The way BHVR nerfed CoH
Finally, CoH has been "nerfed". Or was it, really? now it takes an extra 4 seconds to self-heal, and extra 2 seconds to heal someone.
Yes, BHVR nerf to a perk that has been problematic since it was in beta was to add 4 seconds to it. No mention on cooldown to the survivor running it, no multi-floor limits, no token requirement, no permanent totem break after X uses, no. Just 4 seconds.
At this rate, I don't think BHVR will ever make DbD enjoyable for both sides. It sounds dramatic but it's clear they know little about what to do with the perks. I mean, they buffed Boil Over to add 25% wiggle bar after falling, did no one at BHVR stopped to think "Hmmm, maybe this is abusable in some maps, like in thompson house where survivors can go to the 2nd floor and prevent being hooked" clearly they don't.
I wonder what the future of Dbd will be when more devs take the chance at asym horror games.
Comments
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Nothing pleases you guys, does it.
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CoHs issue is letting any Joe Blow self heal.
I couldn't care less about the number changes
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If you expect for me to be pleased on an extra 4 seconds to a perk that lets the whole team heal when they want to, and across floors. Then no, nothing pleases me.
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Well, of course they didn't make any mention on the majority of those things, half of those are terrible ideas.
Regardless- nerfing the heal speed is definitely a good first step. Personally, I don't think it's far enough, but I respect wanting to keep an eye on performances while making small but impactful changes.
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if they nerfed noed by making the killer wait 4 seconds from activation to being able to down someone would that make it a good nerf?
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Reread the times involved. a 25% reduction adds a whopping 4 seconds or 2 seconds. That's not exactly a big nerf.
It's just more evidence of what BHVR does; sledgehammer-nerfs Killers while giving teeny-tiny slight maybe kind of nerfs but not really, to Survivors.
4 Seconds; whoo. That SURE fixes the problems with CoH! I mean, Survivors now have to watch out where they heal, because 2 seconds is...really jack-all. Really. It's not a matter of being 'pleased'. It's a matter of 'Once again, BHVR misses the mark and under-adjusts Survivor perks, like always.'
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I thought 6.25% was a lot though?
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I honestly don't think this will change its place in the meta in the slightest, and dealing with constant boon uptime is still going to be equally frustrating for the killer.
4 seconds doesn't change the fact that every survivor heals rapidly without aid, and it doesn't address any issues with the time dynamic of boons in general, or the ridiculous range they cover.
Personally if I reworked the perk, I'd rather they change it to remove self-healing, and instead show the aura of any injured survivors in range of the boon to all other survivors.
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If you're being deliberately obtuse; sure.
It's not the just AMOUNT, it's what it APPLIES TOO. 6.25% is allot for the Struggle Meter, which frequently hits 99% if someone sabos. There is almost never a time where the Struggle Meter did not hit at least 94%, which means that 1 second was a massive buff.
25% is NOT MUCH when it's 4 seconds against an infinite-self-care Boon.
But you could continue to make snide comments that miss the mark, sure. Easier than actually facing facts.
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It's...okay. At least it'll make it harder for a duo to literally heal mid chase.
It's more that this is doesn't do much to really fix the problems with CoH. The issue isn't just the numbers, it's that the entire intended counterplay to boons as a whole is ineffective.
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i doubt that nerf is going to change much tbh.
the healing speed increase should just be taken out entirely. Its strong enough to have a perk that lets everyone get a neverending medkit within the boons range, we dont need to further boost healing speed on top of that.
and if they are so scared because of perk tiers, make it so lvl 1 and 2 of the Perk heal you slower than normal. idk, make lvl 1 heal you at 50% the normal healing rate (equal to current selfcare, but for everyone and on a boon), lvl 2 at 75% the normal healing rate and lvl 3 at 100% of the normal healing rate (so if im not mistaken, that would be 24/20/16 seconds to heal)
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You missed the part that CoH wasn't even strong to begin with. They nerf the weak and buff the strong.
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I think the issue with COH is trying to nerf it without making it a SWF only perk, if you remove the self-care part, it would only help SWF, who can communicate "Heal me at the Boon."
Though nerfing boons to make kicking a boon destroy the totem would make sense.
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I...never said to remove the self-care? I'm just pointing out that a 2/4 second reduction in healing times is basically nothing. It's such an under-reach for the nerf that it looks like scraps thrown to shut Killers up instead of fixing the problem.
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If you think CoH isn't a strong perk then I dont know what to tell you
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So what the time difference now between nerfed CoH and self care? W/O any anything messing with the time like sloppy, mid kits, ect.
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25% is NOT MUCH when it's 4 seconds against an infinite-self-care Boon.
You said it around here.
