you have the perk, and have them lead you away from both the person unhooked (who gets healed while you lead the chase) and the person who procced MYC. Even without that level of coordination, you're still guessing that the person you see in that area is the one who did the unhook. You have zero way to confirm it until you hit them and they either get downed, or don't.
In regards to totems, I didn't even mention Devour hope, the biggest risk reward of them all. you need to get 3 stacks before you even get your exposed status, and yet it is lit right from the very start. It can get disabled before it does a single effect. However it can also lead to essentially a mid game noed, and eventually enable flat out moris. But it has a very strong downside in how vulnerable it is due to the single totem while needing a buildup (AND survivors getting notifications once its going)
Iron Maiden has no such risks or real penalties to it, and such its rewards are more modest. They are there, but they are modest. While it might seem less useful other than certain builds and niche situations, it can't be disarmed, and it has no real downsides to its prerequisites.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
you're not understanding my point: you want this perk to be much more powerful than it should be. 25 seconds would almost be half of two other perks that have actual downsides to them. The only downside to this one is that a survivor is not likely to proc it multiple times. Its still possible though.You really want to force a longer exposed duration? remove the aura function, and require the killer be further away. or make it a hex totem. If you're not willing to do either of those, then you effectively want it to be stronger than every other exposed inducing perk in the game with less punishment than any of them.
also as to your comment about how it scares survivors a single time, welcome to Haunted Grounds. Once its procced, most people just hide for a minute and then resume their gen rushes and pallet loops. and the perk never comes back, and has zero other effects. and yet it can get a LOT done in a very small amount of time if things work out in the killer's favor with when it goes off.
Haunted Grounds give you 60 sec to look for someone, this has 15. I can see your point now, it was not clear at all because you weren't going in that direction until the very end. I get that other Exposed things have requirements, this has no requirement other than a Survivor trying to hide, it punishes them for hiding, why not go with it? Or, just take out the Exposed because it's weird and has no requirement that is justified to have a useable Exposed effect.
Giving it a distance and taking away the Aura makes it even less useful because you don't know which locker and you could be close to it. MYC is hook oriented and you know which hook, you don't know which locker and then it only has the tiers of locker opening speed and what good is that on anyone but Huntress?
Making it a totem and giving it 60 sec, why? Just don't hide in lockers and you will never be Exposed, get closer to the person being hooked, hide behind a Gen, you know use every strategy against BBQ because hiding in a locker is only useful against BBQ or hiding when in a chase but you don't bring in this perk for that reason because it may never happen and you screwed yourself for bringing it in. I mean it would be cool but why waste your perk slot for something that has a one time thing, maybe. And that's my point it's a one time thing, HG is a one time thing but it's a totem and it's a 60 sec trap they willingly put on themselves knowing full well it COULD be HG. They don't know you have Iron Maiden and when they do they just stop going in.
All your suggestions make it weaker, my 25 sec, or 45, or even taking away the Exposed makes it more viable for every Killer and actually useful. You haven't even commented on taking away the Exposed, is that so overpowered as well? Give it a cooldown of 60 sec so it only shows the first person who leaves the locker and not everyone who exited the locker because of BBQ.
The point of my suggestions were that you are making unreasonable requests, especially considering how many downsides are present with other Exposed status perks. They actually were the EXACT downsides to those already existing perks. The fact that you consider them too weak means that you are not trying to balance this perk around the other existing ones, you simply want it to be more powerful so you can abuse it. Thats not how balancing gameplay works.
I can see you were making a point but those downsides are not weak on the perks you mentioned. Having the distance for the hook is reasonable, it's fair. A totem is a totem, they break and it's meant to break. Both original perks yes have requirements and give you time to chase, this does not have requirements like those to warrant the prolonged Exposed timer for a chase. So take out Exposed and keep the Auras.
The reason its harsh for MYC is because you can't see who actually does the unhook. SWFs will often have a "decoy" when they know you have the perk, and have them lead you away from both the person unhooked (who gets healed while you lead the chase) and the person who procced MYC. Even without that level of coordination, you're still guessing that the person you see in that area is the one who did the unhook. You have zero way to confirm it until you hit them and they either get downed, or don't.
In regards to totems, I didn't even mention Devour hope, the biggest risk reward of them all. you need to get 3 stacks before you even get your exposed status, and yet it is lit right from the very start. It can get disabled before it does a single effect. However it can also lead to essentially a mid game noed, and eventually enable flat out moris. But it has a very strong downside in how vulnerable it is due to the single totem while needing a buildup (AND survivors getting notifications once its going)
Iron Maiden has no such risks or real penalties to it, and such its rewards are more modest. They are there, but they are modest. While it might seem less useful other than certain builds and niche situations, it can't be disarmed, and it has no real downsides to its prerequisites.
