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My opinion about DS
So we all know this perk was nerfed because it was abused and now is strictly a perk anti-tunneling (semi in my opinion), so why is not usable two times, after every unhook? The killer is tunneling you two times, not only one time. It should be a perk anti-tunneling, not anti semi tunneling. You might say "the killer will know you have DS after first hook, so he will slug you and wait for DS then hook you again". That's ok for me. There are enough perks to counter slugging, but for tunneling...just DS, usable once per trial. That's stupid imo.
Comments
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The perk would be too strong in my opinion. DS is in the right spot currently. Some people even want DS to deactivate if you touch the exit gate (what would make sense with the overall perk). If there is one meta perk i would change something about it would be BT rather than DS.
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"Too strong"? Are you ######### kidding. It's strong against tunnelers. If the killer is not even tunneling you have a perk for nothing which is good for killer, so it's NOT too strong if it's a situational perk. What are we talking about here?? The fact that I want perks against camping, tunneling, slugging etc it's too strong lmao. But tunneling itself it's not too strong. Give me a break with your "too strong" reply.
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Nope, it would be too strong. DS is a perk that was meant to help you against tunneling and not to completely counter it. Imagine all four survivors have DS (what you would expect), that means DS had the possibility to activate 8 times and if you don't see the error here, then that's on you. There are situations where the killer absolutely has to tunnel and your DS change would absolutely kill it. DS currently hits the sweet spot where it is not too strong but also not too weak.
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Even after the nerf I see survivors intentionally trying to get themselves picked up after an unhook just so they can stun the killer because it wastes so much of their time. It’s still a great perk even after the nerf, no way does it need a huge boost.
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I agree with you. With proxy-tunneling a survivor off hook became a go-to for killers. I would say it needs to work 2 times. It only affects killers if they tunnel-off-hook at this point, after it's massive nerf, and it's the only perk survivors have in their personal inventory for tunneling.
It's not a good perk for survivors, it's a necessary perk for survivors because of tunneling killers. If the developers would do something about tunneling-off-hook, then it wouldn't be needed. And personal, I'd prefer the Developers to do something about tunneling-off-hook, so I don't need to run DS. Instead I'm forced to, because there isn't a method to prevent tunneling-off-hook, except for DS and if another player has BT.
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As long as DS deactivates after the 5th generator is complete, I am perfectly fine with that change. Either way, it needs to be tested in a PTB.
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DS is perfectly fine the way it is. Of course, when you play solo q, there are some perks that feel underwhelming... but on coordinated teams, getting one second chance after the other just demolish the killer. DS is still strong even in solo q, but you have to think a bit about how to use it... unlike before.
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I also see survivors trying to make me eat DS even if I'm chasing someone else. When they do that, I know they have DS. I just let them on ground and continue my chase...
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This is actually a good idea.
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Right after being unhooked, especially with BT active, get in the killer's face to stop them chasing the unhooker and, if the killer chases you, go into a locker. If the killer picks you up, DS them. BT and DS are both used offensively. Change it so BT deactivates if it's a protection hit so a wounded unhooker can't be protected like that and have DS deactivate if the survivor goes into a locker or as soon as another survivor gets hooked.
As well, if somebody just got unhooked while the last gen is being finished and the Killer found someone get in the killer's face and see if they pick you up. Wham, DS and a guaranteed escape. Change it so DS deactivates as soon as the last gen finishes.
If those changes were advocated for at the same time then saying DS should activate after each hook would be a lot more palatable.
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You are asking me to make the killer tunnel me abusing BT and then you are asking for BT to be deactivated if it's a protection hit? You make me so confused. Also, I will never make the killer tunnel me. That's not the point. If they are not tunneling they should not be forced to eat DS or even BT.
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DS is still very strong and unbalanced. The design of the perk is really bad and abusive.
Is the root of much of the imbalance of the survivors.
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I'm not asking you to; I'm explaining one of the ways it's abused. I agree that tunneling is annoying but right now DS is being used against non-tunneling killers. If DS were changed so that it couldn't affect non-tunneling killers then saying it should have two uses would have a lot more support. Right now, giving it two uses would just increase the shenanigans. Once the changes I mentioned are made, then I'd be fine with it.
Of course, I'm not a comp player. They might still disagree but that's because tunneling is also used as a counter to how fast gens can be done.
Maybe a buff/debuff to gen speeds based on the following:
Generator finished (debuff)
Survivor Sacrificed (buff)
Minutes of Match (reduce debuff).
If it were balanced properly, that could make it so the only way gens could be rushed is if a survivor is tunneled. The meta move would then be to spread out hooks while survivors couldn't just gen rush until the killer has a chance to chase and play the game as long as the killer doesn't tunnel. That could reduce complaints and make it more fun for both sides.
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So if the developers removed DS, Killers would be absolutely free to tunnel-off-hook survivors out of the game without any recourse at all.
The best solution is to have the developers put in some type of anti-tunnel-off-hook and anti-face camp mechanic then remove DS and BT completely. Maybe survivors shouldn't lose a health state if they are rehooked within 1 minute of being hooked and hook state doesn't progress as long as the killer is within 32 meters and isn't in a chase. (They need to add the "isn't in a chase" so it isn't abused)
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Survivor gameplay should focus on team play.
If a survivor rescues in the face of the killer, he must be penalized, but the abuse of perks allow to turn one's own mistakes into killer's mistakes.
If the killer tunnels, the survivors must focus on generators and bodyblock. They must distribute the hooks.
If the killer camp, a little more of the same, but prioritizing saving with BT.
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Honestly, if a Killer is going to tunnel you that hard, that you need DS twice, first your looping is sus.
And, second, isn't it better to just get out of that unfun ######### game faster.
I know for me, if killers tunnel that hard, even if it's not me, I'd rather move to the next game asap.
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I'd be fine with this. DS is very difficult to use offensively in its current state, so I wouldn't mind increasing its defensive properties, especially in the absence of other anti-tunnel perks.
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I disagree i feel like running it offensively is the only way to play it after the nerf. aka getting healed by someone and then interupting killer in chase so that he procs it unknowingly. Otherwise its waste of the perk since you can wait out the timers, while also proxy camping the slug.
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I find that killers are more likely to risk DS since less people run it. There's not an awful lot of waiting out going on in my survivor games.
While I've eaten a few surprise DSes, the best way to handle it on the killer side is to just pick a different target. If you follow the new chase to completion, DS will probably be over with by the time you've downed and hooked the next guy and then had a chance to find and down the earlier one.
If I see a recently unhooked player behaving aggressively towards me, like obviously trying to get me to chase them again or bodyblocking past BT, I assume they have DS and slug them.
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