What is the rationale behind the wiggle buff?
I don't care about whether you think it's a small or irrelevant buff. I just want to know the reason why it was buffed at all.
Comments
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Incentive to play better and pay more attention, while simultaneously helping those with wrist/hand-related mobility issues.
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Accessibility. People with certain physical restrictions have difficulty doing the current wiggle mechanic. The new version makes it easier for everyone, reduces wear and tear of equipment, while keeping the stressful feel that they've wanted. The 1sexond reduction will only be felt with death squads and most people won't hit all the greats. Plus with how close hook's are it shouldn't be a problem until peeps have died on hooks
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It helps Survivors with accessibility issues.
You have an issue with that?
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becauee some console players analog sticks are messed up so it’s an accessibility feature but they should’ve made it optional and got rid of the great skill checks but that’ll never happen cause behavior
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Instead of deflecting by conflating the buff with the accessibility aim of the new system, simply answer the question, thanks. So far the closest thing to an actual answer has SleepyWillo saying it was only a buff to 'death squads'. We would question why the best players need a further buff.
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I think it's totally fair that they're making it more accessible. However, the point of making something more accessible does not mean you need to buff it. The point of this post was asking why they're buffing it. Making it more accessible is a different topic entirely.
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"WHAT IS THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE WIGGLE BUFF?"
That's what you asked.
The answer is it was changed because it helps people with accessibility concerns. Whether or not you like that answer is irrelevant. That's the answer.
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"Incentive to play better and pay more attention"
Literally in my answer before I mention accessability
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They could add the skill checks to wiggling without buffing the time to wiggle out in the process.
The great skill checks are just unnecessary.
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Great skill checks shortening wiggle time is beyond stupid. Good skill check option being there for accessibility is good. This is not rocket science.
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I don't really care.
1 second is a miniscule difference and the odds of someone hitting every Great Skill Check to wiggle off 1 second faster is slim. I don't care if it gets reverted and I don't care if it comes to Live.
Boil Over on the other hand...
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It's like 1 second. 🙄
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The entire point of the post was to talk about why they're buffing it, not why they're making it accessible. If you don't care then don't post on a topic. Just move on.
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He means the 1 second earlier escape. you bet it will override the killer after they enter the hook animation.
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Then let's buff hook states so each hook state is 1 second less.
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To be fair, it's hard to make any changes to the game that wouldn't directly benefit the most experienced and skillful players...
They needed to change the current system for reasons stated. But they wanted to maintain the "feel" of the stressful wiggle. DbD thinks stress=skillchecks and that's why we have what we have! I do think in tests it's just under 1sec reduction in time. If they didn't make the better skill checks more rewarding it wouldn't feel stressful. If they make all the skill checks difficult they hurt everyone else. The only other thing they could have done would be to make the great skill checks = default time and add 1sec for regular skill checks. But that again would be a nerf for everyone else...
TLDR: The game isn't balanced around either end. It's balanced for the middle
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6.25%, yes. I'm glad you are completely in support of every single one of these following changes then, as it's only "just" a small amount, unless you mean to tell me you're a hypocrite.
• Repair time increased from 80 to 85 seconds per gen
• Healing time increased from 16 to 17 seconds per health state
• Hook state timers reduced from 60 to 56.25 seconds per hook state
• Cleansing/blessing a totem is increased to 14 to 14.875 seconds
• Blessing a Hex totem is increased from 24 to 25.5 seconds
• Self-recovery (until the 95% default cap) increased from 30.4 seconds to 32.3 seconds
• Opening an Exit Gate increased from 20 seconds to 21.25 seconds
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The addition of skill checks is their attempt to make it more accessible. Nothing required them to include great skill checks which are an objective buff to wiggling, and this latter is the subject of the question. Maybe try reading the question before responding.
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To incentivize better play and to give Survivors a little mini-game.
The buff is essentially irrelevant, like you said. It means basically nothing.
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I'm glad this means you are completely in support of all of these changes as well then. Since these are all essentially irrelevant buffs that mean basically nothing as well (6.25%, exactly the same).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754678/#Comment_2754678
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6,25% wiggle time is not equal to 6,25% generator time.
