http://dbd.game/killswitch
Message for solo survivors
If the killer is camping (especially if can oneshot people) do those goddamn generators. People always complain about camping, but if camping is actually one of the strongest strategies in the game is because YOU give all this power to it.
Comments
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Camping isn't a problem because somebody thinks it's a strong strategy... it has more to do with taking a player hostage and not allowing them to play.
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After 40sec and hooked guy is still on hook, I will think of others rushing Gens and I come to unhook him. Just to see other 2 guys also lurking around the hook. Because Kindred is not always happens.
Solo isnt stupid, they just lack of info.
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You can't take a player hostage, it's a gameplay mechanic, a part of the game and we must accept it (sadly), like "tunneling" and "genrushing". They are boring? Yes. They can be countered efficiently and easily? Yes. The real problem are people who REFUSE to adapt to some kind of playstyle when you are forced to play in a certain way in order to have good chances of escaping/killing.
Just an example: I previously did a match against a bubba facecamper, he won, killing everyone. You know why he didn't have troubles? Cause I was THE ONLY ONE that was working on generators. Wanna know what the others did? They were swarming the hook... Aganist a bubba (and it was already obvious from the noise that the chainsaw did, paired with the aura of the downed survivor that was leaving the locker in the 1st chase)... Without insidious...
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It sucks to have to burn a perk slot for it but it's why I always run Kindred. Camping is too rampant to not have it.
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I don't think it's worth trying to counter it as solo. Where's the reward for it?
I've had a game very recently where a Bubba started camping instantly at five gens.
Everyone was doing the "right" thing and did gens, but if you're solo, first you have to figure out that the killer is actually camping. Then the time that guy was on hook was not enough to do all five gens and open the gates.
So at some point we had to do a dumb rescue that obviously resulted in a hook swap. Eventually the gens were done and we had the gates open and three got barely out ... actually that guy had NOED as well and everyone always says "just do gens" but the thing is that you don't just have to rush five gens but also cleanse five totems, too. All in the two minutes that one person is on hook? What a realistic counter!
Anyway, since we had to leave someone behind, that resulted in a penalty on the Benevolent emblem. If I'm doing the right thing, why is this not being rewarded in emblems?
Oh wait, the reward is then the bloodpoints, right? Nope. I was the highest scoring survivor and had 12k bps. The camper still got more than I did thanks to the required hook swapping, 13k bps.
So, honestly, if what we did was the right thing, why don't I get any reward for it? It's certainly not fun either, because the "experience" is just holding a button and not wanting to interact with the killer at any cost, in a multiplayer game where the fun and excitement comes from interaction with other players.
Plus, if I let the camper get me and kill myself on hook and he gets his 4k, he'll get pushed up in MMR and will get the 4SWF groups that are properly equipped and on comms to deal with that crap. And I go down in MMR until I get killers that are bad enough that they can't secure a kill even if they camp.
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This is why Kindred, Empathy and Bond should be basekit.
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Wrong, you absolutely can take a player hostage in this game and Facecamping bubbas almost always take the hooked survivor’s opportunity to play the game because his power can down multiple people at once preventing a difficult save and even if it’s pulled off in front of him the hooked survivor can go down immediately even with borrowed time. Unlike genrushing, as killer you still get to move freely around the map at all times.
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I agree.
However, sometimes when I play SoloQ I need to go see if the killer is actually camping, then I will hop on a gen or trade if I must.
These days you have to trade at least one more time, if you want to get 3 out.
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It would help if camped players actually sung from the same hymn sheet, instead of suiciding on hook if nobody comes. People seem like they HAVE to go save because they'll attempt escapes if not which almosts loses the game anyway. Another point, minus kindred, how are survivors meant to know there teammate is being camped without going to look .....
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Being on a hook isn't being held hostage. Part of the gameplay loop for survivors is being on the hook where you don't get many options.
Sometimes you'll die on first or second hook, that's just part of the game.
If you want to play a role that is always guaranteed to always be able to engage in actions then you should play killer instead.
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Hooking a player is a gameplay mechanic. Camping the hook and not allowing anyone to unhook them is, at best, holding that player hostage until they die.
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That's why you gotta run kindred in solo queue. because sometimes you'll have 2 maybe 3 survivors come to the hook and it all goes south from there.
