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The way BHVR nerfed CoH
Comments
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IDK, it seems much better to nerf in smaller amounts and see how things work rather than over-nerfing (which is never good). Usually when they over-nerf it takes forever for them to fix it, if ever.
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I don't think COH is as problematic as it is often being made out to, but I do think a nerf is in order and that this is not the right nerf. 75% means that now you will self-heal in ~18.3 seconds, rather than 16. Not very meaningful. And it still allows you to have ridiculously fast healing speeds with med-kits (9.14s, faster if specific med-kits, add-ons and other perks come into play), which can even enable you to heal mid-chase.
I think a more appropriate nerf would be to not have the boost apply to med-kit heals. So just on vanilla self-heals and altruistic heals. I also think 60% would be more reasonable, leading to 20-second self-heals and 10-second altruistic heals within COH's range.
Alternatively, they could actually go for mechanical changes to Boons, such as decreasing the range, or making snuffing them more impactful (snuffing could destroy the totem, or it could put the respective player's Boon perk(s) on cooldown, or it could make it impossible for the respective player to bless that respective totem again for the remainder of the trial). Hell, they could even make it so that Boon perks lose power every time they are relit, such as COH's healing boost being 100% on the first blessing, but losing 20% on every consecutive blessing. Or if they want to make this change more streamlined for all Boon perks, simply make it so that they lose like 4m range on every consecutive blessing.
I know they've said changes for Boons as a mechanic are not likely, but there's definitely reasonable things that could be done there.
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I wrote the entire comment with it and the forums ate it ;-;
Remind me to do it later
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A CoH boon is more usefull then the majority of soloQ teammates lmao.
Have YOU ever used it?
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Yes. I don't leave home without it because it's incredibly strong in solo queue. It allows me and my teammates to expediently take care of ourselves and each other without exchanging a single syllable of communication. It is an INSANELY strong solo queue perk.
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CoH covers around 15% of the map on huge stages like Mother's Dwelling.
It also covers around 75% of the map on small stages like Midwich or The Game.
It also provides essentially unbreakable heal zones due to the sheer length of time killers need to snuff it on multi-floor stages like RCPD.
The healing speed is definitely a huge problem. But the biggest problem is how its game impact varies so wildly from map to map in a way that no other perk does. There is no good reason why it works through multiple floors and no good reason why its radius doesn't change based on map size.
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You literally keep complaining about a perk of your opponents and on the same side you are defending perks of your own side. I absolutely cannot understand, why you guys complain so much about "Boon: Circle of Healing", since its nothing else but a limited range Healing Perk which you can get rid of it within a couple of seconds. The perk is absolutely fine and you can make survivors waste a lot of time if you do your job correctly. Blaming survivors for being OP just means, you are more or less just not confident about your role as a killer, because your role as killer doesn't mean automatically you get a kill easy peasy, but that's what you gonna expect - get rewarded for doing nothing. You have to fight for it, same as survivors have to fight for their escape and if you cannot handle it, then it is as it is. There's always opponents which you just cannot mess with, cause you either lack on experience or tactical knowledge, bad rng on map, spawn or whatsoever. Also, facing the fact, that SWFs are always stronger then regular solo queueing players is a very important thing what you gotta face over all. So this would terminate the chance for solo queueing players who rely on healing cause some of the killers just play like idiots and kill the gaming experience. I've met tons of weird players who just don't do their job probably or set their priorities completely wrong.
There's tons of perks for killers which rewards the killer for doing their role. You've been given [b]Scourged Hooks[/b] for a huge game slowdown. You've been given hex perks which gives you the ability of insta kills, moris, gen degression, aura reading, action slowdown and whatsoever. Like everything exists already; just because you are not using it, it doesn't means automatically that something has been changed to your favour so that you still don't have to use it. The game was for a very very very long time killer sided and seems to be finally fairly balanced. I know, that this community likes to cry a lot, is toxic and wants to get a nerf for something, what they cannot deal with. But it's a PvP game and if there's huge advantages given to you, in the same turn there should be given huge advantages to the survivor side as well. I've played for almost 1k hours as killer and in most instances I got ridt of the teams; unfortunately due to a lack of time cause of work, I was being unable to keep playing consistently and play compeitive. However, there's super strong players who know what to do and they can get rid easily of survivors, regardless how good the survivor teams are. You've to grow on every match and learn from doing. If Boon Totems are a problem to you, get rid asap or use hexes to counter blessing speed.
