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Why do people hate toxic survivors bming at the exit gates so much?
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Why are insults insults? They're just words, right? Yet they work. Being toxic at the gates is just so easy for survivor players to do, because there is nothing the killer can do to counter it. Yes, you can smack them out, but that doesn't change the fact that they're rubbing it in your face. How you handle it is up to the player, but again. An insult is an insult, no matter the form. It's especially effective when the adrenaline is pumping.
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I think its because its unnecessary.
If you are in the exit gate and everybody else is there then just leave.
Most killers are maxed out on chase points by then so the most you can get is from hits but that's only if the survivors even give you a hit or just DH/run out the door to troll you.
Its another example of negative player interaction that eats up time.
I have no qualms about chasing people out the gate and I don't care if people want to mash buttons on their equipment in a effort to make me feel bad because hey I don't. So go ahead, mash your buttons and lay the groundwork for your late age RSI.
Often though I use the time survivors stand waiting out the EGC to spam my power / break walls and pallets / find and close the hatch.
You can farm a bunch of blood points ignoring them, more rewardingly so if they are all healthy and just standing there not earning any points themselves, it makes it a truely pointless activity... HAH see what I did there!
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If you're going to compare DBD to sports, I think a more proper comparison of a normal DBD match would be backyard basketball (or any sport really) with all the neighborhood teens/kids.
It's nice if everyone gets along for sure but to expect no taunting after Jerry sunk a sick 3-pointer for the win is unrealistic. Not that I'm condoning that kind of behavior either but I think it works as a better comparison to DBD then a normal sports match.
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I'm not sure what it is like now, but anyone that started gloating and trash talking after they won a pickup game (that they were somehow allowed to bring a full team of ringers to...but that's another discussion) in my day would never have been invited to play again. That's if they didn't get a bit of a smack from someone.
This is actually something that worries me about the current generation growing up. I'm not sure it's healthy to teach kids that you can get enjoyment out of making other people miserable with zero consequences in their hobby of choice. I know that if I caught our son doing this, he'd be spending the rest of the weekend doing yardwork instead of playing videogames.
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It happens EVERY game, I honestly can't remember the last time a group didn't BM when they escaped. And at least one of them ALWAYS stays until the last second if I afk when gates open.
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"Why do people hate rude nasty people?" really pondering the questions of the ages here
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I'm 31 now but as a kid smack talk during and after a game was pretty common and all in good fun. After the game everyone would hang out and grab food or what not and just chill. No one would ever hold grudges and it's not like anyone was friends either. It was just neighborhood kids hanging out playing a game.
Maybe growing up with that has made me more numb or less empathetic but I have a hard time understanding why people hold on to the negative emotions from BM. I completely get being annoyed in the first place but when people hold onto it for hours or even longer instead of just letting it go or finding and outlet to make then feel better, that I don't understand.
It's a tough topic though. I don't think one should teach kids to be happy over someones misery by any means but at the same time, it's important for people to learn how to cope with negative emotions as well as negative people/experiences. Should one learn/experience that as a kid or an adult? Personally, I'm happy I experienced it as a kid as trying to learn how to cope with negativity as an adult while having very little experience with it is a rather scary thought to me.
Sorry, I'm getting a bit off topic now and it's delving more into human psychology which I'm hardly qualified to properly talk about.
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Ah, see - there's a difference between a bit of banter between mates/people who know each other and doing the same sort of taunting with strangers. It's why I used the pickup game example.
As always, context is king.
Honestly, kids get enough experience dealing with nastiness in the schoolyard as is. A hobby should be something where people can go and relax to get away from the chuds and bullies, not another area where you have to waste mental energy fortifying yourself.
Amusingly enough, my original field is psychology (well, criminology) and I currently work in education. I see a lot of kids really struggling with this stuff - it's not really matter of being 'tough', it's just a very human response to encountering someone being a jerk in a something that you retreat to after a hard day of dealing with jerks.
I must say that it gets under my skin after a while too. This game is frustrating enough sometimes without also being gloated at by a full SWF with 10x your hours played and a Haddonfield offering.
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In principle, they are the same. It's the winning party extending the match to gloat. Even if it is true that the killer can put a quick stop to it while a survivor is completely helpless.
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Thank you for clarifying that; I do appreciate it and I hope you have a great day.
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It only annoys me when it's a survivor that did nothing the entire match.
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While that element is true, that still doesn't mean that they are the same. In principle, maybe, but in actuality, bms at the exits is nothing nearly as frustrating or time wasting.
