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Perkless + 30s AFK Challange
Here is some stats from different killer streamers. What do you think about this stats and Otz's conclusions. Please be respectful while discussing.
Comments
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I expected Tru3's results.
14 -
That MMR was a waste of time and energy better spent elsewhere.
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I don't think anything. I watched all of Otz's games and I just feel like this whole experiment wasn't addressed for me. Like, sure, if you do well with a killer, you can be a force to be reckoned with, especially playing certain killers on certain maps.
I still feel like most maps and most killers are making the survivor's job too easy, but on the other hand, it is very hard to not make mistakes as a survivor (and in solo it's almost impossible), so it's maaaybe okay?
I think Otz himself said smth like "This game is balanced, but in a very sick way. In 1 game the killer brings the best addons/perks and destroys the soloQ team, next game you're up against a competitive team with legion on Badham. Balanced...? I mean, 1 win, 1 loss... But.... yeah. not great
It would be really nice to see still buffs for certain killers that need them. Rework some absolutely insane maps.
Make some killers less clunky to play! The last changes to Plague were amazing, for example. Removing the annoying slowdown of hers when you didn't charge enough is an amazing change, and now with the Nurse bugfixes is also kind of what I'm talking about. Twins, for example, feels very clunky to play. I'm not even talking about buffs here, I'm talking QoL.
Also, unfair mechanics, like locker flashlight saves.
I guess I just feel like killers don't get enough attention, especially this mid-chapter is weird. The last one was great tho, except for deathslinger
8 -
Oh I understand how you feel about killer’s being on the short end of the stick when it’s comes to either buffing or nerfing something. But yeah I also thought some the stats were a little weird but then again everyone has a different experience with the SBMMS. I personally don’t like the SBMMS we have now cause I think it’s not good for this game like everyone has said.
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Don't look at what the killer did but what the survivors did. That's all i have to say about the comparison.
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Otz admitted it's balanced but his wins were by playing dirty (tunnel, slug, camp, etc). Otz also points out the killer doesn't have room to make mistakes or they lose. Survivors can make a ton of mistakes and recover. The killer makes 1 or 2 mistakes and the game is lost.
So imo the point here is, bhvr seems to have balanced the game for casual survivors but not casual killers. Casual survivors have a lot of strong tools they can use with little skill. Casual killers just get stomped by average survivor teams. Streamers with 7k+ hours in game don't speak for the majority of killers just like they don't for the majority of survivors.
12 -
Killer does have room to make mistakes, in a lot of his matches you can see him make mistakes, but it is about punishing mistakes. He would be losing a match then one survivor makes a mistake and he snowballs. It all comes down to skill and decision-making. While not everyone is a 7k hour streamer, his point stands that with practice and good builds, winning isn't hard. People just usually play poorly, or run meme builds then act surprised they don't win
2 -
Otz also played very sweaty (forcing 2nd stage or hard tunnel ) when needed. Also said killers do have option to play how they like or want and should use it if they need to.
Kinda interesting but true
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Is tru3 bad or does he just not want to sit at a hook like the others?
Post edited by Rizzo on13 -
Its otz take this with a grain of salt that guy know all the map like its his backyard and he play this game everyday 6h a day. Most of the player are average and using high mmr is worthless because you cant compare otz mmr to the top mmr of other player because its like comparing a challenger player in league of legend to a pro player its not the same and both are at the top of the game.
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To be fair, if I read the Forums, many say the game should be balanced around the Top players. So, the argument that Otz is a very good player is not really valid, in fact, according to the logic of those who want to balance the game around the Top, every Killer should be as good as Otz, otherwise they will get worse results.
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KnightLight's results don't surprise me at all. He's won around $10k combined from DbD tournaments.
Keep in mind most of these players are genuine top 1% of the top 1% killers and MMR matchmaking varies widely.
