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Why hatch is ruining survivor and killer games
If I may offer an alternative idea while still keeping the hatch. Hatch doesn’t spawn AT ALL unless ALL generators are complete. This will keep the killer and fellow survivors engaged all the way until endgame. I believe this will increase the QOL of the game , as well as force survivors to work together , and deplete the amount of hatch standoffs. Thank you. - your friendly campfire survivor.
Comments
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The hatch is a mechanic summoned into the game to lower the frustration Death-Efficiency causes.
Currently, when 1 or 2 people die, the game can barely progress and more often "regresses" for survivors.
Because it's very un fun for survivors knowing they already lost and running to the killer just so that they can leave the game, we need to have a "free escape" mechanic to solve this effect.
Of course it would've been better from the start that we solved the Death-Efficiency problem, thus altering the game in such a way that lower-survivor count teams can still progress and do not have to rely on a minigame within the game (hatch) will allow us to change the Hatch into a fair mechanic.
But the problem that lead to the creation of the hatch has to be tackled first, before tackling the hatch itself;
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I think that when there is enough generators done for the hatch to spawn based on the remaining survivors left , that they should each have to gather a piece from the map that opens the hatch only together unless you're the last one alive and then require 10 seconds to open no matter how many left so hatch camping won't happen anymore and you have to earn the escape by finding your objective and spending the time to open it instead of doing gens, you have high risk but also a high reward while the killer can stop you in the middle of trying to open it so you can't just teabag in front of his face as soon as you find the hatch, you're one of the last left you be stealthy or you die .HeroLives said:more often than not when playing solo the matches end up being down to 2 survivors and the killer all playing the waiting game while more often than not , nothing gets done objectively after the first three generators are finished. I believe this ruins the experience for solo players as well as killers.
If I may offer an alternative idea while still keeping the hatch. Hatch doesn’t spawn AT ALL unless ALL generators are complete. This will keep the killer and fellow survivors engaged all the way until endgame. I believe this will increase the QOL of the game , as well as force survivors to work together , and deplete the amount of hatch standoffs. Thank you. - your friendly campfire survivor.0 -
I have never experienced 2 people dossing around doing nothing. I think your idea would be good if it were one person left because that can take ages, then when the hatch is found its a 15 min standoff. But then you would have a huge advantage because of the very limited number of gens left on the map. Maybe it would work if there was an extra gen?
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The hatch is there to prevent survivors from losing hope that the entity feeds off of.
It's there to keep the 4th from getting completely screwed by potato allies and being ledlft with 1 to 3 gens left to do solo.
It's so killers don't get a guarenteed 4k no matter how big their murder boner is.
It's not perfect, but making it near impossible to access in dire straits is not the way to go.3 -
Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.0
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Take it from someone who 95%of the time solo plays once there’s 2 generators left if there is 3 or less survivors and they’ve all been hooked atleast once team efficiency drops tremendously because fear starts setting in and survivors become afraid to do the objective most of the time. They’ll just wander around hiding more than trying to get the generators done.Legacy_Zealot said:I have never experienced 2 people dossing around doing nothing. I think your idea would be good if it were one person left because that can take ages, then when the hatch is found its a 15 min standoff. But then you would have a huge advantage because of the very limited number of gens left on the map. Maybe it would work if there was an extra gen?
If you question this I recommend running survivor aura perks and play atleast 10 solo games. You’ll see exactly what I mean. You can see this already for a short time if you’re the one hooked watching the other survivor walk around waiting until you die. Watching the other 2 run around doing nothing until you die. Especially if it’s just you and one other survivor the odds are increased. there’s not much of an incentive to work as a team if you know your reward of hatch is greater than your odds of rescuing or working together.
I think that this causes more selfish gameplay on a team game. Where your team in turn works against its own greatest good as a whole.
When you realize nobody is doing the objective , trying to do the objective on your own puts you at a greater risk of being found forcing the survivor into a selfish gameplay style of hiding and playing “who gets caught first”
On the the other side killer side
the killer is forced to wander around looking while the survivors aren’t doing the objective.
the killer is forced to slug in order to prevent hatch.
the killer is forced to camp as bait which ultimately results in one survivor getting away from squatting or hatch standoff.
neither is fair to either side. In theory the hatch”works”
however you have to ask yourself if it causes more problems than solutions.
