This is why killers call the game survivor sided!
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I wouldn't bother using a video of a streamer to prove your point. These people instantly dismiss your argument when you do that, for some reason.
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He's also clearly massively tilted and didn't even think about the deep wound timer keeping them out of lockers. That happens when you play variety killer and don't just master one killer. You don't think of something like that unless you play Legion over and over. I mean I didn't even know about Legion tech until I watched a bunch of Ryuga that plays Legion all the time. The flashlight locker tech needs to be taken out of this game though. It's been around for a long time now. I remember it like from a year and a half ago when Ayrun and his buddy used it to bully Otz
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Don't strawman.
Nobody ever said that. They are saying that one particular video perfectly encapsulates some of the things that makes it soul crushing to play killer sometimes.
The issue is:
- Flashlight macros are annoying and can give photosensitive players serious issues, or at least completely prevent killers from hearing other audio cues.
- Some of those flashlight saves and DH's were...iffy. Could just be pixel perfect play, could be stretched res, could even be hacking. It's impossible to tell sometimes.
- At the very least, you shouldn't be able to 100% guarantee a flashlight save by jumping into a locker. This allows teams to hold matches hostage indefinitely (I've been on the receiving end of this myself).
- SWFs can be amazingly frustrating to play against and should not have the same MMR as if those players had queued up as solos.
- Legion needs a serious rework.
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It's not a strawman.
1 video isn't how all matches go out, or should we also use Otz 50 win streaks to use as evidence of the game being "unbalanced"?
Some matches suck, for both sides, all you have to do is deal with it and move on to one that is better.
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As am I. I'm also just baffled by how spaghetti-code the game is to allow resolution to have gameplay-altering impact. Does widescreen also increase the FoV for killers?
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Yes, it's a strawman. Nobody in the history of these forums has actually said 'unless I win 100% of the time, this game is unbalanced'. The OP certainly didn't.
You made that up to reframe what the OP was saying in a disingenuous manner - that's the definition of strawmanning.
He never said that this was how all matches play out either.
He was saying that this video is a good summary of why killers say that the game is survivor sided - because it contained most of the biggies, particularly how if you have the coordination, you can basically take a game hostage using a locker/flashlight combo to 100% guarantee a save.
I've had a SWF team 99% the final gen and use this (and other tricks) to stall the game out for over half an hour, with the express goal of either forcing me to AFK (so they can report me for non participation) or DC.
I'm not sure why you are defending this.
EDIT: And no, Otz's 50 win streaks are more an example that under the old matchmaking, a sufficiently skilled killer can win a lot of games back to back. That's more a commentary on how bad matchmaking could be under ranks.
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What am I defending exactly? Nowhere in any of my posts I defend anything.
If this isn't how all matches play out, why is it being used as a "killer matches are so bad just look at this one single example" ?
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Sigh.
Again, that's not what anyone is saying.
They are saying that this match is an example of these problems. The locker/flashlight thing - you are defending it by implication. You disagreed with the OP (and attempted to smear him by strawmanning) but nowhere did you say that you excepted this borderline exploit.
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If the killer was actually the power role, survivors wouldn't even be able to do all this bs in the killer's face without getting downed and hung up on a hook immediately. Just look at F13. Everyone was scared of Jason then they figured out you could group up as counselors and keep stunning Jason over and over again with weapons and he couldn't do ######### about it, so in response the devs made it so that after a certain amount of time you couldn't stun Jason anymore and he was an unstopped killing machine. It put pressure on the counselors to actually do the objective instead of trying to troll and bully the killer or else you were dead if you didn't get the objective done in time
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It isn't what anyone is saying? Yea, maybe not with the exact words I just used, but that's exactly what they are saying.
I disagree with the OP on the fact that "the game is survivor sided", yes I know you also think it's survivor sided, and I honestly don't care.
Should I show some examples how the game is "killer sided" by showing really extreme situations? No, because that's cherry picking.
So if someone doesn't say "this is bad" they are defending it? Odd take.
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And that's why I'm saying you are strawmanning. You are inferring a meaning that nobody is using. Can you show me any proof that leads you to believe that anyone in this thread is saying that they must win 100% of the time, or that every game is survivors abusing lockers/flashlights?
Or...are they saying that there are mechanics and balance issues in the game that probably need to be fixed?
This isn't cherry picking. This is pointing out specific problems and using a video as a framing device.
