The Absolute CORE problem with Legion's power.
It isn't the counterplay. It isn't the 110 M1. It isn't the exploits.
The most fundamental problem with Legion's power and its biggest hindrance is that it contradicts itself.
The goal of Legion's power is to chain hit multiple Survivors so they have to mend and stall the game. But the problem is, because of the design of Legion's power, people have NO motivation to heal against Legion. Being injured is almost the exact same as being healthy against him, so why would you ever bother to waste time healing? To make matters worse, the mend timers are shorter than their respective healing timers. This, combined with the lack of motivation to heal against Legion, means that hitting a Survivor with Feral Frenzy actually gives you LESS pressure than hitting them normally.
The power's main goal is a giant backfire. It's self-killing. And this has to be fixed.
How is it fixed, you ask? Simple: Giving Survivors a reason to heal against Legion. And though theyre trying it with a new buff that lets Legion shorten timers on injured people, it makes him able to down them in three hits, which, combined with the lack of counterplay against Feral Frenzy in a chase, makes for an extremely unfun Killer.
However, I think the way to give Legion a good way to encourage healing without making him even less fun to fight is simple.
-Revert the buff that makes the bleedout timer go down while mending.
-Revert the upcoming buff that allows Legion to hit injured Survivors into a shorter timer.
-Injured Survivors who are not on a bleedout timer but are then put into one cannot remove the timer by mending. Mending in this scenario instead resets the timer and puts the Survivor into the "Half-Mended" state for 10 seconds, during which the Survivor can be healed.
-If the Half-Mended timer reaches 0, the bleedout timer will start counting down again.
-If a Half-Mended Survivor is being healed by someone else or themselves, the timer will pause.
This change will give Survivors an extreme incentive to heal against Legion, without making it just borderline bullshit to fight against his power. IF they have to be close to constantly mending, then that will help stall for time extremely well.
Comments
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I kind of understand, I get that being injured and then getting DW is different than normal but I don't quite understand what happens.
So you're injured and get DW and that timer cannot be removed normally.i'm guessing you Mend the normal time and in 10 seconds you can heal and the timer pauses? And if you don't heal within the 10 seconds the timer keeps going until you go down, is that right?
If that's right or close then that screws over people who don't use Self-Care or are the last Survivor remaining or in the area, you'll go down whichh is why they never added in the you cannot Mend yourself feature.
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It would also reintroduce the massive problem against healthy survivors that occured when mending paused the bleedout timer.
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I forgot to mention that not healing against Legion isn't a bad thing or an insult to his power. Not healing against him is stupid and smart at the same time. You waste time healing when you can do Gens but not healing means I don't have to use my Frenzy. I was downing lots of Survivors because they weren't healing or because they were all grouped together rying to heal, those are the best moments.
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@HatCreature said:
I forgot to mention that not healing against Legion isn't a bad thing or an insult to his power. Not healing against him is stupid and smart at the same time. You waste time healing when you can do Gens but not healing means I don't have to use my Frenzy. I was downing lots of Survivors because they weren't healing or because they were all grouped together rying to heal, those are the best moments.Not healing against Legion is still the optimal play because if he doesn't use his power, he's a 110 M1 Killler. If you're healthy, he uses his power and then becomes a 110 M1 Killer. You'd literally be stupid to heal against Legion.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@HatCreature said:
I forgot to mention that not healing against Legion isn't a bad thing or an insult to his power. Not healing against him is stupid and smart at the same time. You waste time healing when you can do Gens but not healing means I don't have to use my Frenzy. I was downing lots of Survivors because they weren't healing or because they were all grouped together rying to heal, those are the best moments.Not healing against Legion is still the optimal play because if he doesn't use his power, he's a 110 M1 Killler. If you're healthy, he uses his power and then becomes a 110 M1 Killer. You'd literally be stupid to heal against Legion.
I don't know, I've caught lots of people off guard because they wouldn't heal. I still agree that healing is stupid because it's wasting your time, Hell i've started not healing against other killers because it wastes time in general.
So does this mean my question about the mechanic was correct?
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I disagree.
His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
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They mentioned something like this on the last stream. Pretty much this exact idea.
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@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
The fact is, in a chase, Feral Frenzy literally has less counterplay than a good Nurse. If a Legion has Feral Frenzy and two synapses in their brain to rub together, then you're going to get hit. Making a near-uncounterable chase power actually able to efficiently down would be completely OP, which is why I think Frank's Mixtape is bloody stupid. You don't fix a bad Killer by making them too strong.
His power needs to encourage healing in other ways—ways that compliment the goal his power is designed to accomplish, which is chaining hits to gain pressure.
See, if Feral Frenzy actually established pressure, then it would lend a huge helping hand in making Legion good at what it would seem his best playstyle would be: Stalling the game until enough pallets are broken that being a 110 M1 Killer is no longer a problem for you.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
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@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
You're literally talking nonsense. If the Survivor stays close to the Killer, then the chase is considered "broken" when the Survivor is out of the Killer's line of sight for 5 seconds. You hear that? Five. Seconds.
