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How would you lot nerf/balance DH?
ive seen a lot of threads regarding DH, so here is another.
how would you personally rework/nerf/balance deadhead.
personally I would remove one of two aspects from it, as currently DH offers distance + I-frames, thus I would propose, one of these aspects being removed or altered.
I think, getting rid of the i-frame aspect of dh would probably be best, due to the numerous issues regarding i-frames, such as feedback, frustration on either side. because clearly the devs cant solve the issues such as incorrect feedback on players, or the frustration of either side of the player base, ending up exhausted on the ground or feeling robbed of a down on the killer side + incorrect feedback as a result.
Comments
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I think it's fine. No nerfs are needed.
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60s exhaustion.
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Ditch the invincibility effect
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The free distance is the porblematic thing about Dead Hard. Either add an actual requirement, or remove the distance entirely
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I've always said that exhaustion perks should require a safe unhook to activate so that they can't be used in the first chase when the killer needs to start building pressure to keep the game from being over in 4 minutes
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Thats a very good idea
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If they can't fix the validation issues, remove the i-frames. It should be a dodge, not a defacto third health state.
Distance is annoying, but it's more annoying when it futzes with powers or gives you fake hits that cause you to lose survivors.
120s imho.
No it isn't. It was arguably overpowered before the 'fix' (see: buff) and now it's so omnipresent that you almost never don't see it. If BHVR cannot fix the validation issues, then it's going to need to be balanced around them.
DH and CoH are the two abilities that basically every Fog Whisperer and honest player agrees are problematic right now.
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Either take away the invincibility frames or drastically reduce the distance it gives, we could get rid of Dead Hard validation entirely if it didn't have iframes. If you Dead Hard late, too bad, should have used it sooner.
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Either take away the iframes or move them later. Dodge before you're attacked, not as a reaction to everything that causes powers to go whoops.
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Take your pick from any of the following:
- Make it like Coup de Grace, and you build up one charge for every gen that gets finished.
- Remove invincibility to powers, and let it only sidestep m1 attacks (or use for distance mid-chase)
- Leaves a -5% movespeed Hindered effect after using it until you successfully drop chase
- Double or triple the recharge cooldown so survivors don't have it available every single time they see the killer
- Put a 30-45 second 'warm up' timer on it after you're injured before you can use it. So, you can't use it if you get hit and immediately get hit again, but if you're staying injured, you can use it just fine.
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I just don't see DH as a problem. CoH? I think it needs a nerf so that it doesn't stack with other perks and medkits. Maybe more is needed, but that's the nerf I would give it.
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I wouldn't change DH at all unless we're nerfing bullshit on both sides.
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I don't know what you'd change. Problem though is any change will probably kill dead hard.
Which will cause every survivor to run Sprint Burst or Overcome instead and killers will be complaining about them.
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Killers will complain anyway with any stuff surv would have.
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Exactly. SB is much better imo. I can't wait to see full lobbies of SB 😆
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I've never lost a Survivor due to the fake blood splatter. The distance is the most annoying thing in the world, as it's uncounterable
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Just take away the I frames and let it be used for distance.
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No more i-frame and can be activated only when healthy.
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Yep. Just about any changes will kill it. I guess that's what a lot of people want, though.
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That, in fact, would probably be long term healthier, because it would put emphasis on the problems most killers have in general: a total inability to get into chases against holding W.
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The perk is fine the way it is, the only frustrating part is the hit validation that seems to pass every time, the perk while it does grant the user distance, isn't as bad as sprint burst which in my opinion is the most annoying exhaustion perk in the game, dead hard when used properly is just a good perk and is only really good with really well loopers, waiting it out is good 90% of the time.
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I always use it but even I wouldn't mind if it was nerfed. I just don't see a good way of doing it.
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any changes to dead hard will make it worse than smash hit. it's a fine perk.
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I'd be very surprised if the devs can nerf DH without making it trash. It's a very tricky perk.
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Arguably the strongest survivor perk in the game and it takes almost zero skill and nothing has to be done to earn the perk other then being injured?
The biggest issue is survivors that use it to get to God pallets or safe areas. At high MMR Dead Hard is basicaly base kit, everyone uses it. They use it because it's a second chance that basically trolls the killer at this point because of how strong it is.
Why aren't the devs looking at Dead Hard the way they looked at old Ruin??? They nerfed old Ruin because it was used to much at red ranks and because new survivors struggled with the skill checks. Well what about dead hard pretty sure 75% or more of high rank survivors use it so whyyy aren't we touching it???
The perk itself might not even need to be nerfed directly. Remove 3 or 4 pallets from every map and it's an indirect nerf to dead hard because it can't be abused over and over to reach pallets as much.
As bad as DH is right now the unlimited blessing of Boons is even worse. Most unbalanced thing in the game at the moment IMO, COH, not the others.
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Remove this perk.
A stupid Second chance perk that shouldn't exist.
"oh #########, I was bad, I did it wrong but that's ok, I'm going to dead hard and go to another loop."
And another gen was done
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I cannot wait until they destroy Dead Hard and then survivors switch to an exhaustion perk that actually works 100% of the time. Killer mains have no idea how often DH just does not work, and there is still constant complaining about it.
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Make it required injured and a protection hit(Per Useage). It fits Davids theme and now actually has a requirement/thing to manage outside of just get injured
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Oh man I'm finally gonna get this down and a much needed hook for some pressure. Dead hards to pallet, gen pops, holds forward costing you another 20 seconds just to catch back up, another gen pops lmao. It's so damn lame and there's no counter play at all to this scenario.
