I don't think Oni is a top 5 character anymore
With boons (Mainly COH) I feel like my boy Kazan has unfortunately dropped a few placements and is now around mid to low A tier. This is mainly due to the fact that his snowball is now much harder to use with info perks being weaker due to Shadow Step, and COH being the abomination it is. Of course, his snowball can still never be underestimated, but the sloppy butcher + Lethal Pursuer bum-rush strat is no longer as effective as it used to be.
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Personally, atleast against good teams, he never was in the top 5.
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Me either. Top 5 IMO is Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Twins, and Artist, Hag, Bubba, Billy, and Huntress.....Yes all 5 are number 5 lol.
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He never was.
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Well the biggest problem he always had is that survivors can deny him his power for an extended amount of time by playing ultra safe and not giving him any easy hits. He is still pretty strong though, at least once he gets the ball rolling but boons definitely hurt him (COH in particular of course)
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I think the only killer that benefits from CoH is Plague. To use CoH, they have to cleanse, which gives Plague her power. So either they lose a perk slot by not using CoH, or they use CoH and have Plague's power up for most of the match. Against a good Plague, that is.
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I don't think he ever was tbh. Not that he's bad but he is potentially an M1 killer with no power for the beginning of the match and a decent survivor can make that happen for a long time.
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He never was top 5 imo
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He’s good with his power, but one will almost always struggle in the early game because he’s incredibly weak at the beginning, mix that with good survivors and he’s not very good (in higher ranks)
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I still think he's better than hillbilly, for what it's worth.
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I heavily disagree with this sentiment and here's why: Oni is a character that varies wildly in power based on who is using him, you have to be very picky with who you target first, and IMO lethal pursuer is what pushed him to top 5 material. A smart Oni can secure an early hit pretty much regardless of whatever circumstance he is in, and once even just one M1 is secured, the game can be over on certain maps. With Akitos crutch + Lion Fang you get the perfect amount of time to 4 man slug a team, and on maps like dead dawg, this made him extremely dangerous. I understand how you can think he is weak, but teams would have to play in a very meticulous way to deny a good Oni of his power. But at that point I doubt even a Good Nurse or Blight could deal with a team that coordinated and experienced.
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Well, his addons are better than Billy
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Honestly I have to agree, but not because of COH. While COH sucks especially for Oni he can still get his power through regular hits. The problem is him actually getting the initial hit.
Thanks to the latest maps new design it is even easier for survivors to play ultra safe and never allow Oni to get his power early on. And thanks to boon shadow step it is even harder to chase survivors in a map like RPD when you have no trail to follow and several safe pallets on a huge map.
If getting his power early on wasn't such a hassle, COH wouldn't matter all that much since his snowballing potential is good.
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Yeah I see what you mean, btw do you use lethal pursuer or not? Because if you do, with a little map knowledge you can quickly figure out who is in a dead zone. In the Eyrie I can get hits pretty consistently in the dead zones at the corners.
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Well Rin was always the Chad Yamaoka anyway so it’s fine.
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IMO being Top 5 or not was always kind of a debate. The first three are pretty much set with Nurse, Spirit and Blight.
4 and 5 can be done by multiple Killers, including Oni.
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Oni's got a bigger chest, clear counterplay, and is also far more attractive.
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- Who tf cares about chest size? Spirit's chest looks nicer.
- Spirit absolutely does too so that's just irrelevant. Try using your ears.
- No one is more attractive than Spirit, period.
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I guess we can agree to disagree here, but you can't deny getting chased by Oni in demon fury isn't the most adrenaline inducing thing you've ever experienced.
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I can agree with that, but sorry, no one's beating Spirit for me. She is my wife after all.
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My opinion could be altered since I am dire hearth Oni main but
I dont feel a big difference, good survivors could always heal very fast, CoH isnt a big difference their. Maps are actually a bigger factor than the perk, if you get a pallet heavy map like Blood lodge for example then you will suffer most likely.
If you know how to manage your blood then you are fine as Oni but well since 99% of the oni players are just ppl doing their dailys this ancient technique has been forgotten.
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I'm unclear what drops Kazan down. With CoH you are getting 40% of your power every hit AND with CoH all the blood is getting grouped into one area. So now you are losing vastly less blood orbs from them simply timing out, because you never find them in whatever random spot the survivor decided to heal. If everyone is full health, that just means you get more demon strike value. I would say, at worst, you need to manage your blood orbs and power a little more intuitively, but other than that hes really not that much worse off.
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exactly
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I could not disagree more. Oni without Blood Fury is a powerless M1 killer, to compensate for how strong Blood Fury is. In the past, a good Oni could spread pressure and keep everyone injured, constantly dropping blood so that he can get Blood Fury whenever he wants. You'd take one or two powerless chases at the start of the match in order to injure two people, then use your power to down a healthy survivor. The first person you injure would be forced to go search for a teammate to heal them up, dropping enough blood to sustain power usage, leading to more downs and more injured people if slugs were picked up.