I vote to just remove it.
The other issues can be balanced after that.
slugging still a high issue? Implement built in unbreakable
camping still an issue? Implement a no regression for hooked survivor while killer is within x feet while no other survivors are nearby.
gens being done way too fast at beginning implement survivor alive count where the more alive the slower gen progression is, it grows as they a killed off( a built in progression /regression mechanic)
implement totems as an actual task with on screen counter like generators. You must do gens to open one door , totems to open the other. Giving the killer more time to breath during the game whether it be early or late. However the totem door cannot be opened “early” (meaning the all generators are not completed).
The problem is there are perks in game to counter all the major issues however , only so many perk slots available. By implementing perks on both sides as built mechanics that combat this it will actually fix the majority of the issues on both sides.
Ie : noed, ruin(active until all totems are cleansed), brutal strength , iron grasp, bbq and chilli, kindred, borrowed time, sole survivor or left behind, unbreakable , self care at a flat rate.
These alone being built in would fix so many issues on both sides that it would promote better gameplay with both sides.
Also completely remove hatch unless all generators are finished, and all but 1 survivor has escaped .Can still be opened with a key however only once all generators completed then upon which all survivors remaining can still use as an alternative to doors.
This would allow the developers to fix key issues for both sides without drastically having to gut and recode a new gameplay mechanic.0 -
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.
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Not if the Killer hits the Survivor before they get too close. At that point, it's not a stand-off so much as a race to the Hatch.Rebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.0 -
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.TAG said:
Not if the Killer hits the Survivor before they get too close. At that point, it's not a stand-off so much as a race to the Hatch.Rebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.0 -
@HeroLives said:
If I may offer an alternative idea while still keeping the hatch. Hatch doesn’t spawn AT ALL unless ALL generators are complete. This will keep the killer and fellow survivors engaged all the way until endgame.How many times you manage to power the gates when in a 2v1 or 1v1? I bet not so many. Well in all the other cases the match would only be dragged for an unnecessarily long time unless the survivors just give up out of boredom and let the killer hook them.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
The hatch is there to prevent survivors from losing hope that the entity feeds off of.
It's there to keep the 4th from getting completely screwed by potato allies and being ledlft with 1 to 3 gens left to do solo.
It's so killers don't get a guarenteed 4k no matter how big their murder boner is.It's not perfect, but making it near impossible to access in dire straits is not the way to go.
You get points for killing 4 people, you get points for escaping.
You can bully the killer at the hatch, not just escape.I don't think killer mains are angry about not getting their 2500 points, which they actually earned, because they won the game and the survivors lost, but because it's a free and easy to get escape with no penalty at all.
You even get more points for winning like this and you can't loose at a hatch standoff if you enter after getting hit.
I don't want the hatch to go or something.
I just demand when the killer is at the hatch with the survivor, the killer wins.Implementing a more userfriendly hatch mechanic is easy:
A killer hits you, you can't use the hatch for like 5 seconds, the killer downs you, you can't get in the hatch for 5 seconds.
Should have taken the hatch, when the survivor had the chance to.
If the killer blocks it, do gens, distract the killer.
Use the sprint boost you get from getting hit to enter the hatch.If survivors abuse the mechanic still (going too far away to get hit and use their sprint burst to get immediatly to the hatch):
Insta down the survivor if you are near the hatch or in general when you are alone with the killer.Easier implementations:
Close the hatch for 30 seconds as killer like in the PTB, but with it opening after 30 seconds or a gen done.It's not that hard to balance the hatch, devs are just lazy and don't want the hate from entitled survivor mains.
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I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.0 -
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.0 -
@HeroLives said:
more often than not when playing solo the matches end up being down to 2 survivors and the killer all playing the waiting game while more often than not , nothing gets done objectively after the first three generators are finished. I believe this ruins the experience for solo players as well as killers.If I may offer an alternative idea while still keeping the hatch. Hatch doesn’t spawn AT ALL unless ALL generators are complete. This will keep the killer and fellow survivors engaged all the way until endgame. I believe this will increase the QOL of the game , as well as force survivors to work together , and deplete the amount of hatch standoffs. Thank you. - your friendly campfire survivor.