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tru3 played significantly harder opponents than Otz. I can't speak for the others. Comp teams were sniping tru3 while he was doing it. He also didn't camp and tunnel and tried to play for max hooks
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tru3 didnt camp and tunnel like otz did. i watched the full tru3 vid and most of the otz vid. otz played "scummy" tru3 did not.
Post edited by Rizzo on6 -
The latter. The whole point of the experiment was to show that killers can give survivors every possible advantage and still get kills if they play in the scummiest, least fun way possible. TrU3 played for hooks like he normally does, so his "results" are not comparable with the other killers that took part. Also Knightlight didn't do the AFK part so his results are also invalid.
Basically this whole experiment was a giant fail and told us nothing that we didn't know already.
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You mean the rumors that after his 8 hour dailly playsession he plays another 8 hours tanking his mmr?
I know some people think of Otz as superhuman. But the dude still needs to sleep and eat
Post edited by Rizzo on12 -
I don't believe Otz tanks his MMR offstream. He is streaming during prime hours when there are an abundance of survivors and the queue times are long. The matchmaking throws out the MMR in favor of faster queues, so Otz is basically playing in the old matchmaking system when he was getting 50 win streaks constantly. tru3, however, plays during morning/mid-day and he faces significantly more meta efficient teams, both solo and SWF. This mirrors my own experience with killer. When I play in the morning or afternoon, I get efficient meta squads over and over again. When I play during peak hours in the evening, I get tons of potatoes, bad SWFs, and solo teams with the occasional bully squad.
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You cant balance the game around only the top it wont work. You need a mix of both the top and the middle mmr and for that it take a lot of effort and patch, thing the dev prove to be bad at.
Clown pinky finger is a good nerf top mmr it take that if you want to compete but mid and low mmr its overkill. What is bad about that nerf its if you equip the pinky finger you cant use your yellow bottle anymore.
The time it will take to the dev to realise some killer need better QoL improvment is long and when they decide to work on that it take so much time the player base forget about those change and say this is not the priority.
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How can you explain they are games where he is facing only 1 dead hard, no ds and some survivors have green or even yellow non meta perks ? These rumors don't come from nowhere, I wish I had this kind of survivors.
Also derankers know how to stay afk without playing themselves.
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I play on the same server as Otz and I can confirm that in EU region matchmaking experience is more or less as you described.
I play morning or early afternoon and the quality of survivors I verse tends to be higher. It gets ridiculously worse and worse as you move later in the day. As in, the rare times I play later than usual, it doesn't even feel as the same game.
Tbf to Otz, in the tweets he does say that matchmaking is inconsistent. It's just that picking different times of day to run this challenge will heavily skew the data, which can't be overlooked.
I did watch Otz' matches and simply many of those survivors were worse than AI. There's no amount of skill that will allow a loadoutless 30-sec afk killer to not get stomped if the survivors have enough brain cells to find their m1s.
With that being said, I do agree with many of the points he makes, but those conclusions are not proved (nor disproved) by this challenge.
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Regions
I don't know exactly when Otz streams but i do know that players are relativelly chill here in europe at certain times.
think about it. How long would he have to afk before counteracting his 8 hour streams?
Don't you think there would be a ton of people who would see him afk? Who would instantly post online when a popular streamer afk's against them.
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its really sad how otz himself says that tru3's numbers are low because he didnt play scummy, but everyone is attacking tru3 on thread. its like bro he played nice and got punished for playing nice. doesnt mean hes bad, just means hes not playing like a jerk.
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I agree it does not mean he is bad, but it does imply he did the challenge with an agenda to make it appear harder to win. Every other person that has done it played to win. For the past month tru3 has been playing to win, even using NOED to his dismay, so why would he randomly switch back to playing nice for a challenge in which you are supposed to prove you can win?
I feel like if you go into that kind of challenge with a markedly different attitude than the rest it kind of muddied your results.
5 -
I myself have been attempting to play with no perks/offerings/add-ons (without 30 seconds AFK).
