How is Hag good?
Let me guess, streamers/Scott Jund said she's good, so therefore she's A-B tier, right?
Even though her traps are so easy to counterplay by setting them off whenever she isn't around, making her waste time in the process?
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No Hag is good because she has the ability to camp without even being there and you say her traps are easy to counter let me ask you something have you never played against an experienced hag who knows how to hide her traps and place them in ways you won't expect? if not then you may wanna check out Michi probably the best Hag to ever be in Dead by Daylight he shows why Hag is a top tier Killer.
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She's almost at Nurse tier against solo players, but she comes down to B+ tier against SWF. She's counterable, but if the player controlling her knows what they're doing, she will even make a well coordinated swf team sweat.
With certain perks and add-ons, she can be so frustrating - Make Your Choice is down right oppressive on her.
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I was about to same almost the same thing. Pretty much what you said XD
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Just lost a hag game? I was gonna argue but it's pretty much what @Haddix@Huge_Bush said
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I mean, if you're purposefully going around setting off her traps, than you aren't doing gens. Sounds like she's still winning. Better to go against three players than four.
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So, the ability to "camp"... by crouching over her traps and saving and then forcing her to come back or basically admit she wasted time placing traps?
And, tbh, not particularly, every Hag I come across is bad or doing a daily. Not like it matters, "hiding her traps" means absolutely nothing lmao. gets free hits sure but that requires Survivors not catching on.
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"Almost at Nurse tier against solo players" No.
She's VERY counterable as you said, therefore nowhere near Nurse.
And mind explaining a bit further?
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It's not hard to set off a trap or two real quick and then run to a gen. It's not like Trapper's traps. And if the Hag teleports to me, she's being contained and not patrolling gens. :)
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Honestly, no. I typically bully Hags I come across in solo queue. Shutting down their traps is easy.
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Hag is one of those killers that even with 1 to 2 gens remaining can snowball so hard if u set up properly. She is an easy killer to use but hard to learn how to use her right, requires game knowledge also requires good understanding of trap placements. hag is easy to mess up if u have no idea what u are doing, hag is taht good taht even is used in competitive, not that much but is used.
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So do I, but I'm pretty sure most hags I go against are doing a daily or a challenge
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Hag is good because you run to a pallet/window and either see the trap there, forcing you to take a 90* turn or a backtrack that leads to her hitting you, or you run/vault through and she teleports to the other side and hits you. She's one of the few killers that can go 'lol' at the basics of looping. Her traps are way less visible from a distance than Trapper's and blend into most maps' terrain, she has more of them, they're all instantly available, they take less time to place, and they grant her very high map mobility.
Everyone knows that Hag can hook camp, but even when she's not doing that, she can kick plenty of ass just by trapping the strongest tiles and turning them into instant hits when survivors run to them. She can also quickly force a survivor leave a strong tile she doesn't want them to be in by placing a trap (and chase them towards the structures she does have trapped.) She can shut down everything around a 3-gen and she's also got a good game for finding survivors just by random triggers across the map.
When she does trap hooks - obviously you can crouch, but the downside is that if you take your sweet time walking up to the hook and walking away from it, she can gain distance the old-fashioned way, especially if she traps smart and places them at choke points a short distance away from the hook, or at loops near the hook. Devour is too unreliable at high ranks for her to take advantage of not technically camping, but Make Your Choice is nasty on her.
She can be rendered toothless by a team that's using third-party communications and always has someone hanging back to call her traps and defuse them when she's busy, but it requires all the players to understand what the goal is and act in very specific ways, so many SWFs struggle with it regardless. I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be, especially when destroying her traps involves either an item you have to have (and if you bring it in, most Hags will run Franklins), or the Hag omae wa mou'ing you if she's not occupied in that moment. A good Hag isn't going to leave you to screw up all her work.
She doesn't have the same power ceiling as Nurse, Spirit, or even Blight, because a team that's good enough can consistently waste her setup time and force her to really sweat for value, but she's more than just a pub stomper and she's more dangerous than other killers that can wreck pubs but struggle with coordinated teams.
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Good hags won't give you a chance to react. trap activates mucscle reflex immediately teleports boom hit. Plus nobody really looks for her traps.
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I get your point but this entire post assumes four things:
- That Hag has trapped said vault.
