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Why do all [SIDE] players only ever use meta perks?!
Yes, we know that it's boring. But there's a reason- the perks are meta because they cover up fundamental flaws in game design in a lot of cases.
There's a reason DS is so common- the second it's unequipped we're tunneled out of the game. There's a reason BT is so common- the second it's taken off we get facecamped.
There's also a reason why Corrupt is so common, or PGTW, or Ruin and Undying- because when they're taken off, the game suddenly decides to pair you with the best of the best known to mankind and- oh would you look at that, all gens are gone in 3 minutes who'd have thought.
The meta perks make the game longer for both sides, which is why they're meta- they're the best because they give the most amount of time actually inside of the game.
It's just frustrating, feeling so shoehorned into using the same perks every single game. I'd love to experiment with builds but I'm pushed into using the exact same ######### to stand a chance because wouldn't you have guessed it, the matchmaking doesn't let you use anything else because it doesn't work and one game you're facing sub-20 hour players, the next a 10k hour tournament squad
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I know the feeling... as soon as I take off Decisive Strike, I seem to have a target painted on my back and I get yeeted out promptly with <5k points. And when I don't use Pop Goes The Weasel, the gens seemingly take off into orbit.
I would love to see a few things implemented to take a little pressure off of the need to use meta perks. Base 5% regression on gen kicks would help tremendously, as well as map sizes in general being balanced. Some maps are far too large, with maps like Mother's Dwelling, Ironworks of Misery and Disturbed Ward being nearly impossible to patrol effectively. And for Survivors... I'm not sure. I would at least like for DS to not permanently deactivate if you miss it the first time, so you can use it on your second hook as well.
On a side note (and I know I'll be attacked for this), the sad thing about Killer actions like tunnelling, camping and slugging is that they are mostly just things that people feel that they need to do to succeed, when that's not really the case. Not to mention those things are what content creators push all the time. I used to play all the time at rank 1 without doing any of those things (and even without BBQ and Pop, I just unlocked those things recently) and I was successful in nearly all of my games. I still do so against plenty of SWF!
At least the game is a lot more balanced than it used to be, but I still would like to see many maps shrunk down a little bit and some love for Solo Survivors.
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I know this frustration. I really do wish the developers would take a more active approach to addressing in-game issues without relying on perks band-aid fixes.
Some examples of reasonable approaches are:
To reduce the necessity of gen slowdown perks, have all survivors spawn together at the start of the game no matter what.
To reduce the effectiveness of camping, give built-in aura reading (for teammates only) when someone is hooked.
To reduce the effectiveness of tunneling, give a 3-second hit-immunity grace period once unhooked.
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Notice my suggestions reduce these issues instead of eliminating them. This is because I wanted to propose simple, easy-to-understand suggestions that are intuitive for new players and aren't entirely game-changing. I also don't want to make effects like BT or kindred entirely redundant and unnecessary, hence only giving partial effects.
Spawning all survivors together makes it easier to pressure them early game, forces time wasted running to separate gens if they split up, and can already happen in the game anyway.
Built-in aura reading for teammates when someone is hooked increases co-ordination and prevents the whole "everyone rescues" scenario, which is crippling vs face camping. Aura-reading is already built-in for survivors in need (dying/hooked), so giving it when your team is in need doesn't feel like too far of a reach.
3-second hit immunity gives your team time to co-ordinate body blocks after the unhook for the injured survivor so BT isn't as mandatory, and would pair nicely with the improved co-ordination of team auras during hooks. BT could even just be simply adjusted to start once that 3 second immunity period ends.
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I consider myself mostly a non sweaty Survivor but you'll still see me run unbreakable, DS, soul guard and Dead Hard.
I run these perks because they give me chances to make plays.
Some of us just want to do bad ass plays or interact with the killer.
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Because they want to win.
But i experienced only advanced players use them.
New and casual players either don´t have them or also use others.
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Another thing would be to reduce the number of palets or introduce a stamina-bar which is reduced for every palet-drop and fast-vault. When the bar is empty you only can slow-vault and palet-drops are impossible. This bar recovers after a chase. So the possibility of 5-gen-loops drops down.
In the hit-immunity I see the problem that the surv on the hook can tank hits for other survs. Better that the hit the unhooked gets will be transferred to the next surv in range of the unhooked one.
Maybe the meta-perks may be nerfed and for most other perks should be a small buff to higher the chance to try other builds.
A randomized mode would be nice too, where everyone gets random perks. So you see more variety.
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Did you even read the post?
