Another update without touching noed, coh, and dead hard
Laughable. I can't believe we're going another update without touching these broken, disgusting perks.
Regardless if you think they're "balanced", or people should just "git gud", or "wait it out" or "do bones", you people need to understand that the majority of players hate these perks. And you need to understand that these perks hold back lots of players from enjoying this game.
If you want to be snarky and defend these perks, don't bother. I've heard all of your arguments already.
Circle of healing, noed, and dead hard need to change.
Comments
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I still dont see why noed would need to be changed.... Noed definitely does not fall under "broken" when boons are in the game.
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Absolutely agree. I don't really think any of those perks need a massive urgent change, but their power should be acknoledged and therefore they should be changed. Not to mention how mediocre the perk changes will be in with this update
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::nerfs Nemesis and Twins cause certain add-ons are used at a high %::
::ignores dead hard being used by 99% of survivors::
- devs
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NOED is fine. Any perk that can be completely prevented from being used certainly doesn't need a nerf.
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Because noeds effects are unfair. That feeling you get when you outplay survivor only for them to dead hard to a pallet? Thats the survivor equivalent of being blind sighted by noed.
Different from devour, as it's heavily telegraphed by the killer that they have it
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Exactly, those add-ons weren't even busted in the slightest. They literally gave qol buffs to their killers.
Meanwhile 4 dead hards a game
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I really don't care what you think about my "credibility". I hate noed and if you want to argue with someone about kt, argue with a person defending noed.
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it needs nerf. Becouse then we cannot gen rush and open doors. Its better to invest doing bones times into tbags at exit gates
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In disregard of any judgement of NOED's power level: That argumentation is very flawed.
If survivors had a perk where, if the killer doesn't run 3 laps around the entire map within the first 3 minutes, all survivors become permanently invulnerable, that perk would be busted and need a crapton of nerfs, even if it can be fully disabled.
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I truly doubt dead hard will ever get nerfed, I do agree it is op, as someone who shamefully uses it, it's come in clutch so many times it's disgusting. Older players or more experienced players prefer to play more for the 1-v-1 interaction, rather than doing gens, totems, etc, so if dead hard was to get removed it would mean that majority of players would have shorter chases and I can imagine it would make many people reluctant to play, so I guess the devs don't want to take the risk of losing players because I do believe that a lot of people would stop playing if dead hard was nerfed to a great extent.
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Wait, you think NOED is a problem and CoH and Dead Hard aren't?
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NOED might not be broken, but it's not a good or healthy design.
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That's like comparing apples to some fictitious fruit that would never exist.
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And more huge buff to survivors. This is silly and pitiful, killers buff are always minimalistic while survivors buff are huge.. just look at this patch notes, boil over and power struggle will be a big problem. Glad im not playing this game anymore.
And why the hell nerf Nemesis zombies? The devs LOVE to ruin killers fun.
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Not in regard to the argumentation. If you fail to consider anything but the fact that it can be disabled, you're missing a ton of context that relates to how powerful something is.
The alleged counterplay to NOED is part of the problem.
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Just so I understand noed which means the killer was without a slot all game, has a chance to not proc, even if procs can be cleansed is as broken as infinite fast heals that can be activated 14 seconds into match indefinitely and DH which can be used infinite number of times depending on how many times injured.
Not seeing it.
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Never fear! There is always tomorrow, and I don't believe COH or DH has appeared on the Shrine of Secrets yet!
Maybe the devs haven't forgotten, but their response may not be what you think!
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boil over and power struggle will be a big problem
Don't make me laugh. Power Struggle will continue to be a joke. No killer carrying a survivor will ever walk under a pallet.
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Think again. There are a lot of situations where you are forced to drop the survivor because another one is blocking your way. Having to reach only a 15% wiggle to trigger the perk it's a huge buff.
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Not quite. NOED can be disabled by regular game play. Survivors are meant to cleans or use totems or risk consequences like Plaything or NOED.
Your example is something that would never happen. Therefore it's not a counter to my argument.
Now, if you wanted to give a more realistic example like: "a killer can disable a survivor's exhaustion perks by hooking them and being more than 32 meters away when unhooked, but killers continue to camp and complain that exhaustion perks are OP and need to be nerfed" then there might be a discussion to be had.