Don't tell me to get better when you don't even know what you're talking about. If what you were saying was true in the slightest, then moonwalking after Frenzying wouldn't even be an exploit. It would just be a funny gag to entertain the Survivor and yourself.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
You're literally talking nonsense. If the Survivor stays close to the Killer, then the chase is considered "broken" when the Survivor is out of the Killer's line of sight for 5 seconds. You hear that? Five. Seconds.
Don't tell me to get better when you don't even know what you're talking about. If what you were saying was true in the slightest, then moonwalking after Frenzying wouldn't even be an exploit. It would just be a funny gag to entertain the Survivor and yourself.
I've broken line of sight for longer then 5 seconds, with a survivor 10 meters away, at a pallet, and the chase didn't break. I know how the chase mechanic works, that's why i looked away, and counted to 7, just to make sure i wasn't fast counting.
Either the games broke currently (possibly) or this is a legit counter.
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@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
You're literally talking nonsense. If the Survivor stays close to the Killer, then the chase is considered "broken" when the Survivor is out of the Killer's line of sight for 5 seconds. You hear that? Five. Seconds.
Don't tell me to get better when you don't even know what you're talking about. If what you were saying was true in the slightest, then moonwalking after Frenzying wouldn't even be an exploit. It would just be a funny gag to entertain the Survivor and yourself.
I've broken line of sight for longer then 5 seconds, with a survivor 10 meters away, at a pallet, and the chase didn't break. I know how the chase mechanic works, that's why i looked away, and counted to 7, just to make sure i wasn't fast counting.
Either the games broke currently (possibly) or this is a legit counter.
Probably the first option, considering how damn buggy this patch is. From constantly spurting out blood when hit with Sloppy Butcher on Father Campbell's Chapel to Myers being unable to stalk if he can't see the lower half of the Survivor, there are so many glitches in this patch that I can't even count. Between the ######### new Survivor Perks, the terrible new Killer, the complications that came with the new map, and the mountain of bugs and glitches, I can say without hesitation that this is the most rushed patch in all of DBD, by far.
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Loving Legion, ranking up and getting kills and salt (Legion is boring! Impossible to win a case against Legion!)
I'm getting mixed messages about this Killer. On the one hand, everyone swears they're awful. On the other hand, i'm doing amazing with them and having fun, challenging games for the first time in a long time in DbD without having to play Billy or Nurse (Both of whom i hate).
I dunno, maybe the majority are playing Legion wrong.
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@BigBlackMori said:
Loving Legion, ranking up and getting kills and salt (Legion is boring! Impossible to win a case against Legion!)I'm getting mixed messages about this Killer. On the one hand, everyone swears they're awful. On the other hand, i'm doing amazing with them and having fun, challenging games for the first time in a long time in DbD without having to play Billy or Nurse (Both of whom i hate).
I dunno, maybe the majority are playing Legion wrong.
Sounds like the Survivors you're going against don't know what "doing gens" is.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@BigBlackMori said:
Loving Legion, ranking up and getting kills and salt (Legion is boring! Impossible to win a case against Legion!)I'm getting mixed messages about this Killer. On the one hand, everyone swears they're awful. On the other hand, i'm doing amazing with them and having fun, challenging games for the first time in a long time in DbD without having to play Billy or Nurse (Both of whom i hate).
I dunno, maybe the majority are playing Legion wrong.
Sounds like the Survivors you're going against don't know what "doing gens" is.
Can't do gens when they're on the ground. Or getting chased. Or mending. Or healing. Or hooked.
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@BigBlackMori said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@BigBlackMori said:
Loving Legion, ranking up and getting kills and salt (Legion is boring! Impossible to win a case against Legion!)I'm getting mixed messages about this Killer. On the one hand, everyone swears they're awful. On the other hand, i'm doing amazing with them and having fun, challenging games for the first time in a long time in DbD without having to play Billy or Nurse (Both of whom i hate).
I dunno, maybe the majority are playing Legion wrong.
Sounds like the Survivors you're going against don't know what "doing gens" is.
Can't do gens when they're on the ground. Or getting chased. Or mending. Or healing. Or hooked.
If they have half a brain, they'll only be doing one of those things.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@BigBlackMori said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@BigBlackMori said:
Loving Legion, ranking up and getting kills and salt (Legion is boring! Impossible to win a case against Legion!)I'm getting mixed messages about this Killer. On the one hand, everyone swears they're awful. On the other hand, i'm doing amazing with them and having fun, challenging games for the first time in a long time in DbD without having to play Billy or Nurse (Both of whom i hate).
I dunno, maybe the majority are playing Legion wrong.
Sounds like the Survivors you're going against don't know what "doing gens" is.
Can't do gens when they're on the ground. Or getting chased. Or mending. Or healing. Or hooked.
If they have half a brain, they'll only be doing one of those things.
If you have any skill as a Killer, they'll be doing all of those things and more. That's called pressure and presence; legion has both in spades and if you don't capitalize on it then of course you'll do bad. Somebody should always be pressured. If not, you are messing up. That goes for any Killer.