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I don't run Ruin or Pop (If I can help it)
But I do run Corrupt (whenever I can)
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Pallet reduction I just generally like, but I doubt they'd ever do that. The last reduction they did removed a single pallet from maps and they thought it was a big deal.
Stamina system was attempted before but scrapped, according to the wiki. I'd assume this was due to it feeling less fun, but I have no idea otherwise.
Hit-immunity survivors tanking hits could be resolved with collision/hitbox removal for the duration, akin to Meyers or Ghostface when they stalk. Swapping health states with unhooker I guarantee will be rejected as overly complicated for newer players as a base mechanic.
I'd also be down for meta perks being nerfed, or everything else being buffed to the point they're similarly attractive options. But the latter option would be massive power creep, so yeah.
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He said he would like to try other perks but needs to use them to have a chance to win.
Of course he can try other bulids - but maybe (or surely) would not win against top players but versus weaker ones he would.
ATM Otz or Tru3 trying a lot of strange builds which sometimes work very good because of the specific synergy and the surprise factor.
I think with the random MMR (at least for me) he will encounter a lot of players who don´t run the meta all the time.
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I can't unequip Buckle Up, the ability to see the recovery progression of survivors within 48 meters is just too good.
Also whenever I equip it, killers stop slugging, so that's nice.
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And i forgot the general point - the game is too fast in my opinion too.
I chill at this event and gens fly because teams are in "win mode". Only some realize i play chill.
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It works a little differently for killer and survivor.
For killer, certain perks are meta because - yes, they cover for other weird balance issues. The other (and I'd say bigger) reason is that there are just far too many killer perks that are either completely/mostly useless (BOP, Overcharge), incredibly gimmicky (Coup, Dark Devotion), have a bizarre drawback/limitation/cooldown (Dying Light, Oppression) or just don't work within the current meta/mechanics (Penti getting countered by boons, for example).
Survivor perks are the opposite. There are certain choices that are just too good not to take. It's basically playing the game wrong. Dead Hard is the best example.
And yes, MMR is very weird sometimes.
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I can’t ever take off DS because I get tunneled hard when I don’t have it on.
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Otzdarva and Tru3Talent also have a massive amount of hours in the game and the skill to make that worthwhile. They also have all the perks unlocked and thus aren't beholden to the grind.
The issue is if you don't have that level of skill then playing off-meta actively hinders your ability to play the game effectively. There is a saying that goes, "In order to break the rules, you must first learn the rules."
There are also times when they are playing weird builds that have an interesting synergy they still lose relatively quickly because sometimes they've got nothing to keep gens in check with. It's much easier to try new and interesting builds on Survivor as long as you aren't concerned with whether or not you need to fight back against tunneling or camping (I'm not).
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Funny thing is I sometimes find non meta perks more useful with certain killers and builds. Discordance for example.
I also play Legion with no anti gen except thana.
But I play with meta stuff too. I dunno I think people should use what they feel like anyway.
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Oh dw I use head on + co plenty enough for it to practically be my meta, and MYC or I'm All Ears just makes me happy in ways I can't put into words accurately, I just wish that I didn't feel so shoehorned into these perks because I'm that vulnerable when I don't use them, and believe me when I say that today and yesterday DS would've gotten plenty of value.
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I alternate between ds and another perk on instinct lol. When I have ds all the time I never get to use it.
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Yeah, without interruption or slowdowns gens are really flying. Sadly.
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because each side wants to win
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Id love a totem protection mechanic that blocks totems during the first 2 minutes of the match
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I get DS, and I 100% support that, hell I'd even say make it base and work off every hook but the game just isnt balanced enough for that. DS is the only needed perk for survivor though, they dont all need DH they could use lithe etc. But DH is better, easier and can be used at any loop to fix mistakes. They're meta because they make it easier with little effort.
Killer however. Well alots seems needed the higher level you go. I'd say something like corrupt is needed and sone other form of regression. I was sooo excited about that early game change but we didnt get it because casuals dont really do gens anyway and that's the balance point...
It's all a shame tbh, could easily buff the weaker perks to be useful tbh but honestly I dont think they can be bothered to make then useful. Why buff others when you can make new ones to sell....
I'd say killer has this worse, even more so due to the 4v1
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They are used to counter the most effect and unfun strategies of both sides. Without them you don't seem ro have a semblance of a chance.
I think the only way to truly change the meta is to change the game in a way that makes both perks unnecessary. How to go about that idk.
