General Discussions
General Discussions
Ruin got nerfed because it was overused. When is it dead hard turn?
Ruin got nerfed because everyone was using it and it was too strong.
But dead hard? A Perk that gives you distance to a vault or just denies the down gets buffed instead of nerfed. Since hit validation is in this game I can't play one game where not at least 1 person has dead hard. It's more close to 2-3 survivors every round. So here is my question.
When ruin got nerfed because it was overused and was too strong when is it dead hards turn?
Comments
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Ruin is still overused.
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They just buffed Dead Hard, don't get your hopes up in it ever getting nerfed.
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I don't think a perk is nerfed because it's overused. As Huge_Bush said, they buffed DH not so long ago, and the perk was already overused before its new hit validation.
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Which ruin nerf are you refering to?
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They nerfed Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time multiple times, same with other exhaustion perks.
But why do they refuse to nerf Dead Hard? I'll never know.
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They literally said it (ruin) was nerfed because it was overused word for word
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Theyre gonna remove its ability to avoid Special Attacks, mark my words. Which still makes it very good, but no more eating tentacles or chainsaw sprints.
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I would hardly call it a nerf when its old effect was completely negated by just being good at skillchecks.
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That's simply not true. They simply gave the figures, never said anything about it.
The reasons of the change where clearly detailed in the devs' notes:
We took a close look at the perk to identify what makes it so frustrating to play against. Three key issues were identified:
- Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better.
- The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer.
- Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.
Source:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/117488/designer-notes-doctor-gatekeeper-hex-ruin
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The buff wasn't intended as a buff, it was a fix, so expecting a nerf to compensate the indirect buff is what a lot of us expect.
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Because they don't know how to nerf it. This is same for Nurse too. She nerfed multiple times and still people don't like her. She is still strongest killer in game. But BHVR does not know how to nerf. So probably Dead Hard will not nerf and they just fixed it little time ago.
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This was one reason. Killer Mains just like to pretend it was the only reason.
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If they don't know how to nerf Dead Hard then they're incompetent, I don't believe they don't know how to nerf it, if they could nerf an intringued perk like Object of Obsession then they can nerf Dead Hard.
There are a lot of ways to nerf Dead Hard all of them pretty simple and can be combined or not:
Doubling or tripling the exhaustion time after using it (my least favourite nerf).
Removing the dash and keeping only the iframes (my favorite nerf because this would prevent using the perk for reaching windows/pallets or gaining distance, the most broken thing of the perk imo).
Removing the iframes and keeping only the dash, so dashing toward the killer or against a wall wouldn't prevent a down.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Not exactly, they said it was overused true but they also said it applied pressure with 0 interaction and Ruin decreased in effectiveness the higher you were since old red rank Survivors could land most Ruin skill checks (which holds true, I remember landing around 80% of old Ruin skillchecks when you had to play against it in every match, high rank player just adapted to it), plus gen tapping was a dumb mechanic.
Mains always forget what they want to forget.
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She also has the lowest kill rate of the whole roster.
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The survivor meta hasn't changed in 4 years. So don't expect any significant (if any at all) nerfs for DH.
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Does not matter. We both know she is much better than this. But for healthy game, they both should change. Sadly they will not.
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This. it was a noob-stomper and y'all know how they feel about the new player experience in these matters.
I still see Ruin a fair amount, but it's reduction in use is due to boons more than it being less effective while it stays up.
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Thank you!
reading the OP I was rolling my eyes way too hard… I don’t get what people think they will accomplish by spreading misinformation like that and using it as the basis for their argumentation…
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Healthy game? I see a good nurse once in a couple of hundred matches.
Having 5 tournament level nurses on the planet doesn't really make her change a priority.
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If they said it literally then you have a source right?
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Yeah i know that was coming. It does not matter, no one should ignore the game rules and mechanics. Nurse is doing this. But before Nurse, game has bigger problems. So i will not complain about Nurse.
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Ruin was actually buffed and is more popular than ever before. It needs to be actually properly nerfed. It is too strong on high mobility killers especially.
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Old Ruin made things disproportionately difficult for newer survivors.
What WAS nerfed due to common use was Pop Goes The Weasel. The Devs straight up said: we see this too often and we want more things to be viable, so we're nerfing it. Now you have to go out of your way early to get any value out of it, instead of being able to continue chases and kick when it is convenient.
As for the OP's question: Never. Killer stuff gets nerfed immediately after buffs (look at Wraith), but Survivor stuff stays strong for years and years and year before it sees any attention (look at The Game getting gutted but Haddonfield remaining untouched. Or Moris getting trashed while keys stayed just as strong for a full year before they got the nerf bat).
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Ruin wasn't nerfed. New Ruin is stronger than old Ruin.
It doesn't stack with Pop or most other gen regression perks now, and I think that was part of the point, but as a killer who runs Ruin in maybe a third to half of my games, I'd rather have new Ruin than old Ruin.
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Honestly this seems like the most measured response here.
I don't like OPs initial sentiment, ie "they nerft ruin for overuse. Now please retaliate against DH.".
Balance shouldn't be a quit quo pro and gaining revenge of sort for slights against the own faction, HOWEVER even though peeps on the interwebs love to complain about nearly everything, with the mass of killer main complaints about the draining and oppressive nature of the core gameplay I honestly think that something needs to be done, and DH is one of the most grievous aspects.