So they intentionally made another ######### perk with very limited use and gave Survivors powerful perks with lots of use in the same chapter. Hooray Behavior for not respecting Killers with a handshake but instead a pat on the back and a ''maybe next time, not this next time but one of the next times after this''. Everyone is ok with this? Is everyone ok with crappy perks, no one wants something fair but good?
0 -
I would completely change the perk to this:
Entering a locker causes a notification to the killer. While inside the locker the survivor's aura is exposed until he leaves the locker.
Once he leaves the locker, he gains exposed status for 20 seconds, but ALSO leaves no scratch marks for sprinting for 3 seconds.
This allows the killer to basically drop what he is doing to go get that noob, but also allows the survivor who was in a locker to escape a guaranteed down if he isn't an idiot for camping a locker for more than a few seconds.
0 -
the perk is good on Huntress, who is upper mid tier and considered fairly viable. It's also good on doctor, who is considered a much lower tier and it covers one of his bigger counterplays, potentially making him more viable overall. TBH I think its a fairly nice addition, even if its definitely a more niche perk. Then again, it feels like people sleep on Discordance a lot too, even though it gives the killer a lot of information each time it pops.
as for the new survivor's perks... breakdown is a bit of a super situational perk too. people try to combine it with sabo squadding a corner of the map to make it fairly safe, but it can just as easily be used to create a slug defense situation because of it if the killer plays things right (especially if they happen to have deerstalker and/or sloppy butcher.)
Aftercare is good, but again situational. You need to get the unhooks to benefit from it fully (or at least be unhooked by someone using it to get it partially) and it resets once you get hooked. That said, its also redundant for SWFs who use comms and already have that info anyway. Good but not amazing.
Distortion is also great but can be disarmed, which is a weird twist for a survivor perk. Since its window is up to 10 seconds, there are killers who can burn through them easily without even realizing it: Wraith with his "reveal within X range while cloaked" or the Pig's and Myers' equivalent addons are good examples.
Even just going off of things available to all killers, lets say the killer has bitter murmur and bbq and chilli... you complete the gen 11 seconds before the killer hooks someone? 2 tokens gone in less than a minute. Hopped in a locker vs someone using the afforementioned Iron maiden perk? there's a token too. Did you self care too close to someone who has nurses' calling? Minus one. Its actually a really good perk overall, but its hardly perfect. And like most of the more potent perks, it becomes useless once used up.
0 -
@Zavri said:
I would completely change the perk to this:Entering a locker causes a notification to the killer. While inside the locker the survivor's aura is exposed until he leaves the locker.
Once he leaves the locker, he gains exposed status for 20 seconds, but ALSO leaves no scratch marks for sprinting for 3 seconds.
This allows the killer to basically drop what he is doing to go get that noob, but also allows the survivor who was in a locker to escape a guaranteed down if he isn't an idiot for camping a locker for more than a few seconds.
I think this would be too powerful, you know they're in the locker and if they haven't figured out that you know they're in there they get grabbed. And if they did figure it out it would be too late because you can see them coming towards you and then bam, insta downed.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
the perk is good on Huntress, who is upper mid tier and considered fairly viable. It's also good on doctor, who is considered a much lower tier and it covers one of his bigger counterplays, potentially making him more viable overall. TBH I think its a fairly nice addition, even if its definitely a more niche perk. Then again, it feels like people sleep on Discordance a lot too, even though it gives the killer a lot of information each time it pops.as for the new survivor's perks... breakdown is a bit of a super situational perk too. people try to combine it with sabo squadding a corner of the map to make it fairly safe, but it can just as easily be used to create a slug defense situation because of it if the killer plays things right (especially if they happen to have deerstalker and/or sloppy butcher.)
Aftercare is good, but again situational. You need to get the unhooks to benefit from it fully (or at least be unhooked by someone using it to get it partially) and it resets once you get hooked. That said, its also redundant for SWFs who use comms and already have that info anyway. Good but not amazing.
Distortion is also great but can be disarmed, which is a weird twist for a survivor perk. Since its window is up to 10 seconds, there are killers who can burn through them easily without even realizing it: Wraith with his "reveal within X range while cloaked" or the Pig's and Myers' equivalent addons are good examples.
Even just going off of things available to all killers, lets say the killer has bitter murmur and bbq and chilli... you complete the gen 11 seconds before the killer hooks someone? 2 tokens gone in less than a minute. Hopped in a locker vs someone using the afforementioned Iron maiden perk? there's a token too. Did you self care too close to someone who has nurses' calling? Minus one. Its actually a really good perk overall, but its hardly perfect. And like most of the more potent perks, it becomes useless once used up.
