Summoning phase rework idea to prevent camping

Maybe increase the camping regression to 50% or even 75%. But also nerf the killer away speed to 125%.

This would make it a bit more balanced imo

How about we just teach Survivors to check if the Killer is around before unhooking?

or

Teach Survivors to do gens when someone is Camping to make it a bad choice for the Killer. Aka Teach to Punish Camping.

BHVR could add such advice to the loading screen! That would be really good.

This should just be a Monstrous Shrine rework.

So what you're saying is loop the killer near hook so two other people have extra time to push gen progress before someone absolute has to make the save? Yeah that's a hard pass.

This is the consistent issue with these ideas around dealing with camping. Any system you design to fight camping with a mechanical debuff can and will be abused by a plurality of players in a way that is at worst punishes the person on hook and at best just means survivors don't really get a tangible benefit. Also this wouldn't prevent hard camping as those players do not care how long it takes you to die on hook as long as you die. Someone who camps as their only strategy isn't concerned with bloodpoints, MMR, and most certainly not a hooked survivor's enjoyment.

Your suggestion also places the hooked survivor at an extreme disadvantage should the killer just play normally and not camp. Which means you're actively penalizing the hooked survivor for no real reason.

Wait … what :I ?

Yes … let’s nerf loop …. I have another idea …. Remove generator and survivor movement …. And make noed an basekit ….

dude … you cannot nerf the loop …. It’s an gameplan element …

Lmao, disrespect? What? How can you be personally offended by someone unhooking a person while you're still nearby? And why would you not punish the person who "offended" you by unhooking, rather than tunneling the person on the hook who had no say in it?

It all sounds like a terrible excuse to just tunnel and camp/proxy camp. This is just your twisted justification, rather than admitting that you can't get wins without it, you blame others for your ineptitude, lol. Sucks to suck I guess.

And on-topic; I do mostly agree with what OP said, the numbers might need adjustments, but camping (and tunneling for that matter) really shouldn't be the most efficient way for a killer to win. I understand that it's sort of required at the top-end of gameplay, especially if you're against a 4 man swf. I don't however think that's a good justification for not implementing something like this, if anything a broader rebalancing allowing for killers and 4 man swf's at the top of gameplay to be more even without needing to tunnel and/or camp is a much better solution for that issue. Basically, I wish that the game was balanced as such that the most efficient way for a killer to play, is similar to when a killer is running Devour Hope. They hook, then run straight for the next kill. Maybe something like giving killers a movespeed increase for X amount of time after hooking a survivor, combined with a heavy slowdown on the hook timer if the killer stays nearby without being in a chase, thereby making it much better if they try to find a survivor and get into a new chase as quickly as possible, rather than camping which pretty much guarantees that the other 3 survivors will be able to gen rush all gens if the killer camps and waits for the person on the hook to die.

I don't think that the hook timer should move faster if the killer runs away from the hook, that's going to have a minimal impact vs swf's, but could have a huge negative effect on solo-q, which are already heavily disadvantaged, where many more will start dying on hook or get to 2nd stage the first time they're hooked, because their teammates are more focused on hiding from the killer, cleansing totems, opening chests or doing gens instead of actually unhooking people. The best solution is giving killers who doesn't camp a buff, while punishing killers who does camp, without those changes hitting solo-q players much harder than swf's.

Yeah, I never camp or tunnel either, unless a survivor is just being very toxic. If they keep teabagging me and clicking their flashlights every chance they get, I'll make sure that person dies and then I'll let the other 3 escape. While I enjoy winning, I get greater pleasure from ensuring that toxic players aren't having a fun match, while I can just have fun and meme with the non-toxic players before I let them escape.

If I run into games where I can't win without tunneling and/or camping, I honestly don't mind taking the loss. I've been matched against a team that's clearly better than me, I'll do my best to get whatever kills I can, but I won't punish a random player by camping/tunneling them, just because I'm not good enough to win the match without that. I don't enjoy doing it, the survivor getting camped/tunneled doesn't enjoy it, I don't learn how to get better by just face camping instead of playing the game, so it's just negative in every way imo. On top of that, if I tunnel and camp my way from what would've been a 0-1 kill game into a 3-4 kills game, I gain MMR, and will face harder teams, that I will struggle even more against, forcing me to tunnel and camp harder to stand a chance of getting 3-4 kills, until I start facing teams that no matter what I do, I have no chance of getting a single kill, which is just frustrating. I'd rather take the loss when I face survivors that are simply better than me, and then I lose some MMR and face a team that's more evenly matched, and I can learn how to be a better killer over time.

