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When will BHVR side with the killers!?
Comments
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Well, I guess you just don't want to understand what I'm trying to say, because you just ignored the whole point you replied to. Once again, people who only play one side can't have an objective understanding of a situation, and the games turns into crap when the devs listen to these one-sided "mains". Now one more score for survivor mains who don't care about fair timings, think any pallet hits should be impossible and dead hard should not require precise timing. Any kind of discussion is futile here: "they made survivors stronger - they did a good thing, if they make them weaker - they do a bad thing".
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The hit validation is a great thing, not talkin about DH here because it is a double edged sword (i was exhausted on the ground so many times but on the other side i hate "DH for distance" as killer).
BHVR is not on anyones side, nearly all of the bigger updates during my time of play (nearly 2 years) were killer sided, like many of the map reworks or the map update were they changed some of the worst tiles. DS and toolboxes and co-op gen speed got nerfed. Moris and Keys got both nerfed. Undying was a big thing for killers but so are the boon totems for survivors (lets see how the next scorched hooks perks turn out, the one we got now is rather weak). Some killers got reworked, some buffed and some nerfed, so there is no clear taking sides.
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I agree with your post but man, the game is 5 years old and we are all still discussing things that should have been fixed during the BETA.
Honestly, 5 years after release and we still have :
- performance issues
- balance problems, tons of it
- bugs
- some things that are not server sided
5 ######### YEARS
Give me another successful multiplayer game that is/has been in an equivalent garbage state after 5 years ?
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Sea of Thieves, though I think rare are fixing that problem.
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I've been a Deathslinger main since his release. He is worse than clown currently. Winning a chase is something thats bound to happen. That doesn't make the class fun or enjoyable to use, you're sorely mistaken. He's virtually unplayable now; I'm not going to hold ADS to run around pallets and become a addon dependent killer to use features that should just be built in base. I've since converted to clown, but if you'd like a brief breakdown on Deathslinger, I'm more than happy to explain why his nerfs were not only unwarranted but overboard.
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And what exactly show it’s killer sided? Is it the Wraith and Deathslinger nerfs? Are we basing it off of clueless survivors not knowing loops and tiles? There is no credible evidence that would show the game is killer sided
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I agree with all of that.
I've seen what the game was like in the earlier days and that was 1000 times survivor sided. Now the pendulum swung to the killer side. The weird part is that no one actually realizes it.
Why do the devs always favor one side then favor the other but never find a spot in middle?
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It's easier to see the flaws in something when you're the one using it. When you're designing it it's much more difficult. Most games have this issue, and it's rampant in the real world in everything from factory machines, to software, to governmental systems.
The fact of the matter is, there's just not enough space to thoroughly test something while still iterating on it, so with anything that isn't a finished product, you can expect there to always be issues and bugs. The only way you can avoid that is with something that is only being fixed for many years, and even then you're catering to such a widely innovative creature as a human, which will probably still find ways to create issues in the system.
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To be fair, your killer play time does not affect your survivor MMR, even though killer mains are better survivor players than new survivors.
So it's kinda easy to say you are being held hands because you've been put into baby survivor MMR. If I played survivor only and switched to killer, I could make the exact same argument as you do, because when I first switched to killer, it was so much more relaxing and easier to win, I got 4k's while literally going to the bathroom mid-game. Heck, I got 4k's with 4 gens remaining when playing BK myers with 0 perks. That is how easy playing killer was when I first switched.
Wait untill you get matched up with actual decent players.
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Mori's were gamechangingly broken though. You could still get 4k's when survivors brough keys, you couldnt even get 2 man escapes if a killer used an Ebony Mori. They cannot be compared. Mori's are comparable to BNP's, and BNP's were nerfed heavily 4 years ago. Keys are more comparable to NOED than Mori's.
"without compensation" cooldown after chainbreaks are faster, ADS is significantly faster in movementspeed. And arguably, he only recieved 2 nerfs. 1 zoning nerf and a TR nerf. Slinger's zoning was being able to quickly aim and let go so he would gain distance, untill the point where survivors either got shot or m1'd(hmm, what other killer had this issue but got fixed pretty much instantly? Oh wait, I remember, Pyramid Head).
Removed her most powerful addons? All her addons are still in her kit except for the skillcheck ones. She literally recieved a buff. The only aspect that got nerfed, was headpopper pig, and that needed nerfing, everything else is literally better than it was before.
I mean, it took literally 4 years to nerf Ebony Mori, Trapper was performing quite decently up untill rank 1 for years. Ebony Mori was overperforming in every single scenario other than rank 20. It's pathetic it took them 4 years to change a 1 into a 2. Same argument.