But then CoH was released. Survivors no longer need to search for a person to heal, they just run to the boon and heal in 16 seconds max. No one stays injured, because there's practically a bloody PokeCenter on any map with a boon user. And even if you find where the survivors are healing within the boon, they heal so quickly that the blood on the ground ends up being a trivial amount. A 16 second heal drops 4x 2 blood orbs, for only 20% of your power. So if you're not getting your power from blood on the ground, you're spending a huge chunk of the game chasing as a powerless M1 killer, just desperately trying to get hits to fill your meter.
I mained Oni since his release, and absolutely loved how he played. The CoH was released, and playing him is an exercise in futility.
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I love boon totems on Oni, especially Circle of Healing. All the survivors go to it which means they're depositing all the blood in one spot. Make a mental note of where the totem is and collect blood when needed.
Boon totem more like blood bank lol lmao
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You mean the 20% of your power that you have to activate with blood orbs anyway after getting 2 full HP hits on survivors? Honestly with CoH the bulk of your power generation now comes from fresh hits, and any blood that IS on the map is in one location, making it vastly more reliable to find. I have not noticed a significant loss in uptime in Blood Fury.
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Firstly, usually add ons arent taken into consideration when ranking a killer, but even with those add ons its debatable where he would place. Even if CoH didnt exist, he would be the 7th/8th best killer in the game for me, behind Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Artist, Hag, Huntress and then Oni or Twins being in that 7th and 8th spot. Even with lethal, he has nothing against a good team. Other than maybe Hag and even a bigger maybe with Huntress, those characters don't struggle getting the first hit quickly, and all of them except Hag (again) can use lethal to a much bigger extent than what Oni can. All these killers above Oni deal with teams more efficiently and are less reliant on mistakes. Oni relies on mistakes to get the ball rolling. When he's in his power he is without a doubt extremely dangerous, but as I've stressed multiple times here, he has to work to get his power which can easily be denied by good survs.
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He never was. He is a "fair" killer that requires survivors to make mistakes. This means survivors call the shots and decide the outcome of the game. not the killer.
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Sorry to say this but this person got it.
How about the idea that survivors just got better.
More survivors understand that they have to play super safe against an Oni and not let him get the first hit to make him steamroll your team. On maps light Ormont (Mt Palletmont...) this is pretty easy and can be done even by a survivor like me.
Then longer Oni gets delayed with his power, then better for the survivors.
I agree that I do not feel Cycle of Healing that much. As most of my downs come from my power anyway this is not as much of an issue just as for Hillbilly or Cannibal...
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I think it's ridiculous to not take add-ons into consideration when ranking a killer, you should look at all aspects of them to determine their power. I do agree that before his first M1 he is definitely the worst killer, but once you get that first hit, you open Pandora's box and can literally end games with a single demon rush, even if you don't down everyone all that blood is going to add up and as long as you keep the survivors near your blood, you can guarantee wins. So yes, your absolutely right, playing safe against Oni makes him much weaker, but you can do the same exact thing against literally every other killer in the game aside from Nurse.
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Oni will always be top 5 if you play him well enough. Unfortunately thats pretty much impossible to play like that consistently
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Isn't that the point of tier list though? To show how powerful a character can be if you play them very well. because otherwise Nurse would not be at the top because not many people can play her that well.
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I stopped playing him and I just play easy mode version of him which is blight. As survivor, I can semi-consistently 1vs1 his entire ability. Oni ability is probably the most over-estimated killer power in the game. With some base-kit tweaks, he could be a lot stronger. Changing iridescent family crest does not move needle for him.
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You think Blight is easier? Personally I struggle more with him than with Nurse, although once you get the muscle memory and experience I see how it can be easier.
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Exactly my thoughts, people seem to forget that even if an Oni loses 4 gens before they get their first hit, he can still kill the entire team in a single demon fury.
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MMR kind of ruined him. He relies on a weak link to feed him M1 hits to get his power. Add maps like The Game and Cowshed and good luck getting a M1 hit against 4 equally skilled survivors.
He's still solid against the average team, just obsolete when Blight exists, especially when hug tech is basically Demon Dash.
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I don't have lethal :(
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And here we see concrete proof that opinions can in fact be incorrect.
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Good, Lethal is literally only good on Oni and Pinhead, but it's as addicting as shadowborn, use it responsibly and keep your children and loved ones far away from it.
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Your comment however, is absolutely correct, Oni is and will forever be the Chad Yamaoka.
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from my experience, it took me about 5 days to be average at him when he first came out which is around 15 games. Nurse, Deathslinger and Trickster are way harder mechanically intensive killers that need pinpoint precision on their abilities
Blight is 115% m/s killer that by default has normal m1 game unlike say nurse that moves at 96 m/s. Few tips if your struggling with Blight would be:
-Start by only using 2 dash tokens until your consistent at landing his blighted rush, Don't go for over ambitious dashes at start
-Attack with Blight rush early, Don't use his lunge as if your playing against dead hard.
-Don't use his power at loops at the start, Use his power between loops. After blight breaks pallets, Blight's movement speed is so fast that he often hits survivors before they make it to next pallet. His greatest strength is his ability to counter chaining tiles together and undermine survivor's sprint burst after a health state loss.
