Killer MMR vs. Survivor MMR
Something I've learned is that in terms of determining your MMR for SBMM, 1 kill for a killer = 1 escape for a survivor in boosting your MMR. Something about how the killers are "playing four games, 1v4" and the survivors are "playing one game, 1v1".
Yet BHVR has stated multiple times, their end goal for balance is to try for matches to be a 2K on average.
Why, then, does getting a 2K shoot your MMR up into the stratosphere and send you to a 0K game?
Shouldn't a 2K give you 0 MMR points, since that's what you're intended to accomplish in an average match?
A 1K counts as a full win for you, when really it should just be losing less points.
Comments
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As far as I understand it:
- 1K is one win and 3 losess.
- 1K gives you a certain amount of points (lets say 10 for the sake of simple argument)
- 3 escapes subtracts a certain amount of points (let's say -10 x 3... so -30 points)
- 10 - 30 = -20
At the end of the match, it's a net loss of 20 points. So your MMR goes down by 20 points.
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You have explained killer MMR here:
I think survivor MMR should be affected by team results -> how many gens they did, how many escapes they had and game duration. You know, this is team game, not 1v1...
Killer MMR is good, but it works only if survivor MMR is correct.
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Killer MMR should be based on hooks. It will solve majority of complaints. And Survivors MMR should be on badge results (pips).
It will force killers to play more interesting way and survivors to be better.
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That's an absolutely terrible idea, the killer doesn't control how many hooks they get in a match. Survivors have to go for a save and not let their teammates die, and survivors equally have to not suicide themselves either out of spite or a failed attempt at making a Luck build work.
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And what's wrong with it? Want to climb Mmr- git gud. I mean actually good and not because u face camp survivors or afk untill your teammates open gates or bring keys.
Current system sucks. It doesn't show how good are players, it's only shows they understand how to abuse it. Difference between 2 hook face camping Bubba and 10 hook Bubba currently is 0.
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Are you asking what's wrong with... the killer win condition not being in the killer's hands...?
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that is why it needs to go off hooks, a killer wont get rewarded by face camping some one on the hook. if you want more hooks you will need to leave the hook so survivors can make saves
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How it's not in your hands? U still need to chase and kill survivors, but u need to be good at it and do it more than once per trial.
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It's not in your hands because it requires the survivors to do something specific, that might not even be the best decision at the time. Sometimes it's the better decision to let someone hit stage two, or even die on the hook- and again, sometimes survivors suicide on hook, or they're just not saved.
So survivors CAN make saves. That doesn't mean they will, and it doesn't mean a survivor won't kill themselves on hook if they're annoyed at your build, or your killer, or just at their teammates. You can't make the killer's win condition something they don't control. I empathise with the facecamping problem, but this isn't the solution.
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Yeah no.
Simple reasons -> kills are same for all killers, number of hooks is not same. You have killers way better with getting hooks, then you have Hag. I usually don't get over 8 hooks with her, just because I am not in control who will get on hook -> you step into my trap, you dead.
Survivors could also lower your MMR by dying on first hook, which is just stupid.
Another reason why number of hooks is bad idea. Do you really want to force killers into farming hooks on last survivors? Isn't better just finish the game and play next?
Your system force babysitting survivors. Oh no, you ######### up and let me down 3 survivors near basement and now I am forced to leave and let them recover, if I want to gain MMR?
Your idea is just bad.
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so are you saying that with most 2Ks, the killer SHOULD theoretically have no change or a small change?
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its not so much a face camping problem its more that no one should get good mmr for doing the bare minimum in a match both survivor or killer right now the current system on both sides rewards the person doing the minimum the most. so much so that right now it is actually better to not make a save because the first to die takes the biggest mmr hit and so on and so on.
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I think in the end the main issue right now is the rate of decay which comes down to adjustments to the numerical values that are asigned to a "Kill" or an "Escape".
The question should be how often does a "good performance" of a survivor lead to an escape compared to how good is a Killer getting a kill. As soon as you adjust the numbers a bit the system will result in better quality.
Also...maybe they should add a "wonky wensday" or something like that where SBMM is disabled and everybody just goes at whatever other side is avaiable at the time. Just for funs sake.
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That's comment from Dev Community Manager. So it should be correct.