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I always believe that it is on the devs to make sure that things are fun for players. If a large number of players are using XYZ to combat game issues, maybe it's worth looking into those issues to see what can be done about them.
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No, the perks attack the root of the opposing sides evolutionary tree
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To be fair I never mentioned dead hard.
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Did you read the post?
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Stop running DS and you'll speedrun uninstalling DBD.
Its almost crazy the lengths we have to go to just to enjoy the game sometimes.
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If you get looped for 5 gens, you're outmatched. That's not the environment, that's you not making the right decisions. And you could easily argue that the bar would refill after taking a hit too, because STBFL could hit a slow vaulter twice. The thing is more that killers need something like Fire-Up to be basekit. Being able to remove pallets faster once there are less gens to patrol. Giving killers a reason to leave a 3-gen since they can quickly greed 2 pallets and come back in time to keep gens pressured. Let alone that increased vault speed later in the game is actually really good for killers. People running Bamboozle tend to use it more often since vaulting that location is faster with bamboozle than walking around, closing the gap quicker. Blocking the window is nice too, but there arent that many windows that need blocking if a killer can vault faster later in the game.
Vaulting faster, kicking gens faster, breaking pallets+walls faster, picking up slugged survivors faster are all really nice mechanics to have as a basekit killer.
As for the hit immunity, well, you could just make it so that the survivor simply removes all hitbox checks except for the environment, meaning teammates, killers and hits arent registered for that survivor for a bit. Basically making them a ghost for a set amount of time.
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In the case of killers, the meta perks certainly cover game flaws, most of them are gen regression/protection perks or related to gens (Tikerer, Discordance).
In the case of survivors, ok, DS, BT and Unbreakable are for countering flaws for avoiding certain unfun killer behaviours (camping and tunneling) but the rest are just for abusing, Dead Hard doesn't cover any game flaw for example, its just a broken perk which avoid a huge amount of hooks and make you win a lost mindgame. CoV neither. Iron Will remove the ability to detect an injured survivor with sound and that bypass the fact "you're hurt you get spotted more easily" which is an important feature for detecting survivors.
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I'd settle for even just a minute tbh
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I randomize every time, and although those perks may be more popular, it's absolutely possible to win without the big ones against those who do.
The shoehorning feels as much a prison of a mindset as it may be about game mechanics, and that's common in everything: In job, a newbie will probably notice possible improvments moreso than someone who's been cranking the job for several years, because of stagnation. This can be very common in every aspect of life. Familiarity breeds contempt and all.
Try not to feel entrapped and trust your skill and instincts more in-game, because someone with that can win with even the strangest of combinations.
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Very nice suggestions but I would make sure that BT also doesn't combo with free unhook save state.
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As survivor, I only really run DH, because I don't feel like walking everywhere for SB, and the other exhaustion perks, are kinda garbage. As killer, I just run Pop for gen slowdown. Unless I'm playing Twins, because it's passive, and you'll spend most of your time playing as Victor anyways. Never really understood why people run full meta builds. It sounds so boring.
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killers have to in order to keep up with survivors. Survivors have to because solo que sucks and there are always the camping toxic killers.
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I don't 😂refrain from saying the word "all"
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Literally though.
It seems like I have to always equip DS + BT every game once I notice that the killers I'm facing are experienced and/or iridescent grade if I at least want to have a less stressful game.
I'd like to run other perks and gimmicky builds, but those matches usually result in me wishing I had the meta perks equipped.
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I know you didnt but you was on about meta, and well I see 4 DH nearly every single killer game so its definitely meta which is why I mentioned it.
It was an example of a strong meta perk that doesn't need to be used every game but still is, unlike DS which if not used has the potential to make you tunneled out within a min of the match. Like I tried to explain (probably badly) some perks are needed to ensure a fun/fair match like DS, Corrupt etc. But other perks like DH arent needed, people just use it because it's a very strong and imo unhealthy but that's a different discussion
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If you'd read the post you'd know it was a response to the question rather than me asking it.
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I don't know what "side" player means. But I only use 1 meta perk I don't even need lmao
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The post was a response to the question, and since it's frequently applied to both sides I thought saying "[SIDE]" would make that obvious. Apparently not.
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Oh, sorry xd
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Don't worry, you're not the only one to miss the point of the post lmao
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Have to say that's not my experience and not illustrative of many of the matches I've played when my opponents have strong perks. As a SoloQ player and a 50/50 player, there have been a multitude of matches whereby the impact of a match has been directed far more by the skill of the opponent/team than by someone using Dead Hard or Corrupt.
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