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Boons
Are there any plans to nerf Boons or will they stay as they are?
Comments
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There were already changes made to Boon Totems before they went live, they'll continue to be monitored but not plans that I can share at the moment.
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ill take a boon over DH IW
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Pretty ridiculous pair of perks overall. They're bugged and broken strong, and the devs feel like they're balanced. Glad the healing one is disabled tbh, it ruins a variety of perks on both sides.
Clearly they do not play their own game much.
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me too. I can take out a boon in a couple of seconds and they'll have to waste a lot of time blessing a totem again.
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They’re also overrated in my opinion with the limited 24 meter range and same RNG dependence like Hexes in many instances
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COH will be good against Hit and Run killers, 3 Gen strats, Sluggers.
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COH will probably be re enabled tomorrow.
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I like the concept of boons and even their power level (well, CoH at least; Shadow Step is vastly weaker for not masking survivor noises), but I wish there was a way for killers to permanently break a totem - even if that took considerably more time than snuffing it. It's fairly annoying when a totem ends up in an important tactical spot and it just turns back on every time you leave. You don't really have a viable option to deal with the perk.
Also that ringing sound feels like tinnitus and I'll often go to snuff Shadow Step even when I don't care about the perk because I need the boon to shut up. Wouldn't complain about a different sound being used.
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Be nice if the killer had a visual clue instead of that sound.
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My experience is that I hear the chime and have to decide between figuring out where the thing is or pressuring gens.
So the boon stays up, obviously.
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I pressure gens. If i’m in RPD or Lery’s I have a harder time finding the totem.
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Yeah, it's just not even a choice really. How often do you get to a gen when it's 90-99% and chase a survivor off? That's a big play and if you risk finding and snuffing a boon the gen will be done. It's just not worth it.
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Circle of Healing is no where near ridiculous. In fact, it's weaker than other healing perks for time efficiency.
Shadow Step was just needed, plain and simple. There's a massive amount of Killer aura reading perks and no counter for them on the survivor side except for Distortion.
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its so hard play spirit nerf and then swf bring iron will and boon totem. why should i play ?
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The more I play with them, the more I find them to be a waste of time (at least in solo play). I've had a few games where two or more of us had shadow step and went around the map looking for the 'perfect' spot to put a totem only to find there wasn't one around, so we pick up and search else where. all the while, no gens are getting done, the killer is chasing and hooking someone.
Though I think shadowstep can be insanely strong, the time to bless, and rng of teammates + whether their perks rely on breaking totems + totems spots makes it feel like a net loss when I can just equip the 'usual' and crank out gens as soon as I see them.
IDK, I see them like how I see Hex perks. They can be really strong, but inconsistent (again, at least as a solo queue).
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I don't think boons are a problem. I've played with them and against them and they are strong but not too strong which I like
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dh iw boons
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Sluzzy, is that you?
Seriously though, if a survivor takes both Boon Totems perks then their Boon area effectively gives the other three survivors unlimited Distortion, Lucky Break and a never-ending medkit for zero investment in time or perk slots. Having effectively 6 perks for up to 3 survivors for nothing plus a free item (effectively) isn't OP? It means that there's no value to switching away from an injured survivor. They are both completely broken.
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Really not being able to see scratch marks or blood for all survivor close to the boon. Then you’re Mmr is not high enough.
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There's also lockers, hiding behind gens, and moving outside of the aura reading range.
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I'm think that the reason that killers can't permanently break totems, because that would disable the ability to use NOED. Seems a bit of a stretch, but that's my theory.
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I usually destroy boons when I'm looking for survivors and I come across one OR I down/hook a survivor, then I'll take a couple of seconds to destroy the boon. I really haven't had a problem with them so far.
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Speaking specifically about Circle of Healing...
- Very few survivors can find a totem reliably, so the large majority of survivors are going to run Small Game or something else. So most times Boons are taking up 2 spots.
- Next, let's do the math on healing speeds for boons.
- Boons take 14 seconds to bless, 16 seconds to use. So 30 seconds for a heal.
- However, you also have to find the totem, say that takes about 16 seconds. But to err on the side of caution, let's say you're really fast at finding a totem, so 8 seconds. The heal time is now up to 38 seconds
- Since survivors won't be around the totems area of effect, they will have to travel to it. I would say on average, you will have people in it about 1/3 of the time and survivors that have to travel about 8 seconds to it the other 2/3s of the time. So 4 extra seconds for travel. The heal time is up to 42 seconds.
