Asking the dev team to actually do something about the BM at exit gates #1
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That is a different issue. Hacking is cheating and ruins the entire game. Not the same.
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It doesn't for me? I don't care if there's a hacker in my game. It's so rare it barely happens. And again, it's in every game. Legit if you dislike hackers, try single player offline games. See I can be dismissive about issues that bother you but don't affect me. Fun, huh? I'd MUCH rather deal with hackers every 5 or so matches over tbagging children every game. Hackers exist in every game so if you expect people to just deal with BM I don't see why you shouldn't be expected to deal with hackers especially when it hasn't affected me at all as I never see them. Your posts issue is you basically are lacking empathy and are incapable of seeing why for some reason. Don't expect anyone to have empathy for your issues in return is all.
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Paragraph one. I personally know what it's like to be sexually victimized as a child over several years. So you can shuffle that card back in the deck. If you draw connections to anything and everything that could possibly in anyway set off a victim then dbd needs to be deleted. What if a doctor or a clown sexually assaulted someone? Ffs clown is a reference to John Wayne Gayce. Freddy is a pedophile. Trapper and leather face were abused. Huntress kidnapped, abused and murdered children. Need I go on? So much in this game would do the trick long, long, long before what you are insisting.
Paragraph two. Intent is meaningless without context and severity. By your logic someone willing to work hard in school to get a good job is no better the someone willing to lie cheat and steal to get a good job as both of their intents are to get a good job. I've seen this pathetic excuse time and time again, mostly with people comparing stream sniping to blaming people for being a victim of sexual violence.
And finally, because you can't seem to get this through your head. Paragraph 3.
I AM CRITICIZING YOU FOR YOUR CHOICE TO IN ANYWAY CONNECT RACISIM AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE TO BEING RUDE. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS DEFENDING BEING RUDE. JUST BECAUSE I WONT CONSIDER AN IMPOLITE CHILD TO BE ANYTHING CLOSE TO A NAZI DORSNT MEAN I THINK THEIR BEHAVIOUR IS OKAY.
Shockingly it's almost as if I have some kinda of personal experiences that make it clear to see how much ######### different one is from the other. Not that it matters right?
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Not the same thing.
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Is to me, sorry. But going by your posts in other threads, it's pretty obvious why think it's okay and make excuses for it. Not much more to talk about here.
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Still not the same. Fine with me. Have a good day/night.
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I'm pushing 50.
I started gaming on arcade machines and playing chess on ancient green and black monitors.
You're strawmanning.
In the context of what we are discussing, there is no difference between yelling a slur at someone and deliberately belching in their face (following your own example).
In both cases, you are acting in a deliberately nasty manner to make someone else unhappy for your own personal enjoyment.
That is the long and short of it.
The core issue is that toxicity propagates outwards.
Someone BMs me in games 1 and 2, so I go into games 3 through 10 out to hurt people. Which gives them a miserable experience, leading them to be BM - and on it goes, ad infinitum.
Tit for tat is one of the most powerful human responses.
Honestly, I'm inclined not to believe you - because your conduct on the forums (ranging from being disingenuously contrarian to deliberate, Sluzzy-esque flamebaiting minus the self parody) does indicate either a tendency towards extracting enjoyment from annoying people or a blistering lack of self awareness. Not trying to be mean, just saying what I've observed. There is a reason why a lot of people lose their temper with you, Iron.
That said...this is true of a lot of people who engage in toxic behavior. They aren't even really aware of it anymore - which is why a warning system can be so effective at letting them know 'hey, you are spoiling things for a lot of people - knock it off'.
And see - that's the thing. It's not a matter of being 'offended' (lets not bring that culture war crap into this) - it's a matter of sportsmanship. Having a decent, sportsmanlike community or at least building your game towards encouraging this is what determines whether you end up as League of Legends or Smite.
But I'm always amazed at how much effort people will spend shifting the blame...rather than just mannering up.