Again, I do think that the issue addressed with COH is not the main issue, but at least they did something instead of leaving it for a couple years before giving it a buff (see dead hard)
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I pointed out it's still super fast and can be inifnitely re-applied, being a boon. Nowhere does that say self-care should be removed from it.
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I really doubt boil over is going to be released as it was in the ptb
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Ever tried to make use of it in soloQ?
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That would be useless
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COH didnt need nerfing, it needed changing.
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CoH is fundamentally broken because it always makes it efficient for a single survivor to heal themselves, which completely breaks the time dynamic of the game because there's always extra survivors progressing the game.
Even with the change it takes 2 more seconds to relight a boon and heal yourself than it does to get another survivor to heal you, and you always know where a totem is vs teammate positions being questionable outside of SWF. That's all assuming the killer snuffs the boon for EVERY single heal, if you get even one extra heal out of it the efficiency of the perk is downright nuts.
If it still provided a big boost in healing speed, but instead helped survivors find each other and heal up quickly, it would at least keep the game somewhat fair by still requiring multiple survivors to stop what they're doing to heal.
Self-care was nerfed years ago because having a perk to heal yourself at a more efficient rate than healing with others was ridiculous, now we just have a perk which still does that, but requires 1/4 of the perk slots for the whole team to have it.
You can't have both self-healing and healing speed increase on the same perk without it being fundamentally broken.
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In just one word "Pointless" just like what they plan to do with leatherface mask. It won't solve anything.
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Old CoH (100% healing speed buff)
8 seconds to heal others and 10 seconds with mangled
16 seconds to heal self and 20 with mangled
New CoH(75% healing speed buff)
9.14 seconds to heal others and 11.43 seconds with mangled
18.28 seconds to heal self and 22.86 seconds with mangled
Self care still is 32 seconds to heal self and 40 seconds mangled
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I do COH needs either a more significant nerf, or a complete rework, BUT:
I am glad they did acknowledge the problem
They acknowledged the problem by actually implementing a nerf into the game. I did not expect a quick action like that. This feels good.
I do still think they have to nerf it in a more significant way. I hope they know it, too.
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CoH has several problems.
-Double speed heals and medkit speed self-healing
-1 person's perk gives the entire team the equivalent of 2 bonus perks
-Killer does not have time to search for boon totems on top of everything else they need to do
-Totems can't be destroyed, only snuffed, so the perk can't be dealt with in any meaningful fashion other than tunneling the booner out
-Even when the killer knows where a boon is, the time to go and snuff it is often deleterious and costs a chase or a decisive chunk of a gen
-Applies in a very large radius through floors - several totems can cover essentially the whole map
-Healing speed bonus stacks with medkits for extremely fast heals, to the point where they can be used in chase
They addressed the first one by reducing it to 3/4 of the strength - which is still very, very powerful - and called it a day. CoH is still super problematic and while this helps, it's far from a fix to why the perk is so despised.
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Yes? It's god-tier. I would honestly, unironically rate it better than Kindred for when it comes to improving the solo queue experience. You don't have teammates wasting time looking for someone to heal them up or running around injured being prime killer bait; they just go to your boon and heal up at the soonest possibility. It makes 3-man 3-gen situations winnable, it increases ability to recover from situations where the team is falling apart, it makes resetting super fast, it makes survivors braver in endgame, it dramatically increases team efficiency. Sure, it doesn't make stupid players not stupid, but I've had a fantastic time using CoH in solo queue.
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Any seconds is crucial in this game. I think it's better than nothing at all.
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yeah coh is the fourth perk for you and the fifth one for your other teammates. 4 secs won't change anything.
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Still it ain’t like it’s 100% anymore.
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CoH shouldn't give any bonus speed to healing at all, it should merely create an aura which gives everyone inside of it access to Self-Care. Healing needs to take a lot longer otherwise killers will be forced to continue the tunneling just to deal with seemingly immortal survivors who recover far too quickly. No point in spreading pressure if said pressure gets undone this easily.
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The CoH nerf didnt fix the bits that make it overpowered. This is such a nothing change that they might as well have not changed it at all.
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It's not the kind of change I hoped, but it's still a good change. Sure, on a single heal you waste 5.3 seconds more (not 4 as OP said), but that time adds up if survivors heal a lot (and they do if CoH is present). Considering only the single instance is being a bit short sighted imo.
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4 seconds is a lot of time. That's 18 meters of movement for killers. So if you see someone heal with Nurses Calling, you can stop them before they finish. That's quite a big difference.
I mean, I agree that having boon area be based on map size(or perk tiers in general, like they said, they arent gonna get rid of 3 tiers, but they CAN dedicate perk tiers to mapsize), but dont make 4 seconds in this game seem like nothing.