- First Heal - 42 seconds
- The 2nd Heal would add 16 more seconds for healing and 4 seconds travel time. So 2 heals cost survivors a total of 62 seconds, divided by 2 is 31 seconds for each heal.
- The 3rd heal would add another 20 seconds, so 82 seconds. Divided by 3 is 27 seconds for each survivor.
- If the Killer breaks the totem, which the probably will before 3 people gets heals, then you add 14 more second and 8 seconds finding the totem.
Now take Self-Care and Botany Knowledge
- If you heal yourself, you are getting 21 second heals. 21 second heals is much better than 27 second heals.
- However, if you heal someone else, you are getting 10 second heals. Boon totems will never beat Self-Care and Botany Knowledge for the speed of heals and Killers can't "snuff out" Botany Knowledge and Self Care. Botany Knowledge works for the entire team.
We'll Make it
- Single perk that gives you 8 second heals. Again, much more time efficient than Circle of Healing and benefits the entire team except yourself.
Do you see why Circle of Healing isn't a big deal. You can ignore it as Killer until you are going past it and it only hurts survivors, time-wise.
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CoH provides the benefit to all team members, which completely overrides the need for self care or health packs (not that built to last is broken either or anything)
What boons end up doing is creating territory for survivors to be safe. This is counterintuitive to most of the games fundamental dynamics.
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I know you are troll, but damn that is some selective examples.
You go into detail on all Circle of Healing cons but you don't even take into account that Self-Care and Botany Knowledge takes up two perks slots for only being able to heal yourself and you completely ignore the fact that We'll Make it requires you to run across the map to unhook someone and it only lasts 120 seconds.
You're completely missing the point that Bardon made about how one survivor can use up one perk slot to give the rest of the group unlimited 16 seconds med kit heal.
Oh no, travel time to the boon totem? Nothing compared to travel time to find another survivor to heal you.
Then we have the fact that how powerful a Circle of Healing boon totem becomes when it is placed far away from the generators. The killer has to either decide on giving up gens or giving up pressure by letting the survivor get away to heal.
only hurts survivors, time-wise.
The mark of someone that doesn't realize how 1 second for a killer is 4 seconds for the survivors.
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Botany Knowledge and We'll Make It provides benefits to all team members also. The only difference is that survivor has to go find the injured survivor, instead of the injured survivor needing to find the CoH AoE. (And with We'll Make It, it's pretty easy to find the injured survivor).
If you are running We'll Make It, you are actively looking for unhooks. Each unhook is twice as time efficient as CoH. And it affects every team mate.
If you are running Botany Knowledge alone, your teammates are getting 10 second heals and it affects every team mate.
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You go into detail on all Circle of Healing cons but you don't even take into account that Self-Care and Botany Knowledge takes up two perks slots for only being able to heal yourself and you completely ignore the fact that We'll Make it requires you to run across the map to unhook someone and it only lasts 120 seconds.
I actually did specifically mention that most survivors are going to run "Small Game" or some other totem finding perk with CoH. But also, if a player runs We'll Make It, that only takes 1 slot. If a survivor runs Botany Knowledge, that only takes 1 slot. So you really can't argue about slot efficiency.
You're completely missing the point that Bardon made about how one survivor can use up one perk slot to give the rest of the group unlimited 16 seconds med kit heal.
1 person can run We'll Make It and actively go after unhooks and be TWICE as time efficient as Circle of Healing. 8 Second Heals compared to 16 second heals from CoH. Instead of the survivor having to go to the Boon, the Boon comes to him. That's 1 perk slot used for the entire team.
Then we have the fact that how powerful a Circle of Healing boon totem becomes when it is placed far away from the generators. The killer has to either decide on giving up gens or giving up pressure by letting the survivor get away to heal.
If the Boon totem is placed far away from the generator, then the survivor has to travel to that area of effect. The further away it is, the more time the survivor has to travel to that area to heal and then away from that area to repair a gen. That's not very time efficient.
The main point is, everyone is flipping out about a perk without actually doing the math. If people did the math, then they would realize it's not that big of a deal.
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If your team never gets hooked, then you wouldn't be able to use well make it. CoH provides a proactive opportunity to create territory, which is a much more impressive and beneficial dynamic overall.
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Did they ever fix the issue with 3 survivors being able to heal each other faster than the killer can damage them inside the boon area?
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Boon totems should be destroyed when you snuff them, meaning the totem is gone.