I've actually suggested something closer to the Overwatch 'endorsement' system, where you'd be able to give good, non-toxic opponent some sort of reward.
You're...either totally missing or deliberately trying to twist what Sherbert was trying to say.
Let me see if I can paraphrase here:
Just because something happens in an online game and is almost possible to completely prevent does not mean that you shouldn't bother trying - because both hacking and toxicity make your game a lot less enjoyable for a ton of people.
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It's a non-issue. I can't believe people get upset at a video game character bouncing up and down... Like I've already said before- I don't care what strangers think about me. It's completely fine if you don't believe me. People who get hurt so easily shouldn't play online games.
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Taunting and BM's are apart of any game. I think people don't understand is those that do it is because they themselves expect the same treatment, it's how those players have fun. You live by the tea bag, you die by the tea bag. There is also the fact that it sets people off, some people want those reactions and by making posts condemning those players you are giving them what they want. You are telling them that the trolling and BM's are having there intended effect.
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It's a non issue because, to be frank, you are either toxic yourself or numbed.
BM is BM, whether it's refusing to shake hands after a hard-fought rugby match or teabagging someone after a hard-fought round of DbD. The difference is that one would get you benched/fined and one will be openly defended.
And again, I love how you try to shift the blame here. 'People should be able to act like poisonous butts in a videogame and if you don't like it, that's your fault' is such an...odd hill to die on.
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"The core issue is that toxicity propagates outwards.
Someone BMs me in games 1 and 2, so I go into games 3 through 10 out to hurt people. Which gives them a miserable experience, leading them to be BM - and on it goes, ad infinitum.
Tit for tat is one of the most powerful human responses."
Yep fully agreed. I've been through that myself, end up playing more than a few rounds of Basement Bubba to spread the hate which I received.
I think during times like a pandemic and quarantine, when gaming might be one of the most significant interactions many people have on a given day, it's a shame that this happens as well.
I'm kind of glad you admitted that though, as I was wondering why I was doing that myself.
It gets to a point where you go into a game thinking everyone is out to be hurtful, and just actively disliking Survivors in general. Which makes me understand why these forums and any online DBD discussion basically devolves to a massive flame war between the Killer main and Survivor main armies.
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I also have some experiences I will not get into that make this personal for me. I had a much longer response but I'm just going to say this. I'm very sorry over what happened to you but you are not making any attempt to understand why this could be triggering to someone else who had similar problems. That's fine; people respond differently. However, teabagging is not cool and the excuses being used to defend making someone else feel miserable are the exact same being used to defend slurs and ethnic jokes that made my family feel miserable. That is also not cool.
I do not feel the majority of people who teabag are condoning sexual violence or racism. They are, however, using the same excuses that were used to excuse racism to defend their behaviour which is victim blaming. It can also be triggering to people who have experienced sexual violence. They either don't know or don't understand (which happens) or they're too selfish to care. Whether you make that association or not because of your experiences is valid for you; it is not how someone else will react and their reaction is equally valid. Nobody controls how someone else reacts and everyone has to work through terrible experiences in their own way.
In the end, everyone is playing a video game and we want to have fun. I know you don't condone teabagging or being rude but it can have problematic associations for other people and it's better to speak out against toxic behaviour than imply that people should just get over it (a stance that I'm not sure since I don't know you but I think you might agree with).
This discussion is getting a bit heated so I'm going to step back. If you want to please consider my point (or not as you prefer) and I hope you have a good night (and I apologize for implying this post would be short; I obviously lost that somewhere).
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The sad thing, if you are actually being serious, is that your genuine response to people being unpleasant is, rather than people should try to not be unpleasant, people should stay away from activities/areas/communities which they might otherwise enjoy because they should have to be able to bear the people being unpleasant.
Feels like you are shifting the blame to the wrong side.