Out of 10 games so far I got
- 10 kills
- 28 escapes (lol)
- 1 hatch
I'll post the full results after 20 matches, I think - but so far it's not going well 🤣
This is at 700hrs with Pyramid Head
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More evidence that the SBMM is utter thrash. I know, what a shocker.
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You should do this challenge too
DO IT
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I would say match making I was playing survivor the other day and I have about 700-800 hrs in game and one of my teammates had 10 and the other had 60.
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Full disclosure, I feel True is better than the other streamers and I think lesser of the people who genuinely believe he is bad. HOWEVER, refusing to play win conditions does lose you games. If you want to win against high mmr survivors, you need to camp and tunnel properly.
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I am from europe too. Watch his video dude. Look at his nurse match where he got 4k for exemple, he got the game which is insane for nurse. Survivors perks were : only 1 dead hard, 0 ds, 1 UB (yellow) and only 2 BT (1 yellow tho). This is NOT what high mmr looks like at all. I am nurse player in EU and I extremely rarely get less than 3 dead hards in my games.
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Ok I'll be honest i don't watch his video's religiously (dude post like 5 hour video's sometimes, my attention span can't handle things like that) so i don't have a good idea of the survivors he faces.
Just saying IF he tanks his mmr then it won't be by afking, people would notice that.
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You don't have to watch the whole video, skip to the end of each match and see the perks for yourself. I am not saying it is for every killer, but they are games you know immediately there is no way it's high mmr and probably medium - high.
And I don't blame him, it's his job I know it can be stressful to play killer all day with ton of people watching you, but be honest. He is deleting every comments on youtube on the subject and and will ban you off his discord asap if you dare to ask a question politely regarding his weird match ups.
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right but tru3 on principle doesnt like tunneling and camping and has preached for years the game should be balanced around hooks, so he played as such. also 90%+ of the time he is playing killer he is playing fan builds. I watch him nearly every day and have yet to see him ( other than an odd one off theory crafting build) play a build which he picked that included noed
2 -
Doesn't knightlight also use stretched res which entirely invalidates his entire experiment by introducing a variable factor not present in anyone elses experiment?
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I just don't see the point of this experiment. Is Otz trying to prove that the game is not that survivor sided and most games are winnable? The devs stats of kill rates already proved that, with 53% kill rate overall.
The only thing I get from this is that MMR is the same mess that the rank system was, if not worst. It seems the time of the day influences more the outcome of the match than MMR itself. Like, there's no reason at all you should win a game at 5 gens without something like Corrupt and staying AFK for 30 seconds besides the survivor being insanely bad.
I don't think Tru3 is as good as he think he is, but Otz is not really that much better than him. From what I see the time of the day that Tru3 plays he gets way better survivors, like I was watching him play solo for an entire stream these days and most matches his team gets 3/4 escapes consistently, and he's not even that good of a survivor (I get tilted because he almost never looks behind while looping). Meanwhile Otz gets demolished whenever he tries survivor because it seems the time he plays MMR just dies and potato mode assumes its place.
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This is what I have been saying for a long time. It is the whole reason why survivor players that know how to take advantage of everything designed for casual skill survivors are so strong.
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All it really shows is if you play the game 8 hours/day for years you can pretty much win regardless.
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Wow, a whole 8 hours playing video games. It's a wonder he can even get out of bed in the morning, he must be Superman.
What do you do after work?
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I don't know how this forum can be full of post after post stating how "camping are tunneling are viable strategies", and "killers don't have to play by the survivor's rulebook", but then when things like this come around it's all "...BUT HE HAD TO CAMP AND TUNNEL, THIS DOESN"T COUNT!!!!". Seems OTZ point is quite apparent and well founded, the game isn't necessarily survivor sided, it's just that the meta is stale and not good. We need balancing changes but we also need to make certain things less powerful, and this includes some of the tools killers have.
