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I hate validation so much
But validation is against lagging killers, right?
Validation is probably bigger issue for me than CoH. I have under 30 ms ping, so I don't really feel like any validation is deserved.
I have lost a lot of games, because I got validated multiple times and that just sucks. Nothing can make me stop playing more than that.
Yes, I had option to wait here and bait DH, but that's not always an option when you are near pallet for example.
Comments
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Good old laggy DH, also called validation by some
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Well, using a perk that only worked 40% of the time bc the validation only accounted for the killer side was fair?
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Aww, that's awful... I went against a Billy who was lagging as hell once. I stunned him with a pallet, and one second later, he was behing me. It took him something like 30 seconds to pick me up. He wasn't baiting the pick up, it truly looked like he was stuck in the animation. Then, we stayed 30 more seconds under the hook. My wiggle bar was full, but he didn't move. And he disconnected... Or his Internet died most likely.
It's terrible when you think you have done the right choice, but your opponent is laggy/has a less better connection than you, and things like that happen.
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Where the hell did you get your 40%?
Well, that might be true if your ping is in hundreds, but that sounds like your issue.
You always have option to use DH earlier if you know you have high ping, but that is not always option for a killer.
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What we aren’t seeing is what this looked like from the survivor’s perspective. What presumably happens is on their screen they see a hit animation and immediately hit Dead Hard and the server is saying that’s actually what happened. Meanwhile the killer’s client has already started to show the hit animation and played the scream sound effect before it gets reverted.
The bigger issue isn’t hat validation gave the wrong result here, it’s probably what was supposed to have happened. It’s that Dead Hard is, now that it’s working properly, clearly overpowered as originally designed because survivors can 100% avoid an incoming attack by reacting to the swing animation, on top of being able to use the perk for distance to get to safety. Either of those effects would be a pretty solid perk on its own, but combined together they’re the most popular endurance perk for good reason. (An adding insult to injury there’s allegedly a hack out there letting people auto-Dead Hard when they are about to be attacked which just exacerbates how often you get apparent retracted results like in the video.)
Basically hit validation in general is ok, it’s just shining a light now on how powerful Dead Hard actually is.
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Old DH was about prediction and reading the killer to gain distance on loops
New DH with validation is about reaction to correct à mistake or waste more time with no drawback
For Honor went from à game based on reaction to one based on reading the opponent for à reason : thematches where more dynamic and felt better to play then just "wait for him to comit"
Thats how i feel about DH
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Whats really great is a DH validation into a pallet validation...really makes me want to play the game. /s
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Validation is honestly absolute BS especially on deadhard.
I used that perk forever on survivor and it did not fail a single time in any of my games.
Seems like it always was the issue of survivors having bad internet = high ping, but hey, bhvr gives them validation that basically messes up everything killer has earned and you have no way to counter the stupid behaviour of how validation works.
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My ping wouldn't matter when the killer's was in the hundreds and validation was one-sided.
Your New DH argument is the same killers used before the change when referring to DH for distance. Commitment is a two-way street and ATM, there is still a "read the other player" aspect involved in which the killer can bait a DH.
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Oh my. Of course, you NEVER were exhausted on the ground. This was on issue for years, but you NEVER had this...
And no, the Killer did not earn those Hits which get validated. Because otherwise they would not be validated. Before the validation, the Survivor just ended up exhausted on the ground. And you cannot say that the Killer earned that.
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Your Myers vid😭
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No I never did, because my internet is actually decent, and when I lag, I'm smart enough to press the button one second earlier. After all the outcome is always the same unless you are trying to dodge ranged killer hit.
If you know your internet is trash and you don't use dead hard sooner then it's only your fault.
Post edited by PleassBuiltInNoed on0 -
Funny is that with logic of how it should work, it should be possible to get DH exhaustion validated as survivor, right?
But It didn't happen to me once since validation... it's normal for me as a killer, but never as survivor. Weird...
It's like their validation is BS and they just shifted problem.
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Well, ok, server based hit-validation made the perk "more fair", but why is the killer stuck in a hit animation? If the game can roll back a down or injury, it should also end the "lets clean muy blade" animation instantly and let the killer be back in pursuit. This is what really grinds my gears :V
Ok, I didn't hit, I miss, but then please don't let me be stuck in this useless animation!!!11
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Let's be as clear as clear can be. If you were validated, you only got the hit on the client side. Client side is not authoritative and you were not cheated out of anything. It's as black and white as that.
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If hit validation is only supposed to help against laggy killers, why am I always on the receiving end of it? Validation is saying that every single match, I have a bad connection? No shot.
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Problem is that it doesn't happen to survivors anymore.
I didn't get validated DH, not even once as a survivor, but it's just normal for me as a killer.
Why should I get punished, because we see something different, when it's not because of me?
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Then why DH was the most used exhaustion perk even before validation if it was so bad?
