"Play Nice" Rules

Crizpen said:

So, we've all heard the complaints about tunneling and camping. As a killer main, I don't camp unless the exit gates are open, and I try not to tunnel if it can be avoided.

While filming a video getting all the Adept killer achievements, I ran a Hag game, which I've included below, minus my commentary. What you'll see is the following kill / hook order:

1. Down and hook Meg.
2. Kate saves Meg.
3. Down and hook Kate.
4. Kate uses Deliverance to unhook herself.
5. Down and hook Kate.
6. Nea saves Kate.
7. Down Kate, but leave her to be picked up.
8. Down and hook Nea (dead).
9. Down and hook Meg (dead).
10. Down and hook Kate (dead).
11. Down and hook David (dead).

After the match, Kate stuck around to give me the following message:

"tunneling ######### i hope you choke on your dads dick you worthless [BAD WORD], go apologize to the trees for wasting the oxygen they work so hard for your pathetic excuse for an existence. [BAD WORD] #########." (sic)

Now, keep in mind, I was doing Adept, so I could only use the Hag's teachable perks. I didn't tunnel Meg when she was unhooked, I wouldn't have double-hooked Kate, but no one pulled her off. I left Kate to be picked up despite being able to kill her after she was saved by Nea. Kate was the second to last to die.

All things considered, I don't feel like I did anything wrong. You could say using Mint Rag and Rusty Shackles constitutes "camping" if I always port back to the hook when the save is made, but I never re-hooked anyone who was already injured aside from when Kate unhooked herself with Deliverance and there wasn't a different target to chase.

So, why exactly should killers bother to try to play by survivor "rules" for what's "fair" or "not toxic?"

@tennmio said:

Well that Kate was the only one getting tunneled after getting off the hook. Everything else was fairplay.

I think your interpretation of what constitutes tunnelling is a little wide. But that's probably just another case of entitlement: "When I am unhooked, I am entitled to get away while you chase my saviour." It's an either-or choice. If you get chosen, either by chance or because you were in the best position to be chased, deal with it.

@Crizpen said:
So, we've all heard the complaints about tunneling and camping. As a killer main, I don't camp unless the exit gates are open, and I try not to tunnel if it can be avoided.

While filming a video getting all the Adept killer achievements, I ran a Hag game, which I've included below, minus my commentary. What you'll see is the following kill / hook order:

1. Down and hook Meg.
2. Kate saves Meg.
3. Down and hook Kate.
4. Kate uses Deliverance to unhook herself.
5. Down and hook Kate.
6. Nea saves Kate.
7. Down Kate, but leave her to be picked up.
8. Down and hook Nea (dead).
9. Down and hook Meg (dead).
10. Down and hook Kate (dead).
11. Down and hook David (dead).

After the match, Kate stuck around to give me the following message:

"tunneling ######### i hope you choke on your dads dick you worthless [BAD WORD], go apologize to the trees for wasting the oxygen they work so hard for your pathetic excuse for an existence. [BAD WORD] #########." (sic)

Now, keep in mind, I was doing Adept, so I could only use the Hag's teachable perks. I didn't tunnel Meg when she was unhooked, I wouldn't have double-hooked Kate, but no one pulled her off. I left Kate to be picked up despite being able to kill her after she was saved by Nea. Kate was the second to last to die.

All things considered, I don't feel like I did anything wrong. You could say using Mint Rag and Rusty Shackles constitutes "camping" if I always port back to the hook when the save is made, but I never re-hooked anyone who was already injured aside from when Kate unhooked herself with Deliverance and there wasn't a different target to chase.

So, why exactly should killers bother to try to play by survivor "rules" for what's "fair" or "not toxic?"

https://youtu.be/Lr8Gw6weXIc

You didn't. In fact, you are nicer then I am when I play hag.

If a survivor is dumb enough to trip my trap or makes a bad path after an unhook im clearly going to stay within TP range for... Well screw them, they were dumb.

That being said, there are no rules really, except those enforced by the game. And survivors that get 4ked are almost all not very nice if they choose to talk. (i like to offer people tips after the game when i 3-4k. And even being nice and trying to help people, i get SOOOO much #########)

I will state that I get stuff like that much less in the red ranks (against survivors that understand the game)

Hags nature as a killer is to confine survivours to your trapped locations. Which often involves baiting players using hooked survivours. You are not suppose to chase with the hag. Your playing a defensive orientated killer if hag wasnt built for defense she wouldn't have 4.4 ms and she wouldn't spend so much time planting traps. Spread your traps out yes but hooked survivours are your bait if ever your back chasing survivours you have messed up.

