Trying to understand Hillbilly overheat justification
I'm shocked to find that a lot of people, allegedly even killer mains, think that Hillbilly's overheat is all fine and good. It was undoubtedly a survivor-pandering killer nerf, but here's a few arguments I've seen to justify its existence.
"You have to try to overheat."
They're saying that the only way you're gonna overheat is by doing it on purpose. But as you know, that's not true, because if your try to play Hillbilly like he was before his nerf where you would pre-rev all the time, you're gonna get overheated, at least without an overheat add-on. So this idea that you can forget that it's even a mechanic is just false, because you do actually have to manage how much you're chainsawing.
"Killer powers need limits."
What they're saying is that if you have a strong killer power, you need a drawback. But I don't think Hillbilly's killer power warrants a downside, at least not one like this. Ideally, you never miss any chainsaw or bump into any walls, but the reality is that you will do these things, especially if you're playing curve Hillbilly. When that happens, you'll go into a big old stun animation, allowing the survivor to reset the chase. I'd say that's limit enough. You get rewarded for hitting your chainsaws, you lose it all for missing your chainsaws.
"He doesn't take much skill."
These people believe that pre- and/or post-nerf Hillbilly doesn't take that much skill, that you just run up to survivors and back rev them and they're down. The absolute ignorance of this belief is infuriating. There's so much more to Hillbilly's chases, I'd say even Leatherface is easier to play than him these days. Survivors can deny him the ability to use his chainsaw pretty much, and force him to M1 around a loop or at a window. If he really wants to chainsaw only instead, the survivor will be able to loop him that much easier. Even when he's point-blank with the chainsaw, the survivor can spin or something crazy happens, and he gets a phantom saw. His chainsaw hitbox is surprisingly specific, unlike Leathface's, so he does take a lot of skill.
"He can use his chainsaw to hook trade."
A killer instadowning is problematic, they say. I can somewhat agree. But perhaps the killer should have the advantage in that position? Any killer can hook trade anyway, it just takes some 2 hits instead of 1. If you have a problem with Hillbilly instadowning people at hook, are you not also mad at Myers and Oni who can use their abilities to hook trade? Or is it double standards because Hillbilly was a previous top 3?
Now here's some of my arguments:
"Nobody asked for this."
I say that nobody asked for this. People were complaining about Hillbilly, even though he was the model killer for balance and counterplay, so the devs threw together a poorly thought-out system of balance for him, which was the overheat mechanic. I think people might have been joking about him getting overheat, or needing gas cans to refuel his chainsaw, but they didn't think it would actually happen. They were mocking the people calling for nerfs against Hillbilly, but I guess their mockery was taken as legitimate suggestion by the devs.
"You're getting punished for using your killer's power."
From then on, he was punished for using his power "too much", "too recklessly", or "in the wrong way". To me, these are buzz words that don't have any underlying substance to them. It's the killer's power. We should be able to use it. Killers like Spirit and Nurse are different obviously, but you can also feel the effects of their cooldowns, which sometimes are too much.
If you ask me, if Hillbilly was returned to his original state right now, he probably wouldn't be able to compete with top level. He takes way too much skill and effort for so little reward, especially against god loopers and gen jockeys. He'd have a small chance at best. But the Hillbilly we have right now? An absolute joke at high level. You never see him. I blame the awful add-ons mostly, but the overheat is the biggest slap in the face by far. It represents how weak the killer role is, because everything is balanced around casual survivor.
Comments
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Nothing to understand.
No one asked for it, people only asked for the insta saw addons to be reworked,
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I think it was a result of the map reworks. Just take a look at the patch notes from that era to get a feel of the climate of that time.
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Everyone: hey insta-saw is kinda annoying and really good, the cooldown add-ons aren't great either, could they get a tweak and insta-saw get changed please?
BHVR: butcher his animations, add in features nobody wanted, give him a stupid roar and make nobody want to play him? i got you covered!
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BHVR after nerfing the most well liked killer into irrelevancy
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"We're mostly happy with performance." *nerfs*
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This reminds me of watching McLean reacting to Scott Jund's patch 7.0 video when it got to the billy changes and the oni drift addon in particular and he just shuts it down and goes "No let killers be different" and my first thought was "Why don't you let killers be actually good then?"
Honestly at this point I don't think Hillbilly should bump anymore at all unless hes straight up grinding into the side of a wall face first.
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Hillbilly is still good. The main thing which sucks about him is the FoV and the Animations. Because he feels very janky because of it. Also his Add Ons are more on the bad side, which is not even the worst, since he does not really need Add Ons to begin with. But doing Bloodwebs on him feels like a waste (almost as much as doing Survivor Bloodwebs, lel).
