So, Why Are We Nerfing Pinhead?
Comments
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Why shouldn't it be possible, on a small map, with two perks dedicated to being able to do that, and a build for it, and a Pinhead player prioritising the box?
Between this and "Pinhead can always teleport in time", it just feels like people really don't think that a killer should be able to use their power without survivor permission.
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You need to consider newbies and those survs who play for fun, not for competitiveness. The target market for this game are casuals who like to play with friends.
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Because it's not fair? It shouldn't be a thing. I main Pinhead, and I think it's a good thing.
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And what isn't fair about it...?
Like, if you've dedicated half your build (addons, perks) specifically to prioritising being able to keep mapwide 1v4 pressure, as the killer is designed to be good at, and then you manage to do that, then that's fair! It could be your bog standard gen regression build and "how can I get one hit downs" to achieve the same sort of thing, but instead you're playing around Pinhead's strengths.
And the counter is either leading Pinhead on a merry chase whilst gens are solved (since someone having the box does stop all sort of gen pressure and chain hunt), or--as with basically everything else--co-ordination. He can't chase and down everyone. And at some point, somebody needs to be hooked.
Then as soon as the box is solved, half that build does nothing for approximately the next two minutes. And Pinhead has 0 map pressure and is harder to play, somewhat worse Clown. That's fair.
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Again, it's not fair. Pinhead can literally keep chain hunt active making it extremely hard to do anything (gens, healing, looping, etc). Not fair or fun. My opinion isn't changing. He needed these nerfs.
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"It's not fair because it's not fair" is not a good argument for why, in fact, a killer playing to maximise the utilisation of their own power is not fair.
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This. He’s awful to play against in solo Q. If I’m playing solo and get matched against him, I don’t even bother
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I think the fact that the solve time addons are getting nerfed is good, and that the chain interrupts being gone is healthy.
now they just need to buff the summoned chains a touch, in my opinion.
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he mad me cri one tim :c
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I have yet to see a compelling reason for "the time solvers being nerfed and the chain interrupts being gone is good" aside from "a power meant to pressure the entire team will in fact pressure the entire team if it's not dealt with". And people are bad at doing that, so rather than force people to adapt, scrap the entire idea so it's harmless against any slightly co-ordinated team.
Because to go back to my page 1 point: with a 6s solution timer, Pinhead is unable to (most of the time) even consider pressuring the box unless the person trying to solve it waits for him to get close or goes to say hello. It's simply unfeasible to cover that distance in the time allotted, or even most of the distance and land a portal and a summoned chain--particularly on any indoor maps, or ones with plenty of obstructions to ruin targeting. These same obstructions make the teleport pointless with a modicum of cleverness, as Pinhead is forced to be at least 10m away, which normally means no LOS on spawning--so what teleporting actually gets used for is trying to goad the player into breaking another chase rather than waste the ability.
Nerfing every effective way to keep the chain hunt going is taking what makes the character interesting from a gameplay perspective--his 1v4 potential--and basically turning it off. It becomes a slight time-wasting minigame that needs no coordination to deal with.
It doesn't feel like "turn him into another 1v1 anti-loop specialist only" is a particularly healthy development, since that's another pure example of balancing for complete lack of communication in solo queue and trying to design a killer in a way that a single survivor can basically win a match by outplaying.
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"No tears, please. It's a waste of good suffering."
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Had a match against a hoarder+franklin pinhead with +6 seconds solve time addons. It was not fun, we were in constant chain hunt and were never able to solve the cube. Pinhead always found us and took the cube.
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The engineer's fang nerf I get but that removal of the chain makes it pretty goddamn hard especially when three chains are already so inconsistant. iri Lament configuration I don't really understand why it had to be nerfed but okay. Box solving time addons I kinda get too although I think it's more of an issue of people getting harassed by chains while trying to solve the box that's annoying. Torture pillar being nerfed down the level of a brown addon makes no sense to me and nobody complained about it either. So yeah, they're definitely nerfing his cube and keeping it's power more in the ball park of the survivors which is kinda lame. On the bright side with these changes you can run engineer's fang and bent nail and only spawn ONE chain for the entire games, great build to run if you just hate yourself I guess.