Deathslinger needed changes, he wasnt entertaining to face, he wasnt fun to face, he wasnt enjoyable to face. Even Trickster in an open field is more enjoyable to face than Deathslinger. Yeah, Deathslinger was super weak in the 1v4, but solo players exist, there is no communication in the game, this makes Deathslinger a boring to face killer at best, and extremely annoying to the point of DC'ing whenever the penalty was removed.
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It's inherently toxic. Hard to say what side to be on, because you have to be mean to double pip at high ranks, regardless of which you choose. Gen rushing with the right perks to escape death and loop better are obviously disgusting, as is running NOED on Killer or proxy camping. The game is likely balanced relatively alright considering you can find a game pretty quick as either, and you need people to feel like there is a good chance to live as survivor to actually use them as much as the Killer needs to feel they can kill someone. All of this while making it seem like it isn't a binary experience (e.g. Deathslinger quickscope).
The real issue is SWF's, and that the game cannot balance around it on a natural level. If Killers are strong enough to combat them, then they are overpowered because not having communication means you will get overwhelmed. However, it's like other multiplayer games, where a good portion of the playerbase on PC will likely just queue with friends. There is no resolving this easily, and it results in a frustrating experience for the Killer.
On a more personal level, I do not like Decisive Strike. It refutes one of the core mechanics of the game as not true as a 100% certainty. The only Killer that does this is Nurse, who is always top tier for a reason -- they're not very intuitive to keep, and they are remarkably overpowered and stifling. Obviously it's to reduce tunneling even more, but there are buffs to other perks that can accomplish this and promote variety while still remaining within the confines of game mechanics. Third down is usually death, something like PH can mori you, but the death from the hook is very likely regardless, it's a soft violation and mori's have been in the game forever. DS is not something that makes the Killer feel good, and it will always help a Survivor regardless of if they are good or bad tremendously, with a visual acuity of 0.
Other than that though (and the silly Boon Totems), I'm relatively satisfied with the state of the game, and feel older killers without any mobility likely require some add-on reworks or perk modifications to hold their own on larger maps more so than what we received. Survivor add-ons to be slightly reworked to divide the main perks into specialized ones to promote build variety would be nice to see as well. We know what survivors want to take almost every game, so remove that and spread it across other add-ons that aren't reaching that purpose to reach a more nuanced perspective, and be able to play the game in different ways that are still effective.
Post edited by Cynthesia on1 -
I wonder what will happen to the game if Killers are not having fun anymore?
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And getting carried by good survivors.
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With the boons and now with the dead hard buff im giving up on playing killer. I played some yesterday and i had such a bad time..honest im just not having fun. I dont care if i kill all 4 but when i feel like i have no chance at all..
I feel bad for mirror michaels out there.. he's my favorite type of killer to go against as a survivor and now boons are destroying him.
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How dare devs to fix unfair pallet hits and exhaustion on the ground?!
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If my screen says I got away then I should get away. If your screen says you got a hit that's wrong.
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As a killer with high ping, you still can do 10m hits on survivor screen, lmao
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I hope you realize that even if you have better ping than the survivor you still lose to the validator right?
E.G
Let's pretend a chase starts at 0 ms(milliseconds).
Survivor is at pallet with 250 ping, throws pallet at 100 ms in
killer swings at 350 ms in (a mere 1/10 of a second past the survivor pressing spacebar in reality). Killer has ping of 25.
Killers swing registers at 375 ms, survivor throw registers at 350. You just got validated.
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You do realize how stupid this argument sounds right?
I'm not saying you mean it this way but this is how it sounds to me.
"Whatever I see on my screen is always right no matter what"
Or simply said "I'm always right and you're always wrong"
Your ping could be worse than from the killer and when it looks on your screen that you were save, because you're ping was actually worse than the killers ping you weren't save at all.
This goes the other way around as well btw.
Again, it might not be the way you meant it to sound, but it definitely sounds like that. ✌️
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Here, y’all get some common sense pls.
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I’m just gonna say they straight up nerfed some of the pigs best add ons. She doesn’t have many good ones anymore.
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if you get the hit - you deserve it since the game has led to you to believe you would get that hit
think again
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If you would deserve it, it would not get validated.
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it needs validation because trash servers, but that's not player's fault
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Which were warranted, people really mistaken "good" for the definition of unhealthy. Oh no she lost her addon combo that made her unbearable to go against.
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finally, i would say...keys and hatch were BROKEN and OVERABUSED mechanicsa for years! and some people act like it was some kind of uncalled or not really needed nerf, something easily avoidable or unnecessary that han't the priority....
remember when the clown reloading was bugged and it allowed him to run extremely fast and catch a surv in few seconds because the mechanic was bugged?, yeah, imagine if we still had that problem....