Survivours need to secure the escape routes for players and put pressure on gens to move the hag. Trap disarment should be done whilst the hag is carrying a survivour is being transported. Maps and flashlights are excellent resources for dealing with the hags traps. 

tennmio said:

Crizpen said:

So, we've all heard the complaints about tunneling and camping. As a killer main, I don't camp unless the exit gates are open, and I try not to tunnel if it can be avoided.

While filming a video getting all the Adept killer achievements, I ran a Hag game, which I've included below, minus my commentary. What you'll see is the following kill / hook order:

1. Down and hook Meg.
2. Kate saves Meg.
3. Down and hook Kate.
4. Kate uses Deliverance to unhook herself.
5. Down and hook Kate.
6. Nea saves Kate.
7. Down Kate, but leave her to be picked up.
8. Down and hook Nea (dead).
9. Down and hook Meg (dead).
10. Down and hook Kate (dead).
11. Down and hook David (dead).

After the match, Kate stuck around to give me the following message:

"tunneling ######### i hope you choke on your dads dick you worthless [BAD WORD], go apologize to the trees for wasting the oxygen they work so hard for your pathetic excuse for an existence. [BAD WORD] #########." (sic)

Now, keep in mind, I was doing Adept, so I could only use the Hag's teachable perks. I didn't tunnel Meg when she was unhooked, I wouldn't have double-hooked Kate, but no one pulled her off. I left Kate to be picked up despite being able to kill her after she was saved by Nea. Kate was the second to last to die.

All things considered, I don't feel like I did anything wrong. You could say using Mint Rag and Rusty Shackles constitutes "camping" if I always port back to the hook when the save is made, but I never re-hooked anyone who was already injured aside from when Kate unhooked herself with Deliverance and there wasn't a different target to chase.

So, why exactly should killers bother to try to play by survivor "rules" for what's "fair" or "not toxic?"

Well that Kate was the only one getting tunneled after getting off the hook. Everything else was fairplay.

Maybe she took it personal being the only one tunneled and then after being on her second hook and unhooked you went for her first if I got that right.

If I'd see that happening in a game I'd probably asked you what the Kate did that you tunneled her (might have seemed like s.th personal?). So yeah I can understand that she complained. But I understand that after playing fair most of the time her reaction seems wrong.

I understand both sides.

At least there is no need for that to happen again since you seem to be one of those rare ppl playing killer that know what fair play is and you got your trophies already.

Considering her reaction, she had it coming tbh

Crizpen said:

@tennmio said:
Crizpen said:

So, we've all heard the complaints about tunneling and camping. As a killer main, I don't camp unless the exit gates are open, and I try not to tunnel if it can be avoided.

While filming a video getting all the Adept killer achievements, I ran a Hag game, which I've included below, minus my commentary. What you'll see is the following kill / hook order:

• Down and hook Meg.
• Kate saves Meg.
• Down and hook Kate.
• Kate uses Deliverance to unhook herself.
• Down and hook Kate.
• Nea saves Kate.
• Down Kate, but leave her to be picked up.
• Down and hook Nea (dead).
• Down and hook Meg (dead).
• Down and hook Kate (dead).

• Down and hook David (dead).

  After the match, Kate stuck around to give me the following message:

  "tunneling ######### i hope you choke on your dads dick you worthless [BAD WORD], go apologize to the trees for wasting the oxygen they work so hard for your pathetic excuse for an existence. [BAD WORD] #########." (sic)

  Now, keep in mind, I was doing Adept, so I could only use the Hag's teachable perks. I didn't tunnel Meg when she was unhooked, I wouldn't have double-hooked Kate, but no one pulled her off. I left Kate to be picked up despite being able to kill her after she was saved by Nea. Kate was the second to last to die.

  All things considered, I don't feel like I did anything wrong. You could say using Mint Rag and Rusty Shackles constitutes "camping" if I always port back to the hook when the save is made, but I never re-hooked anyone who was already injured aside from when Kate unhooked herself with Deliverance and there wasn't a different target to chase.

  So, why exactly should killers bother to try to play by survivor "rules" for what's "fair" or "not toxic?"

