As a survivor main. I agree that circle of healing needs to be toned down a bit.
I think the perk itself needs a nerf. It's strong which I like but I do think it's too strong and hurts a lot of killers. Thankfully there are easy ways to nerf it to be fair and without killing it like how most killers want it be. There are two ways to balance it.
1. Don't let it stack with other healing perks or Medkits
This is the main problem that makes it op imo. Why didn't they do this in the beginning is beyond me
2. Slightly lower the healing speed to 90 or 80%.
Lowering the speed most likely wouldn't make it bad. 90% Increase healing speeds are still really strong.
That is all that needs to be done. Do this and it more fair. Im not going into changing boons themselves because that's another discussion but I think this is the best way to make it more balanced. What do you think?
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I think the fact that everyone basically has self care is enough benefit. I’d change it to self care healing speed.
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Yeah go for it. Give it the mettle of man treatment and make it completely useless. Self care already is more efficient unless the totem is right next to you and the killer ignores it, so go ahead and nerf it into the ground.
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Exponential and Shadowstep are both fine perks imo. I like the idea of boon perks as a whole. I do agree COH is too much though.
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I think these are fine points, and I agree whole-heartedly. The most frustrating thing to me as a killer, is finding out that I had the ability to snuff them, only to have them bless them again ten seconds later. That's frustrating.
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They most likely will never do #1 :(
I'd personally:
Set it to Self-Care speed when healing yourself (long heal time when solo = risk/reward)
Set it to +50% when healing others (less people on gens/altruism = risk/reward)
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I agree with you. I'm worried about it being nerfed into the ground too but I honestly don't think this would nerf it into the ground. At the very least I feel we should test it
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Everyone not biased and objetive, survivor main or not survivor main think that CoH is busted. Is the only Boon you are almost forced to search and snuff because it's too powerful.
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I agree I think Exponential and Shadowstep are both fine. I just think Circle of healing needs to be toned down a bit
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I doubt about first one. But wouldn't mind healing speed bit reduced.
I think 20~24 seconds to heal without medkit would be fine.
Most high MMR players don't bring Self Care often and healing faster than Self Care without Medkit is already an advantage.
Also many people can use it simultaneously. So why not.
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I think a good change would be to make it 100% self-heal speed for the booner, and 50% self-heal speed for all others.
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If anything I think flat out removing the self heal part would make it fine, a full team could reset as though they all had active well make it - that's already strong enough for a boon that doesn't require the killer to be nearby for to get value out of.
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Not letting it stack with other heal perks would be unnecessary. I agree the perk is somewhat a bit much. But the way to nerf it correctly, and boon totems in general. Would be to make it so the perk only applies to the original users. So that way only the person who runs the perk gets any use of it. So they the one user would get to use an upgraded self-heal, but with a high risk of it being found.
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Not saying said nerf is to the ground. I'm just saying I wouldn't care if you did. You could make it a blank perk that did nothing and it wouldn't affect me at all.
Math just isn't in favor of CoH. Between the time to find a totem and set it up, even if the killer doesn't snuff it, add in running to the totem and heal time... You would be more efficient to just work on gens and then self care when injured.
The only time it does much of anything is if it's nearby, the killer doesn't snuff it, and the killer let's you heal. Then and only then is it really effective. It's so niche that I'm amazed people complain about it.
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Because, as basically everyone else has realised rather than insisting on maths that assumes the Killer finds it instantly every time, it has an outsized impact on how Killers have to play around it. Once CoH is up, dropping a chase after one hit is no longer an option: the injured Survivor is guaranteed to be able to heal if you don't stop them and healing the injured Survivor won't detract any from team time, and this is only amplified with other healing effects that are then being sped up.
It completely nullifies attritional gameplay because, if the Killer does break chase and goes to get the totem, not only is the injured Survivor not downed, they probably have enough time to be healed in other means anyway!
Plus CoH is just overtuned. Yes, it needs to do something better than other healing perks to make up for taking time to set up and having a limited area. Providing self-care and doubling all healing speeds making it better than anyone bringing any other healing perk and supercharging medkits was overboard.
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It doesn't though. The speed is the same speed as having someone else heal you. The 100% just removes the -50% penalty for self caring. That's it.
Unless someone else heals you, then it's like having We'll Make It active. I ran the boon for about three days after it came out, then just went back to self-care, botany, and a medkit. It's not reliable to keep the boon active and is less efficient for your time than just getting on a gen.
You also have to find a totem that someone else hasn't broken. There's just too many downsides to setting up the perk that self care just wins out logically. It's the same problem inner strength has. Useful if you were just breaking a totem anyway and had it ready, but not reliable. Again, too niche for me. Go ahead and ruin it.
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It's still only strong when the killer decides they are never going to snuff it out.. once you remove the totem, its effects are gone
But I think they do need to cap some perks so that only 1 person on the team can use them.
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It's the same speed as having someone else heal you, without that other person having to devote time to heal you. i.e., it's a net gain on Survivor time. Attritional play is dead whilst this is in its current form.
Like, you can insist that it's bad and niche and everyone else is wrong and it doesn't provide a huge effect for the team at low perk cost, but I think if killer mains, survivor mains, people who play both sides, and the majority of high-MMR streamers think it's too much at its current state and having deleterious effects on gameplay, the evidence is not in your favour.