Overheat is barely noticeable. You have to fail A LOT to actually Overheat and at this point, it is deserved.
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They added overheat because hillbilly players could constantly use their chainsaw to go in point B from point A. They could cross the map very easily. That's why.
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I didn't like playing him before, because his charge was really hard to control and would just randomly hit invisible collision points. They didn't improve any of those issues and gave him a whole new sub-system just to nerf him.
Because why should playing as a killer actually be fun for any reason? You need the power to be hard to control, buggy, AND buried under layers of absurd nerfs.
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Person that doesn't play hillbilly confirmed 👍
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And nurse can't? Or demo with his teleport or spirit or blight or a variety of killers?
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Imagine if they put an "Fatigue" meter in for Survivors who hold the run button too long because "It's barely noticeable. You have to fail A LOT to actually get fatigued and at this point, it is deserved."
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I play him quite often. Not as much as before they messed up his animations. But maybe YOU should play some Hillbilly and see that the Overheat is not that big of a deal.
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Since running is a basic mechanic and not a Killer Power your argument is already pretty flawed.
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No, they can't "run" constantly the whole map. Think.
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They looked at the "what" (high kill rate at all levels) but misunderstood the "why" (add ons). By the time it became clear how unpopular the changes were, they had already sunk a development cycle into the add on pass, animation changes, stupid annoying roar, etc. A complete debacle and one I hope they learn from.
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This is it. Hillbilly’s nerf coincided with the map reworks.
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If you play him quite often youd realize he's not a good killer at all these days anybody that plays hillbilly for 100 hours realizes that he's defs low a or b tier
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I guarantee, if they would remove Overheat, the number of Hillbilly-players will not increase that much. Some just dropped him because things like Crack-Billy or Instasaw were not possible anymore.
But I am very sure that the animations are the main reason. He just does not feel right. And this would not change if you would remove Overheat.
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I thought about it,
And then I loaded up the game as blight and nurse and proceeded to go from gen to gen to gen
Then I didn't have to think about it anymore
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Idk, I main billy and I agree, with the person you were replying to. Since the engravings buff, I haven't overheated once besides intentionally overheating before picking up a survivor.
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I never said he was wrong about the overheat mechanic
He said hillbilly was still good
Which isn't even objectively true
Because he isn't, he isn't good at all
There's about 4-5 killers that do everything he does but better
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Cause the devs thought it was a good change... Aaaaaand...
It backfired.. it got more hate than it did love, and i rarely see a hillbilly in my games, it's either Really good Billies..
Or a Bad billy... DAMN IT I CAN'T EVEN SHED A TEAR FOR THE BAD BILLIES ANYMORE, IT'S THE OVERHEAT,
GET RID OF THE DAMN OVERHEAT..
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"They're saying that the only way you're gonna overheat is by doing it on purpose. But as you know, that's not true, because if your try to play Hillbilly like he was before his nerf where you would pre-rev all the time"
thats all it is.
No more constantly spamming the power without penalty. Use it when it can be used.
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I remember when after the ptb feedback and they made changes to his overheat that made his overheat an actual punishment mechanic for holding the chainsaw out too long. Then the devs decided that they wanted to make sure that overheat mechanic punished you for attempting to make plays and nerfed it.
The devs seem to have this idea that a killer's power should punish the player for trying to get too creative with the power rather than letting players get punished for failing with their creative attempt.
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Don't give them ideas. Now they might nerf nurse and blight.
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We have gone over this already. There was absolutely no real reason for his nerf.
The devs even said it themselves. They said that he is punished quite a bit for misusing his chainsaw, but then proceeded to give him the overheat mechanic anyway.
And then there is wraiths nerf, who was nerfed for a stupid reason. It took him years to be pushed up to the B tier, only to be sent back down.
I hate the devs' decisions. BHVR needs people who work on the game to actually KNOW how their game works. It is so disappointing.
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No one knows, but we, Billy mains, Twins mains, and Nurse mains are sitting next to each other in the hole that bhvr threw us into.
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Anyone that thinks Billy takes no skill has never played Billy, he's pretty hard to curve against good players
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Nurse is still the best killer in the game, just goes to show you how broken she was before she was nerfed.
She is a good example of when a killer is ACTUALLY overpowered.