You guys rly should think about what you request and invest more time into the game, cause requesting a nerf for something what's totally fine is nothing else as admitting, that you are a bad player - from strategics and from your personality probably.
Thats absolutely no attack, further more it's just my honest opinon cause I'm tired of the crying from the community.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
McLean said he'd personally want to see the speed buff removed entirely and reduce the range to 16m so it's JUST a small range where people can self-heal, but of course he has no input anymore so it's not like his opinion will change much. I do think that would help solve the problem though. IMO letting the killer break the totem is the best, but whatever.
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I mean it's okay that they nerfed it and acknowledged there is a problem with it, but the nerf is pretty weak... I know there's a few seconds more and in a game where every second matters may seem in favour of killers, but the most of the time the difference won't even be noticable... There could've been so many options on how to nerf it:
1. Reduce the healing speed to like 50% would've been maybe suitable.
2. Remove self-healing aspect and let the healing speed be normal when someone else heals you.
3. Input a condition like: whoever lits the totem to make it Boon benefits from full healing speed and the other benefit from the value they put in the nerf(75% healing speed)
4. Maybe create some sort of tokens: you start with 0 tokens on COH, the healing speed of COH is 40% at the start of the match, each time you boon a totem gain a token: each token increases the healing speed while in COH range by 15%, up to a max of 4 tokens(100%healing speed)
There could have been sooo many methods but they chose the lazy one. And the thing with monitoring and if it's still strong we will extra nerf it, let's be honest, these are child stories, they will never touch the perk again not to displease the survivors...
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That would be a flat-out unusable perk. Imagine the worst aspects of self-care, but with a radius restriction -and- a 14+ second set-up time tacked on!
CoH needs to offer -something-, folks. Maybe it can be argued it should go down to +50%, but most of these suggestions want to put this perk on the level of Red Herring, Off the Record, Mettle of Man and most other survivor perks.
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What it definitely needs is to not be good if you don't have a healing perk, good if someone's healing you, and super good if you have a medkit. You can't have a healing perk that's good in a vacuum and buffs other healing and not expect it to be a problem.
One of those needs to give, and it should really be the part where one perk makes the whole team self-reliant.
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They still took the wrong way to fix this...
They should have just changed the radius of CoH down to 16m. This would have made it so that Killers find the Boon and the healing survivor with more ease as well as fix the issue of multi-level maps.
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Why? The game -isn't- a vacuum. You can't just look at the output without also considering the range restriction and time it takes to bless a totem, plus the possible counterplay of snuffing the boon. Removing the heal speed boost entirely would make it borderline useless because it would take way, WAY too much time to get any value out of it. 46 seconds base, not counting the time taken to find the totem or move into range.
And if you remove the self-care, it'd only work for swiffers.
I agree with @Gwinty : CoH should just get a range reduction. Boons should have individualised ranges, with the smallest range perks overruling the longest range perks in case of boon stacking.
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No, no, I mean you can't have a perk that's already good in a total vacuum with all its downsides applied, and then gets even better once its interactions with everything else in the game are factored in.
Which is where CoH stands: on its own it's good. Really good. And then it makes things that are themselves decent or good even better.
The one-perk-equals-teamwide-self-reliance is why it's meta, but it's also a terrible meta shift for how much it shuts off and penalises. If you could nerf it so that it doesn't make every solo player able to reset as soon as the Killer has to look away, regardless of what anyone else is doing, but still good, that'd be great. But it's kind of deleterious to a lot of Killers' playstyles and game balance in general, so if it has to die to resolve that... eh.
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The radius got already nerfed. So why nerfing it again, just cause you've a problem with it? That just makes no sense. I'm absolutely not a fan of selfish ppl. You want to take something relevant from players, just cause you cannot deal with it. The perk as it's own is fine as it is rn. There's a lot of unfair things on killer side which has to be fixed too, if you gonna face it from that side. There's a lot of awesome killers who just shreds other SWF teams while they use CoH. This sour tears are so annoying...
