Was the nerf to deathslinger really needed?
Honestly playing deathslinger now feels like his arms are tired from holding the gun, it's so uncomfortable to ADS now... I get that quickscope was annoying a lot of the times, but was this really the way to go?
So, if pre-nerf deathslinger, with quickscope and almost no terror radius (if m&a was being used) STILL didn't made it above B in most tier lists, did BHVR really think people would like to play as him? It feels like he's just a clown to entertain group of survivors on a friday night instead of actually killing them, but that's true for most of the killer roaster
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nes.
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Yes.
It was needed, but it was mishandled. Quickscope and ADS fake were undeniably problems, and now there is a new problem, which is that he feels very clunky.
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Can't believe people are even saying yes. Deathslinger was easy to play against before the nerf. Completely unnecessary.
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No
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I don't even agree that he needed a nerf. Guy had a deadly 1v1 but a horrible 1v4. That's still a balanced design even if people didn't like that they couldn't loop him without throwing pallets early.
And when it came to the nerf, they decided to pile in a bunch of downgrades at once, addressing every single thing that comprised his identity. No quickscope despite his number of shots being more limited than any other ranged killer (and having a very thin hitbox), no relative stealth despite him having the most limited range. They turned him into a straight downgrade to other ranged killers. He's in desperate need of a buff in his current state.
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How many Deathslingers do you see around these days? He's just not fun to play rn.
He was a pathetic killer and worse than Huntress on every aspect, but now he's even worse than before. They should just remove his gun at this point.
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Personally I feel like all it was needed was a slight ADS tweak like they did with Wraith, small but noticeable. Even a very little number change would've made so survivors could loop a few more times in a tile, which is more than enough.
Instead they got rid of everything that made Deathslinger a good ranged killer, making it no reason to play him over huntress
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There was already no reason to play him over Huntress, she was always stronger and they always played completely differently.
That aside, basically yeah. I think the ADS fake change was perfectly fine, and the inability to quickscope is also totally fine, but his ADS time is now too slow. A middle ground where he can still reasonably react but the survivors have time as they see his arm raise to dodge is more than achieveable, and I think a lullaby radius would've been a better change than to just increase his terror radius.
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He's dumpster-tier now and off my list of viable Killers. His ADS is just so slow you can't even get hits with the speargun on smaller loops and on big, odd-shaped ones you simply are not catching a survivor until you loop a few dozen times and bloodlust a pallet down. No reason to play him.
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Yes he need a nerf only because the survivor did not like facing him that the only reason the dev need for a nerf
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“Problems” when the killer had a pretty low kill rate and no map control. Sounds like survivor entitlement to me
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He's been deleted from the game - I've played exactly 2 Deathslingers since his nerf, one of which dc'ed.
I used to play him a bit, but now I reroll his daily 100% of the time.
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Problems are problems whether the killer/perk/item/whatever is OP or not. It's worth fixing- and in the process of fixing it, BHVR messed up and caused new problems.
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At no point has anything on DS been a “problem.” Holding W was and is incredibly effective against him, as is breaking line of sight and wiggling. The real issue is that survivors were mad that they didn’t get to control the chase like they do against most killers.
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ADS fake and quickscope were considered problems, and I think that's fair. You couldn't react to a Deathslinger quickscoping, so the realistic counterplay was to just juke and hope that he missed- and if he chose not to shoot, your juking lost you distance, so now he could ADS fake and hit you. Was it OP? Eh. Was it cheap and unpleasant? Absolutely, it was worth fixing. The fact that it was done poorly shouldn't distract from that.
If the weakest killer in the game had a problematic aspect to them, that would warrant fixing just as much as an OP killer. This isn't even a hypothetical- Clown's instadown iri addon is cheap and unpleasant, I'd support that being changed so long as it's done well and, ideally, comes with a suite of buffs or a full rework.