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You too buddy!
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I can see that, showboating when you didn't earn it can definitely be annoying to others.
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That's very fair.
I had typed out a few different responses explaining my opinion on some things but I deleted them as I realized it's not quite what I wanted to say or at least how I wanted to say it.
At the end of the day I think it's simply a different mindset on the issue. I can understand that it is a problem but I don't understand why it's a problem. I think that's the best way I can word how I feel without going on a long-winded explanation.
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Fair enough.
My major consideration aside from my own personal enjoyment of the game (which is definitely effected by toxicity to some degree) is on retention of newer players.
There's a reason, I think, that this has suddenly become a hot-button issue right when the Epic promotion happened. A lot of newcomers came in not expecting people in this game to be as nasty and meanspirited as they can be (considering the hyper-progressive image of BHVR and the out of game community in general) and were put off by it.
This is definitely a concern - much as with LoL back in the day, a toxic community can start to stifle growth as it's hard enough being a newbie without constantly being taunted and belittled for it.
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if I was fair as possible and followed your dumb a*s rulebook and you have the audacity to bm at gate, then shame on you. you guys are the first one to complain about how a killer acts but straight up will do that lol
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Pardon? I'm pretty dang sure I've said this enough times but I DO NOT BM NOR DO I CONDONE IT NO MATTER WHICH SIDE IT IS! If I was that stupid to make this post and be someone who actually does bm you think I would be acting a little differently.
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That at least serves a purpose - it cuts the scream short so you can hear stuff nearby sooner.
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Well usually one of the few things that could annoy people is.
1) Having the fact that you lost rubbed in your face is probably not fun for people. Especially when more than 2 people escape.
2) Not every single Survivor gives the killer last hit some of them legitimately only stay there so the killer can see the bm and them walking out. ( don't assume that every survivors going to give you a free hit)
3) Sometimes the killer wants to get into another game rather quickly they don't want to have to sit around and wait for Claud and Nea to treat the match like the Boston Harbour and start throwing tea bags. ( keep in mind especially if you're not in the mood to actually go over there some survivors will wait until the last possible second to leave)
Is bm at the exit gates of massive problem ? No. There are way bigger problems than that
Do I personally find it annoying ? No. you want to waste your time bming you could do that whilst I'll head to the basement then make myself a sandwich.
Can I at least very much understand why it does annoy the hell out of people ? Yes. And those people were completely valid in being annoyed by it ( I know there are some survivors who get annoyed if the Killer nods after downing them or give them one smack on hook before continuing with the game)
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I think the big difference is that when a killer BMs through things such as hard tunneling or face camping that it forcibly removes that player out of the match usually with no points and considerable time wasted after que + match time. If a player is being face camped on a hook at 5 gens the match is pretty much sealed for the player being focused, a basement camping Bubba is probably going to secure that kill at minimum and in solo que lobbies it's entirely too common for teammates to overcommit to the unhook when gens could be flying by resulting in a match with multiple kills rather than one. If you get unhooked and the killer tunnels you over and over until you're out of the match you just wasted a huge amount of time without having any sort of rebuttal and there's unfortunately no current mechanics to deal with that while it's written off as a "losing strategy," for the killer, which it is, while the victim gets no justice.
Survivors BMing on the other hand in the case of tea bagging at the gate is surely ill mannered but doesn't force the killer out of the match as the match is already won although it does potentially hold them in the match for up to 4 minutes as is being argued. I can understand why a killer wouldn't want to run across the map to force the tea bagging survivors out of the match but the fact remains that they at least have the option to end the match after the outcome has been determined where survivors are at the mercy of the killer and cannot leave the match without incurring a strict penalty or sabotaging their team. An exception to this would be veteran SWF's versus a killer of much less skill that is essentially at the mercy of the survivors due to being unable to effectively do anything to them which while less common is still encountered
Now that doesn't justify survivors exhibiting bad manners but just goes to show how different the results are from both sides, on one hand survivors can't kill the killer so you have to consider that there's only so many BM things they can do and they can't be discredited due to the asymmetrical nature of the game. To be honest the worst thing survivors can do to the killer is hold the match hostage through sheer outplaying where the skill gap doesn't allow the killer to accomplish anything.
Post edited by socalfusions on0 -
Maybe same to you and ignoring their complaints?
Just scroll beyond the thread that seemingly aggravates you.