And yes - when someone puts up a list of issues and you say 'I disagree', the onus is on you to say 'except for' - which you did for stretched res, but not the locker thing.
But okay then - do you agree that the locker thing needs to be fixed or not? Let's establish that here.
EDIT: And the silence is deafening.
Post edited by StarLost on2 -
Why would Killer be the power role in a competitive game.
Neither role is the power role. If you have a really good Survivor group against a weaker Killer player, then yes, this stuff can happen to the killer. If you have a really good Nurse player against an average survivor group, you better believe you would see the exact oppositve, were all 4 survivors are on the group bleeding out with 5 gens barely being touched.
You make it sound like a Noob Killer should decimate any type of survivor group, even if they have 4,000 hours of play between them.
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Because it's a 1v4 and the killer is supposed to be all powerful requiring the 4 to have to work together to survive? This game isn't that though, it's a 1v1v1v1v1 where it's not super difficult to just run the killer for a long time because of how killer powers are made clunky to use, structures are busted, and there's 8,000 god pallets
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F13 was way better than this game, it only died because of the copyright claim lawsuits that prevented them from adding anything new to it. Not everyone wanted to play as Jason all the time, there were no problems finding lobbies quickly with 7 counselors and Jason
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Because up until DbD, that's sort of how APvP games worked.
'Power role' is less of a numerical thing and more of a 'feel' thing.
It shouldn't be possible for a group of survivors to basically meme on a killer indefinitely with no realistic way of stopping it. Being able to endlessly abuse locker->flashlight save, or having maps where a single sabo can create a deadzone where the killer cannot hook survivors - that stuff is ridiculous.
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Yes please show us some examples. I here a lot of survivor complaints but never any real proof. Oh and camping and tunneling are not examples, because there are plenty of ways for survivors deal with them.
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"real proof" just play survivor solo q for like 1 hour, or do we also have to do that for you?
Plenty of ways to deal with camping and tunneling, like the way of dealing with flashlights with lightborn?
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@Marigoria I do play solo survivor and it is usually a very fun and stress free time. I'd play it more but I don't want to wait ten minutes for a game when killer is instant(wonder why that could be).
Also I still waiting for you to show us your proof that the game is killer sided
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You dont even have to use small game. You can just keep track of totems and it effectively does the same job.
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Lol all the people saying this isn't a good representation of the game being survivor sided. This is what the game is like on non meta killers against survivors that know what they are doing. You also have to remember they were "goofing" around with the FL locker saves. If they didn't play around, he would've lost much quicker. But yeah, DBD isn't survivor sided. We, as in 95% of the community, only account for solo survivors getting smashed on and the kill rates which are inflated by said solo players that have zero clue how to loop shack. Most players could have double pallet and vault jungle gyms and still die 9 out of 10 games. But lets keep basing survivor potential around those level of players, instead of competent players that smash on every non meta killer they face, even if the killer player they are facing is actually good at the game.
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That only works in swf.
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Survivor for me is instant during the day and killer isnt, this with crossplay off which is supposed to slow queue times.
Mind quoting me where i said "the game is killer sided"? Because I never said that. The game is SWF sided, not solo survivor sided, not killer sided.
You people love to make crap up lol
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Sometimes it's more intelligent to not reply back when all you do is going in circles, so yes, enjoy your silence.
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He did many mistakes... His build sucks, he is not a good Legion player. Saying this was tournament level SWF is a joke.
and this wasn't macro, it was just binded to scroll wheel. Macro is way more annoying.
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Not really. It's easy to find all totems on most maps. Indoor maps are pain for it tho.
You have lot of guaranteed spawns and there is pattern how totems spawn -> pentagram, or square with middle spawn. Just play smart and don't cleanse, remember dull totems instead, so you can easily find noed, if needed and you don't waste time cleansing each game.
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Sure, it wouldn't be a problem if killer would have more perk slots....
You should play killer then you would understand the pain. But apparently you don't do it...
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He's playing as Legion with perks he even said aren't the best. Those survivors brought the map, brought really good perks and knew exactly what they're plan was.
All this proves to me is 3 things:
- Nobody (especially survivors) should be able to bring map offerings. Knowing the map allows you to bring builds that exploit problems with that map.
- Perks should have weight when it comes to MMR.
- Mains buildings shouldn't be made this strong.
A few people said this but Tru3 should've only chased survivors who had to mend since this means they can't sit in lockers.
