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Killer reality check
I was watching ohtofu last night and he brought up the current state of killers. Tdlr he essentially was saying that killers are being babies because mmr is doing it’s job. I mean sure we’re not 4king every game but a lot of us are still 4K at least 50+ percentages of our games. The mmr is working as intended and putting us against skilled survivors, the way it should be. Kinda was a wake up call to me personally and gave me more perspective on the games I lose. Instead of thinking the game is inbalanced (which I still think it is to a certain degree) I took tofus advice and now am thinking more or less what I did wrong during my matches instead of thinking this game is just 1 sided.
Just my last piece of advice I’d like to leave all my killers out there is unless your getting paid to play this game (content creators) why do you care if you lose? Sure it’s annoying to get teabagged / Bm’d but it’s not worth working up a stress over this game.
Edit: The point of this post is not to persuade you into thinking that killer is easy to play or that the game is fair. Just thought I'd share with maybe some ideas to make this game more tolerable for some.
Comments
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It's hard not to be stressed when the game is literally designed to make you stressed.
I also think Tofu is wrong, but that's not new.
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He also said yesterday that mmr is bringing competitiveness to a non competitive game, which if bhvr really wants to go that path then they should make a ranked mode.
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MMR has not changed anything for the better.
In the SBMM test, my opponents were tough and I worked hard for a 2k
As it is now, matches are either 0k or 4k it feels.
The algorithm is lazy and it blows, there is literally ZERO improvement over Rank matchmaking...and that system sucked too which is why I was so happy when I participated in the SBMM Testing.
I might be crazy but the SBMM we have now is just some garbage pulled out of a dumpster. Something changed dramatically in between the test and the launch of SBMM.
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Except at a higher level(not just the highest) the game mechanics heavily favor the survivors and you can't really compare your average player to someone who plays the game as a job and has a huge amount of game knowledge and experience compared to the average player.
Thats like say well x pro player does this all the time in fortnite or whatever game so the average player should be able to do it like them as well.
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Tofu having a contrarian opinion isn't new.
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i mean go ahead pick Myers Ghostface and play 10 matches of them, Maybe try Clown or Legion and then come back to me on this topic.
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Hes been playing a lot of killer recenty.
!00% agree with you on that, 1 mode to try hard and another to "meme" around.
I mean sure the algorithm needs tweaking but what also doesn't help is that the meta is favoring survivors imo at the moment. With less killers playing of course the ones that are still playing, were going to have a wider range of skill rather than what our actual mmr is. Thus why you get games you can 4k and the next one you literally have a 4 man escape.
Thats why I brought up inbalances my post, which was the essentially getting at what you stated.
No thanks, I already know how it feels to play those dog water killers.
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I think Tofu is missing the main complaint. Obviously there are killers who just want easy 4Ks just like there are survivor who want easy 4E.
But the way the game state is, you have to sweat if you want a chance to kill a single good survivor. You are going to lose 2-3 gens on your first chase unless you bring certain perks to block gens at the start. You need to kill someone quickly thus forcing you to either tunnel or camp. The fun part of playing killer is going away and that's the issue.
DBD being "balanced" means nothing if people aren't enjoying the game. A ranked mode isn't going to change anything and idk why people think it's a magic solution. People will tryhard in casual queue regardless of the existence of a ranked mode.
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I think you should also mention that the only killers he has been playing is blight with double speed addons or 1 speed addon and c21.
You see I love Tofu because I can relate, I watch him daily but I hard disagree with him saying that killers only want an ez w instead of improving, we argued over an hour yesterday, you probably saw him and me talking to each other for about 30 minutes about mmr, he gave OW examples and I gave Apex examples.
What he basically said is play meta if you want to fight meta, I have no idea who doomfist is but I guess OW but he basically said the same thing that I said in apex.
This is no longer about personal skill imo this is about map rng, I can run ruin undying corrupt tinkerer every single match and will get different results, even if I'm a top player (which I'm not) map rng + people thinking they are high comp players are ruining the fun for the killer.
He also had a poll which I disliked because not only viewers will carter to what he is saying (on the mmr topic) viewers will side with him, example when slinger got nerfed and he played him Tofu said that slinger is still really strong that not that much changed, then chat started saying how it was true and true, but how come you don't see slingers anymore? I've seen 1 slinger since his nerf.
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What do you want from a MMR?
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Probably for it to actually be skill based which it isn't, since it doesn't reward skill, just escapes/kills regardless of how you got it. A face camping Bubba is equal to a God nurse if they both 4k, according to MMR. The Claudette who hides in a locker the entire game while everyone does the work then escapes is equal to a loop god who manages to escape. Skill isn't taken into account.
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The thing is you can sweat hard play way better than your opponent and get a 2k in that situation it should of been a 4k because the other team was out played. Now if your sweating hard but your opponent is doing just as good as you and you end up with a 2k or less thats understandable and how mmr should work.