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It's not likely to change. Crouching is needed in this game, so t-bagging probably isn't going anywhere. If someone is getting this upset about it, then it's time to move on. Maybe play offline games or something. It's just ridiculous.
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The fact you keep insisting I am defending someone being rude or a jerk is proof you aren't reading anything I'm typing. You're fake compassion is unneeded and unwanted.
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You don't want to taunt a good deathslinger. He will reel you back in quick. Run blood warden with a mixed of remember me and no way out.
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They have... Blood warden.
Blood warden+noed if you wanna bm at the gate😃
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Comparing being teabagged in a video game to racism is a bit of a stretch.
Instead of making this about race you could just acknowledge that it’s a video game and they are random people spamming a crouch animation. They don’t know who you are or what you look like, it’s not personal, and the only power it has over you is the power you grant it.
Pretty much every multiplayer game has this kind of thing, and it’s not healthy to let it affect you like that.
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I've seen this happen to some of my teammates before. Good times, lol.
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For the first time I agree with an IronKnight post. It's not likely to change, indeed.
But it still could, and if we have an attitude like "if you can't deal with it, play another game", then it definitely won't change.
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It's different though, on Halo if someone can shut out my entire team and get 40 kills, they earn my respect and they can teabag all they like. That takes skill, and they are clearly levels above to be able to have such a kill gap.
In DBD you get people teabagging because they dropped a pallet, or 4 people teabagging because they managed to all escape from a new Killer who didn't get a single hook.
Not the same.
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I mean this in the most constructive way possible: when you get BMd, grow a set and move on
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I agree. Unfortunately, some people can't move on. This is something that happens in a lot of online games. Getting upset is exactly what these people want. Ignore them.
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I also wanted to elaborate on my earlier post by stating that toxicity in a game is very subjective. I for example have not only have become numb to it but embraced it which has caused me ironically to have more fun in the games I play so when someone is toxic to me in game It gives me a good laugh.
For example I had a game on Springwood Vs a Wraith. Had some solid chases, got alot of saves and did 2 gens while taunting the killer throughout the game. By endgame the Wraith used Noed on a Felix I tbagged there BBQ and they downed me shortly there after since I was in a dead zone and then they BM'd me back which is fair game.
As killer I got a Haddonfield game and I was Pig. The survivors tbagged most of the game but I finished with a 2 K while Tbagging them in return. Both games are what I'd consider very fun interactions between both sides, I don't expect others to agree with that since again what is defined as interesting and fun gameplay is very subjective and I assume many killers in the community would find my definition of fun as problematic which would only serve to futher amuse me and give me more motivation to play that way.
My point is that fun itself is subjective and so is toxicity. PvP games often are fun at the expense of another player and some games are going to exemplify that more then others. It all depends on what you consider fun at the end of the day.
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Or...you know, people could stop acting like jerks?
What exactly does 'livelihood' have to do with this anyway?
I understand what he's saying.
When you defend something objectively negative, there are usually 3 possibilities:
- You indulge in that thing yourself.
- You are being contrarian for the sake of arguing.
- You lack empathy and that negative thing doesn't effect you personally.
Pings are needed in LoL. Emotes are needed in LoL. Ping spamming and emote spamming are both straight up bannable.
It's easy for a reasonable person to differentiate between someone crouching and someone being a jerk.
Flashlight spam is imho a bigger issue because that strobing gives me a headache at times and I've only got very mild photosensitivity issues.
People can't just choose to not be upset any more than people can choose not to be depressed or frightened.
Human neurochemistry doesn't work that way.
Of course, reasonableness does come into it - but I don't think it's unreasonable to not want a less toxic community, especially when people have made endless suggestions of how to do this.
Anything prefaced with 'I mean this in the x way possible' is shorthand for 'I want to say something meant in the opposite way but I don't want to get called out in it'. It's a debate tactic called shielding and yes, it's fallacious.
I'd much rather say 'grow a set and manner the hell up'.