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First of all you assume I am selfish. While you are correct, you made that assumption on the wrong premise. This is just a quick ad personam and already shows where you are going: Accusations without any prove given.
My purposed change to Cycle of Healing was to change it down to 16m. I have, time and time again argued that Boon: Exponential should go up to 32 meters. This is part of my agenda to make Boon radii and Exhaustion perks more variable with their values to adjust them better. Also note that I never called for a decrease of the healing value.
You also assume that I can not deal with this based on no reason at all. Sorry, but you never saw me playing and I certainly did not say that I can not deal with a Cycle of Healing. However "being able to deal with something" and something being to strong are two different points.
Survivors can deal with Hex: No one escapes Death. It is too strong non the less.
Next bring up "but what about Killers unfair things". This is not the topic. We are talking about Cycle of Healing. Do not try "us vs them" with me.
Sour tears where only shed about the amount of fallacies in your comment.
Try better next time.
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Try not to get frustrated by it. The unfortunate reality is that BHVR just aren’t very good at balancing, and given some of their comments during livestreams, it’s doubtful this will ever change.
Its always good to give feedback but try not to get too invested and hopeful. It’s best to just take DBD for what it is and enjoy the fantasy of what it could be.
😭🥲
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Requesting a nerf is simply selfish, cause you obviously have a problem to deal with it, what means you want it to be changed to your advantage and to the disadvantage of survivors who actually needs it. There's not only high end SWF squads outside and there's a lot of awesome killers as well around playing the game. There's also players outside who queue solo and don't have the advantage to communicate or whatsoever. However, nerfing an important perk for survivors is just so sensitive that it kinda makes the perk useless. You've a lot of possibilities to get rid of CoH besides complaining on it in the forum. You could run a build which drastically slows down the blessing speed by implementing hexes or use instead Insta down hexes or perks, what makes the Boon CoH obsolete.
Bringing up another topic also fits into this topic, because some killers cannot deal with this perk, while there's killers who can deal with it. There's a lot of rng in this game as well, which either intensifies the use of CoH or makes it absolutely obsolete and on some maps it's just fair balanced. Exponential is probably a Boon which is more likely played in SWFs and mostly requires at least 2 players for it. One who goes down and the other who occupies the killer until the first person gets up. So that makes Boon Exponential pretty much obsolete if you have no opportunity to play it effectively.
I actually don't need to see you playing when I see you complaining about something which is totally fine, just not by you and some other killers who cannot let have survivors a decent perk while as a killer you've a lot of strong meta perks giving you a huge advantage already. You just gotta use your opportunities tho.
Good argument. We can deal with NOED, while you cannot deal with CoH. 😉 - We had to learn to deal with it tho.
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I'm basically only frustrated about one thing which is not related to BHVR at all, more likely to the player base. Survivors got nerfed for ages. We always want to face the fact of soloqueueing players, cause SWF is a different story. Whenever nerfs happened in the game, it most likely affected survivors. Finally they put a reasonable perk and ppl start to argue and cry again about this perk, even when it is ok as it is, but not facing the quantity on available very strong killer perks, some killers and those add ons. Solo queue is tough so there must be something reasonable for solo players. If I cannot rely on my team mates cause they are too scared to heal me or they gotta throw the game cause they think that teabagging is more important - ok! 🙉
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Bring a med-kit or one of the many self heal perks.
The next step is to play killer long enough to get decent teams that heal the nanosecond you are not chasing them while the team hyper focus gens and don't waste time saving until they need to and attempt to apply pressure.
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Med Kits are limited and I'm running out quite often on my P3 survivors, Self Care is most likely useless, unless in EGC eventually. And yea, I'm aware of it. But that also works without CoH.
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Thats the point. Self healing should be limited. It's way to strong and was already a problem before COH but now it has reached stupid levels with a competent boon user and team.
Sure, you can just go and snuff it.. The problem is that any decent survivor will put it in a really out of the way place that will waste way to much of your time vs one survivor out of 4 taking seconds to set it up again. A killer snuffing a boon in the back corner of the map is not progressing their objective, while one survivor setting it back up does not stop the other 3 from doing gens.