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Yea behavior has a lot to do as far as balancing with other killers, I do agree though you have to fight meta with meta. I have only been playing huntress, nurse, and blight lately just so I can have "fun games". I don't really speak up in his chat because I feel overwhelmed with the criticism sometimes.
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He's a streamer. That doesn't mean his word is gold. I don't think all the complaints of killers here are unwarranted. The game is still heavily survivor sided higher up in the ranks. When you're playing against a 4 person team and 3 of them have the same perks then it becomes a fruitless gesture to even try. You're going to be dealing with Dead Hard, Borrowed Time, and Decisive Strike all game from multiple survivors. That's just the perks. Can't forget about BNP and Ranger med kits with purple add-ons. Playing both sides will give you alot of insight on the true state of the game. The perk situation needs to be limited.
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Ohtofu is factually correct, but people stop having fun when every game turns into sweaty mess. Most people don't play at that level of competitiveness in dbd and the MMR system in dbd is factually trash. The devs admitted on their last Q&A stream that the its implementation isn't really counting anything other than kills and escapes and that the cap on MMR is only 1900 which is dismally low for an mmr system. Usually you see MMR scales in 10,000 point or more increments, which allows enough breathing room between skill levels that players plateau with opposing players who are properly close in skill. Other games with MMR systems also track more than one metric because skill in a game is less about the end result and more about how you got to that end result.
DBD is a game where the more efficient you play the less skillfully you really approach the game. Like what is more skillful, a killer who wins most of their chases gets 8 hooks that results in a 2k and keeps the gen progress decently under control? Or is it a killer who tunnels someone out of the game early which puts survivors in a very difficulty to win situation that results in 4-8 max and gets a 4k?
What's more skillful for survivors, being able to evade the killer and draw out chases to lengthy degree or just rushing gens in two man teams to end the game as fast as possible with engaging very minimally with the killer?
The system is doing what it was designed to do, but it was designed in a weird way and doesn't really track anything in a meaningful way. Which means the only metric that matters is law of averages. Are you generally escaping more than you die, regardless of how you contributed to your own survival? Number go up. Are you getting kills through a method that while functionally effective is the lower skilled method? Number go up. Did you die carry a team and spent a year looping the killer only to die? Number go down, slightly. Did you rushed into a sub 10 walk out or play a long game where half the survivors walks out, but you got a lot of hooks? Number go down, slightly, maybe.
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Skill is definitely taken into account, since everything you do as Killer or Survivor culminates in whether you make a kill or escape.
A Claudette that always hides in the grass will lose the game for her team more often than not, causing her to drop in MMR. A face camping Bubba is not going to get 4ks at higher MMR, compared to a Nurse.
If you are getting 2ks and 2es on average (Which means that every 0k you get, you also get a 4k), it shows that you are being placed against players that are your skill level. Otherwise you would be getting 4ks all the time, or 0ks all the time, which indicates the mm system is failing.
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I mean if you're trying to tell me someone who hides in a locker then escapes is equal to someone who loops the killer for 5 minutes, we just are fundamentally not going to agree. The MMR system views them as the same. Your idea is "well they'll eventually have issues because they just will" with no real evidence of it. The system only counts kills and escapes. Anything else you think happens during the match is irrelevant.
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The MMR system counts the "average" of kills/escapes.
Yes a Claudette that escapes 1 while hiding in a locker will go up in MMR. But a Claudette that escapes 1 time and is killed 9 times while hiding in a locker, causes her MMR to plummet. (Which is going to happen, because she's not contributing anything to the game; and having 3 survivors almost always results in everyone dying).
You actually have a better point with a face-camping Bubba, because that's a very low skill tactic that allows Killers to advance way past their skill level in MMR.
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I think he has a good mindset for playing the game at high MMR. But that doesn't make him right.
This game can be a lot more forgiving to coordinated survivors than killers especially for minor mistakes. If you are running every game as a competitive sweat fest then it gets to be more of a chore than a game after a lil while.
It also doesn't seem that hard to crank up your killer MMR with only a couple of good games.
Personally I find the ideal of 50% 2K/2E idea of balance is ridiculous considering its a survival horror game. When I play survivor I want to be scared of getting killed and feel like escape is hopeless so when I do escape its a big thing and fits to the theme.
At the same time killer should feel oppressive and powerful because again that's the theme. This 50/50 game design of competitive pvp just waters down the whole horror game experience for me.
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It would be fine if all it was was personal skill that I was losing to. However that is not really the case. After gaining an even moderate amount of MMR you start going against 2-3 and even sometimes full 4 man SWFs (3 mans with 1 solo being most common, followed by 2 duos) because they are the only survivors that can reasonably climb MMR in the same way a killer can. Any killer btw, even if you face camp 80 different people 1 each game at a time you'll still get to the ultra high quality sweat swf MMR so you can't even 'play your own way' and MMR will sort itself out.