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Certain, i love how people compare DH with Noed. Its like comparing an elite football player to a D division one. The thing is that Noed is balanced despite most survivors hate it, while to the contrary DH its not. That being said i woudn't mind the removal of both perks.
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So if these clearly broken Perks were fixed to be something you didn't think of...
What would you run? The same old same old (cause you are the type of player who doesn't use NOED, COH or Dead Hard)
Or would you run the nerfed versions of these perks? (cause the changes were actually good)
Or is it out of your hands cause the other side use those perks
Any way...
Yea I do think that Dead Hard is broken... Fix the animations/ information Killers receive
No I don't think COH is broken... It's really strong for what it does... Being relit repeatedly and Stacking with other perks needs to be looked at
NOED Hmmmmmm..... I don't think that it's broken but it can be strong.... I would change it to be Totem based (or token based whatever sounds better) and the more Totems that are left the stronger NOED would be... Blessing doesn't count against NOED:
5: Survivors exposed (either for X seconds or until the Totem is cleansed -Not Blessed-)
3-4: Speed increase by 7%
1-2: Speed increase by 3%
Those are some of my thoughts on those perks
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The same can be said with all the second chance perks why is NOED getting outed.
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I find all of them bearable. But maps and tiles, not. Like I always say.
People would learn very fast that game wouldn't change too much even if all of these were removed. M1 killers would still be looped to oblivion, solo would still lack coordination. Etc.
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I don't know about you, but games with dead hard, coh and noed feel VERY different from games without any of these perks.
Just because unhealthy and frustrating designs for perks can be bearable for veteran players, doesn't mean we shouldnt change them.
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I just like looking at bigger problems.
Ones that impact the game a lot compared to perks which people like to focus on.
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NOED: Is fine. Actually gets more use with boons in play because survivor cleanse totems less now.
CoH: Is fine. It makes a noise and killers can literally step on it and snuff it when they're in the area. It's like a medkit but sometimes survivors will literally use time running across a map to get to an active boon.
Dead Hard: Is also fine and finally works as intended. (I don't even use it because I don't need it)
None of these perks are OP
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None of Mikaela's perks or add-ons were mentioned this update so I'm guessing that just means her balance pass is scheduled for later, maybe the next chapter after this. It makes sense for them to do a full balance pass on a new character all at once some months after they're released so when they do finally release it we'll probably see a list of minor tweaks to her add-ons along with probably a nerf to Circle of Healing and maybe a tweak one way or another to Shadowstep and Clairvoyance and possibly a tweak to Boons in general if they found something in the overall system they think was problematic. (Almost all the complaints about Boons are due to Circle of Healing though so really if they nerf that one it addresses almost all the negative posts about Boons.)
So it's disappointing Mikaela's pass isn't this midchapter patch, but maybe next patch in March. 🤷♂️
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No? COH & DH are not fine lol, why do you think they're in every single game? 4 dead hards every game, 9/10 also has COH in it
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Boons dont even come close to the power of NOED tho. CoH's effect itself doesnt, it's area of effect does, but generally the closest survivor mirrors to NOED are DH and Adrenaline.
NOED's biggest issue, is that it makes an oppressive killer match even more oppressive. It rewards bad killers who are just oppressive enough to prevent totems from being fully cleared, but not oppressive enough to prevent gens from being finished. In either case, NOED isnt a punishment.
There are very healthy examples of NOED, but those kind of matches are often matches where survivors can communicate, tell where they have and havent cleansed, optimizing the totem cleansing time before finishing the last gen, and if they dont, they get punished for it.
If optimal survivor gameplay is the counter to NOED, and suboptimal survivor gameplay is the standard in public matches(even with the announced status changes, still gonna be suboptimal), then NOED is the issue.
It doesnt need big changes, just a change that's big enough to keep NOED as a punishment against certain players, without just being an oppressive tool that gains you kills for free in public matches. Heck, you could even treat it like Pentimento, where a killer just has to walk by any non-hexed totem(snuff it if its a boon and activate NOED after, all aura's being revealed in yellow), quickly press space and activate NOED and revealing NOED after the first down. This change wouldnt be great, especially since you could light up NOED next to a hooked survivor, but it would reintroduce the danger of not having cleansed totems.
In fact, I think that is exactly the change that NOED needs.
- Instead of trying to find some impossible to find dull totem to cleanse all 5, you'd just need to get rid of totems that are next to hooks or close to the basement.