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How is allowing the Killer to break instead of snuffing the totem or not allowing CoH stack with Medkits a bad idea.....
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Not when we are talking about 4 survivors vs 1 Killer.....the only thing that seconds matter is to Killer.
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Ok, but what exactly is the problem here? You are talking about a SWF as it seems like and this is unfortunately a different thing. We all know, that SWFs are overpowered, regardless if they bring CoH or not. If you aren't experienced enough to deal with it, you just cannot do much anyways. You guys should also think about casual players and the mid tier and not only the high end ranking. I either meet teams in my range or teams - thanks to the SSBM - absolutely out of my range who destroy me while I play on a killer with bad perks, cause I don't wanna spend since Myers is LVL50. But they would also destroy me without CoH. So that rly doesn't matter too much to me.
It's supposed to be an asymmetric PvP game. Of course you are fighting 4 survivors and you need to outplay them smartly. Thats not happening always. But I put the blame on BHVR for changing the game into a sweating contest by changing the Ranking System to SSBM which is absolutely poop, but whatsoever.
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Some people just want CoH to be gutted because they don't like it.
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Yea but they've to deal with it. Survivors also have to deal with NOED and some other super annoying Perks and "special strategies" aka Tunnelling & Facecamping. And then on top, some ppl rly still cry about Circle of Healing. Some parts of this community are absolutely ridicilous.
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Sadly the asymmetric part of the game was the Killer was supposed to be the power role and the survivors were the weaker role. BHVR has somehow made the 4 survivors the power role and the Killer the weaker role.
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@Rizzo90 I don't care.
I'm tired of plebs who are selfish and wants to run the game in easy mode, while there's a way to have a balanced game. Guess I expressed that a bit too much.
Skill < Complainingis what's going on for years now.Unfortunately most players don't understand the matter of game health. Developing is a hard process. Winning and losing isn't all what matters, unlike for some ppl who are sweating every single drop of water just to make sure that either the Killer/Survivors have an insane hard time. There's enough proof and evidence from YouTubers and Twitchers, that games are winnable for Killers even with Circle of Healing. Killers have enough possibilities to counter the Survivors. As a Killer you've to rely on yourself. As Survivors you've to rely on your entire team. If you are unable to beat a team, then probably you would've not been able to beat this team anyways and that's just a bad excuse to flag Circle of Healing for it.
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That's actually wrong. At 1.0.0 and for a few game versions, Killers were really disadvantaged cause the game was fresh and everything was new, so things had to get settled up and balancing was changed over 6 yrs. But then over time until now, Killers were in majority in huge advantage until recent update, which now kinda makes it even.
You probably understood the meaning of
"Asymmetric 4v1 PvP Game"wrong, because "Survivors" who are only strong together by cooperation, team play, tricking the killer and looping. While the Killer relies on strong perks, add ons, map design and most importantly their brain.0 -
This is a stupid statement.
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Are people really this clueless? Tunnelling and camping have soared after the release of this stupid perk for a reason. Killers have nothing left because injuring and leaving a survivor is pure wasted time thanks to this abomination of a perk.
Pre COH- hit a survivor and peel off to hit someone on a gen next to you. That survivor now needs to use up their medkit or force someone off a gen to heal them giving the killer more time. During this time you as a killer have the opportunity to find that survivor out of position while injured giving you an easy down creating more pressure.
Post COH- You hit a survivor and peel off to hit someone on a gen next to you. That survivor runs to the edge of COH and heals... while the rest of the team churns away at the gens uninterrupted.
As fot your WAAA solo players argument. This perk has single handedly won me games in solo that we should not have. As long as SWF is in the game and the problems it causes are ignored, then you can't release perks that super buff them. Hell i even ask if anyone is using COH so i know if i need to bother running it or i can take some other second chance as survivor because you only need it to be run by a single person. (just don't play Mikaela because she will be hard tunnelled out to remove the boon)
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They acknowledge it in a way a condescending prick would acknowledge something say everything's fine with it not even talk about the actual problems with it and do something that does little to nothing to fix it. But, I guess we should just accept it and buy the ring dlc maybe they might add something to countermeasure boons even though I doubt it.