You need to compare things that are comparable.
Why? Where does this add anything benefitcial to the game? Wiggled changes add more interaction and skill to the game. Where does a flat time reduction do such a thing?
To rewards a skillful player over an unskillful one. Mashing buttons was never an expression of skill. Hitting checks aka quick-time events is an option to do this. Think about quick-time events in Mortal Combat, God of War and other games.
It is not a buff to survivors per se, it is a buff to skillful survivors and there should be a difference between them...
I would like to add that a penalty for missing wiggle Skill Checks should also be in place. As when you miss one and can not even score a "good" skill-check your should not get any wiggle progress for 1 seconds or so...
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Would be 3.75 seconds to be the same proportion of a buff (6.25%).
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I admit I don't quite understandnit either. Obviously, the accessibility is good, but why they wanted to put a great skill check in there which reduces the time being carried is a bit odd.
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They're both free buffs for completely zero reason to what are currently balanced mechanics as is on live. Supporting one set of reasonless buffs to a balanced mechanic and not others is hypocritical.
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It doesn't add anything to game, just like buffing the wiggling time doesn't add anything to the game. I'm all for QoL changes, but not when QoL changes bring about unnecessary buffs.
Wiggling time should be consistent.
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It didn't need the time buff. Just remove that and have the basic skill check area and leave it at that.
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Okay, but then you would have to add a skill expression to the Killer side for each of those buff. You are kinda ignoring the skill-check component here...so you would have to add a skill component to your buff list too as small as it may be.
Please elaborate. You are just putting up points without any logic tying them together.
First off: Why should wiggle time be consistent? What is the reason behind this assumption?
Then you just say that it does not add anything to the game. Please tell me why you discard the thought that skill-checks do not add anything. In my opinion this adds a component of skill expression.
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Some of those things aren't really the same.
You will have far fewer instances of being able to wiggle for 15 seconds then repairing generators for example.
Wouldn't it make more sense to compare reducing killer actions too? For example pallet breaking speed from 2.6 to 2.43 seconds
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Those are skill expressive for the killer though.
The generator time buff rewards killers who are good at consistently pressuring people off generators.
The healing rewards killers who can injure consistently.
The hook state timer rewards killers that can hook well.
The cleansing/blessing time changes reward killers that can pressure gens better making it riskier to go for totems.
Self-recovery time change rewards killers that can down well.
Exit Gate time change rewards killers that can stop Exit Gate escape attempts well.
By your logic, these are all fine because they are near negligible in the hands of a worse killer that will not be able to take full advantage of these tiny minor buffs.
After all, they're only essentially irrelevant buffs that mean basically nothing.
Also, wiggling does not need to have skill expression. It should be a constant. It is balanced AS a constant.
But hey, if you're fine with vaulting having skill checks and only a great skillcheck is a fast vault and good is medium and failed is slow vault, then sure. Cause why not, let's also add skill expression to that, right?
Everything does not need great skill checks. Especially when they're balanced around the lack thereof.
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Skill checks have been introduced for more accessibility.
But the reduced wiggle time for great skill checks makes no sense. Survivors will wiggle out far more often than now. Especially in combination with Boil Out and/or hook offerings.
This could result in killers being forced to choose between gen slowdown perks or Iron Grip + Agitation in order to make it to a hook.
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People miss skill checks in 2022?
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It's not that unlikely.
You know timing, also you know where exactly it is. So it's just nowhere near as hard as gen skill check, where both things are random.
Maybe instead of 16s to 15s make it 16,5s to 15,5s. So on average you would have it same as before, but it can be slower/faster based on number of great skill checks.
Edit: btw timing is always same, so I bet I can make a macro for it...
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If you have that big problems to hit skill checks then you probably don't know what it is, but there is secret strategy called protection hits, which can be used to save teammates...
Sabo works too, but that's too advanced for you.
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I don't think those are comparable, but sure, I wouldn't really mind any of those.
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Most players won't make a macro.
BHVR apparently doesn't mind people cheating, so I doubt that would draw their attention either.