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@BigBlackMori said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@BigBlackMori said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@BigBlackMori said:
Loving Legion, ranking up and getting kills and salt (Legion is boring! Impossible to win a case against Legion!)I'm getting mixed messages about this Killer. On the one hand, everyone swears they're awful. On the other hand, i'm doing amazing with them and having fun, challenging games for the first time in a long time in DbD without having to play Billy or Nurse (Both of whom i hate).
I dunno, maybe the majority are playing Legion wrong.
Sounds like the Survivors you're going against don't know what "doing gens" is.
Can't do gens when they're on the ground. Or getting chased. Or mending. Or healing. Or hooked.
If they have half a brain, they'll only be doing one of those things.
If you have any skill as a Killer, they'll be doing all of those things and more. That's called pressure and presence; legion has both in spades and if you don't capitalize on it then of course you'll do bad. Somebody should always be pressured. If not, you are messing up. That goes for any Killer.
It seems that you ignored the entire OP. Legion can chain hits, but he can still only chase 1 Survivor at a time. And that takes a lot of time because Legion has 2 options.
1) Wait for frenzy to recharge and smack them a total of 4 times
2) Be a 110% speed M1 KillerMeanwhile, mending takes less time to do than healing, and Survivors don't want to heal against Legion because nobody with two synapses to rub together is going to go down to a 110 M1 Killer as long as pallets exist. So, in other words, my point still stands: Legion does not have pressure and presence "in spades"; his power actually takes presence away from him.
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This is a misconception, many legions will slug after their first wounding volley and only use their power to locate survivors or to bypass defenses or bad loops. His power is used to mainly locate survivors and give info, not to kill them.
In many ways Legion is actually strong from this since he undermines survivors sustaining abilities, med kits, and most altruistic actions.0 -
I guess no one saw my previous post I'll type it in big letters...
@thesuicidefox said:
They mentioned something like this on the last stream. Pretty much this exact idea.
I don't heal against Legion unless I'm on my last hook or I need to make a risky save or something. Otherwise you are better just being injured. Had a Legion last night that wouldn't Frenzy chase if you were injured and I was able to loop him for a while several times around pallets he wouldn't break either. I was in an SWF group that INSISTED on healing though, even when I told them don't bother, they still did. We only just barely got 2 gens and I managed to hatch. If they listened to me they could have finished all the gens while I was getting chased by a 110 killer on Ward (and I had BL, he chased me for a solid 2 minutes) I'm sure at least 3 of us would have gotten out. Sent GGs to killer after the game and said my team was dumb for healing every time they got hit. He was saying that it works for him because then he can down you faster if he finds you again, to which I made the point that because he refused to Frenzy chase me when I was injured I was able to infinite him in the main building. Little debate back and forth, but the short of it is that if you play Legion and get survivors that will always heal before doing something, chances are you will 3k/4k because they just waste a lot of time. Get 4 survivors like me that use IW and Adren and stay injured, we rush gens and loop you because you are slow, forcing you to Frenzy chase at certain loops.
I think Legion needs a rework already. Between this and the potential exploit of Bloodhound moonwalking chase cheese Legion is not very well designed.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
You're literally talking nonsense. If the Survivor stays close to the Killer, then the chase is considered "broken" when the Survivor is out of the Killer's line of sight for 5 seconds. You hear that? Five. Seconds.
Don't tell me to get better when you don't even know what you're talking about. If what you were saying was true in the slightest, then moonwalking after Frenzying wouldn't even be an exploit. It would just be a funny gag to entertain the Survivor and yourself.
I've broken line of sight for longer then 5 seconds, with a survivor 10 meters away, at a pallet, and the chase didn't break. I know how the chase mechanic works, that's why i looked away, and counted to 7, just to make sure i wasn't fast counting.
Either the games broke currently (possibly) or this is a legit counter.
Probably the first option, considering how damn buggy this patch is. From constantly spurting out blood when hit with Sloppy Butcher on Father Campbell's Chapel to Myers being unable to stalk if he can't see the lower half of the Survivor, there are so many glitches in this patch that I can't even count. Between the ######### new Survivor Perks, the terrible new Killer, the complications that came with the new map, and the mountain of bugs and glitches, I can say without hesitation that this is the most rushed patch in all of DBD, by far.
I wont argue with you there. I don't understand why they didn't iron things out with the new engine.
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@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
You're literally talking nonsense. If the Survivor stays close to the Killer, then the chase is considered "broken" when the Survivor is out of the Killer's line of sight for 5 seconds. You hear that? Five. Seconds.
Don't tell me to get better when you don't even know what you're talking about. If what you were saying was true in the slightest, then moonwalking after Frenzying wouldn't even be an exploit. It would just be a funny gag to entertain the Survivor and yourself.
I've broken line of sight for longer then 5 seconds, with a survivor 10 meters away, at a pallet, and the chase didn't break. I know how the chase mechanic works, that's why i looked away, and counted to 7, just to make sure i wasn't fast counting.
Either the games broke currently (possibly) or this is a legit counter.