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I'm fairly sure I would define 'not being allowed to do anything all game' as being held hostage. Whether it's legal or not isn't the point; the facecamped player doesn't get to play the game and has wasted all their items and offerings. The rest is semantics.
Being hooked is part of the gameplay loop, but it's not meant to be the entirety of the experience. No game would shove the bulk of its 'gameplay' into a time-out zone where the only input you have is to quit the game.
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Technically you can still try to unhook yourself and decide to hit skillchecks or not. But regardless being hooked is part of the game. Just because your actions are limited while on a hook does not mean you are being held hostage.
You will either die on hook or get saved. Being held hostage implies that you have no option to die or escape.
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You can't unhook yourself if the killer is standing in front of you facecamping, which is the situation we're discussing. If you have DS, there's an 11.5% chance you can kobe and make it away from the hook. There's an 88.5% chance you kill 60 of the 120 seconds your death would have brought your team to do gens and escape unharmed, guaranteeing the facecamper will catch someone else before the game ends.
There's no agency but to die sooner or die later. I think the issue here is that you're conflating 'held hostage' with the specific terminology meant as a reportable offense, where you leave someone in a position where they can only disconnect. That's not the only meaning of the term. Again, semantics.
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As you said, until he dies... If a survivor will eventually die those kind of actions (let someone bleed to death or camping) cannot be classified as taking the game hostage (thanks the devs for this) cause the game will (slowly) progress until the final outcome
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That means when survivors who are hiding and not doing gens are also keeping the game hostage…
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I just want the poor bastard to be able to play the game.
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What you guys did was rare. The challenge with that is, our community keeps trying to do what y’all did successfully, on a consistent basis. The odds are not in our favor to be altruistic with campers- that’s what they rely on and take advantage of. So what happens more often than not- is the killer being rewarded rather than punished. There are too many variables to repeat what y’all did, consistently. Mainly skill set of every player- including the killer.
You are absolutely correct in not being able to do all gens in time for that one person. Usual best case scenario is to get them all done by the time the second person is on hook, 99 the nearest exit gate, and try to get the last min save. If not, at the very least Sacrafice two survivors so two can escape, as opposed to giving the killer his usual 4 survivors for doing absolutely nothing. Only then will the sting of constant, BORING draws will get them to stop.
It’s not that someone thinks it- they know it to be a strong strategy, otherwise they wouldn’t do it. These type of players have more success camping than actually playing the game, so they’re going to continue unless the community gets on the same page and makes it a dull unproductive tactic.
On a side note, I truly believe we have a lot of kids/minors/teenagers playing Dead by Daylight, and this is something us as a community needs to take a look at. There is a lot of immature & novice behavior in our games. We mustn’t assume because it’s an MA game, that there is a mature adult behind every in game character. A lot of the toxic behavior is most likely coming from that age group. Don’t get me wrong, plenty of mature kids out there- skilled as well. Same for the other side- lots of immature adults with no skill. But my hypothesis is the camping, tunneling, hitting on the hook, teabagging, ragequitting, body blocking, trolling, etc.- is little Timmy being unsportsmanlike.
If they ever turn on the mics, I think we all will be in for a rude awakening…
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No the issue is that you're trying to stretch the meaning onto other things that don't count. In DBD "holding the game/player hostage" is a reportable offense that has a specific definition, hence all the people saying that's not holding the game hostage. The survivors game will naturally eventually end, so its not holding the game hostage. Use a different term.
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You aren't holding the game hostage, but you are quite literally holding the survivor hostage. Rofl. Like, you can't argue against that.
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how to counter tunnel and genrush?
only genrushing counter tunneling and thats only counter of genrush
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Their game will end naturally so they're not hostage. Its not more complicated than that.
Does it suck: yes
Is it held hostage: no
Should we work on fixing it: yes
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So, those perks being basekit in SWF don't destroy killers, but if soloQ had them - that would definitely destroy killers... somehow. Interesting.
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Are you saying they are not being held hostage because they can suicide? That is pretty dark, Mr. Penguin.
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lol, well yes.
Their other option is to wait for their death.
In a funny way, that kinda fits lore wise.