I am forced to bait out nearly every hit against a wounded survivors, just in case they got DH, and its suxh5a versatile perk that can right now be applied to so many situations and problems.
They fixed DH, so that it now properly works, and I think a lot of people (probably correctly) feel that it works now too well.
If an option is vastly picked over anything else, so that it becomes nearly an auto-include/no-brainer, then that's a good indication that tje option is probably too strong, or stronger then most/any competing options, which is probably the case with DH. Of course, some survivors love balanced landing or lithe, but they play second fidel to DH.
Another perk with nearly identical pick rates to DH is BT. But while DH is very strong, I feel that BT is especially a band aid to combat tunneling. I don't think that it's too strong, but probably needed just to have some meaningful playing experience (having experienced it often enough myself how dumb tunneling without a cause or means out feels).
So, in conclusion: all (or most) exhaustion perks offer some means of faster mobility tied to the exhaustion mechanic and one other condition, be it falling down, vaulting a window or being wounded and pressing a button. But only DH gives invulnerability frames and loss of collision on demand, so I think that this part should go.
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DH. BT. Circle of Healing. These are the ones that you always see all game every game.
Of those, I really only want to see Circle of Healing nerfed into the ground. BT, like BBQ and WGLF, is extremely powerful, but exists to encourage good sportsmanship. DH is annoying, and you do see in every game, but I'm not a fan of nerfing every OP perk on either side of the game just for the sake of nerfing them. Game wouldn't be fun.
That said, the way suvivors spam boon totems, the amount of use they get out of them, and the fact that they're effectively completely uncounterable and can be used over and over again... something has to be done.
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That was the main reason but if you can't see that and can only see in black & white and us vs them then idk how to help you
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They said that was the main reason in a dev stream right before it got nerfed but sure
Mains always forget huh
I swear everyone on the form acts like theirs not a single person that plays both sides and that they are some magical unicorn and the only one
Don't be so naive
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Didn't Ruin actually get buffed? I wasn't around when old Ruin existed, but it doesn't seem that strong. Just hit a couple greats and your fine
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My main issue is that all these Hex perks were nerfed without valid reasons even though Hex perks should be strong since they can be destroyed. Yet now we've got survivors running around with ridiculous strong boon perks that they can just activate Infinitely despite the killer removing it.
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Last change was more buff for BT...
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Just remove the invincibility frames and we’re good
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Ruin wasn't really nerfed, if anything it was given a buff.
As for Dead Hard, I highly doubt that it will get nerfed, especially because of the recent DH validation.
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I would be fine if they finally gave us a decent perk to counter exhaustion perks.
#PleaseBuffBloodEchoandMindbreaker
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And lunges too i hope
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That's....not really why Ruin got nerfed.
I guess there aren't that many of us who were around back then?
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was ruin even nerfed really? It only slowed down the game against newer players and was still a hex that could be destroyed. Now it provides strong gen regression and pressure, while also requiring the killer to actually pressure and use the strength of it. It is pretty balanced AND pretty strong now.
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What rules does nurse really ignore?she has to Chase, 2 hits to down, carry to hook.
Characters that actually ignore game rules are characters like Pyramyd head who dont need to hook most of the time, Nemesis or trapper who can potentially down without chasing or pretty much anything that is an instadown which skips over the two hit rule.
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The perk Dead Hard will only get touched or fall out of the meta when BHVR deletes it and gives it to all Survivors baseline.
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Don't be silly, it took them YEARS to bring Decisive Strike into a fair spot.
I doubt they'll even touch the perk.
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This is the way to go, remove the dash and keep the I-Frames. I'd even give it a MoM effect, so distance is made, but only if the killer messes up.
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Overuse is not a reason to nerf something.
Ruin was changed, not nerfed. It was changed because it adversely affected new players and didn't affect experienced players at all. In fact, I would say I much prefer the new Ruin to the old Ruin as killer, since the new ruin affects experienced players and the old ruin wasn't a problem for older players.
Also, what does a Ruin change have to do with changes to other perks anyway. This isn't quid-pro-quo, Hannibal.
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More of a thing that they don't wanna nerf it so they shadow it by saying we don't know how
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Big lol. Ruin is actually way stronger than before.
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The easy way to nerf it is either....
1. Keep the I Frames but remove the distance.
Or
2. Keep the distance but remove the I Frames.
As it stand DH is too strong when Survivors use it for both invulnerability and distance. Top that off with the unintentional Hit Validation "Buff" it's now downright broken.
DH does need work to make it on par with other exhaust perks, because right now it's the only one that doesn't have any negative aspect to it. For example SB you have to be careful not to run or you waste it or BL that you can fall far or you use BL or Lithe you accidentally do a rush vault too soon and waste it.
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Last I checked ruin gets like 3 seconds of value since boons are a thing
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ruin was nerfed because it created a barrier of entry for new players.
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Nerfing something because it's overused is a bad reason to nerf something. Nerfing something because it's imbalanced is an actual good reason. All Exhaustion perks that don't have a specific requirement, Balanced Landing, Lithe, Head On, are all, in my opinion, completely broken and should not exist, though that's mainly speaking in tune to DH/SB.
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I know you ain't out here including HEAD ON in that.
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