But nerf deathslinger he has no counterplay. The devs don't have a clue.
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Remove the distance earned when using DH, replace it with a very short MoM effect if the killer hits them when its used.
There, now its counterable and more interactive.
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I also think removing the i-frames would be best.
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easy: give killers a DH perk as well. not exactly the same animation but a way to DH if they use the perk.
it will increase the tactical aspect of the game.
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Make it so you have either a 1.5 second hindered effect or you cant fast vault or drop pallets for 1.5 seconds as the animation implies you're lunging yourself forwards and almost tripping so you shouldn't be able to recover instantly.
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DH doesn’t need a nerf simply because some can’t/have not learn to deal with it.
Bottom line, just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it broken. Too many threads asking for it to be nerfed with a video showcasing how they can’t even wait before whiffing.
What’s next nerf Lithe because too many windows?
Nerf SB because you should have gotten a hit when a survivor finished a gen in your face?
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Can’t interact with pallets / vaults for 3/2/1 seconds after using dead hard.
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Make it only have immunity frames from basic attacks, that way it no longer counters
beartraps
chainsaws
hatchets
shocks
crows
tentacles
victor
punishment of the damnned
rushes
spears
shreds
kanabos
and puke
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Remove the hit Validation and the I frames it's a distance perk and it should be used as such
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Yeah buff DH which has become damn near brain dead atm but nerf a killer that requires people to know how to aim and set up properly.
No wonder some people can see this game as a joke at times.
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Balanced Landing requires an elevation, Sprint Burst requires good management of the exhaustion to be useful, Lithe requires a Window etc. All of these require either resources, or skillful play, unlike Dead Hard, which is a simple button prompt for free distance and invincibility
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Since DH for distance seems to be the problem, I'd say remove the dash, but in exchange, increase the I-frame duration a little bit, and if the survivor is hit during this time, he gets a souped up version of the injury rush. That makes it actually depend on killer/survivor interaction.
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I've made several topics about DH in the past and view some of its uses as problematic.
Personal feelings aside, I don't think it should be changed until validation is fixed and more data is collected after the killer powers and add-ons that counter/exhaust are functioning at an optimal level against it.
If they ARE going to change it, it should be changed in a manner that is based on accurate data and considers all factors.
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What do you mean? It used to be like this, now it works every time
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The big difference between Sprint Burst and Dead Hard is Sprint Burst denies chases, while Dead Hard extends them. If you see a Sprint Burst, you can just ignore that Survivor and focus on everyone else. Dead Hard extends chases when they're almost over, usually restarting the chase entirely, which means everything the Killer did was a waste of time
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Here's a tip
you can quote multiple posts in one reply; you don't need to do five posts in a row. That's basically spamming. <_>
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You're not going to 99 your Sprint Burst mid chase if the Killer is playing well
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Pretty sure they're just a troll account as 99% of their recent stuff is pure negativity.
Save your keystrokes.
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I think people are vastly missing the mark on the solution, even when they can see the problem- at least as far as I'm concerned, DH to actually dodge a hit can sometimes be kinda cheap but is ultimately the far more fair and counterable part of the perk, it's using it to simply gain distance and reach another loop that's the problem.
Now, first of all, we need to understand that Dead Hard is not the cause of this problem. Dead Hard is a symptom; the cause is strong loops and the extreme time deficit that the Killer operates in.
Even so, I think it's fair to nerf the problematic aspect of Dead Hard since you see it so often. Rather than removing the dash, which I don't think is particularly smart as an idea, I'd propose a brief (somewhere between 6 and 12 seconds) cooldown after using it where you cannot interact with a pallet or vault spot in any way. That way, if you really want to use it for distance, the value you get out of taht move is going to be much lower- but if you're using it to dodge a hit then this change doesn't affect you in the least.
Promote using it properly, over using it to gain distance, and its usage will ultimately still go down but it'll be a much healthier perk.
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That goes back to my point where the killer can just ignore the person using Sprint Burst and focus on other Survivors as long as it doesn't lose them the game. 99'd your Sprint Burst means the Killer chased you for way too long, which is a mistake on the Killers part, not a problem with Sprint Burst
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Yeah but do you ignore the person with SB on a gen about to finish, meanwhile you have a pop stack to use?
A person with DH would never commit to a gen in the middle of nothing because they can’t get away. Because essentially what is happening is they are being out positioned but this perk (SB) allows them to play unsafe.
So in theory it comes down to where the survivor is and timing (how fast you can catch up to them) as to whether a killer should commit to a SB survivor or not.
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1. It depends. If you know for a fact a long chase with a Sprint Burst isn't going to lose you the game, you take it. Seeing as, in your example, you have PGTW active, it means a Survivor is on a hook and another one has to go for the save. In that moment, 3 Survivors would be off of gens (hooked one, unhooker and the Sprint Burst user) which is a prime time to go chase someone using Sprint Burst.
2. Yes, Sprint Burst allows Survivors to play unsafe, which Dead Hard doesn't allow, however, sometimes it's needed to give up gens as Killer. If you have to give up a Generator that's in a dead zone due to a Sprint Burst user constantly trying to work on it, do it.
3. Yeah, but the state of the game also matters, as a long chase in an already losing game is going to ruin it even further
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