Well that Kate was the only one getting tunneled after getting off the hook. Everything else was fairplay.

Maybe she took it personal being the only one tunneled and then after being on her second hook and unhooked you went for her first if I got that right.

If I'd see that happening in a game I'd probably asked you what the Kate did that you tunneled her (might have seemed like s.th personal?). So yeah I can understand that she complained. But I understand that after playing fair most of the time her reaction seems wrong.

I understand both sides.

At least there is no need for that to happen again since you seem to be one of those rare ppl playing killer that know what fair play is and you got your trophies already.

The way I see it, if someone is being farmed, I should down the person being saved, even if I don't re-hook them right away. At least the farmer is deprived of altruism points for it, and then I do hook the farmer.

I've queue'ed up the full video to my doctor fight, below, which was by far the stupidest game I've ever played in DBD. Every single survivor farmed another, aside from the David, who didn't have the chance to. Granted, I was going after the adept achievements because I logged in to find my rank reset all the way back to 20, so these aren't the best or most experienced survivors by far, and yes, I was taking advantage of having the best add-on's available to get the 4k's despite the rank, but then I never used a single mori either, but always ran streamers aside from one killer who didn't have any and had to go with a pudding instead.

At the end of the day though, when I'm playing killer, I'm there to kill. And toxic survivors and general ######### are making me feel a lot better about running the sweatiest builds I can come up with.

RoKrueger said:

We killers don't play by the survivors made up rules, we just kill and don't mind what the pray has to say. Kill them, KILL THEM ALL   

Crizpen said:

@tennmio said:
RoKrueger said:

We killers don't play by the survivors made up rules, we just kill and don't mind what the pray has to say. Kill them, KILL THEM ALL   

We are all ppl that are trying to have fun while they don't have to work.

Fairplay is s.th that exists since we invented games and competition it's not s.th "made up by survivors". Fairplay is common sense.

Actually, common sense would be to play by and respect the rules established by the game itself; that's fair play. Outside of that, the "rules" regarding what killers should and should not do were established by survivors who didn't want to compete only by the rules laid down in the game.

That isn't to say I don't understand how frustrating it can be to face a killer who camps or tunnels needlessly. I've faced my fair share of them as well, and I get why it can be so infuriating, but that isn't the same thing as the killer not playing fair, or according to the actual rules.

The original purpose of this thread was to demonstrate how killers are routinely falsely attacked in chat and on these boards for not following what survivors believe the rules ought to be. Likely because some survivors can't handle being killed, even when they live long enough to pip and get a lot of points. And further, if that's the case, there's absolutely no reason for killers to try play to their own disadvantage in order to accommodate survivors.

It's a sword that cuts both ways: if survivors want killers to play by and accept their "rules" for how killers should play, they have to respect killers and not insult them in chat and on these boards when the killer does try to play by those rules. And, even if the killer doesn't, comments like the one originally posted are completely out of line.

Yes, it is a commentary on how toxic and salty many members of the DBD community are, and no, I don't believe this thread or a thousand more like it will change that. However, survivors who are concerned about killers playing by their rules for what the killer should and should not do, ought to be calling out their teammates who engage in that behavior.

The reason for it is very simple, and I'll use the original post as an example. If I were infuriated and angry about what that survivor said to me post-match, there isn't much I can do to retaliate against that survivor, unless they happen to land in my lobby again. I can, however, say "f their rules," and take out my frustration on the next group of survivors. Maybe I'd finally try out that insidious Leatherface build to find some catharsis.

Obviously, answering toxicity with toxicity isn't the answer, but I have no doubt it's very often the result. It isn't exactly fair to the next lobby of survivors, but I find little reasons for empathy when none is displayed on the other side of the fence. So, if you want fewer toxic killers, push your fellow survivors to be less toxic as well.

I heard someone call it an honor code of sorts. Killers don't camp and use NOED and survivors don't do stupid strong window loops every chance they get and run ds. I think bming would also be part of that, like teabagging at pallets and such. I think it's up to the person and I personally avoid getting downed to the best of my ability until the end. If you're first on hook, nothing's to discourage the killer from camping and if you're solo, no one may come until you're second stage anyway.

Even with that said, by being toxic to people who aren't toxic to you, you're justifying them being toxic or you're creating toxicity. Being toxic towards people who didn't do anything to you are just going to annoy them and going to possibly create an us versus them scenario. We shouldn't be tearing each other down. We're playing a game together, just different roles. So, it should be fun for everyone, killer and survivor.