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Moris were more broken than keys by a long shot. For keys to work the survivors atleast had to do most of their objective and have someone die. Moris would let you fully remove someone from the game extremely early, and continue doing it. Don't downplay the amazing change of keys just because you wanted it faster.
Wraith most definitely did not need the nerf, fully agreed. Deathslinger most definitely did. If you read my comment I clearly said I thought he also needed compensation, but the nerf was for sure warranted. Just because a killer is B tier doesn't mean it is ok to have super unhealthy design. AGAIN, I thought he needed a buff to go with it, even make him 115% movement speed, but to say the nerf wasn't warranted is just wrong.
Pig is only worst if you thought the only way to win was to use her traps that can just kill survivors based purely on luck factors out of their control. Just like the changes to Deathslinger, it was a healthy and correct change, and they did give her new addon options that are good. If you care about balance and think you know better than the balance team, then it should be pretty obvious that abusable and unhealthy isn't good design. Her traps not working is a bug, you can't blame that as a legitimate change they did.
Trapper buff is good, and your only complaint for this one is "it should've been done faster". Oh so they finally did it and you still aren't happy? Ah so you are just the kind to only see the negative and even when we get what we want you complain, gotcha.
Just because a killer is low tier doesn't mean they need buffed up to S tier. It is fine for killers to just be mid tier in a game like this, you don't see any other PvP games trying to make all characters top tier. Realistically, there should be no horrible bottom tier killers and honestly, just like most tier lists say, no killer is unplayable and horrendous. Even with the slinger nerf, I've seen many people still play him super effectively. How would YOU buff a killer like clown up to S tier without making him the most unbearable and boring killer to face? How would you buff a killer like Legion to S tier without making them a super version of old legion. Some killers just need some base number changes and they are fine, in reality killer needs buffs to their base kit, like better gen regression, but if you think every killer needs to be S tier, you are either delusional, or you don't actually know how balancing in games work lol. If you truly believe unhealthy design is the same as being good and strong, then I think it is the latter option that you don't know how balancing and making a game fun works
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Ahhh, the old point of killer main seeing anything that is balanced, compared to how it was before, as a nerf to them. You people should probably start to split your massive ego from the game and understand that this is a fix, nothing else. Dead Hard has been a broken perk for a long time, in the sense that killers would still hit you mid-animation (hence, mid invulnerability), even when the exhausted effect applied. A fix is a fix, not a nerf to killers. I'm not melting Norway if I put some ice cubes in my tea, during summer.
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Firstly, I'm not a killer main, dear survivor main. Unlike you, I play both sides, so I understand when the balance is being broken beyond repair.
Secondly, if Dead Hard was "broken", why did everyone still use it all the time? If the perk is OP when "broken", it's ridiculous with it's "fixed". It's like saying "the Blight is broken, he is actually supposed to be able to hit survivors on his first rush, let's fix him so that he is finally balanced!"
So all you are trying to do is to apply some outstanding mental gymnastics to defend your survivor main interests and relabel an unneeded buff of a meta perk to "a fix". Nice attempt though.
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“Wow the worst killer in the game had an add on combo which only slightly worked if the map was good and she was even able to secure a down in the first place! Wouldn’t want her being C tier with two add ons!”
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Wow they gave the killer overall better addons and healthier ones at that and removed something that was extremely unhealthy for the game, man BHVR sucks at balancing why can't pig kill survivors on first down anymore.
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That’s the thing she has 1 good add on now. All her other add ons aren’t worth using nor are they good in any shape or form. Previously she had good add ons with some stronger ones which still rarely worked but helped her apply pressure she’ll never get otherwise but now she has literally nothing besides 1 decent add on that gives you an extra trap.
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She does in fact still have good addons, and even more ambush ones as well that make her ambush better. If the only way you could win as her was the cheesy addons, then I'm sorry but that is a fault of you. She has a much better choice of addons now.
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What they needed to do was rework dead hard.
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Why did people still use it, you ask? Are you sure you DID play both sides? Because, if so, you wouldn't be asking this. Let me tell you then, so you can fake "playing both sides" on your future statements: because it was useful, when it did work. Much more than Lithe could ever be. Much more than Balanced Landing could be. Because with the constant tunneling, it helped getting to some pallets that would have otherwise been too distant to make it to them, when it did work.