Probably the first option, considering how damn buggy this patch is. From constantly spurting out blood when hit with Sloppy Butcher on Father Campbell's Chapel to Myers being unable to stalk if he can't see the lower half of the Survivor, there are so many glitches in this patch that I can't even count. Between the ######### new Survivor Perks, the terrible new Killer, the complications that came with the new map, and the mountain of bugs and glitches, I can say without hesitation that this is the most rushed patch in all of DBD, by far.
I wont argue with you there. I don't understand why they didn't iron things out with the new engine.
Some of the biggest bugs I've noticed:
-Michael got shadow-nerfed. Stalking is next to impossible now. I would say more than 60% of the Survivor's body needs to be fully visible to stalk them. And the max range got shortened to hell.
-The new map kills your framerate. And, of course, it was crash city before that.
-The Nurse got shadow-buffed. Her fatigue no longer gives her limited vision.
-Hitting someone with Save the Best for Last equipped while carrying a Survivor will give you the normal successful attack animation along with the cooldown reduction from the Perk.
-Huntress's hatchets are even more inconsistent than I remember.
-This one might be my imagination, but it seems Iron Will 3 does not fully reduce the noises caused by injuries.There are a ######### ton of others, but these are just the most major ones I've come across.
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You know I always thought they could make it so if you hit an injured person while in feral frenzy it should down them.
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@Jake_Parks_prince said:
You know I always thought they could make it so if you hit an injured person while in feral frenzy it should down them.That would make him from the worst Killer in the game to straight up OP. It's almost impossible to not hit someone when you're using Feral Frenzy, so guaranteeing a down like that is not a good idea.
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Honestly all the slow killers are slow because they must rely on their power to down. Legion is slow but his power essentially doesn't down, it's just supportive for added game pressure which is essentially what all the powers that full speed killers have do.
His power either needs to be able to down in some fashion or another, or he needs full speed. His power doesn't warrant the slow speed.
Being required to be a Huntress with no hatchets chasing someone for a down is never going to be viable.
I'd personally prefer them to just give him full move speed and leave his power to simply be there for added pressure and slowing the game down. Also, his M1 attacks should have never been resetting the cd on his power, that's just dumb and bad design.
Post edited by Blueberry on0 -
@Blueberry said:
Eh, you are right about why he has 110 ms. But his power is weird. It's sooooo close to being way to powerful, with no counter play. But as it sits, it isn't.
I've been preaching this for a while, but the problem isn't his power, or his MS.
The problem is his redundant/ useless add-ons. He simply doesn't have the utility he needs to pressure the survivors.
He has 2 OP add-ons that are PURPLE. Both of them let him 3 hit without breaking chase. Which really doesn't have much counter play. Without those add-ons, you can prolong chases against him. With them, you are going down in about 30 seconds. And I want to stress, you only need 1 of these 2 add-ons that do the same thing in different ways to do this.
Fuming Mixtape isn't very good. it isn't red quality for him. A red add-on should be stand alone game changing. On the Wraith, that power is. On someone that has to deplete their power to use it, it is not. It can be useful with one of the Cool Down add-ons. (They have 2, but i'm pretty sure one is actually useless, and only Rulers should be used)
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@SmokePotion said:
@Blueberry said:
Eh, you are right about why he has 110 ms. But his power is weird. It's sooooo close to being way to powerful, with no counter play. But as it sits, it isn't.
I've been preaching this for a while, but the problem isn't his power, or his MS.
The problem is his redundant/ useless add-ons. He simply doesn't have the utility he needs to pressure the survivors.
He has 2 OP add-ons that are PURPLE. Both of them let him 3 hit without breaking chase. Which really doesn't have much counter play. Without those add-ons, you can prolong chases against him. With them, you are going down in about 30 seconds. And I want to stress, you only need 1 of these 2 add-ons that do the same thing in different ways to do this.
Fuming Mixtape isn't very good. it isn't red quality for him. A red add-on should be stand alone game changing. On the Wraith, that power is. On someone that has to deplete their power to use it, it is not. It can be useful with one of the Cool Down add-ons. (They have 2, but i'm pretty sure one is actually useless, and only Rulers should be used)
Well his addons are a whole other story. Most of them are trash. Those 2 purples are his best tho and should've been the ultras. I'd argue both his current ultras are trash. Mixtape is not only bad but it's even just a copy paste from Wraiths ultra. The button lets you save a little time breaking pallets and points out the general area of survivors but that's it. You aren't even reaching survivors with your Feral Frenzy with his normal terror radius unless they're just dumb and stand still much less trying to reach people map wide, the power just doesn't last long enough.
If they increased the hits required to down someone in Feral Frenzy while also giving him full normal move speed I'd be fine with it. Reduces his tunnel while also making his normal M1 chase for the down actually viable. He's a tough one to balance it's true but that's on the devs for the bad design that made him that way and while very easy to make too strong, he's currently sitting in the dumpster.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@Jake_Parks_prince said:
You know I always thought they could make it so if you hit an injured person while in feral frenzy it should down them.That would make him from the worst Killer in the game to straight up OP. It's almost impossible to not hit someone when you're using Feral Frenzy, so guaranteeing a down like that is not a good idea.