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no it was not.
he was one of the most balanced Killers in the whole game, there was absolutely no need to give him such a significant nerf.
on top of that, he used to have a very uique feeling about him - that "stealth" ability of his was what made him feel so unique and interesting both to play as and against (yes, i did not mind facing Caleb). and the quickscope was what made him feel strong, while giving his power more scenarios it could work in in comparison to Huntress, who had to charge her shots up, allowing her to be the strong snowballing VS outpositioned Survivors Killer and him to be the strong 1v1 centered chase based Killer.
The Devs just went and took everything unique our Cowboy had and removed it. They really did it and turned him into a worse Huntress for good - because Huntress is considered "fun" by Survivors, so every ranged Killer should work exactly like her! they sucked the whole unique and fun feeling the Killer used to have right out of him.
but dont worry guys!
we can move slightly faster while scoped in now! :D
cause thats exactly what you want to be doing with him all the time.... ;-; (yes, i'm upset)
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No he was fine before.
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Not, it wasn't.
However, do not forget that BHVR also nerfed Billy, nerfed Freddy within a week of his release, nerfed Twins, almost nerfed Demo's best add-on, and this list goes on.
Unnecessary changes are their specialty.
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And why should you be able to react to the gun? Counterplay is not having a safe option every time, which seems be what survivors think it means. Survivors should have to guess, not be able to shut down the killer.
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Just because some people said he was balanced cause of his strong 1v1 and he was only nerfed cause of survivors whining are completely wrong. Slinger had bad game design as survivor slinger was completely unpredictable in chase he was a zoning machine not only with quick scope but his ability to fake with no consequences was annoying as #########. The change was absolutely needed but the problem is they didn’t give him any buffs to compensate. Just because he’s strong in 1v1 doesn’t excuse bad game design. Atleast pyramid head, huntress and Artist give warnings and indications there power was being used and survivors could think with slinger he had no indications or reaction time
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Because the gun is a killer ability in the game Dead By Daylight, and thus shouldn't be a guaranteed loss. You're right that it doesn't even make him overpowered, but it's not exactly a healthy power if you're just guaranteed to be screwed unless you're lucky enough to have something tall enough to duck behind so you can break LoS.
You say they should have to guess, but how? If he quickscopes you don't have time to dodge, and if he doesn't he'll keep faking to make you juke to lose distance. There's no correct guess to make, that's the entire argument against old Slinger.
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No it wasn’t. No one asked for it, and no one complained about him. Deathslinger was actually one of the most balanced killers. Some dev must’ve played the game for the first time in a long time and got his ass handed to him by a good Deathslinger, so he went and nerfed his ass.
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You dodge in anticipation of the shot. If you are about to round a corner, he is obviously going to raise the rifle. That mindgame is completely dead now
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You dodge in anticipation of the shot, thus losing distance if he chooses not to shoot, thus opening yourself up to an ADS fake hit. That was the entire problem being discussed long before the nerf actually hit.
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Of course not. He was already one of the worst performing killers.
One could arguably say he was one of the most balanced killers in the game. Insane 1v1 with a terrible 1v4. Compare that to killers like Blight and Nurse who have insane 1v1 and insane 1v4 as well. However, he's ruined now.
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Might have needed a nerf, but it was done badly now he just feels so bad and clunky to play now. If anything a few needs that I thought IMO would've been better.
- has a lullaby similar that the Trickster has so he can't cheese M&A for those invisible shots.
- can't walk backwards anymore after a spear so there's counter play between the two.
- a tad longer cool down dropping the ADS not firing the gun to do a basic M1. Similar to the small nerf Pyramid head got so can't constantly just fake ADS.
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Oh also forgot. Since the nerf I've only seen other DS killers maybe twice. They couldn't even land a shot majority of the time most of their hits were just basic M1 hits.
Don't get me started on haddonfeild or in door maps either. When I played DS I knew he was already bad on those maps now you'll never land a shot since the moment you ADS to fire they're already ran around the corner.