I would say Aftercare is good if you're good, if you're sneaky or are just good at chases then this perk is super helpful. I've won many matches with it. Distortion is an ok perk, your aforementioned downsides is why. Breakdown is situational but it's a more common one than you'd think, sure you get unhooked and the hook breaks well soemone else might get downed near that hook and the Killer has to work harder to find a different hook or maybe there isn't one. You get farmed well the hook is gone and bam, more time for you buddies to help you if they're good. If you have Sabo and Aftercare from the dude you saved you could potentially break all nearby hooks while that guy or someone else is being chased. It's not a game winner but it helps.
The Survivor perks we got were great, they're balanced and powerful to use on many builds and even though they are situational they aren't a losing game if you don;t get use out of them. The Killer having that problem can definitley mean a losing game. Legion's best perk is Discordance, Mad Grit is a gimmick yeah but it's a gimmick that works and can be used effectively in a build. Iron Maiden is not like that. I only have Iron Maiden on Legion right now so I can't test it with anyone else but when I finally get it on someone I'll be testing it out more because I want to use it and I want to be wrong about this. But right now it is a crappy perk and should get fixing just like a lot of other perks are crap and need fixing.
0 -
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
the perk is good on Huntress, who is upper mid tier and considered fairly viable. It's also good on doctor, who is considered a much lower tier and it covers one of his bigger counterplays, potentially making him more viable overall. TBH I think its a fairly nice addition, even if its definitely a more niche perk. Then again, it feels like people sleep on Discordance a lot too, even though it gives the killer a lot of information each time it pops.as for the new survivor's perks... breakdown is a bit of a super situational perk too. people try to combine it with sabo squadding a corner of the map to make it fairly safe, but it can just as easily be used to create a slug defense situation because of it if the killer plays things right (especially if they happen to have deerstalker and/or sloppy butcher.)
Aftercare is good, but again situational. You need to get the unhooks to benefit from it fully (or at least be unhooked by someone using it to get it partially) and it resets once you get hooked. That said, its also redundant for SWFs who use comms and already have that info anyway. Good but not amazing.
Distortion is also great but can be disarmed, which is a weird twist for a survivor perk. Since its window is up to 10 seconds, there are killers who can burn through them easily without even realizing it: Wraith with his "reveal within X range while cloaked" or the Pig's and Myers' equivalent addons are good examples.
Even just going off of things available to all killers, lets say the killer has bitter murmur and bbq and chilli... you complete the gen 11 seconds before the killer hooks someone? 2 tokens gone in less than a minute. Hopped in a locker vs someone using the afforementioned Iron maiden perk? there's a token too. Did you self care too close to someone who has nurses' calling? Minus one. Its actually a really good perk overall, but its hardly perfect. And like most of the more potent perks, it becomes useless once used up.
I would say Aftercare is good if you're good, if you're sneaky or are just good at chases then this perk is super helpful. I've won many matches with it. Distortion is an ok perk, your aforementioned downsides is why. Breakdown is situational but it's a more common one than you'd think, sure you get unhooked and the hook breaks well soemone else might get downed near that hook and the Killer has to work harder to find a different hook or maybe there isn't one. You get farmed well the hook is gone and bam, more time for you buddies to help you if they're good. If you have Sabo and Aftercare from the dude you saved you could potentially break all nearby hooks while that guy or someone else is being chased. It's not a game winner but it helps.
The Survivor perks we got were great, they're balanced and powerful to use on many builds and even though they are situational they aren't a losing game if you don;t get use out of them. The Killer having that problem can definitley mean a losing game. Legion's best perk is Discordance, Mad Grit is a gimmick yeah but it's a gimmick that works and can be used effectively in a build. Iron Maiden is not like that. I only have Iron Maiden on Legion right now so I can't test it with anyone else but when I finally get it on someone I'll be testing it out more because I want to use it and I want to be wrong about this. But right now it is a crappy perk and should get fixing just like a lot of other perks are crap and need fixing.
Just remember that all 3 of the Hag's perks are Hex totems, and all 3 of the Wraith's are just tracking help. 2 out of 3 of the huntress' perks are considered pretty much useless, but especially on her given her movement speed. Its not exactly unfounded for a killer's base perks to not match them very well.