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As for Circle of Healing, why should this totem be permanent snuffed out, when number wise, it's pretty much in line with other healing perks. It would make this perk from being in line with other healing perks to being much much worse than other healing perks.
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This is where this discussion goes both ways imo because i understand your point, but you can already just bring a medkit you don't have to rely on this certain perk by default.
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I agree with you on this. There's a lot of times I'll just bring a medkit and free up a perk slot. As a survivor, you have so many ways to get healed, that often it's better to use that slot for one of the more important slots.
Shadow Step is different but I think that we'll see more anti-aura reading perks just because there's a big void in those on the survivor side. And hopefully a buff to Distortion.
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24 seconds to bless a hex, then 16/2 = 8 seconds to heal equals 24 + 8 = 32 seconds and this does not factor in the time it takes to find a totem. which takes more than 10/20 seconds. At this point just bring self-care.
14 seconds to bless a regular totem, 8 seconds to heal = 22 seconds + the time it takes to find a totem which is more than 10 seconds. Selfcare is still faster.
And all this in a small radius around the boon. If you get injured on the other side of the map, assuming the killer doesn't instantly snuff the totem, you still have to traverse the entire map to get to your boon totem. Again, slower than self-care.
I hope monitoring also includes the possibility of them being buffed so they aren't actually useless, but likely monitoring only means let's see if we nerf them more.
Sadly, people don't take numbers/facts into accounts, just feelings. They believe boons are op and roll with it, even tho logically a heal from the boon totem takes more than a self-care heal. BUT the devs seem to respond to feelings and nerf things that are not objectively broken, just because a part of the player base feels that way because they want to feal that way.
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That was caused by a specific set of circumstances, with the boons stacking....that was adjusted before the perks went live.
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All the while you are spending an alleged 40s to create a boon, your teammates are slamming out gens. The time investment is very much worth it. Not to mention the survivors always spawn next to at least a dull totem.
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Agree with people sayng that killer should can destroy totems.
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I get why boon totems were introduced, to give survivors something else to do besides gens, a reason to go find totems, and to make solo teams a bit stronger. You could have one person running the boons and give buffs to your entire team within that area. Make it only a 24m area so that it's not too difficult to deal with, and it'll be balanced. I get it.
Here's the issue, it doesn't.
Let's take a look at Shadow step. It removes scratch marks and all aura reading abilities for killers while in that area. You would need 2 perks to accomplish that just once without the boon. So its 2 perks for the the whole team, at the cost of one person's one perk slot.
Let's take a look at COH. It gives you the self care ability with increased healing. You would also need two different perks to accomplish this on one person. This is also given to the entire team.
The problem with this is having perks that have the equivalent power of two perks, but for the whole team.
The issue, is this is great in theory for that one solo survivor that brings it for his whole team. But what actually happens most times, is one survivor wastes their time with totems for teammates that don't know how to play around it, so it doesn't get used very much and the game goes on like normal. It's the same issue with all strong perks. They're designed to give average to low tier players a better chance. But they rarely use them properly.
So what you have is very strong and abusable perks that get abused by really strong survivors and SWFs. Which is why in some matches they don't seem strong in some matches but unbeatable in others. How many times have you gone against average Survivors who dead hard into a wall and you smack them down while laughing? And then in another match one survivor loops you for 2-4 minutes because of a single dead hard.
Same thing here. One decent team running both totems on 2-3 of the survivors, while also using the meta perks, and you now have map wide super heals and no way to track them. So even if you hit someone, they just use any of the many line of sight breakers and they're gone. Then they heal to full. Even if you manage to snuff the totem, once you find someone and commit, another teammate will just go put it back up while the other two stack on gens.
So in short, the problems with boons is the same as always, balanced for low level gameplay, super strong and almost unbeatable at high levels of play. Luckily, the amount of times you get full sweat teams is rare right? Nope! SBMM made sure that you continue getting these same type of strong survivors that know how to abuse the strength of these perks. So then every game will feel unplayable.
I actually faced a team with just the Shadow step boons yesterday on springwood, they also had spine chill quick and quiet and iron will. There was 4 gens done in 3 minutes and I hadn't seen a single survivor. I'd patrol gens, but by the time I could get from one to another they'd be gone. Search the entire area and all lockers, nothing. Stomp out the totem, head towards the other gen I heard being worked on. Before I even get there the other totem is already back on, and run into the same issue, they're just gone. Snuff the totem after looking for them, kick the gen, look elsewhere. 3 minutes and 4 gens later without a single survivor seen.
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