Unfair last survivor insta-death on hook
Comments
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jesus this thread is becoming really aggressive and non-constructive.
the game could literally stay as it is except make phase 1 hook accessible to the last survivor, lasting 10 second and an attempt at escape taking away 4. he could fail and die instantly when reaching phase 2, he could succeed and immediatly get hooked again, or he could succeed and manage to survive if he has the right perks.
you don't like second chance mechanics? fine, make a thread in suggestions about it. because this mechanic ALREADY EXISTS, so there is no point in complaining about it. what's dumb is the fact that it exist but you can only use it when daddy BHVR says so, because they decided to make a band-aid fix to BMing instead of fixing the underlying issue.
either make it accessible all the time or delete the mechanic from the game. peace.
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There was one time against a Mikey that my team was trading hooks while I worked in gens. I did all 5, one was worked on by teammate for final few seconds and I healed them before they ran back over to the others with the killer. 2 teammates had been sacrificed as I finished the last gen and as I was opening the door the last teammate was downed (this was also before EGC). I stayed in doorway as I thought of how to go save the last teammate, could hear Mikey breathing nearby before he turned around back to the downed teammate across the map. I didn't realize he had bloodwarden until it closed up behind me as that teammate was hooked. It was only their 2nd hook, I started making my way to save them but Mikey showed up. He downed me but instead of taking me to hook away from the exit he actually hooked me closer with a window behind me that faced the exit. I think his plan was to taunt me but I got lucky with 4% since my teammate was still in the game struggling. Since Mikey didn't expect it he whiffed a hit when I hopped through the window behind me and by this point Bloodwarden had worn off.
I always think of that escape when it comes to discussions about the last hooked survivor not being able to attempt escape. If they unhook themselves they could very well make a play to escape - that is why killers are very much against this because there is that chance, even if it is small, that they will not be guaranteed a kill with that last survivor. There is more of a chance of getting more BP thanks to extra chase, down, and hook but it's not about the BP - they want the guaranteed kill of that last survivor.
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If you were to do that, the game would need to force you to use it immediately in order to stop the needless stalling that already plagues killer QoL. As others have said, it’s a pretty fringe case.
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Yes, well, in the proposed scenario the killer already did everything they had to do to get that kill, but then random chance decides they don’t get it after all. Call it killer-sided all you want, but you do realise that feels shite for the killer, right?
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If you are last survivor and already hooked, you don’t deserve the chance. Plus all the other reasons people have already said. Like using the time to troll.
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I say opposite, last survivor should be killed instantly after 3rd death of the survivors and hatches should be deleted.
more teamwork, no time to waste! Yay!
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Not even then.
It used to be like this. And accidentally kobing to then get smacked down instantly and slugged for 2 minutes cause the killer wanted to make absolutly sure you didn't have ds when all you wanted was just go to the next game sucked hard.
It was bad for survivor and killer alike outside of the 1/100 times the survivor actually could escape. And even then it felt like a cop out for the killer
It changed for a reason, it's not changing back.
Also same deal if you have deliverance but somehow end up as the last survivor without getting hooked then in most cases you really don't deserve it anymore. Use your perks when they are relevant.
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Because it was intentionally changed to be this way so that games end instead of being drawn out.
Same reason why egc was added.
Honestly if you are consistently getting to the end of the game with 0 hooks you really should be taking hooks for the team. Try to force the killer to spread out hook states instead of leaving your teammates to die.
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And you do realize it feels crappy as survivor to die on first hook without being able attempt to escape, especially if they had Deliverance to guarantee the unhook? Like I said originally, only thing that killer cares about is the guaranteed kill which is why killers will always argue against last survivor being able to attempt escape.
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They should just have the survivor auto attempt their chances and then intsta-kill them if they fail
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only thing that killer cares about is the guaranteed kill which is why killers will always argue against last survivor being able to attempt escape.
Or maybe it's because, even if you have Deliverance and DS; Killers will just hit you, slug you, and wait 60 seconds? And the chances of being hooked within 1 minute's crawling of an open exit gate is basically 1 in 100 matches.
But noooooo! It's definitely because Killers are just greedy jerks who want a free kill. Because logic is not allowed. 🙃
Edit: Fixed a rather iffy typo. 😳
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M1 to down. GG.