0 -
@Ryuhi said:
@HatCreature said:
@Ryuhi said:
the perk is good on Huntress, who is upper mid tier and considered fairly viable. It's also good on doctor, who is considered a much lower tier and it covers one of his bigger counterplays, potentially making him more viable overall. TBH I think its a fairly nice addition, even if its definitely a more niche perk. Then again, it feels like people sleep on Discordance a lot too, even though it gives the killer a lot of information each time it pops.as for the new survivor's perks... breakdown is a bit of a super situational perk too. people try to combine it with sabo squadding a corner of the map to make it fairly safe, but it can just as easily be used to create a slug defense situation because of it if the killer plays things right (especially if they happen to have deerstalker and/or sloppy butcher.)
Aftercare is good, but again situational. You need to get the unhooks to benefit from it fully (or at least be unhooked by someone using it to get it partially) and it resets once you get hooked. That said, its also redundant for SWFs who use comms and already have that info anyway. Good but not amazing.
Distortion is also great but can be disarmed, which is a weird twist for a survivor perk. Since its window is up to 10 seconds, there are killers who can burn through them easily without even realizing it: Wraith with his "reveal within X range while cloaked" or the Pig's and Myers' equivalent addons are good examples.
Even just going off of things available to all killers, lets say the killer has bitter murmur and bbq and chilli... you complete the gen 11 seconds before the killer hooks someone? 2 tokens gone in less than a minute. Hopped in a locker vs someone using the afforementioned Iron maiden perk? there's a token too. Did you self care too close to someone who has nurses' calling? Minus one. Its actually a really good perk overall, but its hardly perfect. And like most of the more potent perks, it becomes useless once used up.
I would say Aftercare is good if you're good, if you're sneaky or are just good at chases then this perk is super helpful. I've won many matches with it. Distortion is an ok perk, your aforementioned downsides is why. Breakdown is situational but it's a more common one than you'd think, sure you get unhooked and the hook breaks well soemone else might get downed near that hook and the Killer has to work harder to find a different hook or maybe there isn't one. You get farmed well the hook is gone and bam, more time for you buddies to help you if they're good. If you have Sabo and Aftercare from the dude you saved you could potentially break all nearby hooks while that guy or someone else is being chased. It's not a game winner but it helps.
The Survivor perks we got were great, they're balanced and powerful to use on many builds and even though they are situational they aren't a losing game if you don;t get use out of them. The Killer having that problem can definitley mean a losing game. Legion's best perk is Discordance, Mad Grit is a gimmick yeah but it's a gimmick that works and can be used effectively in a build. Iron Maiden is not like that. I only have Iron Maiden on Legion right now so I can't test it with anyone else but when I finally get it on someone I'll be testing it out more because I want to use it and I want to be wrong about this. But right now it is a crappy perk and should get fixing just like a lot of other perks are crap and need fixing.
Just remember that all 3 of the Hag's perks are Hex totems, and all 3 of the Wraith's are just tracking help. 2 out of 3 of the huntress' perks are considered pretty much useless, but especially on her given her movement speed. Its not exactly unfounded for a killer's base perks to not match them very well.
Well that I know, I'm not complaining about that, that's ok. People complain that Iron Maiden sucks with Legion despite being their perk but that's ok. I don't play Huntress but 2 of her 3 perks are good, well one is good and the other is ok, both go with other perks. I really enjoy Huntress Lullaby, it helped me with Leatherface when I was struggling to play him because I kept getting bleh perks. The moment I got it I was dominating and it helped me get better with him, now I don't need it it's just fun.
0 -
Huntress Lullaby is kinda terrible in even middle ranks, and is vastly outclassed by hex ruin (which shares its same weakness, but doesnt require stacks and has a MUCH greater chance of slowing down gens.)
Territorial imperative is bad for her because her walk speed is so slow she pretty much needs to camp a perimeter around the basement if she wants to be able to both proc it and get back in time, and its not a great perk in general (only really works on specific builds.)
As for the bloodlust one, its flawed in that it requires chases to go on for an extended period of time to even activate, and its effect can essentially be replicated by just learning how/when to mindgame with moonwalks. A good huntress is usually going to go for their shots at places where survivors can't dodge (while vaulting, right after dropping a pallet, etc) or at times where they have a tight window of opportunity the survivor won't be able to react to in time (strafing by a window, cornfield, etc) So the lack of stain has no real effect there.
0 -
Iron Maiden should be a baseline mechanic.
1 -
@Acromio said:
Iron Maiden should be a baseline mechanic.I was actually thinking about that today, it's so situational and niche that the best use for it cannot be forced and is a wasted perk slot at that point and the real use for it can be forced but is worthless; both wastes a slot. It should either be buffed, take out Expose or get rid of the perk entirely because there is no fair way to make this a base game thing.
0