@Crizpen said:

@fluffybunny said:
I heard someone call it an honor code of sorts. Killers don't camp and use NOED and survivors don't do stupid strong window loops every chance they get and run ds. I think bming would also be part of that, like teabagging at pallets and such. I think it's up to the person and I personally avoid getting downed to the best of my ability until the end. If you're first on hook, nothing's to discourage the killer from camping and if you're solo, no one may come until you're second stage anyway.

Even with that said, by being toxic to people who aren't toxic to you, you're justifying them being toxic or you're creating toxicity. Being toxic towards people who didn't do anything to you are just going to annoy them and going to possibly create an us versus them scenario. We shouldn't be tearing each other down. We're playing a game together, just different roles. So, it should be fun for everyone, killer and survivor.

I'm not sure there's much more I could add to that photo than what is evident. It was my son's very first match as the Hillbilly, while I sat behind him trying to give any tips I could. He was level 1, with only tier 1 Enduring, and a crappy add-on to lessen the chainsaw noise. Against that, he faced a SWF, one of whom managed to de-rank himself below rank 15, 3 of whom were running all tier 3 perks. I find that a bit hard to swallow, given we're 1 day before the reset, that none of those three experienced survivors managed to rank up above 12 in a month.

This shouldn't have been a close match, even against Hillbilly. Instead, they managed to do only 2 gens. My son didn't camp the hook unless he was being looped around it, and he didn't "tunnel" unless the last person taken off the hook was the next one found as he searched without any perks to assist him in the hunt (such as BBQ and Chili, Nurse's Calling, Whispers, etc).

He didn't allow the last alive to get the hatch, but managed to down the guy before he could make the escape, though it was very close.

But because people cheat to de-rank themselves to the point of only facing brand new killers, in order to get easy wins and bully the killer during the match, they throw homophobic slurs when they still lose to a competent gamer. Of course, there was no way for my son to know they were more experienced than they ought to be at that rank, particularly this close to the monthly reset, as they were all running the base cosmetics.

What are people brand new to the game supposed to take away from toxic players like this, who try their best to torment and frustrate them as much as possible throughout the game? The killer comes away from those matches either completely frustrated as the experienced survivors endlessly loop and blind them, or they pull out a good win, and face this sort of post-match abuse. Are they likely to keep loading up the game and pushing forward, knowing things are only likely to get harder?

We're back full circle: why should killers play by these made up rules, or "honor system," when the Claudette they're chasing is just as likely a Rank 1, who de-ranked themselves, as a player fairly new to the game like themselves? Why should they play nice when playing nice earns them abuse in the post chat?

As I said before, if you want fewer toxic killers, stick up for the ones who do try to play a fair match. If you want killers to play by your honor system, it's worth offering them some positive response when they do. Because these are the types of things we do see, every day, and you either have a sense of humor about it or you just get sick of it and quit, or quit playing by these "rules."

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Same thing goes with toxicity. If you want to see less of something, you attempt to make yourself an example of the opposite of it. My point being this isn't just survivor "honor system," but killer, too, as there's things that survivors are expected not to do if they're not being toxic. To be nice and so on. It isn't just a one-sided thing. You can say that survivors are the only ones who can be toxic until you're blue in the face, but I'm pretty sure that's what camping and tunneling is. You're ruining the experience for someone else and if that's not toxic, nothing survivors could do naturally in the game is.

Also, the biggest issue in this game is that kids are playing. Children don't know how to react to things and react in negative, childish ways (such as name-calling, etc.).

@Crizpen said:

@fluffybunny said:
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Same thing goes with toxicity. If you want to see less of something, you attempt to make yourself an example of the opposite of it. My point being this isn't just survivor "honor system," but killer, too, as there's things that survivors are expected not to do if they're not being toxic. To be nice and so on. It isn't just a one-sided thing. You can say that survivors are the only ones who can be toxic until you're blue in the face, but I'm pretty sure that's what camping and tunneling is. You're ruining the experience for someone else and if that's not toxic, nothing survivors could do naturally in the game is.

Also, the biggest issue in this game is that kids are playing. Children don't know how to react to things and react in negative, childish ways (such as name-calling, etc.).