LULS... I like the subject of your thread.. Basically trying to say it kills both sides of the game, then present an idea geared to letting the killers win.
So.. One survivor left... 3 gens to go.. but the survivor is supposed to do all those gens without being found by the killer...LULS.
Once it gets to one survivor, the game changes and is no longer about getting gens to get out. That is why the hatch is there in the first place.
Killer don't want survivors to have a free escape, and survivors don't want killers to have a free kill.
Another idea please.
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The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.0 -
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch.0 -
In that case, the Survivor is incentivized to leave and do a gen, and the Killer is incentivized to chase because they can down in one hit, but by doing so, the risk of losing the hatch is greater. It's easier for one or the other to lose the hatch battle.Rebel_Raven said:
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch.0 -
You missed the point. The point is I believe removing the hatch will make it so you and the other remaining survivors have to work together. At its current state hatch causes solo games as survivor to already be killer sided Bc the SURVIVORS STOP WORKING TOGETHER ONCE IT’S DOWN TO 2 GENS. Why? Bc it imposes the mentality to the survivor group that if all else fails atleast one of them can get hatch (and they all want it). Once it’s down to two gens survivors feel they now have a “safety net” resulting in less team work.TheBean said:@HeroLives said:
more often than not when playing solo the matches end up being down to 2 survivors and the killer all playing the waiting game while more often than not , nothing gets done objectively after the first three generators are finished. I believe this ruins the experience for solo players as well as killers.If I may offer an alternative idea while still keeping the hatch. Hatch doesn’t spawn AT ALL unless ALL generators are complete. This will keep the killer and fellow survivors engaged all the way until endgame. I believe this will increase the QOL of the game , as well as force survivors to work together , and deplete the amount of hatch standoffs. Thank you. - your friendly campfire survivor.
LULS... I like the subject of your thread.. Basically trying to say it kills both sides of the game, then present an idea geared to letting the killers win.
So.. One survivor left... 3 gens to go.. but the survivor is supposed to do all those gens without being found by the killer...LULS.
Once it gets to one survivor, the game changes and is no longer about getting gens to get out. That is why the hatch is there in the first place.
Killer don't want survivors to have a free escape, and survivors don't want killers to have a free kill.
Another idea please.
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The endgame for sure needs a rework. Whether it be reworking the hatch or removing it for a better alternative. Once a survivor sees or hears the hatch, it's a gg, and I dont think that's quite fair. So I'm with ya on this, friend!1
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Too many times have I ran across other people in solos just camping a hatch simply Bc it spawned.Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:The endgame for sure needs a rework. Whether it be reworking the hatch or removing it for a better alternative. Once a survivor sees or hears the hatch, it's a gg, and I dont think that's quite fair. So I'm with ya on this, friend!0 -
The way I see it, if a survivor is last man standing without the doors being powered, they have failed as a team. Maybe instead of rewarding points for escaping through the hatch, a penalty to bloodpoints would make more sense. This way the survivor wouldn't leave without getting some points, but would still be awarded considerably less than completing their primary objective. Maybe this would encourage the survivor to try for the gates. Also, if the survivor lost the item they were carrying to the entity when using the hatch, it would make sense for them to give the gates a try as well.
In the end I would welcome anything that encourages survivors to keep going for the gates over the hatch, but still leaving the hatch as a last resort.
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@HeroLives said:
Legacy_Zealot said:I have never experienced 2 people dossing around doing nothing. I think your idea would be good if it were one person left because that can take ages, then when the hatch is found its a 15 min standoff. But then you would have a huge advantage because of the very limited number of gens left on the map. Maybe it would work if there was an extra gen?
Take it from someone who 95%of the time solo plays once there’s 2 generators left if there is 3 or less survivors and they’ve all been hooked atleast once team efficiency drops tremendously because fear starts setting in and survivors become afraid to do the objective most of the time. They’ll just wander around hiding more than trying to get the generators done.
If you question this I recommend running survivor aura perks and play atleast 10 solo games. You’ll see exactly what I mean. You can see this already for a short time if you’re the one hooked watching the other survivor walk around waiting until you die. Watching the other 2 run around doing nothing until you die. Especially if it’s just you and one other survivor the odds are increased. there’s not much of an incentive to work as a team if you know your reward of hatch is greater than your odds of rescuing or working together.