I haven't played with it, so I don't really know how it feels, but the likelihood of a Survivor hitting every Great is extremely low.
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Or just slugging everyone. More fun for everyone.
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Yeah, that also. I wonder what kind of threads we get more. Complaints about Boil Over or Slugging.
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Hitting Great skill check 100% grant -1sec wiggle, it doesnt really matter.
But New Boil over really needed a nerf with the new buff. 25% penalty for a drop is super abusable.
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Survivor sided development team. Stuff like this is why I laugh whenever anyone seriously tries to argue the devs are impartial and don't cater to one side. There was no actual reason to buff the mechanic. Also, stop getting upset that killers feel like the devs crap on them and are against them, when you release a patch with a wiggle mechanic buff at the same time you refuse to deal with COH, Dead hard, AND YOU NERF MULTIPLE KILLERS. Optics matter. Why did the skill checks need to never move? Why do the greats need to be on the middle rather than the edge, so you risk nothing by going for the greats? Why does it need to be easily macroable? Why does it need to reduce wiggle time at all? So many questions that people cannot answer at all and must deflect.
The people who go "omg it's just 1 second" should be ignored. They are just attempting to deflect and not actually argue in any honest capacity. The accessibility argument is also a complete fail because you don't need to buff the time it takes to get out of a hold if you change how wiggles work. That's absurd and also seems like intentional dishonesty to avoid addressing the issue which is: Why are they buffing survivors more?There is no actual defense for the buff and the lack of any legit argument for it that isn't dependent on fallacies or deflection, is a pretty good sign it shouldn't go through. But it will because it helps the side the devs care about. Yeah bro, let's buff survivors when queue times are double digit. Brilliant.
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Have you even see it?
Yes, it gets smaller with each hit, but resets whenever you miss and it won't get that smaller. Thing is it's always same. Every time. time between each skill check is same.
It's nowhere near as hard as great and gen skill check.
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You are not supposed to wiggle off the killer. Wiggle is there to prevent you going to the basement every down, but survivors always cry about it and expect to be able to escape anything a killer does so here we are. Buffed wiggle perks and a lower wiggle time.
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I dunno, to make it annoying for the Killer?
It's just small enough a change that as soon as it's in, it'll never, ever change because everyone will claim it makes no difference ever. But just big enough to remove any consistency from wiggling time. Result: players get a buff to deal with when the Survivors are consistent and unpredictability when they're not.
Just big enough to have an effect and be irritating.
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Just found it odd you are comparing a buff with simular nerfs instead of comparing it with simular buffs.
I honestly also don't really like the out of nowhere buff to wiggle speed.
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Why is this an issue? It's one second. I can't count the amount of times I have been hooked at 100% Wiggle because the killer begins the hook animation just as I reach that last 1%. In a way, you could say that makes this insignificant buff fair.
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You dodged the question as to why it was needed. I feel if we nerfed it by the same amount for literally no reason, survivors wouldn't be going "omg who cares."
Also I have had so so so many situations where an extra second would free me.
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I would have no problem if this was a buff that required as much skill.
However as you pointed out in your previous post there would have been mechanics to ensure that more skill was required. Especially the argument about the zones for "great" skill-checks hits home with me as this makes the wiggle timer a low risk, high reward mechanic. And these are problematic.
So yes the question is: Why are they buffing survivors?
I have no problem if there are reasons for this buff. However I do not see them. Different mechanic would be fine, different mechanic that rewards skill? Great, I take it.
But where is the punishment if you lack that skill?
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??? Because you’re supposed to be hooked in that situation, not wiggle free.
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I don´t like that everything is becoming a dumb skill check. Wiggle was completely fine.
You don´t need to press very quickly and a slow Stick Rotation is absolutely sufficient.
I can´t believe anyone damages a keyboard or a controller with this. And i don´t think that this is really a lot more accessible at all.
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Because it’s irritating as heck when you reach full wiggle progress, get 400 survival points, and still somehow manage to get vacuumed onto the hook. Hoping this solves that.
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That's not a bug. Hook animation started, which is intended to override it. This buff is stupid and baseless.
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