We also haven't gotten even slightly into its interaction with vertical maps and buildings, which immediately shifts the time value massively in favour of using it. It's good and there are entire maps and areas that make it even better, which is just nuts.
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Has anyone see MoM or a key lately? We don’t want the same for COH
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Right, because people's thoughts and feeling always trump cold hard data. Oh wait...
Regardless. As I've said, go ahead and delete the perk. It has no effect on my play, because I don't run the perk or rely on it. Then you can get back to whining about dead hard and DS like normal.
Edit: I would agree that boons are busted on RPD.
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Nerf everything to the ground, all things are unfair and we want to play only blank games
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You'd need to provide data, and your anecdotal experiences don't outweigh everyone else's anecdotal experiences. Which only leaves us with some hard data for snuffing time and placement time but those are under ideal conditions.
If the totem is ideally located and easily found then yes, a Killer may indeed win on time efficiency if they snuff it every time it goes up, before it's used for healing--but they rarely aren't that ideally located. The audio cue is also much smaller than the actual radius of the totem, which increases the time to find it. Then RPD, the Game, numerous main buildings etc. all allow placing totems in very safe spots that take too long to traverse.
If a boon totem is used once (assuming that bones would have been done eventually because of Noed or Ruin or other Hexes), then it's saved 2s of Survivor heal time. If it's used twice, then it's saved 18s of Survivor time (either one person could stay on gens or faster than self-care). Then multiplicative stacking etc up to and including mid-chase heals.
And if it gets the benefit of being placed in some secure building spot, then it's a net gain on survivor time every time the killer goes up to it, just because killer traversal time is worth four times as much as survivor traversal time. Unless someone is dead, but I thought we wanted to avoid tunnelling as a necessary strategy. That's assuming it's put in the same spot and they don't check the wrong place first.
So if we want to rely on numerical analysis, then the Killer only gains time from boon totems under ideal circumstances. Every other interaction with it is an increasing time gain for Survivors... again, even without its effect being used. And because of how powerful CoH's effect is against attritional gameplay, it makes ignoring boons or breaking bad chases suboptimal.
It's one perk that simply does too much.
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Yeah i was on the team that said boons were fine (and i still think they are as a whole) but after finally playing some survivor games with them i felt dirty with the stuff i could get away with.
Never had that much issue as a killer but when playing survivor it's very overtuned.
I think just lowering the healing speed is enough though. Changing it to 33% means you heal yourself in 24 seconds and others in 12. That's still very good but a lot more managable
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What anecdote? Do math. Time to find a totem. Time to boon it. Time to heal. That already is larger than the 32 seconds a self care takes without bonuses like a medkit or botany knowledge.
Again, the numbers only work out in CoH's favor if the totem is nearby and ignored by the killer. Of the totem is set up on the other side of the map, you could have self cared in the time it took to run there and then heal.
These aren't subjective "feelings". It's cold, hard numbers that don't give an eff about your feelings on the matter. If all four ran self care, it would, the majority of the time, be more efficient with time than to use CoH. Spend more time on gens.
So again, go ahead and delete the perk so we can go back to eyerolling over the dead hard and decisive strike complaints.
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The numbers work out in CoH's favour even if the totem isn't ignored by the killer, because it manages to be a timesink for the Killer†. Time to travel to the affected area is also generally in its favour because of the sheer radius of the things (~1/4 map coverage most of the time, IIRC) and simply not doing it right next to the Killer anyway. In fact, we can easily work out the maths on when travel time to the totem area is less efficient than on-the-spot self-care: if you're within 64m of the thing (16*4m), or ~36m without running. Consider that the boon totem covers 24m radius, and most maps are not, in fact, 112m across except from corner to corner, and the travel time is actually in favour of travelling to the boon in almost all cases. We can't factor in travel from the healing area to gens because that's inconsistent and you might have to do that anyway, or there might be one near the boon that was left for later etc.
Therefore, doing maths empirically suggests that CoH is more efficient than running self-care. It's also more perk efficient (you don't take 4 perk slots for the effect and therefore two people can bring other perks), allows for everyone to bring toolboxes and still self-heal (more item and gen efficient) or flashlights (more annoyance efficient).
† We could roughly graph this by working out how far both the killer and the survivor were from the totem when they went to boon/snuff it, assuming perfect pathing in each case. But it's a moot point because if you're more than about 12m away to start with, it's already way more survivor time efficient, and it's only audible within those ~12m. Killers incidentally snuffing boons that they happen to come across after a chase or hooking someone is the only situation they aren't wasting ungodly time chasing them.
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While i agree that boons in general are a big time sink you so have to factor in that the boon only needs to be setup once and is then usable untill snuffed. Which isn't always feasable.
So while yes boons have a big time cost alongside them CoH blows Selfcare completly out of the water and it's not even close. Just the fact that it's a single perk slot vs 4 slots already puts selfcare to shame
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Anyone who doesn't think this perk isn't broken is either abusing it or delusional. It's so disgustingly overpowered and bad for the game, the fact it hasn't been addressed yet is honestly pretty disappointing by the devs.
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i would make it so each survivor can only heal 1 or 2 times per CoH boon totem. And then nerf the boons in general so that you can only place 2/3/4 per match depending on rarity
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