Problem is we don't know what counts as better and equal. Just 1 MMR difference is better / worse, or 100 is still equal? It probably scales based on difference, that's how I would do it at least.
So yeah, it should be either 0, or small changes. Thing is, if you have 2k avarage, then by their logic is where you are supposed to be, so it would be dumb to change your MMR for it, right?
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i could see this if it was hook STAGES, so if you get 8 hooks, everyone hooked twice, it's not the same as a game where you just afk, which it currently is
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I think this type of play should be more rewarding than camping or just escaping. Mb not everyone but players will run away if camping/face camping becomes meta. It gets boring very fast.
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As I said before, that system is bad and force killers into babysitting survivors, which I just don't like. Survivors don't need to do it anymore. They can just escape after 5 minutes, so why should killer do it?
It would fix my loop hole for lowering MMR on some killers tho, where I just play for dead hook everyone, show them I can kill them to assert some dominance and then let them leave.
That's why I like separate MMR for killers. I can create killers with high MMR when I want hard games for training and I can have easy games when I just wanna chill and play with meme builds.
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nah I'm saying hook STAGES, so if you down everyone in the first 30 seconds and hook them all, that's 4 hooks but that's 12 hook stages, you see?
so if you hook 10 people, that's 2 kills, and if you facecamp 2 guys out of the game, that's also 2 kills, but it's 6 hook stages and therefore worse than 10 hook stages
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Not a single game has MMR per character. It's not worth investing so much in so little. This is not gonna happen.
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also the seperate MMR for killers is really annoying because of how they decided if you had 1 good killer then every killer should start in astronomically high MMR and you have to go through a bunch of matches to get them back to a playable level that is actually appropriate to your skill
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uhh, this game already does have that.
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I don't actually hate that as a secondary thing the MMR system could look at, but it should still fundamentally give the most weight to kills and escapes, since those are the objective.
It could do with some more nuance, but the only reason it's even a problem at all is because of a few imbalanced options either side has access to. With the overall balance of the game adjusted, this system would work perfectly adequately.
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sure, but basing it off of actual hooking makes it so your MMR really isn't in your hands, you rely on the survivors to save at opportune times so that you can actually get that many hooks rather than ragequitting or just not saving anyone
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Oh got it, so you can from different sides.
He wants to punish killers that don't farm everyone and secure kill with camping.
You want to reward killer that actually did good, but just didn't manage to finish survivors.
Yeah, you got high MMR from start, so even if you are not that good your games will be hard, but it is definetly better in long run, then just 1 MMR for all killers.
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What do you mean?
SBMM is working with different MMR for each killer. That's why they made it that you are not able to switch between killers in lobby.
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And why is it bad that a facecamping Bubba goes up in mmr?
If a facecamping killer goes down in mmr they'll keep facing survivors that don't know how to deal with it. You are just rewarding their behaviour at that point.
After a while low mmr is just going to be infested by those kind of players and good luck getting out of low mmr as a survivor then.
It's good that a facecamping bubba who gets more then 1 kill goes up in mmr and eventually starts facing survivors who know how to deal with facecamping.
Then the person facecamping might think to adjust their playstyle. They never will if you just give them less experienced survivors against who facecamping works.
Ya'll seriously need to stop thinking mmr is there to stroke peoples ego. It's not an indication of skill. It never was. It's just there so by avarage you'll win about as much as you'll lose. No matter how you play
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it's not an indication of skill
SKILL-based matchmaking would like a word with you
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Survivors are the only ones who reward my behavior. Not mmr. Lol.
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Because if game will be balanced around face camping and promotes such a play as most efficient strategy enjoy playing it alone.
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They chose a poor name that's true
If it would go by hookstates and you keep facing worse and worse survivors by facecamping it would reward you.
Right now if you get tons if kills by facecamping you eventually face survivors who know how to deal with it and you either change your strategy or be content with the 1 or 2 k you're getting each game
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I don't think you understand his point.
There is no reward of it other than getting better survivors.
You don't see any number for ego boost, you don't get any rewards like BP / Charms etc for it.
He is definetly not getting rewarded, because he will not get into max grade with this, so he will get less BP. He also gets less BP for each game.
You don't want to lower MMR for camping, because camping strategy would work for them more and more. You would let them farm baby survivors and that's just bad. Killer is not going to be the one with bad experience, survivors will.