I've suggested turning the upvote into something that could award people BP, but it would be up to the opponent whether you get it or not.
Others have suggested a system similar to Overwatch's 'endorsement' system, which would also be a pretty elegant solution.
If it was up to me, I'd bring the LoL Tribunal to DbD...but I'm a grumpy old dad who grew up in a generation where being a massive jerk wasn't somehow defended as a good thing.
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Yes, you've pushed through numbness into what I could only describe as a sort of masochism. That's...not good either.
And sure, all 'toxicity' is subjective because all meaning in human language and most body-language is subjective. That doesn't mean that human language or body-language are meaningless though. And most people, even people who claim that it doesn't bother them...are still bothered by jerks, bullies and the like. Either that or they disassociate (numbness), or even push through this into masochism or antisocial behavior themselves.
It's easy for a reasonable person to spot the line too.
The best example I can think of was one of my first jobs (a...very, very long time ago). I worked at a local gym.
We were having a lot of problems keeping new members, and after the owners followed up with people who hadn't come back, it turned out that there were 4 or 5 regulars who were constantly insulting newcomers, calling them fat/weak/girly etc. and telling them to stop wasting everyone's time and just leave - generally when they wanted to use the equipment the newcomers were.
The managers were told (yay) to confront these chaps - who responded much as other posters here, saying 'oh they just need to grow a set and ignore us, stop taking everything so personally'. They also threatened to leave themselves and tell their buddies not to come back if we didn't leave them alone.
However, the owner was savvy enough to realize that it was better to lose a few regulars now than lose potentially dozens of new customers who were put off by the jerks. He ended up politely inviting them to find a new place to work out.
A year later and our attendance was up 18% if I recall correctly.
Now - apply this logic to a videogame.
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Honestly, the big problem with the survivor vs killer toxicity in DBD boils down to the fact that, as killer, you're playing as a mute. It's not like other games where there's an equal amount of expression. I think if the devs added derogatory emotes for the killer, this wouldn't be an issue.
Aside from that though, it's rather aggravating that some losers will literally hold the game hostage for as long as the timer lets them. Killers should have the option to cut endgame short and just let everyone escape immediately. If the devs insist on keeping hook suicides, then killers should also get a way to cut matches short without receiving a DC penalty.
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Here's an article discussing its history, current usage, etc and the different implications between using it with strangers and using it between a group of friends who thinks it's okay. It also covers its similarity to another term that was previously used heavily in competitive gaming which, fortunately, has been mostly outgrown and is no longer used.
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Nah mate, if you don't understand how to differentiate between rudeness and harassment, you're the one who cant be helped lol
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First of all is being rude for no reason any better?
And second if you are rude just cause you can to this extent its harassment
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As someone who has often been on the receiving end of harassment and racial abuse both irl online, yes in-game rudeness in the form of innocuous character movements is a million times nicer than being maliciously and personally attacked. If this is the hill you're gonna die on so be it, but tea bagging is not and will never be considered egregious enough an action to be a bannable offence.
TL;DR Unsportsmanlike conduct =/= abuse & harassment.
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It's so funny watching people madly defend BM like their lives depend on it
If it was taken out of the game it would simply be better, there is no con to doing so besides jackasses not being able to act like stupid pricks anymore. Only one group suffers because of it and NO ONE should care about that group.
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Buddy I know that irl bullieng is worse I'm not stupid but give me one good reason why we should accept it in game. And I don't talk about a ban that would really be do harsh but just hinder them give a crushing block if you crush 20times a minute that wouldn't even effect gameplay cause why and when did you need to do this in a manner that contributes to the game
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It’s not gonna happen. Crouching is very important in this game and they aren’t going to change it because some people get upset. It’s a game. You guys should not be playing these types of games if little things like t-bagging upsets you. No, I don’t do it myself... but I’m not going to let that stuff bother me.