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It was overkill
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I played a lot of FPS in my day. Hell I think the first game I remember playing was Goldeneye on 64 up into my early 20's staying up half the night playing COD 4 MW (only one kid at the time.....Ohhh the freedom). Point being Slinger came naturally to me and quick scope was his best weapon. Last night I played him for first time since nerf and he feels...Everyone always says clunky so I will say rusted asf. Like the tin man in Wizard of Oz...Ah maybe I should run Tin oil can on him....
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And this could be completely corrected by putting a cooldown on lowering his rifle, or preventing him from raising it again/M1ing, instead they gutted him and made him shoulder his rifle slower than literally anyone who's ever used a rifle for more than 2 hours.
So the answer is no, he did not need a nerf. And to add my experience to the others above me, I've stopped playing him completely, and I've seen 2 Deathslingers since the nerf as a survivor, and he got ruthlessly stomped.
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Yea, he needed it IMO
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...You just explained a more reasonable nerf to give him, and then concluded by saying "no he did not need a nerf".
So, like, which is it? Which of those two statements is your actual argument here?
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No hypocrisy here. I suggested an alternate change, but if they're going to make his 1v1 less oppressive they would absolutely have to balance his 1 v 4 more adequately. People have said this before, it is not a new thought.
He did not need a nerf.
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He did not need a nerf. He was a killer that could cut down chases by being good at the killer. He was never overperforming by any of the stats bhvr has given us and he was a killer with a clear strength and weakness.
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Yeah, there's no denying that the change was handled badly, just as there's no denying that there was clearly something about him that sparked a change to begin with.
The changes they made were (mostly) necessary, just done poorly and with not enough compensation in other areas.
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I agree i used to play a lot of deathslinger and it used to be even if I went up against a good swf I still felt like I had a chance of winning now I don't feel like that at all :(
Makes me really sad cause ik they won't revert or make better changes to him cause Billy and Freddy have been left gutted for years
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yes, it was needed the nerf but not the way was done
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key word "chooses." If he chooses wrong. the survivor gets away. Sounds fine to me.
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Agreed - nerf his gun, sure, but nerf his gun AND increase his terror radius? Definitely overkill. He went from an A-tier killer (if you had accurate aim) to a C-tier killer, even if your aim is godly.
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So the survivor counterplay to Deathslinger is to hope that he makes the wrong choice? That doesn't sound like a particularly interactive and healthy game mechanic to me, friend.
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Completely necessary. He is fine now.
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No, it wasn't needed at all.
All he needed was a sound cue of when he aims, the same thing huntress has when she lifts her hatchet up.
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No
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You’re implying that only he makes a choice. Survivors can trick him into shooting.
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How?
I do actually want to know, so I'll hold off on saying anything else just yet.
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Deathslinger's ability to quickscope was very stupid, but I'd like to see him buffed somewhere else, honestly.
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I never played slinger much maybe a few games. But I want justice for him and all his mains.
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You bait the shot by swerving in one direction, then back the other way, and then back again. If he is aiming his gun, he isn’t making up much ground since he moves slower than normal while aiming. Obviously if he is close, you are getting hit, but that’s the case for every killer. A quick swerve would have made the insta shot miss pre nerf.
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But that's exactly what we've been talking about- if you're doing that, then you're not gaining as much distance, which means he's gaining on you. All it takes is for him not to be holding his ADS for the entire chase, which even bad Slingers don't tend to do, and you're in a lose/lose scenario where you're either easy to shoot or you're losing a ton of distance by running erratically.
He's going to shoot eventually, you don't know when, and he loses nothing by making you swerve to avoid a shot that you have no way of predicting or reacting to even if you could manage to guess right. I'm not the first person to say this, it was the hot button topic about Slinger's design for a while.
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No.
But remind me why we gave him a huge terror radius.... pretty sure this killer barely had a 2k average and they nerfed every aspect of his design.
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