General Discussions
General Discussions
Bubba's cosmetics
Why are they removing it? I really didn't understand the issue and love using the Smartface and Leaderface masks, I would appreciate if someone explained whats happening.
Comments
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Immature players were using the SmartFace as a tool to harass POC players and streamers, so now all masks have been taken away from everyone while those same players are just going to find another avenue to be toxic.
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Oh I understand, but wouldn't make more sense to have an option to disable tose masks in the options menu or something like that? I think this won't prevent targeting and sending racial slurs to those streamers.
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The argument for removing the masks is similar to the one for having a chat filter and report system at all. Do these things magically end all harassment? No, but they make it that much more difficult, and by doing so will stop a lot of harassment from happening. Just like the lock on your door doesn't make your home immune to burglary, just difficult enough to burgle to stop most people. Those who have a deep enough burning desire to be racist shitbags will still find a way, but the more "amateur" racists, if you will, are stymied.
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They should remove Wraith too then? He is black and you can do same thing with him.
Or you can use black survivors for target this streamers and players. Or you can use LGBT+ flag and you can target this community too. We should not lose content for bad people. They should ban them. Now this is just reward for them.
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Exactly, playing "thought police" is just as bad. Read 1984 by George Orwell.
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Please don't be facetious. I agree that the masks shouldn't have been removed and instead a different avenue was taken, but comparing blackface imagery to black characters is ridiculous, just like your pride flag comparison.
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It's because players are abusing it for their racist internet games and we get punished for it. There is compensation but overall we're not able to replace our lost Leatherface items with new ones. We still have a garbage report system and it's still a pain in the ass for people send in reports especially on console.
Those people in the video that Karu posted are going to get hate and it's not going to be regarding racism but they're going to be blamed for the loss of content without any actual improvements to the game. If BHVR took the time to improve the report system and chat filter this would be a + for everyone but overall it's either people don't care either way or there's just people who are happy the cosmetics are gone.
And yeah I'll be that person - Removing these mask won't make the game better in any way what so ever - We'll go back to the status que in a week. Because we still have a garbage report system. I'm saying this as a PC player I can't imagine the frustration a console player goes through because of it.
As long as BHVR or anyone isn't pretending racism will magically go away with the removal of these mask I won't take personal issue with it - I take issue with people thinking the game itself will be better without them. We lost cosmetics without fixing the actual issue or improving it.
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Next time when people use Wraith with same way, say this again my dude.
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My issue with the chat filter/mask removal is that it just hides the people who are the issue.
I WISH they had a better report system and then if you report somebody with clear proof (like saved chat logs after a report) that person would be banned.
With the current chat filters I have no idea if somebody is threatening me and my mother, or telling me gg and that I played well...
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'use Wraith' how? I'm serious, how would they theroetically 'use' Wraith to harass anyone?
You're being asinine.
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The "Racist People" that caused these cosmetics to be deleted are not going anywhere. So removing content is just band-aid. Problem is not going to fix.
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I do too, but then, I doubt this was an either/or decision. I mean, I don't think for a second there was a meeting where they said "well, we can fix the chat system or remove these cosmetics, gotta pick one". I remain hopeful that they will improve the reporting function with time.
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So basically a form of security theater?
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If that is how you view locking your front door, then sure.
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Ok, I watched 8 minutes of that video, definitely not the entire thing yet.
And every survivor that Leatherface camped was a white survivor. Now maybe they were stream sniped, but so far, there hasn't been any proof that even that happened. (Out of curiosity, how in the heck do you stream snipe, I've tried to get into my friends games before by continually going out and back in and have yet to be able to).
Again, I haven't watched pasted 8 minutes but is there any actual evidence in this video showing that these Leatherfaces weren't just doing what all Leatherface's do, camp and be toxic? There was 1 after game chat that was obviously racist but other than that, do they show proof it was intentional.
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There is a commonly used cheat that lets you stream snipe and is almost unnoticeable, but other than that there isn't much you can do to stream snipe other than trying to queue at the same time over and over again
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From what I understood its a just lazy solution that BHRV came up with to "solve racism"
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No one is pretending that removing the masks will "solve racism", it's the removal of a tool that facilitates discriminatory behavior, it's a preventive measure and it's definitely not going to put an end on racist behaviors, but it's not going to help it either.
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Why not making racist harassment in game chat as a perma bannable offense, including homophobia, death wishing etc? With the proof of screenshot presenting it and submiting it to customer support it should be possible to ban offenders. I also suggest to inform players by improving the description of in-game reports that racism/homophobia etc is a bannable offense and you can report players by that.
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The first step BHVR could take towards improving the report system is an automated ticket system for support. No matter what when a report is made in game a ticket automatically should open with each player ID listed with that players character and cosmetics used in game. If nothing is done to the ticket it's just a generic report. However this would enable people to conveniently add additional evidence if needed instead of having to go through the hassle on their own. All the report system would ask for is additional information such as your email or it would let you access the ticket from the menu to go to it later if you're a streamer and don't have time to do it now.
Bam - That alone and the report system is instantly 10x better because it takes the main inconvenience of reporting away. I'm not even asking for BHVR to record matches with a replay system. Just make the initial filing of a support ticket for harassment + cheaters easier.
And yes - These go hand in hand with the issue being people causing issues in either field means I'm filing a ticket either way.
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Death wishes and threats are already perma bannable:
Discriminatory comments are a temporary ban, but keep in mind it always goes into the escalation process, so it can lead to a permanent ban if done multiple times.
And as mentioned in the screenshot, screenshot and ticket are optional for this kind of offenses, but they help the process.
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I don't think discriminatory comments should be still resolved in temporary bans. It would be a really good step to change it as the permanently bannable offenses without any warnings whatsoever. The second problem lays in fact that the offenders, even after being reported in customer support from a months ago are still able to play the game. This is really questionable why is it possible...