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Bc it was consistent to create distance and on-demand. To use Lithe optimally you need to delay vaulting, which limited looping option. It's impossible to activate BL in certain maps (i.e. Shelter Woods), making the perk useless. SB on the other hand was the only one that came close to compete but it requires a lot of experience to use optimally. In fact, SB has way more skill expression than DH but due to its activation, it's easily wasted.
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So yeah, that sounds fair...
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My guess is that by the time the server gets the information from both players and does the validation the clients have already had to start their animations and sound effects. So those start going, then the sever sends a message saying “oops, flag on the play!” and the actual hit result is revoked.
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Yeah, ai though along that same lines. But you don't need any kind of imagination to see that this solution, again, leads to a bucket full of unfair situations; the blade wiping animation without any payoff is so punishing and every time it happens my heart sinks and a shake my head, while telling myself "this is fine, its just a game". But still, its very, very frustrating, and I wish that something, anything, could be done about it.
I mean, we have teleporting survivors after hit validation or downs all the time, so couldn't the server just end the killers animation with a prompt if it detected that our hit was, indeed, a miss?
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I experience the same thing as the killer in the video. I have a low ping and on a regular basis during my games m1 hits to a down get validated away to either a pallet stun after the down or to a dead hard and grabs get validated to a m1 by survivor that have double or more than my ping (i have 40 ms ping).
The thing is, it looks ridiculous, i downed a survivor today that was working on a gen, he was lying on the ground then rollback kicked in, he stood up and dead harded away. Not only does this hit validation take 100% valid hit away from you, you suffer the cooldown for a missed swing too, its a joke.
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Everything is fine.
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What the hell was her ping? :D
Playing from the Moon...
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So you know all of this persons experience with the game? Why is it every time you speak on a thread it’s always the nastiest most sarcastic comments I've seen? The person you responded to wasn’t even being rude.
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In all the years I've been on the Forums, Aven and I have clashed over a lot of issues.
I wouldn't describe any of our interactions (or interactions I've observed) as rude or nasty.
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Waiting for the usual white knights to come and defend this saying it totally is not based on the survivor client and is totally based on who sent the message to the server first.
Killers can only react on the information they are given and they are now being fed false information. While survivors have always had the option to use a perk or resource early and make decisions based on the killers ping to avoid hits.
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Well... thats the gimmick of the perk. Imagine if DH was only used for dodging hits. Imagine how ######### that would be compared to a dh for distance which effectively acts as a third health state.
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Much like fighting games, DbD needs better netcode. Get some Rollback - Input Delay blending going on there so this problem works as intended without being a constant headache of fake hits every game.
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I wouldn't even mind validation that much if it was just limited to basic attacks but because of how it can nullify killer powers altogether is a huge problem, particularly Nemesis and the Twins. Unfortunately the only way to resolve that issue is if the whole game switches over to server side and that'd require a hell of a lot more money being spent on servers which I really don't think BHVR is willing to spend. As long as Dead Hard remains how it currently is it's going to cause a lot of problems, nothing short of a complete rework is going to fix things.
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That’s actually a good point about the movement slowdown on a revoked hit. Technically the killer’s slowdown should also be revoked or at a minimum cancelled if the hit is cancelled.
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I have always seen only "missed" animation after validation. Never the longer one for succesful hit.
Thing is that it is just super frustrating to lose the game when I got validated multiple times, where I got those hits on my screen and I have really low ping, so I am basically punished for survivor's internet.
I have used DH a lot before validation and I never really cared about being exhausted on ground, I knew that how this perks work, I chose to use it, because it was still really good perk and I knew that I can get away with it even when it fails. But that is just not an option to killer, I didn't chose that perk, they did. I can easily lose the game, because one chase took 20 seconds longer than it was supposed to. It just sucks.
And I have yet to see validation as survivor, so far it was always as a killer. But it should be possible to see as a survivor based on their explanation. Maybe it's just BS and they just shifted the issue to killers.
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Yeah the killer still gotta read and bait the dead hard
But the suevivor just gotta react to get a dedicated hit out of it and get the killer to miss the hit tbh, thats the bad part about it
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Everybody saying “just bait Dead Hard” is only partially right. Yes, you can try and fake a swing bait it out, but ultimately the survivor does in principle have the ability now to react to an actual swing in time to Dead Hard it 100% of the time. The ability to react to a swing to make it miss is quite powerful.
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Problem is that you don't always have option to bait DH, you just have to swing sooner or later.
Then you also have pallet validation, that is not an option at all, unless you want to respect everything.
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That ping though
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Yeah, my point is: I don't have high ping, so why the hell should I get validated for it...
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That's why I advocate to entirely revert the deadhard "validation". SURVIVOR lags and gets rewarded, as long as the Survivor pressed E and would've been downed- they don't and get more invulnerability than the perk normally would've given in addition to the Killer's normal lunge being stopped prematurely resulting in even more stun time. Old Deadhard was fine, it's the servers that need fixing.
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It's quite a good point.
Validation will stop my lunge, but if it actually worked (survivor just dead hard), then I would often be able to track survivor with my lunge and down him at the end of Dead Hard. That works when DH is not used for distance, but survivor tries to go through me etc.
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