As far as I'm concerned the only viable solution is to rework the way hooks and hook states operate in a way that disincentives camping without screwing over the killer. That's a lot of hard work so BHVR won't do it.
Throwing an idea out there, a pool of shared team hooks that once depleted all the survivors get sacrificed ala EGC animation, 6-8 hooks and killer wins, you don't have hook states anymore, you can always be saved as long as your team has hooks remaining. 99% of perks don't need to be reworked as no perk requires dead survivors except sole survivor afaik. Killer is pushed to go after others without losing the option of defending from saves and doesn't get punished for not tunneling. Pushes teamwork from survivors.
But nothing like that is ever happening sadly. Very very sadly.
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The fact they are playing solo and not using kindred means they are.
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And the award for worst take of the day goes to......🥁🥁🥁🥁
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You need to look up what holding the game hostage means. Nothing on a timer qualifies.
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This just similar to saying not using Calm spirit when vs Doctor is stupid.
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No it isn't. kindred works on all killers and always gives needed info during hooks. Calm spirit vs doc is just luck and has less value against other killers although not scaring crows is beneficial.
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There is a possible solution to camping "in the works," but, unfortunately, when it comes to the implementation of this new mechanic, the fate of solo survivors is in the hands of SWF and Killers.
What do I mean by that?
All of the previous attempts to change the hook mechanics and thwart camping have been discarded... because of survivors; survivors who exploited the new mechanic to screw the killer over completely.
The two groups most likely to find a way to abuse this new mechanic will be SWF, who already look for any and every way to keep the match in their favor, and killers, who don't want their precious camping removed and will find any way to prove that the mechanic is completely busted and unfair (whether looking for it while playing killer or as survivor)
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This is the correct play. Pump generator and don't reward the killer anymore kills :^) I'll happily hold onto the hook and delay.
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☝️☝️ this always happens to me since day 1 of playing this game. And still being treated like this in the game.
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Result: you lose MMR (the maximum amount of it to that, because you died first) and descend into the Elo Hell with potato teammates. The killer achieved what he intended to: to make you lose MMR while also stealing several minutes of your time. Rushing gens is not a "counter" to camping, at least not for the one being camped. For that one player there is no counter at all. Pretty good balance so far.
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I'm sorry, but you are wrong. You think I paid my money just to get hooked and stared at with no way of getting out except of a suicide? And what if this happens twice, thrice or even more times after? It basically prevents you from playing at all, regardless of your purhcasing intent .
So yes, that killer is taking survivor hostage for not letting him play at all. And it should be a viable reason for a refund no matter how long you've been playing this game.
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Solo queue will always require an headache pill most times you play, you have the scared rat who does nothing but hides all day while one person is being chased, one is parked on a gen that you literally saw them just starting it was not on it to begin with, then most likely you then become stage 2, you have the wierdo who you unhooked while you where injured and wanna clicky or smash the ground begging you to heal them then all of a sudden after you heal them they do not heal you back they run off. It is for this same reason in a solo queue purpose I strictly must have self care. You have the wierdo who pulls you off the hook without borrow time and the killer is still close by patrolling. You have wierd killers who instead they get the person that they have not seen all day killing out the team of good people and have the nerves to give them hatch/exist gates or team up with that no contributing survivor a free past.
I had a match where me one swf and 2 randoms an ace and david. David gets down early then start killing himself off hook, my friend saves him and top him up, he was just standing there nemesis down him again but then leaves him on the floor. I and ace attempt to go pick up david as my friend is being chase and david kept wiggling from us as saying I wanna dont play no more so we left him. Nemesis kills ace , my friend and what blow my mind was he let david wiggle out instead of hooking him and david literally leads him to where am working on a gen apparently working with the killer, I just dced when they both was coming. I wonder how stupid a killer can be to get rid of the people who does all the work in the team and let the afker or scared rat get a free past, if am killer and there is a person I see not doing nothing for the team I get em out fast and just let the others go if that team themselves can tell they got a child wanting to carry them. I may start using divergence and use it to snuff out scared rats, wanna be in them damn lockers so much.
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Ah yes, oversimplification of a very complex problem.