I think that this causes more selfish gameplay on a team game. Where your team in turn works against its own greatest good as a whole.
When you realize nobody is doing the objective , trying to do the objective on your own puts you at a greater risk of being found forcing the survivor into a selfish gameplay style of hiding and playing “who gets caught first”
On the the other side killer side
the killer is forced to wander around looking while the survivors aren’t doing the objective.
the killer is forced to slug in order to prevent hatch.
the killer is forced to camp as bait which ultimately results in one survivor getting away from squatting or hatch standoff.neither is fair to either side. In theory the hatch”works”
however you have to ask yourself if it causes more problems than solutions.I vote to just remove it.
The other issues can be balanced after that.
slugging still a high issue? Implement built in unbreakable
camping still an issue? Implement a no regression for hooked survivor while killer is within x feet while no other survivors are nearby.gens being done way too fast at beginning implement survivor alive count where the more alive the slower gen progression is, it grows as they a killed off( a built in progression /regression mechanic)
implement totems as an actual task with on screen counter like generators. You must do gens to open one door , totems to open the other. Giving the killer more time to breath during the game whether it be early or late. However the totem door cannot be opened “early” (meaning the all generators are not completed).
The problem is there are perks in game to counter all the major issues however , only so many perk slots available. By implementing perks on both sides as built mechanics that combat this it will actually fix the majority of the issues on both sides.
Ie : noed, ruin(active until all totems are cleansed), brutal strength , iron grasp, bbq and chilli, kindred, borrowed time, sole survivor or left behind, unbreakable , self care at a flat rate.
These alone being built in would fix so many issues on both sides that it would promote better gameplay with both sides.
Also completely remove hatch unless all generators are finished, and all but 1 survivor has escaped .Can still be opened with a key however only once all generators completed then upon which all survivors remaining can still use as an alternative to doors.
This would allow the developers to fix key issues for both sides without drastically having to gut and recode a new gameplay mechanic.
Whilst I feel as though I have read text as long as the bible you make a very good point. I do play solo surv sometimes and I suppose I have been very fortunate to have not encountered this.
We need more people like you making astute points like the one above on the forums.
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hatch is not fair at all, and believe me, I know, I play legion too much and seemingly, they are some that are a pain to apply map pressure, if you dont like dealing with hatch, just apply map pressure nurse and hillbilly are the proud holders of easiest to apply pressure due to hillbilly's 1 hit chainsaw and nurses ability to down a survivor within the first 10 seconds of the match is blinking to a survivor spawn
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I advice you too look up what a real hatch standoff is lolRebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.1 -
Or easier fix just remove finding the closed hatch on till all 5 gens are done simple easy done no more hatch camping for the guy to die no more standoffs from killer finding it early and if people want to play the hatch game with a key you have to do all the gens so it's a huge risks reward1
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Thank you.Legacy_Zealot said:@HeroLives said:
Legacy_Zealot said:I have never experienced 2 people dossing around doing nothing. I think your idea would be good if it were one person left because that can take ages, then when the hatch is found its a 15 min standoff. But then you would have a huge advantage because of the very limited number of gens left on the map. Maybe it would work if there was an extra gen?
Take it from someone who 95%of the time solo plays once there’s 2 generators left if there is 3 or less survivors and they’ve all been hooked atleast once team efficiency drops tremendously because fear starts setting in and survivors become afraid to do the objective most of the time. They’ll just wander around hiding more than trying to get the generators done.
If you question this I recommend running survivor aura perks and play atleast 10 solo games. You’ll see exactly what I mean. You can see this already for a short time if you’re the one hooked watching the other survivor walk around waiting until you die. Watching the other 2 run around doing nothing until you die. Especially if it’s just you and one other survivor the odds are increased. there’s not much of an incentive to work as a team if you know your reward of hatch is greater than your odds of rescuing or working together.
I think that this causes more selfish gameplay on a team game. Where your team in turn works against its own greatest good as a whole.