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First off, NOED doesn't need a nerf. Second, if this was the nerf, it would make practically no difference. Sure, you wouldn't be able to down someone instantly if you were in a chase during those first 4 seconds, but you'd still be able to insta down them afterwards. It wouldn't be much of a nerf, just a slightly annoying delay.
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Normally that kind of nerf are fine when you do patch every 2 week but not when we know they do patch every 6 week to 12 week. This feel like an eternity in the gaming world
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They didn't do this to balance the perk. They did it to stop the killers from all leaving the game. CoH was a blatant repeat of MoM and is still a huge cashgrab. Release OP item, nerf it after everyone buys it. It's not OP by mistake.
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So any meaningful update like DELETING coh can be expected in 2024... cool
Small updates are fine in games that don't have 3+ months between updates. COH is bad and just shouldn't exist. The devs don't understand how detrimental healing is to killers and how much damages this single perk is doing to their game. This one stupid blunder of a perk has encouraged and enforced all the unfun aspects of this game.
Hit and run is dead. This forces killers to chase someone until they down them, (usually the weak link) and to target the weak link out asap so you can turn the game into a 3v1 for a chance.
Camping is on the rise because gens are going too fast thanks to everyone being self sufficient leading to more optimal gen rushing.
A good example is wraith. He was strong pre COH because he would just keep everyone injured and slowly chip away at survivor hook states while keeping them off generators by making them constantly heal each other. Now if you try to play like that, the survivor you hit is usually healed by the time you find someone else so why bother finding new survivors?
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Also add medkit with addons into equation
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Eh, I don't agree with that last statement. The perk does have simple and solid counterplay imho- the numbers were definitely too high. COH is the only super-hard meta Boon Perk.
The issue more so comes from Killer pressure imho- if you're struggling with pressure or are an average Killer on a big map, you can't really afford to go across the map to snuff a boon if you're hard for the win/struggling to even get a 2k. Just in the same way that you don't want to take a chase against the best survivor on a team if you're struggling with pressure and the Survivor is going to an area with a lot of strong structures.
COH just exasperated the same issue that has been around for a while, just like how MMR has exasperated the issue of 'Whoever sweats harder wins more'.
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This changes nothing about the root problem with COH: the fact it completely removes the ability to spread pressure, as long as they get unlimited self healing that will always be the main issue with the perk, it makes it impossible for killers like Legion, Oni, etc. This perk is broken at a fundamental level not just the fact you can heal in 4s.
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If the self heal is 75%, then I believe it will now take 8 seconds more than it used to, going up to 24 seconds.
I really don't want them to make CoH bad, it's like the only new survivor perk to shake up the meta. It would be a shame if that one perk would also fall out of the meta again. So them carefully nerfing CoH is a good thing in my opinion.
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Oh, no, of course not, don't be ridiculous.
An update like DELETING CoH can be expected never, because that's obviously not going to happen. It can be reigned in but they're not going to delete a perk from the game just because some people don't like it.
If you would sooner see it deleted than balanced, that's on you.
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You can't balance free team wide healing.
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I definitely think you could., it wouldn't be good however.
I think the ability to allow anyone to heal would usually come with the cost of everyone doing it inefficiently. Like worse than self care. I'd say it's balanced, but it sure as heck wouldn't sell.
But to me, this is just another mettle of man problem. A perk too good to exist without basically throwing to activate it.
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It changes nothing about what makes perk good which is that as long single boon totem is on the map, everyone has 5th perk and infinity med-kit. Other boon totems like shadowstep and expotencial have limited 24 meter area effectiveness. COH is global perk for survivors. Boons would be more balanced overall if they just worked only for user globally instead of affecting entire team. Don't think the number change will impact the perk that much.
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Of course you can. A pretty great start would be to put some kind of range requirement on it, or maybe make survivors spend almost the full equivalent of a heal to even set it up...
After that, you'd just have to make sure that it isn't too fast. Survivors healing without a medkit clearly wouldn't be broken if it took them five full minutes to complete that heal, so clearly it's the speed of the heal that matters. Make it slower, make it not stack as aggressively with things, and it'll be fine.
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It's just further proof that when it comes to Killer changes, they are not scared to throw down the hammer, but with survivor changes they have to be as careful as a pin needle in fear too big of a change will make their survivor base leave.
Though they don't seem to understand that it's the players willing to play Killer that is holding the whole franchise up.
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I'm a survivor main, I personally haven't had CoH be a problem at all when I play killer, but , just an idea, maybe after the killer cancels the boon, the survivor has to wait a minute and 30 seconds to maybe 2 minutes before they can make a new CoH totem, with the added 4 seconds 🤷🏼♂️
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