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So if chance of successful escape is 1 in 100 why not change it to let last survivor attempt escape? As killer get extra BP in this grind heavy game from chase, hit, and hook if they do successfully unhook but don't make it to the exit. The reason to argue against it is the possibility of losing that guaranteed kill in 1 in 100 matches.
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I can understand it feels crap for the survivor, but they're already on that hook when this is relevant. They've already lost a chase to end up there. And if you're on your first stage as the last survivor, something went wrong.
What's requested is a chance to change the outcome of the match right then and there. A chance that is not only very slim, but even if succesful, has a substantially higher chance that the killer will slug, wait out various timers, whathaveyou just to achieve the same end result. And even if that doesn't work, it's a massive middle finger to the killer. It's shite for one party either way here.
We all know how many complaints are made about second chance perks, and I really don't think we should this on top of that.
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The reason to argue against it is the possibility of losing that guaranteed kill in 1 in 100 matches.
No, it's not. Unless you're trying to dismiss the actual reasons given in this thread in a bad faith argument.
If 1 in 100 matches ends with the Survivor getting away; The other 99 matches are Killers being forced to wait for 2 minutes as Survivors drag out Phase 1 and 2 of the Hook solely to spite them.
Source: This. Is. What. Happened. When. The. Game. Launched.
It's been said in this thread already. Repeatedly.
But nope! You just claim Killers are against it because selfish. Which means you either did not read the thread, or ignored the actual facts so you could pretend you had a point.
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With these talks it's always assumed "the killer did everything right in the game and deserves that kill" when many times they didn't play great, it's a team of solos, someone was left behind thanks to NOED and other solos don't want to risk their escape for random. The survivor could be on first hook at end of game because the killer camped, they were unluckily downed by NOED at gate as everyone else left and now they're on hook. They focused on gens since "that's what you're supposed to do if killer is camping" but unfortunately they were the one to get hit.
The "oh, don't want to slug the survivor for a minute if they unhooked because DS" is a laughable excuse to me when killers have no problem slugging survivors for 4 minutes to try for a 4k or even just slug the last survivor for fun while they go find the hatch to close before hooking. I've been slugged when killer knows it's my first hook while they wait for the other survivor to die on hook just to prevent me from attempting escape if they hooked me at same time as that survivor. I'll take that slugging after unhook if it means I might escape since killers will slug anyway to guarantee that kill as last survivor.
The killers want the guaranteed kill, that's it. They want the guaranteed kill because as you said it's upsetting to the killer if they don't get that guaranteed kill.
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You forgot about mettle of man. You can't wait for mettle of man.
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If survivor fails at attempted escape just have the second state go immediately to death as it does now. The only reason to keep second state going is for BP.
I can't take "survivors drag out game for 2 minutes on hook" seriously as an excuse when killers will slug survivors for longer and drag out their games. Remove killers ability to slug last survivor - either pick them up or lose the sacrifice - and I'll believe the killer complaints of having to wait a hook state for survivor to attempt escape.
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I'll be fine if survivors bleed out faster on the ground when they are the last survivor left in the trail. I don't think they should instantly die, because sometimes as killer the best play is to slug 1 survivor and go after the other survivor. Then if the killer kills one of the 2 survivors left, they should still have a chance to find and hook the last survivor.
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I dont understand how someone can ignore the 10 people that have told him this is how the game functioned originally and it was terrible
So rather then take their word for or the devs word since they changed it (and you clearly didn't play back then otherwise you'd understand it) youd rather argue for a concept you haven't experienced and meanwhile every that has is telling you it was terrible
God I love these forums
Post edited by EQWashu on7 -
if you building perks just for this specific situation, you shouldn’t be playing survivor side. You are already expecting to be sole survivor and are probably not a good teammate. Don’t play survivor, just play killer. I am a survivor main and I think the mechanic is fine, last survivor hooked should be an auto sacrifice.
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It is not a thing because it is absolutely beyond stupid to have to waste 60-120s waiting for them to die on hook or wasting another 60s to pick them back up before hooking and killing them anyways. If not getting an unhook chance as last survivor makes you unhappy, try getting better.
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As a Slippery Meat gamer, I disagree. Give me a chance and I will make a miracle happen. I prefer the magic.
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If your team is all dead…and you die on your first hook…
just means you were a horrible teammate and deserved to die anyway. This doesn’t apply directly to you, it applies to anyone in this position, hence the insta death is fine.