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Oh please, spare me. If you act dumb at the exit gate you deserve to lose, don't wanna get hit by a huntress hatchet? Stand next to the damn edge. This would change nothing gameplay wise and you know it.
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Do you even play survivor?
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I do. Not once have I ever felt the need to crouch besides maybe dodging a ranged attack... that I wouldn't need to dodge if I walked left, right, or stood near the edge of the gate.
You argue for nothing.
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Seriously?
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Whut
Have you never been chased by a killer with projectiles? Or hid behind a low wall? In the bushes? Are you being serious?
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People aren't going to stop being jerks, there are too many people with sad, ineffectual little lives whose only chance to lord anything over anyone ever is at the exit gates in DBD. Pity these people.
And starting threads like this letting them know who much it irks you is only going to encourage more of it.
Behavioral modification 101: if there is a behavior you want to curtail, don't reward it. Even negative attention is attention, and whingeing about it like this is rewarding it.
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Simple solution: ignore it.
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T-bagging can be incredebilly frustrating and humiliating. I agree with that.
Thing is that it's in human nature to cause eachother suffering. Especially if they can do it anonymously.
There is no escaping this and there is nothing you can do to stop it. We are just wired this way.
We need to set boundaries for what's right and what's wrong to still be able to survive but you need to build up some mental fortitude. You can't fully stop people from hurting eachother.
If t-bagging really triggers you so much you need to find a way to process and deal with it. Cause you will have a mental breakdown if something actual serious happens.
Much like having to eat healthier if your immune system is failing. Diseases won't hold back if you are struggling with your health. The natural toxic human behaviour won't either. So you need to find a way to shield yourself from that danger. Cause it won't go away on it's own
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Play Ghost Face, and T-bag them back. I did that once, they literally got salty because of it lmao
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I find being told I am strawmanning offensive. You are clearly acting in a deliberately nasty manner for your own amusement. That's just the long and short of it.
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I’m pretty neutral on this. I personally couldn’t give a damn if someone tbags me in an online video game. I’ve played online video games throughout my life so I’ve gotten used to it.
If being tbagged or clicked in dbd bothers you so much why don’t you just wait it the basement or start breaking walls or pallets?
In saying this endgame chat abuse and racism/sexism and homophobia are a completely different story and should be taken extremely serious
Post edited by Phasmamain on1 -
Also, never defended it. In fact I typed it in big bold letters. But that would require actually reading what someone else said and I can't expect that from you.
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And you should probably stop giving so many people contra just for the sake of it and call it your opinion. (Still love you for as it always makes for an interesting read).
It's funny how you tell so many people they simply should not care but you yourself feel inclined to hold against their opinion so much that you repeatedly argue with multiple people.
So maybe take your own advice and stop caring when we don't like something and ignore us. 😂 Of course I know you won't since I can't forbid you from "voicing your opinion" but the same goes for us all in this thread.
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But damn i see like only 4-5 people in this thread that seem to have had an upbringing with getting taught some manners and stick to them even hidden behind an online alias.
Way too many people let themselves go once consequences are of the table thanks to online anonymity.
Edit: oh and also i hope that none of the people that say "deal with it/ignore it/grow thicker skin" get ever offended by hitting on hook, camping,tunneling or slugging. 2 of those even hold in game efficiency.
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can't believe how many people seriously get offended with people teabagging/ flashlight clicking like those survivors are horrible people. Some of you probably should be staying away from online games like Ironknight said.
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Same principle as flipping someone off in El sports, only that the offender there gets some form of penalty which is absent in video games thanks to online anonymity.
Old people like us still got taught some manners, see the similarities and think that such rude behaviour should not be condoned and instead of telling the offended to "deal with it", we would love it if the offender would get some consequences for their (however subjective significant) actions.
Also i would call people that taunt behind pallets or in the exit cowards. They can only show balls if they feel save, behind a pallet, at the exit line or in general behind an online alias.
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