I don't think I ever said only survivors can be toxic, quite the opposite: I'm asking, why should killers not be toxic when this is what we get when we aren't:

At the time of the game, it was 12:30am, Eastern, on Sunday night/Monday morning. Okay, maybe they were west coast kids, just before bedtime, but it's quite the stretch to think that it's mostly kids when I play primarily during the weekdays and late at night (the times I'm not taking care of my own kids).

Not a single other survivor from that match said a thing, aside from piling on with more toxicity. You said, attempt to make yourself an example, and I do, but what I don't see are survivors calling each other out on being douchebags. That's my point. I see thread after thread complaining about camping and tunneling by the killers, but I don't see them standing up for killers who play the game as fair as possible, and then get crapped on in the post-match chat. After thousands, and thousands of matches in DBD, it's happened to me three times. Three. And I remember each one of them very well, because they are so rare, and those super rare times actually meant a lot to see people who "lost" actually act human after the match.

Now, if a survivor was frustrated and just left, I'm okay with that. I get it. Some matches are super frustrating if for no other reason than RNG didn't go your way, or someone has a lag spike that screws them, or the other survivors made no attempt to rescue them off the hook, or whatever the reason, it can be really frustrating some matches.

So, these are the choices I have as a killer: I can play nice and follow all the survivor rules and have slurs thrown at me after long matches, or I can tunnel the living hell out of survivor after survivor and suffer the same fate, just with less time invested.

Those aren't good options.

What I'm asking for in this thread is a third option, but it requires survivors who are willing to call out their teammates when they cross the line, or make unfounded accusations.

Or, better yet, if the dev's aren't willing to suspend and ban players who throw racial slurs around, and they clearly aren't, then give me the option of turning off post-match chat in my lobbies. I'm honestly sick of it.

Report them. That's against the rules to behave that way in the end game chat.

@Ryuhi said:
While I agree, I find it much more survivor centric to be toxic to a killer than vice versa (especially in post game chat.) In terms of gameplay its actually more beneficial for survivors to be toxic than killers, since the toxic interpretations of killer tend to be very damning vs decent players (camping and tunneling) while a lot of the toxic attitudes by survivors are seen as "strategies" to taunt the killer and draw attention away from a gen rush.

Killers being toxic tend to be either counter toxicity (like you mentioned) or a killer having a really bad day and wanting to either secure a daily or just be an [BAD WORD] to a specific person. fortunately for the other 3 people in the game, it pretty much gives them a license to wreck that killer in the process so its not as common to see.

Honestly post-game chat can be a massive issue, especially since it creates a 1 vs 4 scenario often. If I see someone flaming a killer who played well, I'll stand up for them. I've also dropped playing people who flamed and that way or told them to chill on it. If people report that sort of stuff, more should be done to ensure they aren't mistreated that way imo. I don't think it's appropriate, even if the killer camped and tunneled and just was mean.

Ya man i dont see a problem with what was written as your actions...as a survivor main...some survs are just priks...even to other survs...ive gotten so much hate mail not going to save someone from a facecamper....report that nonsense...not need to be that much of a dik to a killer who could have just camped...survs...just day gg wp and move the fuk on.

I've never understood the "rules" people like to place, and this goes for both sides.

"NO TUNNELING": Why not? My entire objective is to see you have some quality one on one time with the spider love daddy. If I know I've hooked you twice already and I see you're injured butt, I'm gonna make that meeting happen. I may also be running a perk (Remember Me comes to mind) that rewards me for targeting you.

"NO CAMPING": I don't like to camp personally, I prefer to keep moving and keep the pressure on, but I've played against Survivors who seemed convinced they couldn't do anything without everyone off a hook and so they just kept coming.

"NO SLUGGING": This one comes from a Survivor wanting that hatch, and I again point out spider daddy wants to hug ALL of the Survivors.

"RESPECT THE 4%": Respect spider daddy.

"DON'T RUN [X PERK]": Why should I put away my Ruin, or my Fire Up, my Bitter Murmur, Insidious, you name it just cause it hurts someone's feelings? Same goes with Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Self Care, Deliverance. I always aim to win, and if a perk grants me an advantage in obtaining my advantage, than I'm going to use it.

This is a game, meant for fun. People take it to serious.

I got called out tonight for camping 2 slugs.

They basically saboed 3 hooks and i dropped the first guy and got the second down with no hangmans trick on a Sprit no way was i going to make a hook and if they wanna play it lame it's their right to do so.

But don't cry foul if i get even and ruin your fun in return.