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This is exactly what I was talking about. It's something that absolutely shouldn't be in the game. I'm fine with buffing him in other ways, but that build/addons needed changed.
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You're really not doing a good job of explaining why this is bad. Except "it's not fun".
You know what also isn't fun? Zero chain hunts because of the aforementioned "not enough time to even consider pressuring it" part.
And "if Pinhead employs a strategy to keep his passive going and uses that as a way to down survivors" is an undesirable strategy, you honestly might as well remove the character. Because you've staked your position on Pinhead effectively utilising his passive being a bad thing. That the character whose asset is his 1v4 pressure leading into easier 1v1s and winning, should not be able to play around that and should focus on 1v1's instead.
Which is a frustrating combination with the regular "everything is so stale and same-y" threads.
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I don't think I really need to go into detail why this isn't fair/fun. It's pretty obvious why people hate it (if you've played against it), and why the devs changed it. I'm fine with them buffing him in other ways, but that combo needed a change.
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Survivors really REALLY don't like being kept from holding M1 on gens.
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"Skill shots"... Not really. Hitting chains is quite easy. Even easier because you can basically let the portal appear directly behind the Survivor.
Takes some practice, but at least on PC it is not really hard IMO.
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"It's the best thing about PH's design imo."
The Devs seem to think otherwise. But because Killers wanted to keep this interaction (because, you know, standard-killer stuff... "This Killer is gutted!!111"...), they are nerfing the next best thing. Which makes Pinhead (or to be more precise, his Add-Ons) worse for everyone. Yay.
It is not like you cannot play Pinhead without Hoarder/Franklins. But a Pinhead with this combo is not really what the Devs wanted to have, so they are nerfing the Add-Ons to make the combo less effective. This results in the Add-Ons being worse for players who dont use them with Hoarder/Franklins and Hoarder still has the potential to be hold back (aka not getting Buffs), because it might become too good on Pinhead.
"giving up 2 perk slots for it" is not really an argument IMO. With that you can justify everything, no Killer should ever complain about DS and DH, because you are giving up two Perk slots for it. I get that you mean that Killers cannot go super-easy and run 4 Slowdowns when two Slots are used for Hoarder/Franklins, but they can still get a lot of Slowdown with two Perk Slots AND this combo.
But, because I like to use at least one Box Slowdown when I play Pinhead, I would rather prefer his interaction with Hoarder being changed. But because other players used this combo and the Devs dont seem to like it, I also lose one of the Add Ons I usually run.
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Not in my experience. Good Survivors can juke it, just like a Nurse blink.
Thing is, even if you juke a Nurse, she still gets at least one extra Blink to correct. Juke Pinhead and you gain MASSIVE distance against a very mediocre power.
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My theory is that the devs also were unaware of the nft situation and are now butchering him out of protest
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Played a solo q match earlier with Pinhead. Before I continue further I'd like to point out this Pinhead was the 5th one I played against in two days.
The other 4 did not run Hoarder + Franklin's. One of the four did 4k, he did well with pressuring us. It was a hard game for him I'm sure as there was only 1 gen left.
Now the 5th... I was playing solo q as I mentioned, someone put in a Badham offering and this Pinhead had both Iri addons, Hoarder's but no Franklin's. This was the only Pinhead game I played out of the five where two teammates dc'd.
I guess people really do not like both iris as they stand right now, those extra time to solve the box addons (this is one I don't care for) and you mix that in with Hoarder's and or Franklin's? DC city.
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The ONLY issue I had with this killer was the chains interrupting you while you solved the box. That ######### made absolutely zero sense. Everything else was great.
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I love when Aven says everything I wanted to say and more, it saves me so much time.
I love the last point especially as I tried to warn people about Hoarder + Franklin's but got probably the most negative feedback I've ever gotten in a thread I've made on here. It makes perfect sense now that they left those interactions but are nerfing his add-ons instead.
What boggles my mind is that Pinhead is still very new and I really don't think he's been around long enough to see people be true masters of him/his play style just yet. I think as time goes on we'll see more people getting better with him, after all he does have a rather high skill cap.
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Because if casuals aren't happy going against a certain killer, they need to be nerfed. Screw high level play, I guess.