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Only topped by trying to get the hit for extra points as a killer only to get dh dodged at the last second to deny you further.
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Younger folk have been conditioned through social engineering to rely on the state to fix any uncomfortable feelings they may experience, instead of learning to deal with these feelings themselves.
This spills over into computer games, so when someone is teabagged, they expect the state (BHVR in this case) to fix the uncomfortable feeling for them.
A consequence of social media and political correctness gone mad.
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Could you please elaborate?
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I do not care about BM at the exit gate. But if you tbag me in the trial as Ghostface I will tbag you back. If you clicker your flashlight, I will give you my attention and if you point I will hit you on the hook. "Bad Manner" is just a way to get into your opponents head and two can play that game. Most players lose their cool when I act that way to their BM and make the match much easier for me.
I somehow enjoy it when somebody clickers his flashlight while trying to bodyblock me with Borrow Time only to wait out their BT and putting them back at the hook. Most players then cry about "tunneling" just enhancing my enjoyment at their misery.
However I do respect players who want to get my attention by flickering their flashlight when I chase their weaker teammate. Most of them just flicker for attention and then run and play normally. This is perfectly valid as they take one for the team. I can respect that and most times I go for them usually getting me a good chase.
Another kind of player is funny and gives me a tbag contest at the pallet as Ghosty. I enjoy that. Same at the exit gate where most players just do it to get me to tbag back at them. Not every tbag is a bad manner...hard to tell sometimes.
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But even so, I’ve seen countless amounts of complaint after complaint of people crying about toxic survivors tbagging and flashlight clicking in the exits during endgame. I do not care that so many survivors do this, I just care about the people complaining about it!
Your words. Why should you care about anyone complaining about survivor BM. (Why should you care?)
Just move on and ignore their threads. Scroll beyond them. (Push them out)
Just a little analogy that your whole thread is the same as what you are complaining about.
A complaint about something you yourself could just ignore but chose not to.
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Yeah, I guess that is pretty hypocritical. Good point.
I’ll try to avoid those threads moving on and “following my own advice”.
Thanks for pointing that out!
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But my point still stands.
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Eh...
I'm an old fart and fondly remember the days before everything had automated matchmaking.
If people were BM back then, you could just write their ID down somewhere and just kick them from your lobby if they tried to join your games again or avoid their lobbies. Communities were self policing for the most part, whether it be at the individual level or server level. If you became widely known as a jerk, you'd struggle to find people willing to play with you. If you were known as a skilled, fun and mannered individual, your lobbies would fill instantly.
Now, there's zero accountability. I'm more worried about how kids are being conditioned to enjoy making others miserable with zero consequences.
It's essentially the Wild West versus modern times. In the Wild West, I couldn't go to the sheriff, but if I had a problem I had the...tools to fix it myself. Now I have to rely on the cops.
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Well, when I think of a solution, the only thing that comes to mind that could actually work is a better report system.
What do you think you would do to solve the issue?
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There are multiple reasons to crouch in the exits besides bming though. Mostly like dodging powers like huntress or deathslinger. They can’t just disable a core mechanic just because some people use it to make others frustrated.
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It could be awesome if after a few minutes after the exit gates getting open, if survivors stay there camping too long the exit gates just shut down and teleport them to a hook 😆
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That would be amazing but probably won’t happen. :(
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Lets not forget once more that Devs are main survivors and their new objective is nerf good killers 😅
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Standing in the exit gate is one thing. I do it all the time for these reasons:
1.) Just to make sure all the other survivors left get out safely. If a wounded survivor is running toward me chased by the killer and I'm not wounded (and there's no NOED), I can take a protection hit for them.
2.) Possibly get more Altruism for healing someone or letting someone heal me.
3.) Give the killer a free hit/power use so they get more BP.
But clicking and teabagging in the exit gate is 100% different.
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yea thats why kindred basekit needs to be a thing. still have NO idea why it isnt
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I've suggested this in another thread.
Some sort of endorsement/rewards system - postgame, you can give your opponents (note: not teammates) a 'thumbs up' which will reward them with some bonus BP. Maybe some cosmetics at certain breakpoints.
This would incentivize being mannered.
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At the end of the day it’s a video game and we’re talking about things like spamming a crouch animation.
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Yes, it's a video game.
Gaming has become, at least in the developed world, probably as popular among young people as sports are, if not more.
We generally try to teach youngsters how to be gracious winners and non-salty losers in sports - and there's a good reason for this. It helps them substantially later in life.