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Once you've learned his basics. Advance tips
-Start using 3, than 4, than 5 dashes more regularly in chases. Try to predict survivor's movement as you bounce.
-Learn hug tech, Recommend watching Otzdarva blight 50 killstreak. It shows various use cases for using blight's ability at loops, Hug tech is what separates mediocre blights from the best blights. Using blight's ability at loops is essential to mastering blight as it drastically lowers his chase time.
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In the end, Blight is all about timing. Once you know when and where to use his ability, Blight becomes more like playing musical instrument. He does not very much mechanic execution, Its bounce, bounce, hit. Flicking his camera angle into blighted rush(a lunge that slides along walls) is about as mechanical as he gets.
With Oni, Oni needs to understand tile strength in the game. Your m1 game is crucial important at Oni, more so than any other killer in the game. By the nature of his m2 being an instant down, Oni's power heavily excels in deadzones and having strong m1 game ensures you remove powerful resources from the map quickly to empower your power to clean up afterwards.
As previous post on thread, Oni has a lot of macro management in regards to survivors. Every m1 hit is 40% of your ability, so two m1 hits is 80% of your ability. You need to memorize the paths you walk as Oni as you create blood orb trails around the map in which you need remember so that you can fill remainder of his power gauge. Finding survivors quickly through process of eliminating is very important skill for Oni because he needs keep the momentum flowing. Every second your not in a chase as him is time that survivors can utilize to heal and finish remaining generators.
Getting to his power in timely efficient is only half the battle. Using his ability effectively is just as important. He has 45 second window in his ability. When Oni is his demon form, Survivors that are injured no longer drop blood orbs meaning that the longer Oni is in his ability, the more detrimental it is for him to get his next demon form. Demon form dash has 2.5 second start-up as opposed to blight's 0.5 second on hitting collision and unlike blight, Oni's looking/viewing angle while dashing is far more restricted. Experienced survivors can dead angle Oni's kambo making it far more difficulty to down them while Oni's demon strike requires surgical precision to curve properly around corners during fast speeds without hitting solid objects. Using demon form is race against time to do most damage as possible in shortest time span. This often results in slugging which forces Oni to manage risk vs reward in term of getting hook states vs disrupting survivor team.
As you can see, Oni is very deep and complex character to learn in order to optimize his kit. At the end of the day, why bother learning the complex hulk that is Oni when you can just press blight's ability every 15 seconds and move at ultra-fast speeds with similar levels of chase potential.
So my advice. Learn blight. Do not bother with Oni.
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Okay, thats cool and all but that doesn't mean anything related to CoH. Most killers can be countered, at least for awhile, with comp dropping every pallet. Thats not unique to Oni specifically.
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Not with COH in the game.
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But Oni is just more fun for me. Blight does not have that buff body and lacks in the "bonk"-department when he downs somebody. Sure, bonus points for the fancy cane but then again, where is Blights fearsome roar and his red glow while rushing? Overall Oni wins.
Now to be a bit serious. Your analysis is quit right. I can not speak for the Blight part, I trust you here, but on the Oni part you are mostly right. Oni can not be played without a descent M1 game. I made the mistake of giving Oni to a friend who never played Killer before and he got mangled because he could not even unlock Onis power...
I would like to add that you have to walk a fine line. You do not want to down your first survivor that quickly, you want to get your power. Even if that means to "wast" the chase. You have to make the survivor believe that you are "bad" and eat some pallets until you have your power. Then comes decision making: Leaving the injured survivor can be the right play, let them drop more blood and down somebody on a generator.
Slugging, snowballing, using Infectious Fright for information if you can make it...faking where you are dashing, flicking...Oni has it all.
Also yes, Onis Demon Strike without dashing is quit the thing. Your camera turns very high and you have to look down, while also messuring the lunge that comes with the strike. While this can get you a down, this can also get you spinned very easy. However there are not that many survivor that deal well with Oni. Most play against him so rarely that they lost much of their skill facing them...his rarity makes it easier...funny...
Blight is by the way no doubt stronger.
Still Oni is a very fun Killer to play and I would not discourage people who have a good M1 game to pick him up. Also he is a fun Killer to face because you can outplay his power and you can have enjoyable chases with him.
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I think in the current meta, Plague has probably taken the 5th slot.
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quite honestly doesnt matter if you gave survs a 200% coh when you can just 4 slug as oni in 20 seconds with infectious and good addons
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I do not think so. I still have tons of fun playing Oni and get my kill without playing very sweaty. However I have to slug 9/10 games to make something out of my power. Infectious Fright and BBQ are a must to snowball...
Oni is still very rewarding. One single mistake can turn the game around even with 5 generators finished. Survivors seem to have forgotten quit some of his counterplay and get cocky all the time. Oni is brutal in punishing those mistakes and exposing the weak link for blood is the way to go...
Just my personal opinion, nothing to make a definitive rating...
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Tier list's are often biased and subjective rendering them useless in the long run
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