I don't understand the killers who are so focused on always getting the most kills the can, no matter what. Camping/tunneling will get you more kills on low/mid ranks, which will raise your MMR, which will eventually match you against survivors that will steamroll you, you'll get frustrated and claim they're toxic, they're cheating, survivors needs to be nerfed etc, rather than admitting that the only thing you're good at is tunneling for easy kills, and face camping. Methods that works well on lower MMR, but will lose you every game at higher MMR if that's the only thing you're good at. I guess getting 3-4 kills makes people think that they're supperior to the players that they were up against, while they refuse to acknowledge that tunneling is clearly very unbalanced and gives killers a massive advantage, especially if they do it right from the start of the game. Any time they do lose, they blame others for it, like if the killer face camps one person to death on first hook while the rest of the survivors do the gens and escape, I've seen a bunch of killers say stuff like "why didn't you save your friend" and "you suck because you didn't help your teammate, you're bad, so I won" etc.. It's dumb. If they win by abusing poor balancing, they think they're great. If they lose, they somehow think that they only lost because the survivors were bad, which of course makes no sense.. No matter what, in their mind, they're great killers and no one can convince them otherwise, lol.

Okay, first of all, you didn't defend against anything that I said against you. You seem to be a very defensive person, yet all you basically did was tell me to shut up. That tells me that you actually agree with some of the stuff that I said about you, no?

Secondly, there's no reason to use expletives, we could have a more sensible conversation without using curse words and caps lock. Not that I'm bothered by it, or easily offended, it just serves no function. You just come off as being very upset and defensive, and if that's your mindset, we're not likely to be able to agree on anything. Instead, you're likely to just disagree with me out of spite, rather than disagreeing based on any sensible reasoning.

Third, I'm not complaning at all. I start by asking you a question, then another question, and then I give you my honest view of your post. Yes, some of the assumptions that I made about you are negative, that however does not mean it's a complaint. I'm stating facts as I see them. You didn't reply to any of my questions though.

Now, to adress the post of yours that I quoted directly. Yes, you can play the game however you want, I never said or impled that you can't. You say that you don't care what me or others say, yet you are very clearly upset, so that's a lie. You do care. The "If I camp, I tunnel or not I'm called tunneler anyway", honestly, our experiences are not at all the same there. I also play on EU servers, and while I quite often get people thanking me for not tunneling, or saying things like "I'm surprised you didn't tunnel", it's incredibly rare that someone accuses me of tunneling. Honestly, the vast majority of the times that anyone does, it's because I actually did tunnel, and I then explain to them that I tunneled one person because they were being very toxic and annoying, or because that person was very clearly using cheats, and at that point most people accept my reasoning for why I did it and they're fine with it. The fact that I do let the non-toxic/cheating survivors escape might help there. The number of times that I have been accused of tunneling when I wasn't, is very rare. Yes, I recently had someone accuse me of tunneling in a game where I got 0 hooks, I have no idea how they could possibly even remotely think I tunneled in that game. There'll always be trolls and morons falsely accusing you of things you didn't do, but that's not a valid excuse for doing it anyway. If someone falsely accuses you of theft, does that make it okay for you to steal things? I don't see how anything I said makes me a hypocrite, so you're more than welcome to explain that. You tell me to grow up, yet you are the one who can't behave in a civilized manner. Then you tell me to "stop complaining on forums and do something useful". I have given my view on how BHVR could nerf camping in a more fair and balanced way, where's your useful input in this thread? And how are you not complaining in your posts here? Who's being a hypocrite here really?

In your previous post that I quoted, you say that you don't camp because it's boring, yet you say that you do camp with bubba because it's fun? If we're being honest here, it does seem like you actually camp/proxy camp quite a bit, you're just not willing to fully admitt to it. I could be wrong of course, if so, I'm sorry, but it seems unlikely. You then come of as being very entitled, basically saying that if the survivors "doesn't respect you" and unhooks someone while you are nearby, it is their fault that you punish the person that's being unhooked, that has no control over the situation, by tunneling them? Why do you pass the blame for your choices, your behaviour, not only to the survivors, but to the one survivor that has no say in when they get unhooked? Why are you annoyed that survivors "unhook too fast"? What's too fast? Everyone needs to get to second hook stage before they're unhooked? Everyone needs to be 1 second away from hitting 3rd hook stage before they're unhooked? You have to be on the other side of the map before they unhook, or you punish the person being unhooked for it? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all. If you want to "punish" someone, why not actually punish the person responsible, the one who unhooked when you were still very close? That's a logical argument, and it isn't tunneling, and very much a common and non-toxic thing to do. I call bs here, you tunnel because it's more efficient, it helps you win more games. You call others toxic for unhooking too fast, and then say it's not toxic when you tunnel, because it's their fault? Can you not see how illogical your argument is?

I will agree that yes, most of the time it's dumb for survivors to insta-unhook when the killer is still very close by. That's not a "free pass" to tunnel, and in no way can you blame the survivors for the fact that you're tunneling. They're making it easier for you to tunnel, and you take advantage of that, and then clear your conscious by making up some contrived illogical reason where you pass the blame for your actions onto someone else. Please, have some self-perception. You say that you didn't use to tunnel, because it was toxic. What changed? My guess is that your MMR went up, you faced teams that you struggled against, you couldn't win without tunneling, and then you came up with a poor excuse to pass the blame for you tunneling onto others, and now you feel like you can tunnel as much as you want, and it's not toxic at all.