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Honestly the Flashlight saves from Locker Grabs are a little ridiculous.. that really shouldn't be a thing, it was clearly abused in this video!
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Yes it's easy to find them all, but do I have time to find them all while doing saves and gens at the same time?
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I play both sides. Killer doesn't need more perk slots. Me disagreeing with you =/= me not playing killer. Is having a different opinion such a deep concept that you cannot grasp it?
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You just do it while traveling across a map for gens / saves , at that point it doesn't waste much time.
It's way easier as SWF of course, but not impossible as soloQ.
There are maps like Racoon city, or Midwitch where system is same, but it's way harder to find them because of multiple floors, but it's not really hard for normal maps. You just need to use totem hunting perks (I love Detective's hunch), or map for few hundred games to learn spawns...
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You say it isn't impossible. And I agree. Nothing in this game is impossible. So why mention anything at all?
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You said it works only in SWF. I don't agree with that. That's why.
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Tru3 has ~7k hours in this game. From what i've seen, he doesn't play killer any different as other veteran content creators. Most killers (besides nurse, blight and huntress) have a low-mid skillcap. Once you've reached that, there's not really much to learn anymore. Sure, you can increase your brightness, use filters and streched to see better and more, but it's not intended nor balanced this way, unfair with crossplay aswell.
At the end it's all about effiencity on both sides. DBD is killer-sided with bad survs, and surv-sided with good survs.
Veterans already knew that for years, now MMR opens more and more eyes. Hopefully.
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Yea, I mentioned it since it was a comparison since people got upset about me saying you can use lightborn to counter flashlights.
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Not really. Lightborn is terrible...
It would be decent perk, if it wouldn't be that easy to tell killer is using it.
But you just have 1 survivor that tried to use flashlight and everyone knows (if SWF). Since that moment it's useless perk.
Frenklyn's is actually way better for it and it works against other items too.
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Nah maybe I just got problem with the way you express yourself. I'm wondering how you perform with less efficient killers, don't you think all killers should be able to have a chance at the beginning of the match?
You said the killer should have brought Lightborn, but if you play killer you exactly know you cannot prepare for every situation.
A killer has 4 perk slots, it's impossible to have a perk for every situation:
-survivors play immersive bring tracking perk
-survivors rush generator bring slowdown perk
-survivors body blocking bring perks what help you with survivor carrying
-survivors flashlight saving bring Lightborn/franklins
This is impossible to carry out. Just like survivors are not forced to bring specific perks to counter killers. You don't need Spinechill to beat GF, you don't need Calm spirit to beat Doctor. etc.
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If you have a problem with how I express myself, that's not my issue.
I never said killers shouldnt have a chance. If you read my post history, you'd see what I think is that weaker killers need to be buffed to a point every single one is as efficient as top tier killers so solo q can also be buffed to swf standards.
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Lightborn isnt terrible, it would completely counter the situation in the video.
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You really base the argument on this chart? Do you know what rank is the data from? Do you know how many hook happened? Do you any relevant attributes behind the data?
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At least I actually have some type of proof that the game is more Killer-sided. No one in this entire thread, that is 5 pages long, has presented any valid evidence except for me.
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Yeah I understand, I'm trying to document and log the perk usage of my killer games. Better than nothing.
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I'm sorry but those stats don't mean much.... By the logic from those stats, pig is OP and nurse needs a buff... which isn't reality.
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@Marigoria here.
Should I show some examples how the game is "killer sided" by showing really extreme situations?
@Munqaxus if anything, that chart shows things are balanced. 2 kills 2 escapes on average.
And this has been my experience since SBMM
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I literally never said the game is killer sided.
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Well you sure did imply it.
It's funny how you changed the subject when I asked you to show me proof.
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I agree, I think it shows the game is pretty close to balanced with a slight tilt in Killers favor, which is what I'm seeing with SBMMR also.
I just am tired of players say one side or the other is OP without any proof other than a Cherry-picked video, which in no sense of the word is evidence at all.
At least take some time and gather data from 40 games and give me some averages. That at least shows something.
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I don't think conspicuously not answering at every point someone asks "Okay, and is the game being dragged on for ten minutes because Survivors will not do the last objective bad?" is a sign of conversations going in circles.
I've thought that was quite a simple question, really.
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Some people dont really want to have a fair discussion they just want to claim they are under powered in a video game in a place that just milks that idea dry.
Use lightborn.
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