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Trust me, the thing about dragging the game out for the killer happened ALL the time. that's why the got rid of it. To be fair if there are still people in the match you can try to get off the hook, it's only if you're the last one there that the insta death happens.
The only thing I miss is that I played with a group that if we got a killer we didn't feel like facing, instead of the DC. we would all go to the basement and let the killer hook all 4 of us then we'd all let go of the struggle at the same time,
you can't do that anymore either.
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I don't get why you want this... the killer is literally gonna sit in front of the final hook anyway and down you as soon as you kobe. Then even more time is wasted as the killer decides to wait out ds (whether you have it or not) or pick you up even during the egc to waste more time. Overall its fine not being able to kobe on the first hook death hook and doesn't need to be a thing.
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This is a really long post for saying you want to be able to use Deliverance/DS to escape if your team abandons you. No, the game is over and you lost.
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It used to be that way. You had the option to escape being the last survivor.
Most times, killers would camp and see if you kobe or not. And no, not all respected the kobe lol.
I guess it promotes helping your teammates.
If you reach the end game and you haven't been hooked and the rest are on death hook, fmgo take a hook for them so at least 2 get out, no?
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Far more things to worry about in this game than this. Geez. Besides.... survivors would just cry and moan even more about camping. Because the game should be all about them.
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I forgot exactly when, but I DO remember in early builds of DBD, "Auto-Sacrifice" for the last survivor wasn't a thing.
The survivor could attempt escape and struggle the entire duration.
Was changed to how it works now to move the game along when the last survivor is hooked so it's over with quicker and people can move on to the next match/end the play session.
I will say while I think it's better for "health" of the game, it was a source of survival BP for survivors (struggling the entire duration) and BP for killers (Kick pallets, gens, spam your power if just using it gives you BP, etc.)
I think a good compromise is not auto-sacrificing on the first hook stage, but sacrificing on the second since at that point the match is over. When it triggers, give the survivor a flat amount of survival BP similar to if they struggled the entire duration.
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I think you can just give both sides a flat BP sum without the need for waiting until the second hook stage.
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With your logic here, you act like its just 0.00001%
But tbh, we have many many new perks.
Again, i just think most killer mains here, dont want their free kill go. I accept that.
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Again, i just think most killer mains here, dont want their free kill go
And I think most Survivor mains just want to delay Killers for 2 minutes out of spite. See how blanket statements don't do crap?
Everyone has said why it was changed. The actual reasoning behind the change. And you plug your ears and go 'Lalala! It's because Killer mains are selfish! LALALALA!'
You're wrong. That's it. The facts are in the thread, and it's not 'selfish Killer mains.'
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This dude wants to be able to create a "final girl" build where he can loop the killer / rescue survivors all game and then, when everyone escaped, unhook himself and get out too.
Yea no, it’s not going to happen, if you are the last survivor, you die. You don’t deserve to get out because it’s a team game when you have to cooperate to win. The game balance is, if you want a 4 man escape if you have to play as a team. That’s why circle of healing is so hated too, it makes every survivor independent, survivors strength should reside in team work, not selfish plays.
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i really dont, i only run breakdown as far as perks that could help me pull this off go. but there's at least a dozen of perks that could easily make it realistic to survive in that situation, and they're not unpopular either. it's dumb that the game says "nah just die you're not gonna make it anyway" when you literally could. i also help my team, getting to end game at 0 hooks is not unrealistic especially when some killers tend to tunnel one survivor at the time, and i never said i build specifically to get into that situation or that it happens to me often either.
oh my god are you not tired of saying the same thing over and over? that doesnt even make sense? giving survivor chance to unhook ≠ giving him both hook phases. as someone said, they could make the survivor attempt automatically then die (possibly after a skillcheck so they can still choose to suicide), otherwise as i suggested, just make the timer about 10 seconds with an unhook attempt removing 3. there. no bm, no game delay. are you gonna keep repeating it another 10 times just because you have ptsd from survivors doing this to you back in 2017 or what? jeez.
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And as already stated about 10 times they would just camp your body till you auto try and escape and if you do Kobe smack you back down and wait out DS it's really not that hard
As everyone has told you 100 times already this is how the game used to function and it was changed for a reason but ig you just keep ignoring that fact don't you
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the game used to function with normal hook states, making the survivor able to delay the game for 2 minutes, which is not what im proposing. DS is not the only perk in existence and there's countless variables that would make you able to survive. but fine, let's find yet another solution.