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Could you not also take that same thing and apply it to his Kill Rate? Survivors obviously haven't adjusted to playing against him yet. He's pretty new, like you said. Even Trickster probably had a high Kill Rate when he came out just because he was new.
Likewise, Iri Fang needed a nerf. Idc what other people say. His other add-ons that got nerfed were his only usable add-ons.
Once again, in true BHVR fashion, they don't look at the why.
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because he killed too many bad survs at low mmr. i haven't even seen him at high mmr by the way.
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you can juke portals as well... just don't press shift +w
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He simply got overperformed my friend.
All that matters is the 50% kill rate and everything is gonna be fine.
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Too oppressive against new players. Simple.
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That's true for way more Killers tho.
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I remember complaining about that and people told me I just had to 'time it correctly', which in combination with the extra solving time addons was literally impossible, which then went on to me already having revealed my location by attempting to solve the box and the Pinhead already being on his way to interrupt me manually. Which has to be the worst experience I've ever had in this game.
I'm not sure the solving time addons still needed a nerf now that the bug will be fixed. I honestly hate Pinhead so I'm not complaining at all about these nerfs, but I feel like they should have tried that first.
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Right, but it's built passively for Pin. New players and noobs wont play around the cube and just perma get stomped.
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Honestly, if the Franklin's/Hoarder combo was overperforming, it was just because of Hoarder giving information a little bit earlier.
If someone is hit whilst trying to solve the box, the odds that they were going to solve the box were very low to start with. What's he going to do, hit you then turn around and leave?
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I mean, could totally be different for others. You are also on Console, which makes Pinheads Power harder to use.
But for me, I dont have any problems to hit with the Chain. (But I also played only Pinhead for some time from start to P3-50 with all Perks, so I played him a lot... He is also fun to play, but not as fun as those Killers I enjoy more)
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They also want console to test it out too..
...and basically us playing in the ptb and telling them about the ptb experience is... meh,
plus this is the same company that should Kill the Halloween Theme....
BUT THIS HALLOWEEN EVENT SUCKED
minus the free cosmetics we got... they were good,
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Well that sucks, I've never had any issue with solving the box. I just take it near some walls and most of the chains dont even hit me.
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What exactly are they nerfing?
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his add ons.
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I'm guessing engineer fang at the very least but can you say the others?
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Yeah that one but not sure what others are. You can look at the PTB notes.
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Engineer's Fang--spawns one less chain when hooked
Iridescent Lament Configuration--revealed within 24m, not 16m.
Larry's Remains--reduced from 4s extra solve time to 2s extra time.
Liquified Gore--reduced from 2s extra solve time to 1s.
Chatterer's Tooth--increased from 12s undetectable to 25s.
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Huh. Ok so I can kinda understand Engineer fang, but I don't understand the other addon's being nerfed. It's also pretty nice that chatter's tooth is being buffed though it's con is still significantly worse then it's pro's.
Thank you for the list.
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I kept reading Fang as Feng.
I need sleep.
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Same with Doc and Legion
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because he is too hard once the chains start to fly.
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Passive Madness for Doc was the doctor of an ancient time. No killer have a power that builds by itself, I guess thats why Bhvr nerfed it. (Underserved imo)
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oh, we're nerfing another mid tier character that absolutely did not need any nerfs in the first place?
cool, thanks BHVR!
glad we keep to enjoy our Spirit, Nurse, Blight games without any form of interruption, as anyone that might be able to shake that circle up is getting curb stomped! :D
welp, here is hoping that maybe they wont repeat the Hillbilly / Deathslinger story by actually giving the Ceobite a buff to compensate for the nerfs? i know its unlikely...
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there are 2 options
1) remove the ability to play with friends, strangers only, no communication
but we all know it's impossible since this game gets most of the profit by people that play survivors
2) make a quickplay( no SFW) and make a """competitive""" mode, with SWF allowed
but yet again, nobody will play comp again, and start quickplay matches only, and....we...you know th drill, you know where that will leads.
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Even engineers fang was fine. Sure, it was strong and that’s a good thing. But overpowered? I don’t see how. Not like it made him stronger than Nurse or Blight. It simply made him competitive at high MMR. It’s sad that being considered a strong killer is seen as overpowered in this game.
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