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Overheat sucks no one likes it, if it's barely noticeable to those that support it and absolutely hated to those that hate then what the ######### is even the point of it existing? Billy is still good sure but he's nowhere near where he used to be and if add ons are included I legit think bubba is better since bubba has cracked addons and billy has some of the worst addons in the game. Also yeah his FoV, animations, and that dumb roar all make him so much less fun its ridiculous they thought this was a good idea and shipped it
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Same as Slinger, Newbie potatoes who run in straight lines find him op.
Expect Anna to start throwing pine cones next.
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Basically back in the day there were a lot of threads complaining about Billy camping while 99ing his chainsaw, so an overheat mechanic was asked for by many people actually.
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Hmm yes curve and get stuck on invisible collision... guess its my fault i bumped into a pebble on the ground so im punished for it.
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People throw around the word "objectively" way too much around clearly subjective preferences lol. Not saying I disagree that Hillbilly feels sucky to play now, but that's not an objective demonstrable reality, as clearly others don't feel that way haha
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There's no justification. I heard more than one dev trying to justify the nerf, and their arguments always show that they have a total lack of understanding of how Billy works. They always think they're smarter than anyone else.
As for the community; with every killer nerf there's always this minority of people preaching the same "you only stopped playing X killer because it takes skill now" nonsense. You shouldn't really take them seriously.
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If you barely get overheated, then why is it even there?
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Yet they add Blight.
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It should be able to be used all the time. Should we put an overheat on Trapper's traps next?
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or make hillbilly's chainsaw explode after overheating haha.
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indeed
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This is what falls for me under FoV and animations. His behavior feels different. His Chainsaw-Hitbox is massive, which sucks as Survivor AND as Billy, because you get questionable hits on one side and keep bouncing into things on the other side.
I guess, because they want his power to be punishing. Facing a good Hillbilly was always nice. Facing a bad one pretty lame, since they would go for Chainsaws all the time, failing miserable and only hit when they basically get lucky.
But as I said in another post, if they would remove Overheat, the numbers would not really increase. Some dropped him because they never played without Instasaw or Engravings/Tuning Guide. And most probably dropped him because of his awful feeling when playing him.
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Yes but her bugs that have been for like 4 years are still there, even if she is the strongest and needed a nerf she sits with us.
Not disagreeing honestly.
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My Nurse-games are pretty much bugfree. The only Bug I sometimes get is that I cannot press M1 after teleporting, but this is rare. Annoying, but so far it only ruined one game for me.
But Bugs dont really justify that this design failure of a Killer can still be in the game.
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I get the crow sounding bug that doesn't allow a second blink really often, some maps have a no blink area in certain spots, when you fully charge sometimes a rock won't allow it.
But I don't consider design failure nurse, this game has strong killers that require a lot of skill to use.
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So? What's your point here? Good idea. Nerf blight. If that's what you want.
Stop replying to my comments. I said why they added overheat for hillbilly. Accept the truth and get over it. You don't have to come with arguments or stuff. I'm not here for this and I'm not interested in this conversation. There's no need anyway
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That's kinda my biggest issue with overheat.
Sure good billy's will barelly notice it.
But people who are learning billy will fail a lot. It is contributing to people not wanting to play him by making an already difficult killer to learn even harder.
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I play Billy and I must say that overheat is a bit of a bummer.
Most of the time I do not notice it. However when I challenge myself for a chainsaw only round it becomes pretty annoying. But nothing more than that. I can count the amount of times I overheated unwillingly with 2 fingers. There is no justification for Overheat however as it is there is no problem for me.
More bothersome is the overall mechanic: The chainsaw has a 3 second recovery without add-ons and it has this recovery all the time. You run into a survivor and down them? 3 seconds. You break a pallet? 3 seconds. You bump into something? 3 seconds. You let go of the chainsaw? 3 seconds. In my opinion you should get punished more for missing and bumping and less for stopping on your own term.
Also the hitbox of the chainsaw is strange sometimes. There are instances when it works fine and other where I go straight through the survivor.
Not to mention that the pallet and Dead Hard hit validation acts as a nerf to my Billy. It is now far easier to throw a pallet at me and stun me than before. And I have the muscle memory of stopping my chainsaw as soon as I see blood and hear a scream. This means that as soon as the hit validation goes off for Dead Hard I stop and go on the 3 second recovery even thou the better decision most times would be to just keep chainsawing...
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Its a very big deal
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TBH, and this from som1 who plays saw only billy today(m1 not allowed). It was annoying as fk to have every billy 99 rev to baby the hit. Now, however the overheat is annoying as fk. but it's not because of back rev. I just feel naked unless im zoomin- so it is annoying 4 sho. or the awkward moment when i do overheat mid chase... i just follow them like an idiot till its back
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