I mean billy.
0 -
The way legion is right now he's not even fun to play against. Skill in the chase can only go to far, if Legion wants you he has you. I just quit whenever I see a legion now, its not even worth the time.
0 -
I play The Legion now and I see there are good survivors who understand how to play against them. Yes, it's still very rare (1/20) but they can give me some wasted time chasing them. While I understand all that "it's not fun play against The Legion" because you cannot loop him or jungle gym him, but there are counterplays, survivors just need to adjust their gameplay.
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.1 -
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
0 -
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
0 -
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving? Countering a Killer's mindgame is the easiest thing in the world if the loop is in any way safe.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.0 -
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
Correct. There is some level of knowing your surroundings, and knowing what loop they will want to go for next. And those are just my 3 favorite killers that I run the meme stuff on. I only mentioned them cause I've ran into a bunch of people at rank 1 that recognize my perk setups. (ie: I might be the only person running 100% hex at rank 1. Ruin, Huntress, Thrill, and Devour cause i do get people after the game going 'i knew it was you!")
I learned by watching Truetalent and Monto and other killer streamers, and watching, in specific, how they broke loops. Also playing survivor teaches you A LOT about breaking loops.
my three biggest tips for breaking loops are these:
1: Learn to recognize what a good pallet is and a bad pallet, and what makes a pallet bad/unsafe for the survivor to use.
2: Recognize that many loops have a long and a short side, and use that knowledge
3: Don't get emotional. Calm down, and think a step ahead.
0 -
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
Correct. There is some level of knowing your surroundings, and knowing what loop they will want to go for next. And those are just my 3 favorite killers that I run the meme stuff on. I only mentioned them cause I've ran into a bunch of people at rank 1 that recognize my perk setups. (ie: I might be the only person running 100% hex at rank 1. Ruin, Huntress, Thrill, and Devour cause i do get people after the game going 'i knew it was you!")
I learned by watching Truetalent and Monto and other killer streamers, and watching, in specific, how they broke loops. Also playing survivor teaches you A LOT about breaking loops.
my three biggest tips for breaking loops are these:
1: Learn to recognize what a good pallet is and a bad pallet, and what makes a pallet bad/unsafe for the survivor to use.
2: Recognize that many loops have a long and a short side, and use that knowledge
3: Don't get emotional. Calm down, and think a step ahead.
I will confess that I've never had the oh-so-prestigious title of rank 1 Killer. But I have reached and held my own at rank 2 with Spirit, who is, in my opinion, a Killer with some of the most unique and complex mindgames in the game, ESPECIALLY since her power prevents you from seeing Survivors. If anything, I firmly believe I would be at rank 1 if rank reset didn't hit the next day and I decided to stop playing Spirit for whatever reason.
I believe that this qualifies me to say, yeah, I know what the hell loops are and how to deal with them. The problem is, it is far too easy for Survivors to deal with the Killer dealing with the loops.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
Correct. There is some level of knowing your surroundings, and knowing what loop they will want to go for next. And those are just my 3 favorite killers that I run the meme stuff on. I only mentioned them cause I've ran into a bunch of people at rank 1 that recognize my perk setups. (ie: I might be the only person running 100% hex at rank 1. Ruin, Huntress, Thrill, and Devour cause i do get people after the game going 'i knew it was you!")
I learned by watching Truetalent and Monto and other killer streamers, and watching, in specific, how they broke loops. Also playing survivor teaches you A LOT about breaking loops.
my three biggest tips for breaking loops are these:
1: Learn to recognize what a good pallet is and a bad pallet, and what makes a pallet bad/unsafe for the survivor to use.
2: Recognize that many loops have a long and a short side, and use that knowledge
3: Don't get emotional. Calm down, and think a step ahead.
I will confess that I've never had the oh-so-prestigious title of rank 1 Killer. But I have reached and held my own at rank 2 with Spirit, who is, in my opinion, a Killer with some of the most unique and complex mindgames in the game, ESPECIALLY since her power prevents you from seeing Survivors. If anything, I firmly believe I would be at rank 1 if rank reset didn't hit the next day and I decided to stop playing Spirit for whatever reason.
I believe that this qualifies me to say, yeah, I know what the hell loops are and how to deal with them. The problem is, it is far too easy for Survivors to deal with the Killer dealing with the loops.
There's no difference between who you play at rank 2 and rank 1. And I agree, the rank reset is arbitrary and messes up the skill levels of each rank, and absolutely ruins Lobby times for killers.
And you do sound like you know what you are doing. But it also sounds like you might be over investing in bad chases, and are a bit unwilling to just leave and go check gens. Knowing when this is a good choice is what keeps me at rank 1.
0 -
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
Correct. There is some level of knowing your surroundings, and knowing what loop they will want to go for next. And those are just my 3 favorite killers that I run the meme stuff on. I only mentioned them cause I've ran into a bunch of people at rank 1 that recognize my perk setups. (ie: I might be the only person running 100% hex at rank 1. Ruin, Huntress, Thrill, and Devour cause i do get people after the game going 'i knew it was you!")