Why shouldn't video games get the same treatment?
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I’d say codling the younger generation to such an extreme degree can only set them up for failure. If they aren’t able to cope with random strangers spamming a crouch animation in a video game, especially to the extent that they need it to be removed, they may not be able to deal with all manner of things later in life.
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Interesting.
I'd say that allowing kids to be jerks without consequences is way more 'coddling' than teaching them about sportsmanship and discipline.
I'm an educator and I see it in schooling too - in my day, pushing a kid down the stairs would likely have gotten you expelled or at least caned. Now it gets you candy and counselling. Cheating would probably have meant a month of detention - now it gets you free extra classes and a 'special' test. A few years ago I got a reprimand for bawling a teenager out in class and making them stand outside, as this was dubbed as 'unfairly singling them out and not being sufficiently respectful of their feelings'. The kid threw a pencil case at the back of my head because I told him to stop eating in class.
Millennials are already more apathetic and less empathetic than even Gen X was (the data on this is...legitimately scary) and I can only imagine what the next generation is going to be like.
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As for the answer to the question raised of "why don't you go force them out", it's because Survivors who do this create a Morton's fork: if you don't go over to the exit gates, then the BM is holding you in the game when you want to move on; if you go over to the exit gates, they will get to taunt you.
Tbh, another solution would just be an "exit game" option once the gates have been opened. Know you've lost? You can leave now, it's fine. Probably similar thing with increasing bleed-out timers if nobody can do anything about it.
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only time i leave a survivor on ground to bleed out is if they are the cocky one usually a flashlight clicker who doesnt do gens and only chases me around wanting to be chased, then i ask if they enjoyed their time wasted, doing a survey they get so mad
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This is a video game though. Every multiplayer game has this kind of thing for a variety of reasons, not all of which are even “toxic.”
Put everything into perspective and it’s really no big deal. The people are random strangers. Some just messing around, others trying to get a reaction. If we’re taking about setting standards for the younger generations, it should be that teabagging in a video game is just that, and even though it can feel personal, the healthiest reaction is to see it for what it is and move on.
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Yeah I don't think we are going to agree on this.
To me, encouraging arbitrary nastiness to strangers without any fear of repercussions is far more damaging to a developing psyche. We should be encouraging empathy and consideration, not the opposite. This is something I've tried hard to raise my own kids towards, and I think it's paid dividends thus far.
And, sure. It's a video game.
But video games weren't always like this. For most of gaming history, games were either played in the same room as others, or in a host/lobby/server system where jerks would quickly find themselves battling to get games, much as this would play out in other quasi-competitive social activities. Matchmaking and the lack of accountability that came with it is the problem.
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I only leave them to bleed out if I can't find them.
Where are you crawling off to and why
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Of course you'd do it in real life too, right? You're not a child psychologist and you should stop pretending you know anything about the subject. No psychiatrist or psychologist would recommend this "tough love" junk to anyone because they're pretty well understood to be extremely unhelpful for developing psyches. A basic book on psychology could teach this. Your belief doesn't have any basis in known studied science from what I can tell.
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Oh man, yeah.
People who crawl off to Narnia and end up bleeding out (then complain at you in postgame) are almost as bad as the 4man teams all playing the exact same skin who get up my snout about 'tunneling' them.
I'm not a child psychologist either (although I have studied it a fair amount while getting my psych and teaching degrees) and yeah - a lot of actual child psychologists are very concerned about the tendencies that arise out of modern gaming.
Forget the whole 'Mortal Kombat makes kids violent' crap of yesteryear (although the studies on this aren't as black and white as either side makes it out to be - they definitely at least increase violent ideations, if not actions) - it's the casual sadism and 'u mad' culture that's worrying. I was actually going to do a thread on this a while back, but nearly all of it is paywalled :|.
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Idk why some killers have a problem with toxic survivors. Just let then be. When I play against toxic one's I usually don't even chase them, they want attention and they won't get from me.
About tbagging or clicking flashlight at the gate, well, I think it became a meme at this point, If it gets you, I consider changing roles for a bit. If the team was a swf full of flashlight coordination,DS's, BT's and so on and I lose 4 people, I Just move away from the gates and look for things to gain more BP for me rather than giving Chase points for them.
And idk if it's because I play solo q on low mmr right now but killers tend to be way more toxic than survs imo. Facecamping on First hook, tunneling 3 times in a row and so on... But to each their own I guess.
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