Any attempt at a reasonable conversation is wasted on these forums. There isn't a more toxic community than this one, thanks to people like you. It's like trying your hardest to try to reason with a wall, and said wall doesn't even realize to be a wall in the first place. One would be better trying to win all of the highest amounts in every single one of the world's lotterys, in the same day, than he is to see reason here. But hey, go on. I reckon you like to play the cool guy, where you can try to be. Oh, and I liked your ham-fisted attempt at trying to set me up as a survivor main, just because you were clearly advocating for a survivor nerf and I was against you. Your logic is flawless and on point, my dude. I wonder how people like Einstein would feel if they had know that such a brilliant genius was bound to be born long after them.
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I know it feels personal when they destroy Deathslinger but think of it as a fine tuning of balancing as a whole. All the killers make up the killer side and some killers need adjusted to be stronger and some weaker for many different reasons. Survivors are on the other spectrum of the coin and any small change affects all of them equally. In the grand scheme of things though the last few updates have been overall meant to make the game more enjoyable for both sides focusing more mostly towards killer. There's been a few sidesteps but overall it's clear BHVR is trying to equal things out.
I however think Boon Totems are a terrible idea after seeing them live and feel they overdid the Deathslinger nerf by moving towards the laziest solution possible for the issues they faced. I understand why they made the decisions they did but I do not agree with them. Everything else though is great.
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It's not immunity. They're hits that you shouldn't have gotten regardlessly. Survivors would get hit during the dead hard and that wasnt intended. All that's happened is killers cant get cheap hits due to bad connection.
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Short answer to your title
Start being a PepegaCredit meme with killer skins
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They want to have survivors in power role since they are more players on that side. But many survivors wants stronger killers also because game will get boring with escape after escape. I don't know what would bring them more money having a survivor sided game like now or make it killer sided.
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"Survivor sided"? I keep seeing that phrase thrown around all the time. I personally feel this game caters to killers so I don't agree with that.
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Oh yeah the ambush that’s easily countered by just running in the opposite direction when you see her crouch. Such a hard thing to dodge! She’s an M1 killer with no power until she downs someone and even then that power has an extremely high chance to be negated instantly if RNG is on survivors side.
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If the killers hits the survivor before he activates the perk - the hit is deserved. But such deserved hits then get rolled back by the survivor sided hit validation.
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Tell that to anyone with 20 ping and they will call you a liar. I am always the lowest ping and get validated against people with worse ping all the time. The worse so far was a console user at 100 ping.
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Well yeah but if you don't get it then you obviously didn't hit them in the first place. Just because you see it on your screen doesn't mean that's what happened. The client isn't survivor sided either, it just goes based off of the best ping. Everyone complaining about this are being selfish and not taking into account that survivors need the game to be fair too. The game shouldn't become imbalanced just because someone has mcdonalds wifi. Bad ping killers used to be able to hit you through windows that you had already vaulted or pallets you dropped earlier than they swung. And that still happens. It always will. The goal is to just make that happen less. This isnt some crusade against the killer mains to give survivors ez escapes, its just a fix to something thats been broken for a while.
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There are so many inaccuracies stated here.
There is far more than just ping at play when we are talking about net code and what actually is determined by the server. It isn't by definition that the better ping wins or doesn't get hit validated. I have a glass fiber connection, my ping is perfectly fine... yet I still experience roll backs, humm...
Then it comes to player feedback, if the survivors were on the ground and exhausted or the killer hears the scream and sees the survivors take the hit but just magically recover and keeps running. It is the exact same issue just reverse. Seeing it is once again one sided just means that the implementation is still extremely flawed. Being exhausted on the floor was bs and just the same having survivors magically heal from a hit is bs.
The game always already had a validation of the hit, it just prioritized the input of the killer previously and now it doesn't. They stated that it was to difficult to press the button in response, so they changed it. It is clearly handling the actions of pallets and dh before the hit. The priorities in the code got changed.
Anyone that claims dead hard or pallets are now fixed should go play killer, experience it from the other end. It is not fixed by a long shot.
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I play killer almost everyday and I have never experienced the DH bug. The worst thats happened to me is sometimes the pallet drop sync is off. If anything I have more problems when playing survivor. Running away from the killer only to teleport back to them and die happens a lot in my experience.
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There are many people who experience it, there is enough video evidence for it. Even streamers and people with extremely good setups are seen having it. This isn't some made up grievance. It is the exact same issue with the pallet validation, if you can experience that it is just a matter of time before you get a DH validated.
You teleporting as a survivor is more of an issue with your own, it has nothing to do with hit validation.
Twist and turn as you want, but the feeling of being robbed, the incorrect feedback received by killers is an issue... if you down someone and everything in the game tells you that, makes you stop chase and now that feedback is unreliable.
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Just stop playing and there will be no matches or really long waits. Then they will fix it. No game without killers
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Sorry, friend. But less killers mean more range for MMR speculation. Beginners will be faced with SFW.
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Never because survivors will bring more money
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