I learned by watching Truetalent and Monto and other killer streamers, and watching, in specific, how they broke loops. Also playing survivor teaches you A LOT about breaking loops.
my three biggest tips for breaking loops are these:
1: Learn to recognize what a good pallet is and a bad pallet, and what makes a pallet bad/unsafe for the survivor to use.
2: Recognize that many loops have a long and a short side, and use that knowledge
3: Don't get emotional. Calm down, and think a step ahead.
I will confess that I've never had the oh-so-prestigious title of rank 1 Killer. But I have reached and held my own at rank 2 with Spirit, who is, in my opinion, a Killer with some of the most unique and complex mindgames in the game, ESPECIALLY since her power prevents you from seeing Survivors. If anything, I firmly believe I would be at rank 1 if rank reset didn't hit the next day and I decided to stop playing Spirit for whatever reason.
I believe that this qualifies me to say, yeah, I know what the hell loops are and how to deal with them. The problem is, it is far too easy for Survivors to deal with the Killer dealing with the loops.
There's no difference between who you play at rank 2 and rank 1. And I agree, the rank reset is arbitrary and messes up the skill levels of each rank, and absolutely ruins Lobby times for killers.
And you do sound like you know what you are doing. But it also sounds like you might be over investing in bad chases, and are a bit unwilling to just leave and go check gens. Knowing when this is a good choice is what keeps me at rank 1.
Every chase is a bad chase.
1 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
Correct. There is some level of knowing your surroundings, and knowing what loop they will want to go for next. And those are just my 3 favorite killers that I run the meme stuff on. I only mentioned them cause I've ran into a bunch of people at rank 1 that recognize my perk setups. (ie: I might be the only person running 100% hex at rank 1. Ruin, Huntress, Thrill, and Devour cause i do get people after the game going 'i knew it was you!")
I learned by watching Truetalent and Monto and other killer streamers, and watching, in specific, how they broke loops. Also playing survivor teaches you A LOT about breaking loops.
my three biggest tips for breaking loops are these:
1: Learn to recognize what a good pallet is and a bad pallet, and what makes a pallet bad/unsafe for the survivor to use.
2: Recognize that many loops have a long and a short side, and use that knowledge
3: Don't get emotional. Calm down, and think a step ahead.
I will confess that I've never had the oh-so-prestigious title of rank 1 Killer. But I have reached and held my own at rank 2 with Spirit, who is, in my opinion, a Killer with some of the most unique and complex mindgames in the game, ESPECIALLY since her power prevents you from seeing Survivors. If anything, I firmly believe I would be at rank 1 if rank reset didn't hit the next day and I decided to stop playing Spirit for whatever reason.
I believe that this qualifies me to say, yeah, I know what the hell loops are and how to deal with them. The problem is, it is far too easy for Survivors to deal with the Killer dealing with the loops.
There's no difference between who you play at rank 2 and rank 1. And I agree, the rank reset is arbitrary and messes up the skill levels of each rank, and absolutely ruins Lobby times for killers.
And you do sound like you know what you are doing. But it also sounds like you might be over investing in bad chases, and are a bit unwilling to just leave and go check gens. Knowing when this is a good choice is what keeps me at rank 1.
Every chase is a bad chase.
For the survivors! Muahahahahahahaha!
No but seriously, you aren't completely wrong in that sentiment
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@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
The problem with that sentence is that because of the size of Killer hitboxes, the length of a lot of loops, and certain Perks, many, MANY loops cannot be mindgamed by the Killer if the Survivor isn't rank 50. I mean, for fucksake, infinites are still in the game.
yes, RNG can give a survivor an infinite loop. But that loop is only infinite, as long as you chase them through it infinitely. Try leaving to check your gens if you find yourself in a bad chase.
Short of an infinite loop, and you not having Bamboozle (this will block most inifinites, but not all) you can mindgame survivors out of every loop in the game.
Break the pattern man.
What Survivors are you going against that don't know how to hold W and occasionally hold S or stop moving?
I play rank 1-2 killer. And sit there all month long baby
If you run into a hag at rank 1 running no perks or add-ons. That's probably me.
If you run into a clown at rank 1 that runs nothing but hex's. That's probably me.
If you run into a rank 1 spirit that busts out into the thriller dance, and doesn't care that he's wasting time. That's probably me.Hag mindgames are EXTREMELY different from normal Killer mindgames. She's also top tier.
A good Clown is unloopable because no #########, his power is designed to do that.
Spirit also mindgames in much different ways than most other Killers and can counter looping very well. I should know—Spirit was the creature that got me to rank 2 for the first time.Most Killers do not have anti-looping capabilites like that. They will have to rely on manipulating the red stain or doubling back to mindgame a loop. The problem is, many loops are so long that this will more often than not end up hindering them more than anything, because any mistake the Survivor makes can be corrected by the simple obstacle of how much distance the Killer has to travel to reach the Survivor.