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And? They nuked 'tunneling' perks into the ground for killers. Why can survivors maximize gen efficiency/healing and be rewarded while literally any killer time efficiency Strat is nerfed into the grounds/extreme counters via perks/addons are provided for?
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Cause the game is biased and no one wants to admit it on the dev team.
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nothings ever gonna change the survivor meta I don't think.
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So I did the math according to the charge point system which they use for healing and repairing gens.....
Needless to say, all the nerf did was make you heal 1.15 seconds more compared to pre-nerfed CoH....
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Because those 'time efficient strats' are both terrible for gameplay and really overpowered. It's way harder for survivors to interfere with killer playability than vice versa.
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K. maybe see how it effects the game before your complain sheesh
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People are outraged because it only adds 4s to self heal...dont want to see when they learn it actually adds only 2,29s to selfheal and 1,14s to heal others after this nerf
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This is bait right, cause no one can possibly be so out of touch to say that CoH is weak right?
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Meeep. You are absolutely wrong. The amount of tunnelling and camping in this game was always that crazy but increased drastically with the release of the SBMM, because Killers & Survivors both wants to climb to Iridescent I asap. That's an experience report of asking 4 of my friends playing Dead by Daylight, including myself, none of them used CoH either. So, I guess this is just a speculation and nothing more but that. But indeed, it would be a smart tactic to tunnel out a player who brings CoH, which is ok, since BHVR confirmed it to be a legitimate tactic. Killers didn't do anything else but that when survivors brought a key either. The totem will be gone once the player is killed. That also was a hidden nerf, cause there was a phase which allowed the totem to stay alive even tho the responsible survivor died.
Obviously no creator would admit it, cause if you watch the Steam statistics, you can watch an estimate lose of 60k players within a half year and a gain of around 280 players. This makes in total around 40-50k active players on peak times rn. Also gotta admit, a huge problem is the cheater invasion and BHVR not giving players the option to report a player fast and quickly with evidence.
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I mean CoH did. But that's pretty much it. So I would hope to see this perk not be overnerfed where it's not worth picking anymore compared to other meta perks.
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Try using it in soloQ then tell me. If you get destroyed by 4man's on comms, CoH is not to blame.
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I'm usually quite sympathetic to the perspectives of individuals that might conflict with the dominant narrative, but in this instance I have to say that I do think you're still pretty wrong. I have used Circle of Healing in SoloQ, both bringing it myself and using it after a teammate slapped it down, and even a potato survivor like me got pretty insane value out of it.
The perk is strong. This one isn't a SWF vs SoloQ thing, it's strong for everyone- stronger for SWF, obviously, but most things are. It's still a very, very potent perk to bring in SoloQ, especially when you bring other healing perks/items along with it.
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Well cheaters suck but tbh I actually blame the devs more than the cheaters because instead of working on that they released it on the epic store for free making even more cheaters spawn in the player base.
And I agree right now reporting is a joke along with people spam reporting ######### that doesn't need reporting the fact that the report system has no way of explaining the problem on console and even though they have servers no real way of an ingame mechanic to give people evidence of cheating,hacking and such shows the report system to be a complete joke.
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I haven't played since September so no, and that's a problem is that soloQ is weak not CoH. Plus i've seen plenty of people tell me how actually busted even in soloQ so ill believe their words more then joe shmo
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Yeah, that was a weird decision.
I have never seen this perk in-game for obvious reasons, but even I can tell that this nerf was not enough, and definitely the wrong approach.
I still think they should have made it like Hexes, where if you remove it once it is permanently gone. If that rule applies to killers, it should apply to Survivors too.
But then again, that might be just me.
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Oh, no; I agree as well. Boons are basically 'Screw You, Killers. Here's your toy but BETTER!' when they should work the same.
And with this nerf, the devs have all buy said 'We will make Survivors happy before real balance'. It was a big SOUNDING nerf (a whole 25% is ALLOT, guys!) but they knew it was literally NOTHING to actually change the perk, because Survivors come first. They were hoping Killers were too stupid to notice.
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Given that this changes the heal times by up to nearly 2 seconds, this "nerf" is practically nothing so yeah?
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