Revert Wraith's lunge the devs over-nerfed it

I agree. All Seeing nerf was ok, although don't get me wrong, going from 12m -> 8m is harsh, I think 10m would have been fine, but there's an irrational love for numbers to be multiples/increments of 4 balance be damned, so screw it. They wanted to nerf the addon, there's no way it can ever overperform now.

Most importantly however, the basekit nerf was completely unnecessary.

It's a very small change to his numbers, that has a drastic affect on the range you can get hits with him in game. He has to now be completely up the ass of whoever he's chasing when he uncloaks, to get the hit. At this distance, lunges are practically unnecessary.

You'll never see any long lunges anymore since you have to uncloak when touching them, and you need that entire 1 second of speed or more to make up the distance they gain on you while uncloaking, so you can get to the point where your normal lunge can actually hit.

If you try to lunge during that 1 second of post-uncloak-speed to get the longer lunge, the effective distance is the same, or worse.

This was already Wraith's weakest point vs skilled survivors, but now? Now this means using his cloak in chase is distinctly no longer a viable tactic.

Basekit uncloaking already took forever. It still takes forever. The ability to hit those Michael Jordan at the end of Space Jam lunges out of cloak, was the only thing he had going for him in any chase. This change restricts his available playstyles/builds and makes Wraith much less consistent, interesting or enjoyable to play.

I'd take old Wraith over this weak piece of crap any day.

It took the devs, what, 4 updates to change 3 things:

- True Invisibility so he can't be spotted from long distances trying to be sneaky.

- Swapped his huge Surprise Attack lunge for fast Cloaked movement speed.

- Add-on adjustments.

I would happily take the lunge over movement speed any day. No idea why they caved to people saying "he has no pressure" well guess what ladies, I was right, now he has no pressure where it actually counts. The guy has zero chase potential at his disposal, and even his ability to get close and grant free injuries is crapper, if survivors hear you coming or see you coming, the nerfed lunge makes it so you don't even get that hit XD Wraith is actually god awful now. Down there with Freddy and Legion. Potentially back to being considered the comparative worst killer again.

Honestly yeah, the old lunge was essentially his entire power. That was what let his power get hits. Now he has nothing except minor map mobility.

This seems to have just been survivor mains crying about the lunge hits catching them off-guard bc it requires that you pay attention and play around it. But their seething has paid off.

It's bad enough that his snarling constantly announce his presence, and that his uncloaking/cloaking whoosh noise make his silent bell addon nearly worthless, and that the uncloak speed even with addons is insanely long.

Wraith wasn't OP before, but now I'm distinctly not scared of him at all. if he cloaks, I know he can't hit me unless I mess up or get caught out super far away from anything.

A little bit unrelated to your statement but I really wish they made all seeing tiers. So like...

Yellow all seeing addon - 6m

Green all seeing addon - 8m

Purple all seeing addon - 10m

So if we want to stack purple and green it becomes 18m and that stops you from using another add on.

I agree with the all seeing nerf but the lunge nerf was unnecessary.

At first when he got nerfed I didn't notice much difference but the more I played him the more I realized it was actually quite a big deal.

When I play against wraith as survivor now I don't see nearly as much of him trying to uncloak around loops anymore since you simply can't/the lunge doesn't go far enough for that to work in some places it used to.

You don't need to "get people to prestige". In fact, given that the "bonus drop rates" for higher tier addons is so small that it can't even be measured to show a tangible effect across hundreds of bloodwebs averaged out, it's actually in your best interest not to prestige at all. If they wanna incentivize it, they could do so easily.

There's no sense in refusing to consider changing a poorly designed system just bc it renders the systems built upon it redundant. Especially if those systems sole purpose for existing is to attempt to mitigate the original one's flaws.

Your example is easy.

Say 10m is a balanced yet strong version of the effect you've designed. In the tierless system, you make the addon 8m. and let the "echoed" effect of not using any other addons, be 12m. A very strong version of that effect, but a gamble, since you forego any others.

There doesn't need to be any more nuance than that, and honestly? In practice, there isn't. No one uses the brown or yellow addons unless they've run out of Purples/Greens, or if they're like Demo and their only good addons are yellow/brown, and all the rest suck.

I outlined the basics of this "echoed" idea in the post you were responding to.

Imo they should do something else/different/better for incentivizing prestige systems. Just like they should actually do something for the devotion levels.

I'll probably write up a suggestion for the tierless addons/echoed addon system at some point. Glad you liked it tho. :D

Exactly, majority calling for buffs has just made him weaker in the grand-scheme.

Now he is only good with certain builds. Imagine being so weak you can't even get confirmed hits at LT-tiles XD he is only intimidating when you get caught out of position or caught peeling away to a new tile, but even then, you can just body block him and stop him overtaking you lol you have to chase tiles uncloaked which means yoy have no power, otherwise it makes windows infinites. And pallets should never get dropped while cloaked because he cannot hit you nor catch up with his lunge on most pallet tiles XD least fun killer to play as in the game now.

I think it's really silly that disconnecting counts as a kill for the sake of kill rates.

Also I could understand people DCing against a mother-daughter ring + purple duration addon spirit or old iri head huntress, but pinhead? pffft the worst he has is Fang + Aura addon or Double solve time + hoarder, neither of which are problematic. When you and your teammates have half a brain...