- That Hag has trapped a vault specifically (this has a lesser chance of working on dropped pallets, Survs can just fast vault back to the other side)
- That someone has not already defused it.
- That you need a SWF to shut down her power repeatedly and make it much more useless. Running over her traps intentionally and then running to a loop does not require a SWF, Hag can be bullied by a single solo Survivor who has game sense. If the Hag teleports, she wastes time occupying a single Survivor while the others do gens. Hag's power can be turned against her like Thrill can be turned against Killers.
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As soon as I know it's a Hag, I check to see if she's experienced and react accordingly. I set off her traps intentionally whenever possible so they can't be used in chases later on. Scenarios like Laluzi's have a lower chance of working if I'm on the team, specifically. I don't respect Hag traps, which is why they have a lower chance of winning.
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Yeah few people are like you. Few look for traps and purposely set them off.
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Hag is good because a good one is always in 7 places at once. Triggering her traps is a guaranteed hit for her.
She's the only killer that doesn't worry about gens.
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the thing with hag, is that very few people play her.
so most of the people you see, are just doing a daily.
a hag that knows what she's doing, is easily S tier. Coordinated SWF teams being the thing that puts her down to A tier.
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Hag reaaaallly depends on the opponent. Results will vary.
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No, she is good because if you play her for an extended time you will see why.
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If the Hag isn't trapping loops, I question what she's doing. Obviously not every loop is going to be trapped, but a decent Hag is going to identify which structures are near key gens, which loops will give her the most trouble without help, and which medium loops are in the sweet spot of useful but not extremely predictable. Not literally every vault you go to is going to be trapped, but it's the fact that she can lock down good tiles and force you to run through dead zones to worse ones or take a hit that makes her dangerous. Yes, if your teammates have removed her traps in the meantime, it's useless. (And yes, that means it's easier to predict where she'll put traps without having to waste time watching her.) But if they haven't, you're screwed either way you run it. Her power gives her free hits when a survivor moves through an area that they didn't predict or couldn't avoid and it doesn't have that much opportunity cost to set up compared to Trapper, especially later in the game when she has a smaller area to consider.
It also works fine on undropped pallets. Survivors run towards the pallet with their mind already set on dropping it or running straight through. If the Hag wasn't stupid and placed it far enough away that she wouldn't be able to get pallet stunned in her new location, the survivor needs to react very quickly to be able to turn around and drop the pallet from the other side. Getting the vault back's also tricky unless you're doing what you were doing and triggering the trap because you expected it. If you weren't expecting it, you're surprised and the Hag isn't (so if she's any good at Hag, she is spamming the hell out of her designated key and preparing to swing), and you also have to rotate your camera away from the auto-lock that is going to face you forward. Inexperienced Hags often teleport on a delay; experienced Hags don't.
Bullying the Hag in solo queue is all well and good until she goes full angry grandma on you and takes you out, sets up nearby around your hook, and your teammates have no idea what to avoid (or how to play against Hag, period, because most solos seem to forget that traps are a thing that exist and run around with their pants off.) You get unhooked and either go down again immediately if the teammate was particularly stupid and didn't crouch all the way, or you get away successfully because you saw/can guess where she set up, but the solo runs right into one of the nearby traps she set up (since you just freed up a bunch of hers before this, it would be bizarre of her not to set them at the closest good loops/chokepoints) and goes down. Or the solo is cautious and looks around for traps, but because they don't know where to look ahead of time, this is a good opportunity for her to catch up. Meanwhile, unless the solo tripped no traps and she doesn't return to the hook, you don't have the ability to defuse her new traps until you find a third person to heal you or until she picks someone up, because you are injured and she's already grown to expect you screwing with her traps - you're likely a higher priority than the other players. She can also start predicting your behavior and start trapping her traps - place one in an obvious area and secondaries in the areas you run to (which won't work if you're watching her, but if you're watching her, you're not doing anything else.) Or she can place traps in loops that aren't right next to the vault point, but in the lap someone takes around the loop, so that you're more exposed after you trip it.