- Instead of a killer camping a survivor all game in the basement and getting another kill through NOED due to a totem being impossible to find through sheer RNG, the killer would need to rely on totems not being done at all while he camps and find the nearest one.
- A killer downing an injured survivor and there being a yellow totem next to a hook would still allow for quick survivors to either sabo that hook, rescue their teammate quickly or simply get punished for not checking that hook for totems.
It would still validate builds that rely on NOED, still make NOED a punishment perk to those who play super optimal and dont cleanse totems, without being too much of a crutch for killers who simply got outmatched, still make cleansing all 5 totems to be THE way to get rid of NOED, still gives killers a chance on a very well hidden NOED etc.
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you're exaggerating if you think there are 4 dead hards in every game. like by a lot. You probably see Dead Hard about as much as I see NOED
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I would actually say if you DONT see at least 2+ dead hards every game, you are probably not at an MMR to be making statements on the games balance. Most overused perk in the entire game by a long shot.
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As a killer I used to use NOED on all my builds
Why you ask?
Because I didn't have the time or energy to grind out unlocking things like Ruin for my bloodweb. NOED is one good perk every baby killer can get without grinding like crazy. Last thing we need to do is scare off the baby killers.
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Maybe because they can get extra kill for more score? It's not like it gives them free 4K...
NOED is not used that much btw, Corrupt is used in 99% of tournaments games, should it be nerfed?
So do you think we should nerf every perk that is banned on tournaments, because it's too good? It's funny, there is banlist and NOED is not banned at tournaments, so maybe it's not as strong as you think?
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Funny enough even at what should be considered bottom MMR it is used over 80% of all games by at least 2 people.
I don't try to kill survivor anymore for the last 2 years and should be at the bottom and still see lobbies with 3/4 dh regularly.
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Its about using Flip flop or tenacity and crawl under the pallet. Noone would walk into pallet while carrying survivor but Power struggle value is from forcing pick up while surv is already under the pallet getting ready
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Meanwhile on shrine right now:
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Called it!
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It wouldn't be Flip Flop OR Tenacity, it'd have to be both, since Tenacity doesn't give you wiggle progress, and Flip Flop doesn't allow you to recover while crawling. That's a three perk build with a small chance of getting you free, which is blown if the killer just picks you up immediately anyway.
There's a reason Power Struggle was literally never used. The change made makes the whole build around it slightly more likely to work, but it's still unbelievably unlikely to ever fire.
That's not a bad thing, of course, Power Struggle is a really bad idea for a perk, IMO, but this tiny buff isn't going to make it work.
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Broken? Id say no, but it's certainly not fun to play against and has never led to an interesting gameplay experience only frustrating or pathetic ones. Honestly if they ever rework it I hope they make it stronger but with more counterplay then hope you and your team does every bone when there is zero incentive to do so before it pops since most people that use noed don't run other hex perks for that exact reason.
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I get multiple games with 3-4 dead hards in play. So i can say easily that its the most used survivor perk and the most broken one too, well CoH comes close being as broken.
Noed is fair compared to that perk.
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A perk doesn't need to be busted op to be changed. I don't think it needs a nerf I think it needs a whole ass rework, currently it doesn't really reward killers for playing well and I know it's meant to be a safety net perk but there are other perks that do it better and more fairly then NOED does. For survivor it's just straight up not fun to go against, I'm not one to buckle to bitching but if a large amount of players think something is unfun including people of just about all skill levels then maybe somethings wrong.
I don't even like the perk as a killer main I think it promotes a bad mind set , namely weakening yourself till endgame when the majority of your W's should be certain before it ever gets to endgame. It makes people rely on a powerful feeling perk that only works when. You are about to lose most times. I'd far prefer a perk that helps me throughout the match instead of only coming into play at the last minute. Plus good survivors will see NOED and instead of possibly going back in for a save and giving the killer a chance to snowball into a 2, 3, or even a 4k they'll either find the totem immediately and break it or leave giving the killer only 1 maybe 2 kills.
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Dead Hard is mentioned as well in this post.
And no, DS and Borrowed Time aren't just second chance perks. In many scenarios, they are the only perks for the hooked survivor to actually get a chance of escape in the first place.
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I just cant think of a change to DH and NOED that wouldnt kill the perks outright while keeping the spirit of the perks the same...
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Yes and no yes they are ment for escape but there are many who abuses it and use it as a barrier and such
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