When you realize nobody is doing the objective , trying to do the objective on your own puts you at a greater risk of being found forcing the survivor into a selfish gameplay style of hiding and playing “who gets caught first”
On the the other side killer side
the killer is forced to wander around looking while the survivors aren’t doing the objective.
the killer is forced to slug in order to prevent hatch.
the killer is forced to camp as bait which ultimately results in one survivor getting away from squatting or hatch standoff.neither is fair to either side. In theory the hatch”works”
however you have to ask yourself if it causes more problems than solutions.I vote to just remove it.
The other issues can be balanced after that.
slugging still a high issue? Implement built in unbreakable
camping still an issue? Implement a no regression for hooked survivor while killer is within x feet while no other survivors are nearby.gens being done way too fast at beginning implement survivor alive count where the more alive the slower gen progression is, it grows as they a killed off( a built in progression /regression mechanic)
implement totems as an actual task with on screen counter like generators. You must do gens to open one door , totems to open the other. Giving the killer more time to breath during the game whether it be early or late. However the totem door cannot be opened “early” (meaning the all generators are not completed).
The problem is there are perks in game to counter all the major issues however , only so many perk slots available. By implementing perks on both sides as built mechanics that combat this it will actually fix the majority of the issues on both sides.
Ie : noed, ruin(active until all totems are cleansed), brutal strength , iron grasp, bbq and chilli, kindred, borrowed time, sole survivor or left behind, unbreakable , self care at a flat rate.
These alone being built in would fix so many issues on both sides that it would promote better gameplay with both sides.
Also completely remove hatch unless all generators are finished, and all but 1 survivor has escaped .Can still be opened with a key however only once all generators completed then upon which all survivors remaining can still use as an alternative to doors.
This would allow the developers to fix key issues for both sides without drastically having to gut and recode a new gameplay mechanic.
Whilst I feel as though I have read text as long as the bible you make a very good point. I do play solo surv sometimes and I suppose I have been very fortunate to have not encountered this.
We need more people like you making astute points like the one above on the forums.
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Oh, do explain!DwightsLifeMatters said:
I advice you too look up what a real hatch standoff is lolRebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.
Pretty sure it's when the killer is camping the hatch and the survivor wants in.0 -
You would think so, but why when it's easier to just get hit, and get the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade? It doesn't matter how long it takes, it's just easier.TAG said:
In that case, the Survivor is incentivized to leave and do a gen, and the Killer is incentivized to chase because they can down in one hit, but by doing so, the risk of losing the hatch is greater. It's easier for one or the other to lose the hatch battle.Rebel_Raven said:
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch.
I mean the option to leave and do gens for what ever reason exists now, but in my experience people rarely take it.
I've watched a lot of hatch standoffs on youtube, and in reality haven't given that much a damn if they get it or not.0 -
If the Survivor becomes exposed while the Hatch is open, just playing Chicken no longer is effective because the Killer making the first move now has a higher chance of succeeding. The Survivor now needs to either chance making it right up to the Hatch and going for it or run off and lure the Killer away with a generator; just playing the waiting game doesn't work for either side becuase now both sides are incentivized to act first if they don't want to lose the Hatch instead of second like it currently is.Rebel_Raven said:
You would think so, but why when it's easier to just get hit, and get the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade? It doesn't matter how long it takes, it's just easier.TAG said:
In that case, the Survivor is incentivized to leave and do a gen, and the Killer is incentivized to chase because they can down in one hit, but by doing so, the risk of losing the hatch is greater. It's easier for one or the other to lose the hatch battle.Rebel_Raven said:
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch.
I mean the option to leave and do gens for what ever reason exists now, but in my experience people rarely take it.