It's way better to give him MMR, so he gets against better survivors that will gen rush the ######### out of him for it.
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Why do you think the game will be balanced around facecamping?
Cause a player who facecamps eventually has to face players who can deal with it?
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Man, it's boring to play when u play against face camper. We trade one survivor and go away. Match lasts less than 5-6 min noone being chased except first survivor. Mb first 5/10/15/20 games but then it's *Oh, face camper....Time go leave*
Because it's worth doing at any MMR level. U always get 1-2K no matter how good everyone is. It's ok if u do it sometimes, but as main strat it's not healthy way to encourage players to play the game.
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And how do you want to do that with ppl who DC or die before the match is over and leave to hop into the next game?
If those people don't wait for the previous match to be over, how would that effect their mmr? This suggestion would simply never work.
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Why not?
I doubt one game affects your MMR in drastic way, it can be change based on game results, even when you are already in different game.
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nah, either you're lying or you don't understand how it works, but either way you're wrong
higher MMR = higher skill level, which you said yourself, if the facecamping bubba increases his MMR then he's fighting survivors who are better.
if MMR wasn't an indication of skill, then how would this theoretical killer ever face better survivors when his MMR rose? he wouldn't.
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if one guy DCs then it should lower the influence penalties have on MMR for the rest of the match, i.e. dying should lower your MMR a lot less after a DC because it's not showing your lack of skill when a teammate just leaves
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And what about if someone gets tunneled out of the game early and doesn't watch the rest of the game cause why should they? How would this person get an mmr rating from this match if he doesn't wait for the endgame results (gens done, chase time etc.) cause if his mmr just lowers cause he died first, we have the same situation we have rn with the current mmr.
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why would he need to stay in the match to see the endgame results? the server sees the match results when it ends and alters his MMR accordingly. MMR isn't such a massively urgent thing it has to be updated every second, it can wait a few minutes
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Still doesn't take away that a facecamping bubba having to face better survivors that can deal with that cheese strat is way better then that facecamping bubba facing weaker and weaker survivors who will then be stuck in a mmr where it's infested with those kind of players.
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Code it so facecamping counts as zero. Zero MMR, zero BP, zero everything else. I can ensure u none is going to face camp if he gets nothing in reward.
Currently players think they win* so they keep doing it. They get MMR, get some BP points and go next. If u cut it all to zero it will end.
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I think you are highly overestimating bhvr's coding capability lol
They don't even have a way to record games on their end to ban hackers like most pvp games have. We don't even have the feature ingame to replay matches and you think they could make a system that tracks previous games to change thousands of peoples mmr from games that are already over?
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Cause all the ways they tried to detect and punish facecamping in the past worked so well.
Not to mention that you still don't solve the issue. If facecamping counts as zero then the bubba will stay in low mmr and keep facing survivors who fall for that stuff.
Can you seriously not see that by doing that you're going to create a mmr level where it's nothing but facecamping bubba's.
And good luck raising your mmr as a survivor by escaping through the exit gate while your team doesn't know how to deal with facecamping.
Gaining mmr isn't winning. You can't even see it. It's just a way so you can face people who can deal with you.
Whether thats cause your so skilled or you use a cheese strat is irrelevant
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....yeah, you do have a really good point. on paper it does sound like a great idea, and in practice it likely would be if the company who owns the game had any knowledge of video games or coding
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I can bet u won't play game if u get nothing in reward. Forever stuck Ash4 with 0 BP won't encourage u to be face camper.
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Oh right, because it would not get abused by survivors at all.
Hey guys, let's run killer around hook, so he doesn't get any BP, that will be fun. Sure...
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Trade hook? Oh wait it's impossible cause reasons....
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the guy is just saying your MMR should rise if you facecamp so you face survivors who know how the counterplay to facecamping, therefore facecampers eventually end up at an MMR that forces them to adapt or suffer
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First of all, why is that impossible?
And no, I mean actually just looping around hook as long as possible, so he doesn't get any BP. You would lose the game for it, but killer will not get any BP and it will piss him off. Which is main goal of lot of players.
You would lose this bet. Noone would do it each game, but if I will see flashlight macro, do you think I would give a ######### about BP? He would never get from that hook.
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That would be cool but solo q exists and it's trash
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