Well what does facing them entail? Near perfect coordination. About to down someone? Nope here comes their teammate for a hit, which allows them to walk long enough to get their dead hard back which they used earlier, now the chase goes on for another 40 seconds. All the while the 3rd man is usually healing/in the background just pinging generators away. Not to mention all of the free knowledge of your location, so you have to chase them for 30+ seconds before chase even STARTS for you to even BEGIN to accumulate bloodlust. Meanwhile a generator just got done because 2 of them were sitting on it because they knew exactly where you were with no fear.
At this point I would honestly much rather give solo Q like ping tools and then have them massively buff killers to compensate for this enormous gap in time efficiency that occurs when comms are involved. Because obviously with 4 solo Q survivors they have no time efficiency and the team rapidly falls apart, but as a killer you expediently exit this space where bad solo que survivors live, as it should be.
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This guy. Right here .....👆..... truth. I like you guy, come over sometime and you can bang my sister. Excuse me a sec, just spilled my bag of blow on the floor. Gotta snort the whole area of carpet.
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yeah those narcy streamers overestimate themselves.
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Perhaps this would matter if the MMR system wildly varied by thousands of points and you couldn't earn 800 MMR off around 17 max point games, and then the game will match you against whoever due to extending the search.
And you can absolutely escape the majority of your games playing as a selfish a-hole who doesn't help the team.
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I agree with him.
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Sure, let me just see how could I have played better with Huntress on Haddonfield against good survivors. Maybe I should have camped that basement hook I got until death and then camp another kill at the end with NWO. Ez 2k, balance achieved.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on0
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Ignoring the fact it came from Ohtofu which means it can usually just be ignored, he's blatantly wrong.
Equal skill in this game favors survivors unless you're absolute potato.
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I just played a couple games as her for a ritual, and mate, don't even get me ######### started.
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This! Thank you for using logic. If there is two modes then what is stopping people from sweating in casual for easy wins? Nothing will change.
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First off your taking opinions from ohtofu who has confirmed time and time again that he would happily give every BHVR employee sloppy toppy for 2000 more auric cells. Of course he's gonna like MMR.
Second off the game when "equal skilled survivor vs equal skilled killer" the game is incredibly unfun, and it's been proven time and time again that BHVR will not balance around high level despite having MMR in.
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“Why do you care if you lose?”
Can we ask survivors that same question? I play both sides and I’ve seen this question posed a lot toward the killer side but really not much toward the survivor side. Both sides deserve to have an expectation to win, but unfortunately with SBMM and broken boom totems, the balance is as bad as it’s been in a long time and needs some adjustment
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I agree on the killer front.
as for the survivor side, I'm getting a lot of really new killers and afk killers... I don't know why. I usually escape.
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Because some people on here don't know how to deal with losing. It is as simple as that. People would rather blame something else besides their own skill rather than learn from the match and accept that they were going against experienced/skilled players.
They want to be paired up with more casual players but they still want to win, without hardly trying.
That is a hard reality check, but one that many on here will not reach. The game will close down and people will still be complaining about how unbalanced it is, and not how much they never learned.
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It's not the result for many, it's the process. You can typically average the kills to what the devs intend, but this would either mean you stomp, you get stomped, or you only get 1K before the gens pop and camp out your last kill. What's the problem with this? It's boring. SBMM in any game funnels people into the meta, and guest what, both the survivor and killer metas are obnoxious. SBMM just puts a spotlight on everything wrong with the game, and the devs aren't exactly stepping up to fix them. Heck, if anything, they're throwing balance out the window and just letting mid-high level players just wallow.
Also, when was the last time Tofu was right about something?
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I have more of a problem with... how ridiculously overpowered survivors are. So if I'm high mmr im being put against 4 mans with full meta that makes them even stronger. With how survivors are right now I don't really think there is much of a skill ceiling. Most maps its literally just loop twice drop, loop twice drop, loop twice drop because most maps have the recourses to afford it. Like mmr wouldn't be a problem if they game wasn't so unbalanced.
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MMR didn't make anything worse either. The game you're playing right now is a result of bad balance changes, not MMR. Don't get so distracted with MMR this and that so much that you miss the real issues.
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MMR is ass, it doesnt take into consideration skill, just kills and escapes.
Which makes matchmaking sometimes even more random than ever before, dunno why people cant see it. Everyone talks about sbmm but there is no real sbmm to talk about
Thats why so many people have either 0k or 4k and very inconsistent games even with the same killer played in a row, you can see the skill of opponents is very random.
Also it makes half the playerbase sweat their asses off for some reason so thats there as a bonus.
All I wanted from MMR is to make my killer games easier and survivor games harder and it did exactly opposite for me.
So I am not enjoying it and not because I dont get "free 4k every game" because I never did even before lol
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