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How did they "use" a cosmetic to harass anyone? Someone took offense because they themselves perceived it as harassment. That's what sjw type people have done sadly. And even sadder still is the fact that it's believable that they would also victimize themselves further claiming that playing as a black character can be grounds for harassment
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Isn't Slinger of Irish descent + experienced racism when growing up too?
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Shhh, not now, he's got a half-baked low information take on an issue he doesn't understand to get out there, don't go ruining it with "facts"
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im sorry but its quite literally the end of the first sentence, twice within the first paragraph. how can you miss that?!
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So basically, "If it doesn't end racism once and for all, there's no point in doing anything." Are you ok?
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congrats on being wrong!
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Garbage take
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You and your fancy reading. You mean you don't just look at the character model once and decide you know all about it?
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They only removed the aspect of wearing a face, which is a core character trait and lore, but did nothing to actually stop the actions of the players responsible.
They can continue to do the same thing just without 1 cosmetic. Where is the logic?
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Remove Smart Face but leave the other faces. Why remove all the faces, just remove the offending one. Maybe add some new faces like Ace, Nea, Feng and David.
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People are requesting "Smart Face" be removed because it's being used as a discriminatory tool. If Behavior feels this is an issue, then remove "Smart Face" with that statement.
Behavior isn't singling out "Smart Face" because they are racist, racists are singling out "Smart Face" and the developers are removing it because of that.
There's a distinction.
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Here is why I don't understand that line of reasoning.
If a group of people are using 1 cosmetic in a discriminatory fashion, then removing that cosmetic makes sense. However, removing part of the cosmetics and not removing all cosmetics does not make sense. Leatherface has 2 other "faces" that aren't being removed. If we are going with that line of reasoning, then all cosmetics should be removed.
Everyone knows Claudette is being singled out. There's no question about that. Say "Smart Face" is getting removed and why and be done with it. It's not racist to remove a cosmetic because it's offensive to a group of people.
Partially removing some faces and leaving others, when everyone knows Behavior is targeting "Smart Face" is just asinine at this point.
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But Claudette is being singled out for her skin color. That's exactly what's happened.
I mean, I understand the argument for removing all four, because that's "equality," but it's also just showing that a group of people can abuse one thing and ruin multiple things for the entire playerbase. Which is exactly what trolls want, so, I guess good for them, they've discovered a new way to make DbD miserable. I've already seen talk elsewhere about what cosmetics they're going to try to get banned next. This will be their new goal, the harassment won't change or die down, it'll just take on a new face (that's not meant as a pun).
This entire thing is a huge mess. It sucks that trolls exist at all. They're only goal is to make others miserable, and they'll target any minority to do it. They'll take anything they can and ruin it for as many people as possible. The more people affected, the better. The people who were abusing Smartface to begin with are laughing and enjoying this so much right now.
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This can not happen because so much work. Removing content is more easy. But don't upset, you can enjoy with 6000 Shards!
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Who said anything about Neon Legion? They're looking for a way to target LGBT+ players next, from what I've seen. Will they be able to pull it off? I don't know, but they'll try, which means they could be targeting and harassing LGBT+ players with a vengeance. I hope that doesn't actually happen, no one deserves to be harassed and LGBT+ players already have to deal with that.
"Other in-game cosmetics don't have this same connotation"
Today. I would never have predicted that a bunch of internet trolls would take the "okay" hand sign, claim it's a symbol of hate, and make it true, but they did. People can take any symbol or word and give it a new meaning at any time.
This argument isn't even worth having, because the masks are being removed and that's that. I don't get to wear my Meg mask anymore because a bunch of [BAD WORDS]s used a different mask to harass players and there's nothing I can do about that. And I just unlocked Dwight back in December. What a waste of my time. And the devs won't release a new set of non-problematic Leatherface masks because that could still be interpreted as singling people out. The playerbase loses out on something that was unique, something they could earn through gameplay, and there's nothing they can do about it. It just sucks.
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While I don't condone harassment, I'm wondering just how prevalent is the scenario of Bubba with smart face tunneling POC survivors, and if anything racist was being said in the end game chat.
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Ban tools because you can murder with them.
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I wasn't "suggesting" it, I was saying I've already seen the people who abused the Smartface cosmetic (or who at least see a new way to cause trouble) discussing doing exactly that. Whether they actually go through with it and escalate the harassment of minorities in new ways, I can't say for sure because I can't travel to the future. If they don't do it, great. But I'm not creating this from thin air like the term "slippery slope fallacy" implies.
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You know...idk y I thought POC was referring to people as piece of crap survivors. But now I realize they meant people of color 😂.
I have no idea how often it happened in games though. I don't believe I've ever seen it.
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I didn't say they would get removed, I said people might try to get them removed. People can still do damage without succeeding. Which has me today looking at cosmetics I was thinking of getting and going, "Nope, not buying that for now," because even if it doesn't get removed it could become associated with a bad group of people and then I wouldn't wear it anymore, anyway. So, I'm waiting to see what the future holds. There are cosmetics I like that I don't buy just because they're associated with annoying in-game behavior, which is like nothing compared to actual hate-group behavior.
Anyway, it sucks that content is being removed from the game and no new content is replacing it. Simply removing all four masks feeds the trolls, removes a unique feature from Bubba, lowers the amount of content in the game, and punishes people who did nothing wrong. We lose four masks and get some shards in return, which can't even be used to buy Bubba cosmetics. If Bubba got some kind of new earnable cosmetics, then that'd be something. Earnable cosmetics are fun. The game needs more, but now it simply has fewer. Shards as the only compensation is the easy way out.
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