"Curtain's call" status effect: once only one survivor is left, both killer and survivor have all cooldowns on their skills halved (ds would be 30 seconds). also crawling, bleeding out, frequency of blood pools left on the ground, recovery speed, wiggling speed, killer carrying speed are all increased by 50%.
this would make the end game fast paced so that both killers and survivor can use everything up their sleeves faster and whoever wins, wins. it would also help in common situations where you're slugged but the killer cant find you, forcing both to wait for your bleeding out timer.
im sure if i could come up with this in 10 seconds an entire game balancing team at BHVR could make a more elegant solution that both avoids game stalling and bm, and at the same time doesn't rob the last survivor of his chance at escaping which is an already established game mechanic.
said mechanic was only removed to prevent BM, but band-aid fixes like these instead of actual solutions to problems are terrible design and why the fanbase basically hates BHVR. see bubba mask removal controversy (or literally any of the game balance changes.)
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Your solution seems very arbitrary and doesn't add anything to the game. What makes this a better system than what we have now?
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It was like this before, it was a waste of time for both the Killer and the Survivor on hook, lets not revert the change.
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How about we look at this from a "the good of the many vs the good of the one" standpoint?
During peak playtime hours in most regions, killer queues are instant whereas survivor queues are long, meaning there are too many survivors and not enough killers. The game needs one killer to entertain four survivors. If the final survivor doesn't immediately die on hook, that's wasting the killer's time with one survivor (who will most likely still die) when they could already be moving on to a new match with four survivors. That's four survivors sitting in a queue waiting for one survivor to hurry up and die.
Even if a whole bunch of people jump up and say, "Hey, we're cool with longer queue times if it gives us a slim tiny extra chance at escaping," it's unlikely BHVR will do it because players do quit playing over long queue times.
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You're just flat-out ignoring that getting off the hook when you're the final Survivor is almost useless.
Oh boy! You jumped off! Now you're slugged for 60 seconds in case you have DS!
But what if I am near an exit gate?
What Killer with even half a brain is going to hook you close to an exit gate, knowing you can get off the hook, and knowing DS is in 99% of all Survivor builds? This idea is a 1 in 100 chance of happening. Hell, I avoid hooking near gates when Survivors are still IN the match, to make it harder to save the person & escape.
But of course, you think the other 99 matches, where Survivors are hit and slugged for a minute, or they fail to get off the hook a die, are a small price to pay to get that ONE match where you escape.
No one else agrees. It's a waste of Killer time. It's a waste of Survivor time. And repeating it again and again and again will not get the devs to revert it. It's not happening. It's a bad idea. It's a waste of time.
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"Curtain's call" status effect: once only one survivor is left, both killer and survivor have all cooldowns on their skills halved (ds would be 30 seconds). also crawling, bleeding out, frequency of blood pools left on the ground, recovery speed, wiggling speed, killer carrying speed are all increased by 50%.
Or the match can just end. The Killer killed you. The end. You don't deserve ANOTHER second chance on top of 4 META second chance perks. Escape before you become the last one hooked. Not after.
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The funny thing is, your statement can also be said about your "facts".
Also, i think it always was like this. Dont think it was changed at all.
Oh and dont forget, opinions are opinions. Stop crying about mine. It stays the same. I just discuss in a FORUM which is for discussing.
Personally attacking is just blantly proofing that you cant discuss at all. Have a nice day!
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If i’m the last survivor alive on hook and I have no chance at escaping, I’d rather move on to the next game rather than waste my time or the killer.
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The funny thing is, your statement can also be said about your "facts".
My 'facts' are real facts. Not anything in a quote. Your comment is like saying "Your 'facts' about the sky being blue..." Putting it in quotes does not make the facts less true.
Also, i think it always was like this. Dont think it was changed at all.
Can you say that again? Not picking on you or anything. I legit don't understand what you're trying to say here, so I can't discuss it.
and dont forget, opinions are opinions. Stop crying about mine. It stays the same. I just discuss in a FORUM which is for discussing.
Opinions can be wrong. If I say 'My opinion is that the sky is actually pink!' does not mean I'm not wrong. So your opinion can be that Killers are being selfish, but you're wrong. The literal, cold, hard facts about why it was changed makes you wrong. Not 'facts'. But facts; Actual things you cannot change or invalidate with 'But that's my opinion!'
Post edited by EQWashu on1