Correct. There is some level of knowing your surroundings, and knowing what loop they will want to go for next. And those are just my 3 favorite killers that I run the meme stuff on. I only mentioned them cause I've ran into a bunch of people at rank 1 that recognize my perk setups. (ie: I might be the only person running 100% hex at rank 1. Ruin, Huntress, Thrill, and Devour cause i do get people after the game going 'i knew it was you!")
I learned by watching Truetalent and Monto and other killer streamers, and watching, in specific, how they broke loops. Also playing survivor teaches you A LOT about breaking loops.
my three biggest tips for breaking loops are these:
1: Learn to recognize what a good pallet is and a bad pallet, and what makes a pallet bad/unsafe for the survivor to use.
2: Recognize that many loops have a long and a short side, and use that knowledge
3: Don't get emotional. Calm down, and think a step ahead.
I will confess that I've never had the oh-so-prestigious title of rank 1 Killer. But I have reached and held my own at rank 2 with Spirit, who is, in my opinion, a Killer with some of the most unique and complex mindgames in the game, ESPECIALLY since her power prevents you from seeing Survivors. If anything, I firmly believe I would be at rank 1 if rank reset didn't hit the next day and I decided to stop playing Spirit for whatever reason.
I believe that this qualifies me to say, yeah, I know what the hell loops are and how to deal with them. The problem is, it is far too easy for Survivors to deal with the Killer dealing with the loops.
There's no difference between who you play at rank 2 and rank 1. And I agree, the rank reset is arbitrary and messes up the skill levels of each rank, and absolutely ruins Lobby times for killers.
And you do sound like you know what you are doing. But it also sounds like you might be over investing in bad chases, and are a bit unwilling to just leave and go check gens. Knowing when this is a good choice is what keeps me at rank 1.
Every chase is a bad chase.
For the survivors! Muahahahahahahaha!
No but seriously, you aren't completely wrong in that sentiment
Why do you think I main Legion even though he's the most poorly-designed Killer in the game?
Well frankly it's because of his aesthetic He counters looping without needing to try. That's how sick I am of loops, that even as a P3-50 Nurse and someone who knows their way around Spirit, pallet looping still drives me up a goddamn wall. I've learned some Killers that negate looping and I STILL despise the mechanic, because I don't typically want to play those Killers.
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"You can be a best looper in the world and The Legion still gets you." - that's what FunGoose said in one of his streams adding that playing against The Legion is annoying. I agree, it is annoying when all you can do is countered easily. Legion counters people who just cheekily try to get your attention but on the other hand he has hard time against sneaky players - that's my experience from playing The Legion.1
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Wait a killer who promotes stealth gameplay and makes it so you have to juke the killer instead of running him around like your pet dog. Devs pls nerf(sarcasm). Seriously its the same with nurse and spirit lose the killer he has a fundamental exploitable weak point of not having scratch marks while in ff.wladimiiir said:"You can be a best looper in the world and The Legion still gets you." - that's what FunGoose said in one of his streams adding that playing against The Legion is annoying. I agree, it is annoying when all you can do is countered easily. Legion counters people who just cheekily try to get your attention but on the other hand he has hard time against sneaky players - that's my experience from playing The Legion.
You cant loop a legion so op is a a pathetic excuse learn to shake killers. Survivours have gotten to use to looping every killer. Now we have a killer who anti loops and its immediatly no counterplay. I spent a 15 min game consistently shaking a legion by breaking line of sight and hiding around corners and debris while he was in ff.0 -
@Zarathos said:
wladimiiir said:"You can be a best looper in the world and The Legion still gets you." - that's what FunGoose said in one of his streams adding that playing against The Legion is annoying. I agree, it is annoying when all you can do is countered easily. Legion counters people who just cheekily try to get your attention but on the other hand he has hard time against sneaky players - that's my experience from playing The Legion.
Wait a killer who promotes stealth gameplay and makes it so you have to juke the killer instead of running him around like your pet dog. Devs pls nerf(sarcasm). Seriously its the same with nurse and spirit lose the killer he has a fundamental exploitable weak point of not having scratch marks while in ff.
You cant loop a legion so op is a a pathetic excuse learn to shake killers. Survivors have gotten to use to looping every killer. Now we have a killer who anti loops and its immediately no counter play. I spent a 15 min game consistently shaking a legion by breaking line of sight and hiding around corners and debris while he was in ff.
LOL. You think playing stealthy is juking? Seriously? Playing stealthy just takes a little bit more skill than camping the hook as killer lol.
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@Chi said:
@Zarathos said:
wladimiiir said:"You can be a best looper in the world and The Legion still gets you." - that's what FunGoose said in one of his streams adding that playing against The Legion is annoying. I agree, it is annoying when all you can do is countered easily. Legion counters people who just cheekily try to get your attention but on the other hand he has hard time against sneaky players - that's my experience from playing The Legion.
Wait a killer who promotes stealth gameplay and makes it so you have to juke the killer instead of running him around like your pet dog. Devs pls nerf(sarcasm). Seriously its the same with nurse and spirit lose the killer he has a fundamental exploitable weak point of not having scratch marks while in ff.