I've watched a lot of hatch standoffs on youtube, and in reality haven't given that much a damn if they get it or not.0 -
It's entirely effective to play chicken still, though. Killer hits and downs a survivor. Survivor uses hatch while killer is still wiping their blade.TAG said:
If the Survivor becomes exposed while the Hatch is open, just playing Chicken no longer is effective because the Killer making the first move now has a higher chance of succeeding. The Survivor now needs to either chance making it right up to the Hatch and going for it or run off and lure the Killer away with a generator; just playing the waiting game doesn't work for either side becuase now both sides are incentivized to act first if they don't want to lose the Hatch instead of second like it currently is.Rebel_Raven said:
You would think so, but why when it's easier to just get hit, and get the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade? It doesn't matter how long it takes, it's just easier.TAG said:
In that case, the Survivor is incentivized to leave and do a gen, and the Killer is incentivized to chase because they can down in one hit, but by doing so, the risk of losing the hatch is greater. It's easier for one or the other to lose the hatch battle.Rebel_Raven said:
That's not really a standoff if the survivor is far enough away to be lunged at, hit, and can't get the hatch by crawling.TAG said:
The exposed status allows the killer to make a dash for the nearby survivor to down them just far enough that they won't make it in.Rebel_Raven said:
A hatch standoff generally requires the killer standing on, or near the hatch and the survivor being near by as well.TAG said:
I'm only looking to deal with stand-offs.Rebel_Raven said:
At the rate people complain about hatch standoffs, i don't believe it would change much.
I think the one time I actively chased a survivor to the hatch, I just grabbed her.
Usually one finds it well before the other.
The survivor won't try for it to get grabbed.
The killer won't hit to give the window of opportunity for the survivor to jump in.
The exposed status won't really fox anything with both people being right there next to the hatch.
The lack of grab makes it so if the Survivor gets close enough, they basically get the hatch even if they are downed.
Both Survivor and Killer are incentivized to act first because acting second realistically means the other succeeds. Hence dealing with stand-off.
The hatch stand off is when survivor cannot jump in to the hatch because the killer is standing on it, and just that. The survivor doesn't clip through.
Basically the killer is blocking the hatch access. The only way a survivor can make it through is if the killer moves, or attacks. If they do neither the survivor is SOL.
That is a hatch standoff.
If usually happens withing 2 or 3 meters from the hatch.
More than enough slack for a downed survivor to get the hatch.
I mean the option to leave and do gens for what ever reason exists now, but in my experience people rarely take it.
I've watched a lot of hatch standoffs on youtube, and in reality haven't given that much a damn if they get it or not.
I do not see any real higher chance of success.
Do you feel like the time it takes for all that to happen is any better with exposed?0 -
Yes, I do. If both Killer and Survivor reach the hatch, Survivor has every reason to make a run for the hatch instead of just wait, and Killer has every reason to hit them before they get too close instead of just wait.Rebel_Raven said:
It's entirely effective to play chicken still, though. Killer hits and downs a survivor. Survivor uses hatch while killer is still wiping their blade.I do not see any real higher chance of success.
Do you feel like the time it takes for all that to happen is any better with exposed?0 -
The killer would have to hit them far enough away that the survivor can't flop and use the hatch anyhow.TAG said:
Yes, I do. If both Killer and Survivor reach the hatch, Survivor has every reason to make a run for the hatch instead of just wait, and Killer has every reason to hit them before they get too close instead of just wait.Rebel_Raven said:
It's entirely effective to play chicken still, though. Killer hits and downs a survivor. Survivor uses hatch while killer is still wiping their blade.I do not see any real higher chance of success.
Do you feel like the time it takes for all that to happen is any better with exposed?
That's assuming the survivor doesn't juke, or dead hard. Nothing really changes on the killer end.
Survivor can still get close, and wait to get hit so they can clip through the killer, and use the hatch.
There usually is no grand chase involved. Killer goes right for the hatch, and waits. They often don't gamble on finding the survivor first because they know the survivor doesn't want to do gens at that point, so they go where they know the survivor wants to go.
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It's specifically when both sides want the Hatch but neither are willing to make a move. Survivor does not want to try jumping in because the Killer can grab them, and Killer does not want to attack the Survivor because the Survivor can jump in during the wiping animation. By acting first, both players risk losing the Hatch, so they wait for the other person to act first so they can attempt to capitalize on it.Rebel_Raven said:
Oh, do explain!DwightsLifeMatters said:
I advice you too look up what a real hatch standoff is lolRebel_Raven said:
It wouldn't really fix the hatch stand off. Survivors can crawl through the hatch while the killer is wiping their blade.TAG said:Until the end game is properly fixed, I'm gonna vouch for giving the Survivor Exposed while the hatch is open while also taking away the Killer's ability to grab someone out of the hatch as a band-aid fix to deal with stand-off.
Pretty sure it's when the killer is camping the hatch and the survivor wants in.1
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