Why do you care so much about winning? Sure, it's fun, and you get a bit more bp for it, absolutely. I have already stated that I do tunnel as well, if I am facing particulary toxic survivors, but then I try to have fun and meme with the non-toxic players, before I let them escape. With or without tunneling/camping, would you agree that the most fun games are the ones where it's a fairly even match? The kind of games where a small mistake on your part can lead to you getting 0-1 kills, or a small mistake on the survivors part can lead to 3-4 kills? The games were I get 4 kills in 4 minutes are honestly no fun, and the games where I struggle to even get a hook or two are no fun. With tunneling and camping, you can increase your MMR to the point where the survivors are simply much better than you, and you don't stand a chance of winning if you don't tunnel and camp.

Personally, I would rather have a MMR where I get matched against survivors that I have a fair chance of winning against, without resorting to tunneling and camping, instead of facing survivors where I have to tunnel and camp to stand a chance of winning. I also learn more from playing challenging matches against survivors where I simply have to learn how to better predict where they'll go, I have to outsmart them when they're looping me to down them as fast as possible, I have to figure out when it's worth dropping a chase to go after someone else or protect a gen or a hex totem. If you tunnel and camp, all you learn is how to tunnel someone, counting how long until their BT or DS is gone, how to stand still right next to the survivor on the hook, or how to run in a 20-meter radius and proxy-camp. You won't improve in any meaningful way, and you'll never be a good or even okayish killer that way. Why are you more focused on increasing your MMR, instead of focusing on becoming a better killer?

Trust me, you will never learn how to deal with a half-decent swf if you camp and tunnel every game, and you're not likely to get many, if any, kills against teams like that that way either. The only thing that'll happen is that you'll get frustrated, complain that survivors needs to be nerfed, or accuse them of cheating. Stop tunneling, stop camping, accept that you're going to lose matches for a while until your MMR settles on an accurate level for your ability as a killer, and try to learn how to be better. Watch some tips and tricks videos on youtube, maybe watch some killer main streamers to see how they play, try to actively predict where survivors will run, what gens they'll do, look up good builds for specific killers, and actually try to improve. You've taken a short-cut to higher MMR by camping and tunneling, but you haven't learned how to be a better killer on the way there, and now it's frustrating trying to win games, because camping and tunneling isn't as efficient any more.

Also, your last two posts almost look like they were written by someone else. You're much calmer and sensible, and you come off much better in those posts. I fully agree with you in those two posts, I wish your reply to me would've been written more that way. I know that I passed judgement on you in my previous post, and in this one as well. It's not meant to bully you, make fun of you or belittle you, eventhough I realize that it might be interpreted that way. My intention was to highlight the fact that you were passing the blame of your actions onto someone else, while punishing an innocent person, and I wanted to call you out on that bs.

You say that you can't change other people, and while it is true that some people are just way to stubborn to change, or to admit that they were wrong, change is always possible. I've had post-game chats where I played as a survivor, and the killer at first was being very hostile, saying similar things as you did in your post that I quoted here, "stfu, I can play however I want" etc, where in the short time you can chat before you're disconnected, they agreed that yeah, they shouldn't tunnel, they said sorry, and we ended the convo in a friendly manner wishing eachother gl in the next game. I do think that we can have a non-hostile conversation with eachother, I do believe that you can agree that tunneling and camping is toxic, and that you can agree that you shouldn't do it. Camp and tunnel toxic teabagging, flashlight-clicking survivors all you want, if they wanna be toxic, you're justified in being toxic towards them in return. It's not a free licence to punish non-toxic survivor for it, even if you believe that they may be a swf however.

And to bring it back to being more ontopic to the thread again, as you haven't really had any input on the actual first post in the thread other than "If camping will be nerfed they have to nerf loops as well.", what is your opinion on it? Should camping be nerfed? If so, do you agree with what any of us have suggested so far, do you have other suggestions? Why does loops need to be nerfed even more than they are, with the recent trend of only releasing anti-loop killers? That just pushes the game to the point where all a survivors can do is hold W, and there's very little a survivor can do to become better or more skillfull at the game. They can either hide and not be found, or hold W when found. The most skillfull thing a survivor can do currently, against killers where it's possible, is to loop them to take up as much of the killers time as they can before they're hooked, thereby increasing the chance of some or all survivors escaping. I suggested that maybe killers should get a short speed-burst after hooking a survivor, that would buff killers that doesn't camp, to incentivize them not to camp, and make it more efficient to leave the hook and go for someone else, whilst OPs original post deals with how to punish killers that are camping, by severely increasing the time for survivors on a hook to progress through hook stages. Personally, I feel like the combo of those suggestions would have a large impact, both in terms of drasticly lowering the amount of campers, but also buffing killers in general, without buffing the strongest killer, Nurse, in any meaningful way, thereby bringing all killers slightly closer in power to Nurse, which is a good thing. The power-gap between Nurse and all other killers is much too big. That still does not deal with tunneling, which is the bigger issue, as if you tunnel someone out of the game very early, or they dc the first time they're downed, it's a massive advantage for the killer, and the game is honestly not balanced at all for the game being a 3v1 two minutes into the game.