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is Pinhead's base power good or not?
I mean without add-ons (or maybe using just bad or not so good add-ons).
I feel like he needs some small buffs. For example you should not be able to break your own chains when you hit someone with your main power. You also should make chains breaking with objects a bit slower I think.
Also maybe the cube should be visible within 40-48 meters range or something. Not a whole map so Survivors have to search for it.
He just feels too much RNG (luck) for how difficult his main power is.
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He sucks as much as pig, but stats say he's ok, as well as pig. PH is second pig and will never get a single buff
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He's only decent if you play around Chain Hunts. If you're not getting Chain Hunts, he sucks.
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I'm in the very small minority in thinking Cenobite is S-Tier below Blight - 4th best in the game when Artist is released.
His incredible 4v1 allows for great pressure and intel, both are crucial for having a chance of winning in dbd as killer. His 1v1 is nowhere near as weak as people think it is; it prevents survivors making huge distance on peel aways, it holds them close when attempting to mindgame and rotate to them, it even interrupts and disrupts prompts. It's really good - the high skill cap should never be a reason for a killer to be considered weak.
When considering how strong a killer is, you have to consider what their power allows them to do when you play well with it - Cenonite mains at a high level will crush teams, his power is a huge scale tipper, he can juggle, interrupt, scout, deny loop rotations, locate the whole team, disrupt objectives if they aren't aware or organised. He is a real handful at a high level of play. AND on top of all that, his add-ons allow for drastically different playstyles and fun ones at that.
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Well written. Thanks.
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I agree.
There is a gimmick playstyle involving using Lethal Pursuer to attempt to locate the box spawn early. With this, he's probably 'B' tier.
Without this, he's low 'B' or high 'C'. His chain summon is extremely situational and his hunts can be almost completely nullified if you do them right. He relies on survivors making serious mistakes, which isn't good.
As some very experienced killers have pointed out, he's incredibly reliant on addons for viability. And most of those are being nerfed 'to the ground' with the exception of Engineer's Fang, which is going to remain a problem addon and will almost certainly be nerfed further soon.
Hmm.
I disagree, strongly.
That 4v1 pressure only works if survivors mess up and either ignore the box or attempt to solve it next to you. Savvy survivors will run the box and solve it in a safe area, and then that pressure evaporates leaving you as an M1 killer with one of the most mediocre anti-loop tools in the game.
Watch Otz playing Cenobite as a good example. If he finds the box first, he can sometimes parley that into some early hooks - emphasis on 'sometimes'. If he doesn't (it's extremely RNG even if you know how the spawns work), it's an uphill fight. Chain summons only really work in wide open spaces - they break almost instantly in buildings, indoor maps or jungle gyms.
He's very good against teams that don't know how to play against him, I'll give you that.
The problem is that while he can squeeze out hits or use chains for intel, this is all time consuming. By the time you've downed someone, gens will be popping and savvy teams will always solve the box when you are busy with chase/hooking.
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Without addons? He's bad. His M2 rarely gives a reward in most situations except when playing against people who fail to break the chains. His active ability is like someone wanted to create an anti-looping power that was made of downsides: it's fiddly to aim, it has not one but two view changes. It has a cooldown on taking actions after you fire, and of course the cooldown on being summoned again. It gets broken by scenery. It gets broken by you. It doesn't actually deny vaulting or the like, only slow it. If you miss horribly, enjoy a scenic view of the map rather than moving.
His passive doesn't give time, by default, in most maps to ever pressure it. If you're more than 40m away when you pick up the box (and it always spawns 40m or more from him), 6s isn't enough time for Pinhead to get over to you except by teleporting--which puts a 2m delay on another chain hunt (45s+90s to passively activate) unless he gets the box a bit earlier. Teleporting is hilariously survivor favourable with good survivors, since it can be used to break other chases or dump him into a bad loop. Oh, and of course there's a CD on taking action after teleporting. If you're making Pinhead teleport? Just have walls < 10m away from you, he'll spawn without LOS (teleport places him 10-...14m away, I think?)
Nerfing his addons puts all the control over his 1v4 ability in the hands of survivors, and most of the addons that modify the possessed chains themselves are garbage. More casting range is useless except for harassing box solvers, but the portal can't be placed further away any faster. More chain range is not going to help since you always try to minimise the distance it's fired to limit the anim. More turning rate or reduced CD are non-entities in what happens; you're still hyper-responsive early in the firing arc and nearly unresponsive late.
If his passive is going to do nada, his M2 needs a big buff.
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I mean isn't he getting Nerfed so his 4 v 1 sucks ass in a few days?
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If high walls were non-existent, I'm sure Pinhead would be in a much better position. Wait every map has an area with high walls, oh well.
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To be fair I am not really trying to play around his box so that might be the case as well why he feels worse then he maybe is. I just don't find it that fun to keep proxi camp area where I THINK (quess) is the box and then focus just on that Survivor.
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The box spawns are designed to place it away from you. More than 40m from Pinhead, 16m from any Survivor. Result: unless you know where everyone is when it spawns, you're only going to find the box by accident, when someone picks it up, or if someone is for some strange reason running to an area of the map with no objectives.
Bonus points for being even harder to pressure the box on an indoor map where his power is already neutered in every conceivable way.
Pallet Dropping Simulator 2018The Game is super bad for that.0 -
Cenobite forces the player to have a good judgement of where to be and when. He is a reactionary and predictive killer, you need to be on the ball with your map knowledge, tile spawns and how to play at those tiles in response to how the survivors run them. I compare Cenobite to Clown the most because of this. Both of their powers rely on the player having good knowledge, awareness and intelligence.
Cenobites need to be able to judge when to let a Config be solved for free, when to pressure the solver and when to teleport to it. On top of that, they need to know how the Config spawns to intercept survivors attempting to solve it, and know when it's a good time to comimit to them or leave them. All of this criteria doesn't make Cenobite weak, it makes the person playing him have to learn him and play well. People mistake this for weakness, but i've vs'd Cenobites vs efficient teams who did incredibely well with just their Possessed Chains, they didn't get a kill because of not playing the Config well though, and Cenobites who dominate the Config but missed their Chains too often. It isn't an insane concept to think that if a killer plays the power poorly or not strongly enough that they will most likely lose. If you play well as Cenobite, you will see this mirrored in the results, you're not gonna get dumpstered too often.
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On a tangent it’s unreasonable to balance a killer around literally no add-ons since it’s expected that they’ll have at least two brown or yellow add-ons every match. Running no add-ons at all is a bit like playing a shooter or RPG using no equipment, it should be obvious you’ll perform a little worse than expected that way. Likewise for expecting killers with no perks to do well.
That’s not to say you should expect killers to have to use specific rare or ultra rare add-ons to do well. Pinhead shouldn’t hypothetically only work well while using Engineers Fang for instance. But expecting them to at least use two add-ons of any color is in line with how the game is designed.
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I mean, seeing as most of Pinhead's addons might as well not be, especially after this nerf...
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i'll give him 4 chains instead of 3
every time i try to chain a surv in the other side of a pallet he is able to reach it and drop/vault it, feels totally useless unless in a open field... but for that we already have clown
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