Do I know that the killer is camping because you or I have Kindred equipped? If not, are other survivors on the way to rescue you? Or have I come from across the map, because no one else has saved you yet - only to now find them at the hook too? Oh, and even if I stick to repairing a generator, it’s 60 seconds per hook state vs. 80 seconds on a generator solo. You’ll be in stage two by the time I can get a full generator done myself, then need time to get to the next one.
Bottom line: a camped survivor will mathematically be dead before all generators can be completed - even at full efficiency. Killer then only has to deal with three survivors - a totally different game.
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Actually went to do a escape streak after that with good teammates hence I'm running a loadout with no DS at all. I'm that confident with my teammates :^) sometimes match like this happens but whatever.
I didn't say it was a counter to camping though? The best thing you could do is not reward the killer with even more kills but if you want to kill on hook and make a pity party in the forum I guess that would be ideal.
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Solo que is especially vulnerable to camping and tunneling. It's an easy win strategy vs solo. They don't have the ability to share information like SWF does.
Killer is camping with NOED and Warden.
1. Solo survivors can't tell there is camping until they physically check it out. This means wasted time off of gens.
2. They then miraculously do the right thing and focus on hens. The camped player will likely due before much is done due to #1. Maybe 2 to gens are done.
3. 2nd player is now being camped.
4. Last gens are done. Players rush for door, but killer cuts one off and NOED claims a victim. See, each of the 3 remaining survivors did a totem, but have no way to know if all the totems are done. If one ran Small Game, that one knows, but has no time to waste in order to find the rest.
5. Killer opens gate, hooks the NOED victim, triggering Blood Warden.
EZ 3 to 4k. If you throw Monstrous Shrine or No Way Out in there, it's even worse. I've even seen TotH used to slow totem cleansing down enough to force solos to waste time.
Solo que survivors should have some baseline data points. Kindred, totem counters and maybe even Alert. Then rebalance killers to the higher level of info, thus closing the gap with SWF.
That's all a pipe dream though. BHVR will never figure this stuff out. If only they had some group trying to inform them.....
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Agreed. This is exactly the problem with camping and I've said this a lot myself.
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Camping dont bother me at all in SWF because I much rather my friends or family escape, for a wierd reason though solo queue wise yes I admit it pisses me off to the core specially again I did lots of contribution and the scared rat that did 0 things and lives. To be honest I will purposely kamikaze on hook so the rest of potatoes of solo queue also dies as well if they were doing no team effort, however if they did try then it dont bug me as much. I really just wish killers consider picking out the rats more than the good ones.
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The devs refuse to close the solo-SWF gap and balance around groups. It's killing the game in the process balance wise and they just don't care.
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I didn't say it was holding a game hostage...
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Game hostage. Player hostage. A minor semantic there but the game itself has a definitive definition of use of the word "hostage", and nothing on a timer is held hostage. As hooks are on a time, along with slugging and the EGC, nothing involving those three things is held hostage. Bodyblocking in the corner, THAT is holding a player hostage.
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Uh... yeah sure, I guess if we're only using made up rules and cant find a way to fix camping... sure, it's not holding a player hostage... just preventing them from playing the game until they are dead
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They are not prevented from playing the game. Being hooked is a consequence of that survivor making three failed checks in a row.
If you are on a hook, you got spotted by the killer. That's fail #1. He then chased you, and nailed a hit on you. That is fail #2. You then got a sprint burst and a chance to run away, and you lost that chase, too. That is fail #3.
Survivors need to stop acting like being on the hook is some punishment they got for doing no wrong and realize it is a natural consequence of a game with chases. A huge amount of the Survivor player base says "Being in a chase is the only fun part of the game". Well, chases have consequences. The killer's objective is to hook you. Why do you think you are entitled to be unhooked?
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I cant believe you're actually trying to have this conversation right now...
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I can't believe I keep hearing people cry about being on the hook when it's one of the most fundamental aspects of the game. What do you expect the killer to do? Leave you on the ground to - oh wait. That's called slugging, and that makes Killers scumbags, too. I forgot.
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We already talked about this earlier. I even said that being on hook is a gameplay mechanic. That does not make camping acceptable in any way, shape, or form. At least not without making up rules that allow such things to happen and more or less spiral out of control. We wouldnt be talking about camping if it wasn't an issue for anyone.
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