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There are two possibilities for Otz that I see. The first is that Otz spends eight hours streaming, another 8 hours playing anonymously to tank MMR, doesn't completely burn out for some reason, fits sleeping and all daily life activities into eight hours and still can get survivors with thousands and thousands of hours in matches for some reason.
The second possibility for strange match ups is that SBMM isn't working as intended.
Imo, I think the second sounds a lot more likely.
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They are others possibilities to lower your mmr without playing yourself (or anyone playing) but again that's not the point of this thread and making the promotion of it is against the rules so please stop using this argument.
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Wot I lerned:
- Otz is crazy good at this game.
- Survivors are extremely BM when they win, even against someone as big as Otz.
- Map plays a huge role in winning this game as killer.
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Seeing...where?
This sounds like something you've fabricated wholecloth.
The EU server is known for Kafka matchmaking. Are you saying that a guy streams for 8 hours a day and spends another 8 hours smurfing his account down? Otz is a huge name, probably the most recognizable DbD streamer out there. Smurfing his MMR down would take tons and tons of games, and there would be hundreds of videos of 'Otz AFK in my game' videos.
Remember when a Fog Whisperer was caught smurfing under ranks? That was a ton of drama. And that was a much smaller name than Otz.
This honestly seems like a petty vendetta of some kind.
Playing 8 hours of the game every day, then spending additional time smurfing...that's a ridiculous commitment for something that could be easily found out.
I watch a lot of his stuff. Most of his games are wall to wall meta perks.
I also watch other pretty high level streamers, and it's about the same. Every now and then, SBMM poops the bed.
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I can confirm second. MMR is weird for me. Sometimes i am winning so much but after this wins, i can get baby survivors. But last week i died 30 games as survivor. I was testing MMR, so i did not escape even we finish generators. After 30 loses, i tried 5 games. And i still had +1000 hours killers and teammates. Just 2 match i think i had baby killers and teammates. MMR is not working great for sure.
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Tru3 result will probably be even less reliable than Otz. Not that he is bad or anything but that guy has been constantly sniped by SWF sweat squad on stream. He should do the test off stream tbh.
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Actually Tru3's results are nothing for me. Because when he wants sweat, he can do better.
For this challange, goal was kill as you can. You can sweat. You can camp, tunnel or slug. But he played without without sweat against sweaty survivors. But i can see him point. He wanted show this: You can not win without play abjectly.
Otz played so sweaty and he won most of games. But Otz's way was not fun for me. I wanna play like Tru3, no camp or tunnel but i wanna have chance to win. But it is so hard at high mmr.
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My point of contention with, I guess I'll call it the tru3 agenda, is that the whole premise is trying a playstyle the game isn't intended to be balanced around and still using said playstyle to draw balance conclusions from it. He's basically saying "I don't want to have to play well at a macro level to win". Game management is 75% of killer skill at a high level when everyone has good mechanics.
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If I recall, it was one part of a wider experiment. He, Otz and anyone doing this first did killers with the meanest addons, offerings and perks they could think of, then putting themselves at a disadvantage to simulate an absolute 'worst case' scenario.
It's not a scientifically sound research project or anything, but establishing the margins is actually a good first step for this sort of thing.
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This feeds into what Otz said though.
The balance at high MMR is basically propped up on strats that are awful to play against. Bully squads and BNP/Toolbox spam on one side, slugging, tunnelling and camping on the other.
You can either be competitive or have fun, and they're pretty much mutually exclusive.
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Not playing games for 8 hours for sure. Adult stuff is hard dude. If i played games for 8 hours after work i'm sure my appertment would crumble to dust in a month and my fridge be empty for all eternity
Otz i believe also has pets and a wife (?) So they also need time invested in them.
I like gaming more then avarage people but if 8 hour gaming sessions dailly doesn't seem excessive to you, especially when your job already is playing games then it might be time to think if you don't have a problem
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Bully squads get wrecked at high mmr. It is really the gen rushing that works more so than trolling the killer...
1
