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A Complete List Of Maps By Hooks per Square Meter
Hello all. In an attempt to use as much hard data as possible to distill down the most neutral map for our DBD league finals coming up, we created this spreadsheet.
The first page distills based on square meters per hook. More hooks per sqm. = Killer bias, less = Survivor bias. Purple-ish is neutral.
Of those that were neutral, we then go to the next metric (sheet 2 at the bottom) which is consideration of infinite looping potential. Those are then excluded and the final metric we used was the old kill rate data within range of 40-45% Kill Rate for the maps.
We determined that the 3 maps we would like to use are
Gas Heaven, Blood Lodge, and Coal Tower.
Other considerations had us rule out The Thompson House, Dead Dawg Saloon, and Rancid Abattoir.
This is all from data we have available from the Wiki as well as that released by BHVR that we could find. What other data should we have factored in? What other information has BHVR released that we may have missed? What do you think of our method for determining neutrality potential?
Thanks for reading and I hope you find this useful or helpful!
Poggy
Comments
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Well that makes sense. I like those maps on either side. I think Gas Heaven is one of the best maps
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It has "heaven" in the name. Seems to make sense! 😁
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Do you think BHVR might release updated kill rates?
One thing I would also like from BHVR is more data on how many pallets and vault locations can spawn per map. Right now all we have are hooks and old kill rate data from 18 months ago (if not longer). Which definitely gave is a decent picture but not all we could have used to determine balance. Kill rates are taking into account everyone and we aren't "everyone" in our league. We're mostly red rank killer/survivors. So the actuality might be completely unique for higher ranks.
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The fact that Haddonfield is in the neutral part worries me. Size and Hook distance don't make a map Survivor or Killer sided.
The fact that Haddonfield has so many infinite fences, house of pain, some safe pallets, 12 million windows inside every house and some "dead houses" which can be used as a W Heaven Mini Midwich makes this Map very Survivor sided.
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ok that's not what the post is about though
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How is it not? He is trying to find the most neutral map for some sort of tournament. Haddonfield is in the neutral center which can't be true because Haddonfield is Survivor sided. Only including Map size and hook distance don't make a map balanced for anything, not a regular Match and not for any experiment or tournament. Size plays a role but also the objects which are placed inside a Realm, and Haddonfield has to much loopable junk inside it to count is as a neutral map.
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Quoth the title, "A Complete List of Maps by Hooks per Square Meter"
The point you make is about windows and pallets and such.
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And if you read the actual thread, they search for a neutral map for something like a tournament. And then I explained what I explained.
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Sorted by hooks per square meter. Not pallets
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They first looked at hook spawns, narrowing down to maps which didn't have the hooks either too close or too far apart. Out of those 9 'neutral' maps they then looked at loops. Removing 3 maps that had 'infinites', including Lampkin Lane. That left them with 6 maps, 2 which were removed because Corn messes with some killers powers.
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Could have sworn midwich and grim pantry were survivor sided.
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But their saying that the metric of looking at hooks per a square mile is flawed already. It really doesn't matter what the average is. I know that they're trying to avoid killers having hooks too close together in case they manage to get 2 hooks or getting hook dead zones but this isn't the way to do it. You really do have to look at individual maps for that metric. I don't think coal tower or gas heaven are that good with hooks but that depends on RNG.
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Why does the amount of hooks matter so much? There could be 50 hooks for all I care if there are a high amount of pallets, loops, and LOS blockers.
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It's not the number of hooks that matter, it's their distance on the map by default. However, the only reason it's hard included is because only hard data we have on each and every map from the wiki.
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In other words, I couldn't find hard data on how many pallets and windows are on every map. I hope that makes sense. We used what we could as a metric. But since, like you said, it doesn't matter "so" much, we added other metrics on top, including to some extent our own judgement on infinite potentials in windows/pallet loops.
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We are determining that by how close together they could potentially spawn. We take the min possible spawn hooks per map divided by the size of the map, the max per map divided by size, and then average them. Then we take all maps and get an overall average and find the mean deviation for each map. How far or close to the average distance of possible hook spawns is each map? That's what the first page of the sheet is telling us.
EDIT: And in this case, we use 97% to 104% as "neutral" territory.
Mind you Neutral in this category doesn't mean neutral in every category. We take what is neutral in this hook category, and then further break down which of those are neutral in another category - a la infinite loop potentials. The "Bias" on the first sheet is ONLY referring to the bias of hooks per square meter.
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So, first everyone who is talking about pallets and fences, we started there too and arguments came up. So we wanted to see if by any metrics available is there another way to determine neutral maps based on provable stats instead of peoples opinion. For example, pretty much everyone in our league agrees Ormond is survivor sided. Well, by kill rate and hooks its actually almost balanced. But we still know better, the size is what ends up making that map a problem. Of course Hadonfield isnt balanced as well because like the corn it has too many things to to obstruct the killers views. So, my point being is those got naturally weeded out by the data we had anyway. So where this information may not reflect every little detail it did help us determine which maps have some semblance of balance even if we werent looking at everything we use to determine balance.
The best example of that is midwich to meat plant. Midwich is not survivor sided because of the number of hooks spawned in relative proximity to each other and the fact that many killers gain advantages using narrow hallways with no turns or room to evade for downs and or teleporting across the entire map or easy way to stalk. Traps also work well on midwich because you can force people into them. Now with that said most people I know hate meat plant over midwich and even though most of us feel midwich is killer sided we would choose midwich over meat plant any day because at least its spread out enough to apply pressure across the map on some level.
Is our system perfect no, but its because we dont have all the data we would like, however did it get us to a fair resolution so teams can play their championship game on the closest to balanced we could get? I think it absolutely did exactly that.
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Excellent explanation, thank you. My only gripe would be Blood Lodge. Is it really balanced since the Killer is visible to the Survivors for most of the match? That wide-open center is really a problem. Is that less relevant since there are more dead zones nowadays?
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I just love the people who came into the thread, complained, and ignored: The title of the thread, the contents of the spreadsheet, the breakdown in the text that followed
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That's okay. Sometimes things need to be parsed a bit more. Data can be confusing and maybe I'm not the best communicator.
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Is it new ormond or old one? Bc with the new iteration, I encountered actual hook dead zones multiple times. On one long border of the map were a total of three hooks. If you used just one of these hooks for a sacrifice, and another survs goes down right at the already destroyed hook (so not at the edeg at all), there was literally no way to hook them, bc the nearest hook was just to far away.
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We are using the data available for the total number of hooks possible max/min on the Wiki. Currently Ormond sits at 8 to 12.
You may have gotten on the map with a low spawn count. And also the "average hooks per sqm" doesn't necessarily mean that in a given area of a map you expect to find X hooks, because it could be some are clustered a little closer and an area with none which would offset the average. You can also see that we determine the bias only based on that information on the first page, and it is determined by the deviation percent, not any individual potential spawn. On the low end of Ormond spawn (8), the bias is Survivor. But the deviation and max possible favor killer.
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any chance to update it with the new maps? love the work
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As the hook density shouldn't be the only consideration, you should remove Blood Lodge as a contender. It is heavily survivor favoured as you have near-perfect vision of the killer at all times. While tournaments often lack killer variety, this would be the nail in the coffin of anyone wanting to run a stealth killer with any degree of effectiveness.
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They probably do it before mid-patch again, but I really want to see pick rates too. I really wanna laugh on Deathslinger pick rate.
Problem is that kill rate doesn't mean anything without pick rate, when only few players are playing that killer...
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How hook number affects if map is biased for survivor / killer?
Isn't it about pallets, loops, size etc.?
Some of your killer biased are most hated maps by killers.
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