You cant loop a legion so op is a a pathetic excuse learn to shake killers. Survivors have gotten to use to looping every killer. Now we have a killer who anti loops and its immediately no counter play. I spent a 15 min game consistently shaking a legion by breaking line of sight and hiding around corners and debris while he was in ff.
LOL. You think playing stealthy is juking? Seriously? Playing stealthy just takes a little bit more skill than camping the hook as killer lol.
I mean your pfp is Thotdette so you probably know what it's like to be immersed
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@Chi said:
@Zarathos said:
wladimiiir said:"You can be a best looper in the world and The Legion still gets you." - that's what FunGoose said in one of his streams adding that playing against The Legion is annoying. I agree, it is annoying when all you can do is countered easily. Legion counters people who just cheekily try to get your attention but on the other hand he has hard time against sneaky players - that's my experience from playing The Legion.
Wait a killer who promotes stealth gameplay and makes it so you have to juke the killer instead of running him around like your pet dog. Devs pls nerf(sarcasm). Seriously its the same with nurse and spirit lose the killer he has a fundamental exploitable weak point of not having scratch marks while in ff.
You cant loop a legion so op is a a pathetic excuse learn to shake killers. Survivors have gotten to use to looping every killer. Now we have a killer who anti loops and its immediately no counter play. I spent a 15 min game consistently shaking a legion by breaking line of sight and hiding around corners and debris while he was in ff.
LOL. You think playing stealthy is juking? Seriously? Playing stealthy just takes a little bit more skill than camping the hook as killer lol.
I mean your pfp is Thotdette so you probably know what it's like to be immersed
I don't play immersed. ^^
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@Chi said:
@Zarathos said:
wladimiiir said:"You can be a best looper in the world and The Legion still gets you." - that's what FunGoose said in one of his streams adding that playing against The Legion is annoying. I agree, it is annoying when all you can do is countered easily. Legion counters people who just cheekily try to get your attention but on the other hand he has hard time against sneaky players - that's my experience from playing The Legion.
Wait a killer who promotes stealth gameplay and makes it so you have to juke the killer instead of running him around like your pet dog. Devs pls nerf(sarcasm). Seriously its the same with nurse and spirit lose the killer he has a fundamental exploitable weak point of not having scratch marks while in ff.
You cant loop a legion so op is a a pathetic excuse learn to shake killers. Survivors have gotten to use to looping every killer. Now we have a killer who anti loops and its immediately no counter play. I spent a 15 min game consistently shaking a legion by breaking line of sight and hiding around corners and debris while he was in ff.
LOL. You think playing stealthy is juking? Seriously? Playing stealthy just takes a little bit more skill than camping the hook as killer lol.
Dictionary defines stealth as "cautious and surreptitious action or movement."
Dictionary defines juke as "(in sport) make a sham move to mislead an opponent."
To mislead is to escape to escape is to perform an action of stealth the terms match play styles.
Weird you mention camping legion is probably one of the least threatening on hook defense. Not that it matters its a reasonable weakness for the power he has. Honestly camping is such a pathetic entitled survivor term so many killers are built for defense and giving killers ######### for playing to their killers strengths is creatively limiting. Not every killer can cross maps like billy or nurse.0 -
This is exactly why I'd run M&A on him, it gives him stealth while hunting and increased sight for finding other survivors while in frenzy.SmokePotion said:@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@SmokePotion said:
I disagree.His problem is being able to finish off survivors. The proposed change to him, where people have less of a meter, if they are injured, when hit by frenzy, should fix it.
OFC if they just fixed his add-ons they wouldn't need to.
The problem is, the best counterplay you have against a Frenzy in chases is timing pallet drops really well to stun Legion mid-dash, which is a very inefficient form of counterplay, because dropped pallets actually HELP Legion because his Frenzy timer pauses during vault animations.
That's not true. I will break it down for you, as I have been doing.
Yes, if Legion breaks his chase you can be in trouble. Unless you make him pick up the chase again. Which isn't very hard to do.
It's also pretty easy to make Legion keep chases he doesn't want, since a chase will stay active when the killer can't see the survivor, if the distance isn't to great. This means that if i turn around backwards and moonwalk as The Legion, you just need to not run far away. He could walk backwards, close his eyes,and sing the theme to Sailor Moon, but that chase wont break.
Trust me when i say that high rank survivors know this already, and make use of it.
So i guess the absolute core problem with The Legion is that you just need to get better.
also, his addons are redundant and don't offer much utility.
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Lol as a freddy main I can drop a chase whenever i want and know exactly where my delicious little survivors are try looping me around I'll just leave, Sit still for a few and watch you go to your hidding/healing spot then pop back up on you.SmokePotion said:@wladimiiir said:
You don't see killers complaying about pallet looping or building looping, which is also boring as hell when you don't know how to counter it.What forums are you reading? Killers complain about that all the time.
I don't though, I think it's fun. It's mind games. If they are out looping you, they are better then you. Slow down,a nd think about what they are doing,a nd how to break the pattern. That's litterally all it is. Breaking a pattern.
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