The issue I see is that you can monitor her and defuse her traps when you're in the area, but you can't communicate where the rest of them are when you're hooked/in a chase/on the wrong side of the map, so you have to spend the whole game being a patsy and drawing aggro because none of your knowledge helps your teammates unless you are there to act on it. And while you have aggro, you can't do anything about further traps. Being the only person in a position to hinder the killer isn't a good spot to occupy. It can be doable, and your games are proof of that, but dealing with Hag on solo is very unreliable. It's way too easy for your teammates to run straight into her meat grinder despite your best efforts, and one person can't stop her if she starts snowballing. And if she's good enough, it won't take her too long to get rid of you and return to picking off everyone else at her leisure. You're 1v1ing her and hoping that you buy enough time for everyone else before you die and they go back to being exactly as good as solo queues are against Hag. A 4-man SWF doing what you're doing annihilates most Hags because she can't solve the problem by tunneling someone out of the game.
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Hag is good because her webs are hard to break and even a good team will have to be extremely patient and drag trials out for upwards of half an hour to make absolutely certain they don't make a fatal mistake and get snowballed.
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Good survivors know how to trigger traps without taking hits (you keep your camera centred on the trap and edge towards it, quickly running back when it's triggered so that you don't get hit by her ITH lunge, leaving her to either go through the teleportation cooldown or the lunge cooldown if she wants to hit you, which gives survivors plenty of distance and forces the hag to give up on that trap and/or chase the survivor to try and get a hit before they reach a safe, untrapped loop). However, it does require the survivor to know where they are and do it outside of a chase, which is why it's mostly in the realm of being useful only to very co-ordinated teams.
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Since when are survivors good 😂
I agree with you, but most survivors can't do this.
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Hag is so bad, she is only 3rd most picked killer in comp scene behind Nurse and Spirit. What a loser killer am I right?
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Hag can be devastating
Absolutely devastating 😔
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Theory vs. practice.
There are many places traps can be set where you aren’t going to see them.
You’re not going to avoid every trap even if they’re all placed out in the open. Hag is not stationary. You either run at an awkward angle into a dead zone and get hit or you run though the trap and get hit. Either way you’re getting hit.
Need to vault that window to avoid getting downed but you know it’s trapped? Avoid the window. You just saved yourself a couple seconds.
At a strong loop? Nvm Hag just trapped it in your face and you’re forced to leave.
Yes, in theory you can just avoid her traps. In theory you can just disable them all in advance. In an actual match though, it’s just not going to happen. Even good SWF can’t pull this off consistently. Sure they can do a better job then solos by far, but they’re still going to trigger traps, they’re still having to play awkwardly, they’re still leaving loops on command, and they’re still getting downed out of nowhere.
Hag is very strong. She does have very tangible counter play, and that’s why she’s balanced, but you’re not going to execute that counter-play optimally, which is why she’s also a very well designed killer.
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A great Hag who can place traps in unexpected spots, has great perks that even make Hag better, can teleport immediately, good add-ons like placing speed or range, as well she has no map dependence. She is in S tier yes she has counterplay but it's hard counterplay.
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This is interesting, because I run into this repeatedly whenever I play Hag. Survivors watch my traps because I can't afford to move from gens because I'm a slow M1 Killer who can't place traps further from gens.
I just... mimic what they do against Hag, and it works. Almost 100% of the time.
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S tier implies she's as good as Nurse. And I am sorry, but she isn't. She's been subjected to power creep.
I agree with the rest though, nobody plays her and everyone is just doing a daily, but they don't play her for good reason. It's why you see every other Killer that was free... except Hag.
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The experience of going against a Hag is almost entirely dependent on the player. Like Nurse, when I realize it's a hag I know that game is probably going to to be pretty easy, but it just might be really ugly for the survivors.
I feel like above a certain level you're only going to face really good, experienced Hags. A top tier Hag can be absolutely miserable to go against.
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I’m not sure where Hag falls exactly, but she’s a good killer. Anybody who thinks she’s garbage hasn’t watched Michi play her. He decimates survivors even when they’re intentionally trying to set off his traps when they think he’s busy and doing other common anti-Hag tactics. Things he does that average Hag players probably don’t do:
- He never just puts a trap at a generator. They’re always at loops and such where he expects survivors will be running when they spot him or are in a chase. He also never just puts a trap right next to a hooked survivor, they’re always farther out to maximize the distance a rescuer has to crawl to evade the trap without setting it off and lower the chance they see it on the way in.
- He sometimes chains traps, so that if someone intentionally sets off one trap they’ll likely set off a second trap a few seconds later they didn’t know about. If he thinks someone is watching him he’ll place an obvious trap, move out of sight behind an obstacle or wall, and do another they can’t see him place.
- He sometimes uses the trap’s ability to force survivor’s cameras to turn toward the trap when it springs to screw up the direction survivors are running so they go off course from whatever pallet or vault or passage they were headed toward.
- He doesn’t just spam teleport, he times the teleports for the situation. Sometimes it pays to not teleport at all, or to wait until the last minute to teleport, depending on what the survivor is doing.
- He keeps in mind what direction survivors are likely to be headed when they come near the trap and places it appropriately rather than arbitrarily place them in an area. This is useful to have a trap hidden from view behind an obstacle from a possible flashlighter, for instance, or to as he puts it “make the trap Dead Hard proof” against survivors who hit Dead Hard when they expect a lunge.
- And finally he rarely actually chases survivors, he lets the traps do the work. He constantly resets traps and has any many out as possble.
There are some people who call Hag weak, including a streamer or two, but then of the ones who say that whom I’ve watched play Hag they make some of the mistakes I mentioned above. Hag has a surprisingly high skill ceiling because to play her well you have to have a really, really good game awareness and understanding of her unique strategy. Placing traps and teleporting aren’t mechanically difficult, it’s not like you need awesome aim or reflexes, but the skills you need to play her at really high level involve deeper, subtler aspects of the game, including things that don’t translate from general experience with other killers. (In fact playing her like most killers is a good way to lose.)
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You have to know you set off her traps....have you faced the silent hag yet....
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She is very overrated by the community, just very annoying to save your friend when they do get caught and trapped up.
She isn't bad but she is not a top 4 killer, at least not in my opinion.
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Hag is only really good if you get a good set up otherwise if you don't have the set up you're gonna have a rough time with her cause most players still chase normally as her but, you can't do that with her as you won't get much benefit from so there for you gotta set up in order for her to be really good has good anti loop when they're aren't expecting it, good hook/gen pressure if she can get those quick attacks.
The really bad thing with her is that her set up takes awhile and a good team can take her out pretty easily but, she can still be a power house.
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I will also say she is map dependent, she is really good on certain maps and like...whatever on others.
Indoor or tight maps she can be gross. Playing on midwich where her traps take up the whole hallway and the maps small so you can pretty much always teleport
Meanwhile on big open maps she is just whatever..Not bad, not great just good.
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she's not. she's just overhyped by these dbd streamers lol
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Yeah no Hag is overrated AF. Talking from a solo queue experience not only do I rarely see hag but when I do she's never a real problem. Sure there are people out there who are really good with hag and going against them can be difficult, but I don't think because a certain streamer or person who plays the game night and day is really good with a certain killer makes them higher tier.
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But she can just as easily be beat by a 4-man SWF who plays careful and uses flashlights.
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Does any Hag-player go against 4 Flashlights? I mean, the Killer sees the Survivors and if there are four Flashlights, they would dodge as Hag. UNLESS all 4 of them quickswitch (but even then, dodging is still possible, and it is rare that all 4 quickswitch) OR the Hag-player wants a Challenge and does not care about winning.
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Why should a killer have to lobby dodge any lobby? If they've lost the match before it's even begun, something's wrong with your game.
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This...is not even my point. But thanks I guess.
I just said that it is very unlikely that a Hag faces 4 Survivors with Flashlights. And that you basically need a Flashlight to have a chance against a Hag (and even then, Flashlights are limited) is not really the pinnacle of gamedesign.
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You don't need a flashlight to have a chance against her. 1 or 2 will completely shut her down, but they're not necessary. She has to pick someone up sometime, and when that happens the team can just set everything off so she loses 70% of her web of traps. Survivors can also do an exploit to where they 360 spin into the trap so that they can already be running away even when she instantly teleports.
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Hag is good due to being able to proxy camp that is basically it
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Hag is amazingly strong because of her ability to camp. Throw agitation and iron grasp and you are almost guaranteed to get someone in the basement. Once you do that, it's game over. She may be worse than Basement Bubba, you just don't see her as much.
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